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Behringer Mini model D? A good idea? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 31st March 2017
  #2191
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I've been using a zoom g3x when it's not on guitar duty. I think Superbooth might be a bit soon for the behringer d. So with that in mind I would guess either deepmind effects rack or a drum machine. The drum machine idea has been floating around for some time now but it's been very quiet on that front lately. However I have my suspicions.
Old 31st March 2017
  #2192
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I asked this way earlier in the the thread and it got skipped over. Without using a midi or USB midi controller, so using CV control only, will there be a way to set the mod amount? The reissue has its own mod wheel, the mockup photos don't seem to have a mod wheel or mod knob. And what if your midi controller is from Roland where your mod amount has to return to zero when not touching it?
Old 31st March 2017
  #2193
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
I asked this way earlier in the the thread and it got skipped over. Without using a midi or USB midi controller, so using CV control only, will there be a way to set the mod amount? The reissue has its own mod wheel, the mockup photos don't seem to have a mod wheel or mod knob. And what if your midi controller is from Roland where your mod amount has to return to zero when not touching it?
You mean like an input trim pot? Sorry not sure what you mean about the roland controller
Old 31st March 2017
  #2194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt pinchin View Post
You mean like an input trim pot? Sorry not sure what you mean about the roland controller
Roland keyboards and controllers have a little stick that moves right and left for pitch, and forward and back for mod amount. When you let go of the stick, the pitch and mod amount return to zero pitch bend and zero mod amount. It's been a horrible design decision from Roland. Jdxa seems to have actual wheels.

But what I'm referring to is the modulation amount on the behringer D. On the moog minimoog, it is set by the mod wheel only. No other way to invoke the LFOs/modulation. And it's a continuous control that dials in the amount of modulation to the synth.
Old 31st March 2017
  #2195
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Sound bite of the new prototype please Uli...!!
Old 31st March 2017
  #2196
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
Roland keyboards and controllers have a little stick that moves right and left for pitch, and forward and back for mod amount. When you let go of the stick, the pitch and mod amount return to zero pitch bend and zero mod amount. It's been a horrible design decision from Roland. Jdxa seems to have actual wheels.

But what I'm referring to is the modulation amount on the behringer D. On the moog minimoog, it is set by the mod wheel only. No other way to invoke the LFOs/modulation. And it's a continuous control that dials in the amount of modulation to the synth.
Ah I get you. Korg have the same style of joystick controller. The moog reissue has trim pots on the CV in so if you are using external controls you can trim the max depth to suit. Dunno how you'd trim it if using midi though. Maybe if behringer could add trim pots to all their CV ins that would help. Sometimes when in the middle of a performance trying to do just a little modulation is tricky.
Old 31st March 2017
  #2197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
It is the simplest sounds that are most often used for making music.
A Minimoog is a simple synth, the thing that makes it a king is how great it sounds with these simple sounds.
problem is they don't show up the differences too well.
Old 31st March 2017
  #2198
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Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

Allow me to provide you with an update.
The Model D prototype is now up and running and all functions seem to be working well.

Next week our system engineer will go through a rigorous testing procedure and meticulously compare every stage with the MiniMoog reference sample.

Next is the MIDI software implementation which will take around 1-2 weeks.

We expect the metal, plastic and wood sample parts to come in within the next two weeks and provided all goes well, we should be able to showcase a complete working sample by middle of April.

Please bear in mind that we are still many months away from shipping this synth as metal and plastic tooling has not yet started.
We have also not done any EMC and safety testing which can possible delay the project; depending on the test result we might need another board spin.

Thanks for the great input many of you have provided.

Uli
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Mini model D? A good idea?-model-d-1.jpg   Behringer Mini model D? A good idea?-model-d-2.jpg  

Last edited by Uli Behringer; 31st March 2017 at 11:22 AM..
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2199
Gear Addict
Looking good
Old 31st March 2017
  #2200
Gear Addict
@uli So, I've just noticed the calibration trim pots. Will these be accessible without opening up the unit should it require calibration. As it ages surely it will need calibrating at some point.
Old 31st March 2017
  #2201
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goony's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Great progress Uli, its gonna be a long few weeks til hear it lol..
Old 31st March 2017
  #2202
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Allow me to provide you with an update.
The Model D prototype is now up and running and all functions seem to be working well.

Next week our system engineer will go through a rigorous testing procedure and meticulously compare every stage with the MiniMoog reference sample.

Next is the MIDI software implementation which will take around 1-2 weeks.

We expect the metal, plastic and wood sample parts to come in within the next two weeks and provided all goes well, we should be able to showcase a complete working sample by middle of April.

Please bear in mind that we are still many months away from shipping this synth as metal and plastic tooling has not yet started.
We have also not done any EMC and safety testing which can possible delay the project; depending on the test result we might need another board spin which will further delay the project.

Uli
This is really exciting! We need to be patient, though, he does say many months.
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2203
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acealive's Avatar
4:3 Computerscreen
No wonder the Editor for Deepmind 12 has problems with my 21:9 screen if the developers only have such old tech.

j/k

awesome to see how fast this is progressing !
Old 31st March 2017
  #2204
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they could sell it at Walmart.
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2205
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Reginator's Avatar
It's really impressive to see how quickly a project can evolve from a discussion on a forum to a working prototype.

That engineering team is on fire - amazing!!
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acealive View Post
4:3 Computerscreen
No wonder the Editor for Deepmind 12 has problems with my 21:9 screen if the developers only have such old tech.

j/k

awesome to see how fast this is progressing !
Bet that 4:3 screen is CRT too
Old 31st March 2017
  #2207
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I see you've also remembered to add the glide switch this time which wasn't there on the original rendering
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2208
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginator View Post
It's really impressive to see how quickly a project can evolve from a discussion on a forum to a working prototype.

That engineering team is on fire - amazing!!
I think I said something similar yesterday, where are the smart alec's now..

Looking at that board there won't be any loose wonky knobs there, solid as.
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I think I said something similar yesterday, where are the smart alec's now..

Looking at that board there won't be any loose wonky knobs there, solid as.
I'll take over the smart alecing.

How do you control the amount of lfo or 3rd osc modulation apart from a mod wheel midi message?
Old 31st March 2017
  #2210
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Reginator's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I think I said something similar yesterday, where are the smart alec's now..
Howdy fiddlestickz!

I saw those comments yesterday and felt bad about it.

For folks not in the know, reverse engineering is not as simple as it sounds because it does require engineering. Just ask the folks remaking the OB-X, CS-80, ARP 2600...even ask Korg what went into bringing back the MS-20 and Odyssey...or ask Moog about the Model D reissue.
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2211
@Uli Behringer

get ready to break all your previous sales records when this comes out.
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2212
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
sold my sub37 and will get 2 of Uli's D racks (at least) instead

Where can I preorder please?
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginator View Post
Howdy fiddlestickz!

I saw those comments yesterday and felt bad about it.

For folks not in the know, reverse engineering is not as simple as it sounds because it does require engineering. Just ask the folks remaking the OB-X, CS-80, ARP 2600...even ask Korg what went into bringing back the MS-20 and Odyssey...or ask Moog about the Model D reissue.
That's like saying "Playing in a Prince tribute band is not as simple as it sounds, because it does require knowing how to play instruments."

It's assumed that it would take an engineer to reverse engineer something.

That's a whole hell of a lot different than coming up with something from scratch, having no idea of the utility of it or what the sales will be, or how to market it or manufacture it, (aka Robert Moog).

I mean, it's one thing to rave about the MSRP, but to rave about the speed at which this is happening? They're copying a Minimoog.

I'm sure it took engineers to "reverse engineer" their Mackie, Aphex, Boss etc products as well...
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2214
Gear Maniac
 
Reginator's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
That's like saying "Playing in a Prince tribute band is not as simple as it sounds, because it does require knowing how to play instruments."

It's assumed that it would take an engineer to reverse engineer something.

That's a whole hell of a lot different than coming up with something from scratch, having no idea of the utility of it or what the sales will be, or how to market it or manufacture it, (aka Robert Moog).

I mean, it's one thing to rave about the MSRP, but to rave about the speed at which this is happening? They're copying a Minimoog.

I'm sure it took engineers to "reverse engineer" their Mackie, Aphex, Boss etc products as well...
I won't get into it with you. We perceive things differently and I'll leave it at that.
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2215
Here for the gear
 

It's a pure copy of et Moog's Minimoog reissue with the same new functionality. It's a shame !
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
Yes it's amazing how quick they can reverse engineer (i.e. copy) a pre-existing design.
It's not a design they're using for reverse engineering, it's a physical example. They analyze and measure the actual analog signals that are actually responsible for the sound that is output, and then use that data to create an entirely different design. Each new design is tested in that manner and then fine-tuned until the measurements produce identical data.
Old 31st March 2017
  #2217
Any chance of producing a keyboard version?
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
That's like saying "Playing in a Prince tribute band is not as simple as it sounds, because it does require knowing how to play instruments."

It's assumed that it would take an engineer to reverse engineer something.

That's a whole hell of a lot different than coming up with something from scratch, having no idea of the utility of it or what the sales will be, or how to market it or manufacture it, (aka Robert Moog).

I mean, it's one thing to rave about the MSRP, but to rave about the speed at which this is happening? They're copying a Minimoog.

I'm sure it took engineers to "reverse engineer" their Mackie, Aphex, Boss etc products as well...
Indeed this is true..... So your point is ?......... Haven't you gone on and on about this in pretty much all Behringer synth related threads ?...... I take it you won't be buying one then ?
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2219
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzrichie View Post
It's a pure copy of et Moog's Minimoog reissue with the same new functionality. It's a shame !
No its not. Its much smaller, adapted to Eurorack compatible powers and connections. It also got CV inputs the reissue doesnt have.

New Moog's Mother 32 is a much simpler design in comparison. So is the Model D reissue.

Talking things down whilst overlooking obvious differences does only show pre-judice, not knowledge.
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Old 31st March 2017
  #2220
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginator View Post
Howdy fiddlestickz!

I saw those comments yesterday and felt bad about it.

For folks not in the know, reverse engineering is not as simple as it sounds because it does require engineering. Just ask the folks remaking the OB-X, CS-80, ARP 2600...even ask Korg what went into bringing back the MS-20 and Odyssey...or ask Moog about the Model D reissue.
From the videos when Moog introduced the Emerson Moog Modular System, there was a lot of work involved in that project too, even though they had the schematics and had built or modified the modules in his system. That's not a project I'd want to undertake. I have a feeling Behringer won't, either.
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