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Deepmind 12 inside photos Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 4th February 2017
  #1
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Thread Starter
Deepmind 12 inside photos

Here are several pictures of the inside of the DM12. You think this will void the warranty?
Attached Thumbnails
Deepmind 12 inside photos-fullvoiceboard.jpg   Deepmind 12 inside photos-right.jpg   Deepmind 12 inside photos-left.jpg   Deepmind 12 inside photos-processor-dsp.jpg   Deepmind 12 inside photos-voiceboardclose.jpg  

Deepmind 12 inside photos-powersupply.jpg  
Old 4th February 2017
  #2
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

It's amazing that they can sell them so cheap.
Old 4th February 2017
  #3
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The Competitors Product!
Old 5th February 2017
  #4
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Discrete circuitry?

Last edited by projectwoofer; 5th February 2017 at 08:16 AM.. Reason: Typo
Old 5th February 2017
  #5
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Compressor's Avatar
Thank you very much tonykara! Was really interested to see what's inside.
Old 5th February 2017
  #6
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Tons of Coolaudio LM13700 clones for OTA filters and VCAs. Some chunky diodes on that voice board, two per voice? Wonder what they're for? Looks like one big processor generating all the digital stuff (DCO frequencies, modulation) rather than smaller processors per voice (like DSI and the Minilogue?)

Quite a lot to stuff into a desktop version?
Old 5th February 2017
  #7
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Thread Starter
Yeah, it looks like the SHARC has effects duty and CV calculation duty (since it appears connected to the 8 channel DAC). The XMOS part is a 16 core ARM processor doing all the UI: pots, leds, keyscanning, MIDI, WIFI, and USB. It also seems like the second DCO is not really analog at all, since it only appears to be doing variations of a square wave. Probing around a bit will lead to a better answer. Anyway it's fun to see the guts.
Old 5th February 2017
  #8
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
where is the fan couldn't see it anywhere..?

*edit actually that's it on picture 6 no..?
Old 5th February 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock View Post
Tons of Coolaudio LM13700 clones for OTA filters and VCAs.
And apparently no custom analog ICs at all. So it was probably rather cheap to develop and doesn't risk repeating the Alesis Andromeda's mistake.

The PCB layout looks rather tidy as well. It's kind of funny that people complain about SMD-based electronics and cheap Chinese components when they're largely what makes this whole "analog renaissance" thing possible.
Old 5th February 2017
  #10
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You wouldn't be a Yamaha CSxx owner per chance? Blow one of those babies, and pay the big $$$$$$.
My CS-40m is full of those!

Quote:
Originally Posted by acreil View Post
And apparently no custom analog ICs at all.
Old 5th February 2017
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Betamax View Post
You wouldn't be a Yamaha CSxx owner per chance? Blow one of those babies, and pay the big $$$$$$.
My CS-40m is full of those!
No, I have lots of Yamaha gear though, all of them using custom ICs. Fortunately I haven't seen any of them fail.

The iGxxxx ICs are a big reason why we'll never see the CS series reissued. It would be considerably easier to reissue the GX1 or SY models (or more reasonably, something derived from those original designs).
Old 5th February 2017
  #12
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Two fans. Pic 3 and 6
Old 5th February 2017
  #13
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Wow!!!! I am not an electronic guru but this thing looks so legit!!!
Old 5th February 2017
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectwoofer View Post
Discreet circuitry?
LOL, according to Uli, yes.
Old 5th February 2017
  #15
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That voice board does looks like you won't need mad SMD soldering skills to replace dead chips. It looks like it was built with repairability as goal. This gives me a lot more confidence in the product than I previously had!
Old 5th February 2017
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock View Post
Tons of Coolaudio LM13700 clones for OTA filters and VCAs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acreil View Post
And apparently no custom analog ICs at all. So it was probably rather cheap to develop and doesn't risk repeating the Alesis Andromeda's mistake.
So much for discrete circuitry.
Old 5th February 2017
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazmatic View Post
So much for discrete circuitry.
Isn't not having oscillators on chips discrete circuitry. As far as including OTAs you weren't expecting all discrete OP amps in a compact 12 voice poly synth were you?!

Last edited by pandar; 5th February 2017 at 08:25 AM..
Old 5th February 2017
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandar View Post
Isn't not having oscillators on chips discrete circuitry. As far as including OTAs you weren't expecting all discrete OP amps in compact 12 voice a poly synth were you?!
Having Opamps on chips is not discrete circuitry.

If they advertise it as having a discrete audio signal path, then that is absolutely what I expect.

If it doesn't, they shouldn't have advertised it as if it did.
Old 5th February 2017
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Having Opamps on chips is not discrete circuitry.

If they advertise it as having a discrete audio signal path, then that is absolutely what I expect.

If it doesn't, they shouldn't have advertised it as if it did.
I guess I view the benefits of discrete circuitry as repairability not audio quality so for me op amps and otas aren't problem. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Although I doubt it would be possible to source the crazy amount of matched transistors necessary to go 100% discrete not have the price quadruple so I never thought that was what they meant by discrete.
-cheers
Old 5th February 2017
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandar View Post
I guess I view the benefits of discrete circuitry as repairability not audio quality so for me op amps and otas aren't problem. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Although I doubt it would be possible to source the crazy amount of matched transistors necessary to go 100% discrete not have the price quadruple so I never thought that was what they meant by discrete.
-cheers
They used 'discrete audio signal path' as a marketing term, as there is a perception that discrete sounds better than integrated.

Discrete has a particular and widely understood definition in electronics.

It was simply disingenuous to describe circuits which contain ICs as being discrete, they should never have used that term.
Old 5th February 2017
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
They used 'discrete audio signal path' as a marketing term, as there is a perception that discrete sounds better than integrated.

Discrete has a particular and widely understood definition in electronics.

It was simply disingenuous to describe circuits which contain ICs as being discrete, they should never have used that term.
Every analog synth has at least a few ICs. Even the original minimoog.
Old 5th February 2017
  #22
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Ulf Soderlund's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by acreil View Post
...The iGxxxx ICs are a big reason why we'll never see the CS series reissued. It would be considerably easier to reissue the GX1 or SY models...
The Yamaha CS-series contains the following custom Yamaha audio ICs:

iG 0 01 50 VCO-II
iG 0 01 51 VCA
iG 0 01 52 VCF-EG
iG 0 01 53 VCO-III
iG 0 01 56 VCF
iG 0 01 58 W.S.C
iG 0 01 59 VCA-EG

They are the functional equivalents of the epoxy-resin filled and pre-calibrated sub modules made up of discrete components found in the Yamaha (C)SY-1/2 | GX-1:

NE 1 01 00 VCO-I
NE 1 02 00 VCO-II
NE 1 03 00 W.S.C
NE 1 04 00 VCF-LPF
NE 1 05 00 VCF-HPF
NE 1 08 00 EG-VCA
NE 1 09 00 EG-VCF
NE 1 10 00 VCF-BPF
NE 1 11 00 VCO-EG-II
NE 1 15 00 VCO-III

The main design difference being the Sallen-Key Diode Ring Filters in the GX-1 and the State Variable Filters in the CS-80.

Both of these actual filter designs have been made commercially available - CS-80: Synthesis Technology - 480 and GX-1: Synthesis Technology - 485

All of the iG/NE above have as of today been reverse engineered by various entities, and in some cases, even remanufactured using discrete components.

However, the main obstacle recreating a complete 1:1 Yamaha GX-1 is the size/cost - you will need to start with 36 audio VCOs and 144 VCFs using discrete components for the basic audio core only...
Old 5th February 2017
  #23
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Ulf Soderlund's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
Every analog synth has at least a few ICs. Even the original minimoog.
No, the original R.A Moog Minimoog as well as the muSonics Minimoog did not use any ICs.

They had oscillator boards with discrete transistors, easy identifiable by the 10 trimmers used for adjusting the OSC 1/2/3 RANGE, OSC 1/2/3 SCALE, OSC 1/2/3 LEVEL and OCT.

Later units used the "Old Boards" with 7 trimmers for the OSC 1/2/3 RANGE, OSC 1/2/3 SCALE and OCT as well as the "New Boards" with 12 trimmers for the OSC 1/2/3 RANGE, OSC 1/2/3 SCALE, OSC 1/2/3 OCT ADJ and OSC 1/2/3 HI END COMP. These boards were equipped with ICs.
Old 6th February 2017
  #24
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Oh no, not the discreet vs. integrated discussion again. Things like these make GS go full r3t4rd
Old 6th February 2017
  #25
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Ulf Soderlund's Avatar
 

In electronics, a discrete component refers to a part with one specific circuit element - like a resistor, a capacitor or a transistor.

The term is used to distinguish the component from integrated circuits and hybrid circuits, which are built from several circuit elements in one common package.

However, this actual meaning of a discrete component has during later years shifted somewhat among the general public to now indicate something along the lines of "the smallest building block within a particular function that can be provided by a generally available, non-custom made, part" - like an OTA.
Old 6th February 2017
  #26
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
Found another processor under the LCD. Looks like that is doing the UI, so I suppose the XMOS is doing the DCOs and probably modulation.

Also attached is an image of the output board. There is WIFI under the can that I didn't bother opening. I like the output relays.
Attached Thumbnails
Deepmind 12 inside photos-img_4903c-.jpg   Deepmind 12 inside photos-img_4885c.jpg   Deepmind 12 inside photos-img_4876c.jpg  

Last edited by tonykara; 8th February 2017 at 07:11 PM.. Reason: Typos
Old 7th February 2017
  #27
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Someone get one to Markus Fuller stat! I'd love to see a PROPER teardown of this beast.

BTW, just because you see ICs doesn't mean they are in the audio path.
Old 7th February 2017
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapedseams View Post
...just because you see ICs doesn't mean they are in the audio path.
What if I see ICs? Or what if my eye sees ICs. Or what if I see that my ICs are icey? What if my left eye sees an Icee while I drive down an icey road on my way to the Ice Sea?

What does it all mean?!?!?!?!

What does the blind man say?

You see, I see, we all see with ICs!

When my grass is dead, I seed!
Old 7th February 2017
  #29
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapedseams View Post
BTW, just because you see ICs doesn't mean they are in the audio path.
And just because they say it's a two oscillator DCO based analog synth doesn't mean that's true either.
Old 7th February 2017
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonykara View Post
Here are several pictures of the inside of the DM12.
Thanks for pictures.

Please ignore trolls they don't sound warm and analog anymore.
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