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DSI: Prophet 08 REV 2
Old 26th January 2017
  #541
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
cmdb insists the P'08, P~12 and P REV2 have the same filter, so I'll accept that, but it still has some juice there that might all come down to layering two patches with a subOSC and effects.
Nah, I've listened to every P08 demo out there multiple times, owned a Mopho (twice) and there's definitely something going on there beyond a sub (which the Mopho/Tetra has) or fx (because there are plenty of videos now featuring patches without it). The sound is rounder and less cutting somehow, in a good way. Not sure what they did, or if it comes down to something as arcane as the same architecture with a different shipment of parts, but there's a solid difference for sure.
Old 26th January 2017
  #542
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigdagod View Post
I'm still on the fence about selling my 08. It seems like it only makes since with the new features. Good thing I have a couple months to decide. 16 voices sound amazing!
Im on the fence, then off the fence, with each video


Not sure I care about 16 voices (not st $2k), if the filter is improved and the on board fx attract me more...but not if 08's start getting dumped on ebay and bring their prices down...Ill likely wait it out a bit and see if any start popping up used as selling it for under $900 just doesnt seem worth it by the time you take in shipping and fees

The 08 is such a great sounding synth to me Ive never really thought about selling it or upgrading it so far anyway...it compliments my DM12 and other analogues well as its brassy character are missing in them.

That being said next video will change my mind again

Btw no one better diss the DM or the raving, full of static, fanbois, like myself, will shut you down, shut you down to china town...all while drenched in fx!!
Old 26th January 2017
  #543
Lives for gear
 

The REV2 really sounds nice in that last video. I also have the feeling the filter might be tweaked somehow. Maybe a different vca chip to add colour or more gain into the filter? The resonance also seems a bit broader sounding than on the 08.

But maybe I´m wrong, maybe it´s just very nice programming I hear. Anyhow, the REV2 does sound really good and reminds a bit of the 600. If only the lfos were global or there was a menue switch for global/per voice. I won´t give up yet and will wait for the manual to clear things up...
Old 26th January 2017
  #544
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Im on the fence, then off the fence, with each video


Not sure I care about 16 voices (not st $2k), if the filter is improved and the on board fx attract me more...but not if 08's start getting dumped on ebay and bring their prices down...Ill likely wait it out a bit and see if any start popping up used as selling it for under $900 just doesnt seem worth it by the time you take in shipping and fees

The 08 is such a great sounding synth to me Ive never really thought about selling it or upgrading it so far anyway...it compliments my DM12 and other analogues well as its brassy character are missing in them.

That being said next video will change my mind again

Btw no one better diss the DM or the raving, full of static, fanbois, like myself, will shut you down, shut you down to china town...all while drenched in fx!!
I agree about it complimenting the DM12. They both are different beast. I don't even think I should sell it, but the REV2 just makes it harder to decide if I should or not. I won't be selling it for $900 or less that's for sure. If I can't get what I want for it I will be keeping it as there isn't anything wrong with it. Hopefully the possibility to polychain to the 08 will exist so I can just get an 8 voice desktop if released.
Old 26th January 2017
  #545
Gear Maniac
 
philipNL's Avatar
 

Will it have a Wave Reset function?
Looking forward to a Soniclab review.
Old 27th January 2017
  #546
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flat's Avatar
Wonder if anyone will provide the light up clear mod/bender wheels?

Think it would look superb on the REV2.
Old 27th January 2017
  #547
Gear Nut
hmmm, didn't see a flanger listed in the effects, hope that's in there. if the effects are modulatable by the lfos and envelopes there could be a lot of fun interacting with a flanger...

Also, hope there's a way to reduce to mono... (if I am simultaneously singing only have one channel open on ye olde duet)

it does sound very impressive in the most recent demos...
just two random thoughts
Chris
Old 27th January 2017
  #548
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synthguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFromKyoto View Post
Nah, I've listened to every P08 demo out there multiple times, owned a Mopho (twice) and there's definitely something going on there beyond a sub (which the Mopho/Tetra has) or fx (because there are plenty of videos now featuring patches without it). The sound is rounder and less cutting somehow, in a good way. Not sure what they did, or if it comes down to something as arcane as the same architecture with a different shipment of parts, but there's a solid difference for sure.
That's me too. I thought the "Prophet REV2" has some juice and verve and depth of sound that wasn't quite there in the P'08. Then I wondered if it was just the subOSC, but lots of patches didn't use the sub. I wondered if it was the effects processor, but there were plenty of dry patches, and P'08 demos with outboard effects. Or that it sounded better because patches were layered, but not all of them were layered. I say it sounds better, and some here inform me that no, it has a subOSC, it has effects and all these patches are layered.

Hey, there is definitely something going on with this synth that makes my pleasure center tingle in ways the Prophet'08 doesn't quite, God love it. Whatever it is, I'm very pro this Pro REV2.
Old 27th January 2017
  #549
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flat's Avatar
Flanger and Phaser yep!

Old 28th January 2017
  #550
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
That's me too. I thought the "Prophet REV2" has some juice and verve and depth of sound that wasn't quite there in the P'08. Then I wondered if it was just the subOSC, but lots of patches didn't use the sub. I wondered if it was the effects processor, but there were plenty of dry patches, and P'08 demos with outboard effects. Or that it sounded better because patches were layered, but not all of them were layered. I say it sounds better, and some here inform me that no, it has a subOSC, it has effects and all these patches are layered.

Hey, there is definitely something going on with this synth that makes my pleasure center tingle in ways the Prophet'08 doesn't quite, God love it. Whatever it is, I'm very pro this Pro REV2.
Well, there's no mystery about what difference a sub osc would make, anyone who wants to make that argument can go listen to a Mopho or a Tetra. This doesn't quite sound as uncomfortably sharp as those. And FX aren't going to shape the primary tone that much unless a patch is super wet, and there are plenty we're hearing that are dry, or close enough to it.
Old 28th January 2017
  #551
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Smack Dammit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipNL View Post
Will it have a Wave Reset function?
Looking forward to a Soniclab review.
I think all modern synth's should have this as it really helps with bass....
The Rev 2 is shaping up to be a real beauty, I'm all in!
Old 28th January 2017
  #552
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Fuseball's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
Flanger and Phaser yep!

All 3 phasers from the OB6 too! I wonder which reverb algorithm it is? There were Hall, Room, Plate and Spring on the OB6 but only "Reverb" on the Rev2.
Old 28th January 2017
  #553
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robinkle's Avatar
I'd like to hear a good keyboard player play this thing.

Last edited by robinkle; 28th January 2017 at 10:33 AM..
Old 28th January 2017
  #554
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Gnalvl's Avatar
 

To the people wondering about an added sub-oscillator adding to the depth of the Rev2's sound, has anyone considered that maybe these are just duotimbral sounds running two of the same patch at different octaves?

This is a simple technique that makes a HUGE difference. On my MKS-80 I run almost all my patches in dual mode with one tone set to -1 octave. It's like having TWO sub-oscillators which can be further tweaked in all the ways "real" oscillators can, because they ARE real full oscillators. It sounds like one patch, but with WAY more body, depth, and fatness than monotimbral mode.

Likewise, regarding the idea that the filter is gain compensated, that's another thing which can be easily simulated using multitimbrality. Make 2 copies of a patch - one with the desired resonance level, and one with zero resonance, then run them together. Voila - instantaneous SEM filter type sound even at 24db.

All of this is why I sold my Mopho X4 in a matter of weeks, and always resolved that if I pined for the Dave DCO sound again I'd go with the P08 instead. The Mopho/Tetra sub osc was a false economy compared to the power of multimbral patches with deeper programability.

Of course normally the only reason NOT to use duotimbrality as a subosc on crack is because it cuts your polyphony on 6 and 8 voice synths down to 3 or 4 notes. On a 12 or 16 voice synth, that's no longer a problem.

I have been pining for an ultra-programmable DCO synth for a while and had been considering a polychained pair of Matrix 1000's for their greater vintage flavor, but now that it's possible to have a 16 voice P08 without even bothering to polychain, it becomes very tempting to come back to DSI. Certainly for people who loved the 16 voice capability of the Andromeda but were scared by all its issues, the Rev 2 is a much more inviting option.

My one complaint would be simply that 2 part multimbrality seems a bit low for a 16 voice synth. The ability to sequence out drum, bass, lead, etc. parts all on one synth is available on many much more meager 4 and 6 voice synths, (i.e. Ambika) and it would be really powerful with the Rev2 with 16 voices to spare. Then again, this would require an overhaul of the OS to handle all those parts, and possibly also interface changes (imagine if a step sequencer were added, awesome) so I get why they kept it to 2.
Old 28th January 2017
  #555
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Hazmatic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
The "Prophet REV2" - I'll join the revolt who want to see Prophet in the name - doesn't have the beefy discrete filter of the DM, or the mega-effects.
"Beefy" is one of the last words I would use to describe the DM12.

I wouldn't mind owning a Rev 2.
Old 28th January 2017
  #556
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manalishi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazmatic View Post
"Beefy" is one of the last words I would use to describe the DM12.
A synth you haven't even tried. You just can't help yourself, can you?

On to the naughty step you go...
Old 28th January 2017
  #557
Deleted b788fee
Guest
Could part of it be — all these years on — that people just know how to get "better" sounds out of Prophet 8/REV 2 architecture ... ???

Last edited by Deleted b788fee; 28th January 2017 at 10:45 PM..
Old 29th January 2017
  #558
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synthguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazmatic View Post
"Beefy" is one of the last words I would use to describe the DM12.
I won't be quite as strict as manalishi. But the DM12 does have discrete components involved in the audio circuitry. Particular mention was made of the filter, and it does sound to have more "guts" than the Dave Smith Curtis chip filters. Now these are very different synths, the DM12 essentially a super Juno but still rather basic. Meanwhile, the Prophet REV2 has all the bells and whistles of a true flagship synth, and it has a nice big sound.

Layering patches is definitely a thing, and the REV2 clearly has some of that going on in a few examples. Doing octaves with the same or similar patches could have been what we heard here and there, but overall, that's not what they've been showcasing. Rather, patches more or less doing their own things which harmonize well.

It sounds like the REV2 sits in the middle of a blend of textures running from OB-8 to Polymoog, with a big scoop of Prophet and a dash of Chroma and Andromeda sprinkled in, while still sounding unique as the P'08 did. There should be some very tasty demos coming down the pike.
Old 29th January 2017
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
Now these are very different synths, the DM12 essentially a super Juno but still rather basic.
You keep parroting this line in a lot of your DM12 related posts, but you are completely ignoring the complex FX architecture which, given its tight integration with the DM12's modulation capabilities, is a core part of said synth's feature set, and makes the synth quite unique. It is capable of whole palette of textures that most other synths, including the REV2, can't touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
It sounds like the REV2 sits in the middle of a blend of textures running from OB-8 to Polymoog, with a big scoop of Prophet and a dash of Chroma and Andromeda sprinkled in, while still sounding unique as the P'08 did. There should be some very tasty demos coming down the pike.
Hyperbole much? The REV2 sounds nothing at all like a Rhodes Chroma or Alesis Andromeda. We get it, you like the REV2, but this mindless DSI fanboyism that you exhibit each time they release a new product is incredibly tiresome
Old 29th January 2017
  #560
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synthguy's Avatar
SpaceChild, you strain on gnats and swallow a lot of camels around here.

If anyone is unaware of the TC Electronics effects in the DM12, they haven't been paying much attention to it, but they will quickly learn of its amazing capabilities. However, I don't think it's a good thing for a synth to rely on effects to sound great. It does sound good on its own, but some of those patches do rely on them too much because it isn't all that amazing a synth when you get down to it.

Likewise, I decidedly did not say the REV2 sounds the same as a Chroma or Andromeda. You seem to struggle with the difference between "a dash, a pinch, a touch, a scouche" etc, and "ZOMG these are SO alike just fuggetabout it." I have no idea why such unsubtle distinctions escape you so routinely. But you going on the usual tirade of how some synth or other "sounds nothing like" another is it's own facepalm. For instance, Gary Numan himself used both the Virus and Alesis Q synths to replace his Polymoog in concert. Do they sound like a Polymoog? Not so much, but can they? Maybe you should ask Gary since I'm so dodgy.

One more thing. If I'm a fanboy, I'm a fanboy of just about everything. I wiggle almost as much for vintage originals like the Matrix-12 and CS-80 as I do the Arturia softies and Omnisphere, and the new toys like the OB-6 and Relic-6. If you want to know what my main squee is right now though, check out my avvy. Anyway, I'm sure we'll all be waiting with baited breath for your demos of whatever synth you decide is all that and then some.

Last edited by synthguy; 29th January 2017 at 05:48 PM.. Reason: op amplification
Old 30th January 2017
  #561
Gear Nut
 

So far I like what I'm seeing / hearing with this new synth. Well,. all except for the non Prophet bearing name. :-) I'm currently considering selling my new Moog Sub 37 I just purchased, and getting the REV2 with the proceeds. I just like the sounds coming from the Rev 2 better than the 37. I know it's apples and oranges, but I'm learning I may not be a Mono "funky" sounds kinda guy! I already have a OB-6 and I'm not sure if there is enough "Dramatic" difference to justify owning both tHE ob-6 and REV2? Guess I have several months to decide.......
Old 30th January 2017
  #562
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mike vee's Avatar
This blows anything Behringer out of the water. Period.
Old 30th January 2017
  #563
Gear Addict
 
3Crystals's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
This blows anything Behringer out of the water. Period.
And only $1000 more than the dm12.Where did you play and demo both synths ?
Old 30th January 2017
  #564
Lives for gear
 

Music is not a contest.
Same goes for the gear.

Love my P6 and OB-1.
Old 30th January 2017
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
If anyone is unaware of the TC Electronics effects in the , they haven't been paying much attention to it, but they will quickly learn of its amazing capabilities.
And yet you opted not to mention it in the quoted post, and others. Instead you are completely misrepresenting the capabilities of the DeepMind12 by calling it a "super Juno" and "rather basic" while in the same post putting the REV2 on a pedestal by making completely unwarranted comparisons to synths which have no relation to it. You could have called the REV2 a "super JX8P", but you didn't.

This is just naked anti-Behringer bias on your behalf, coupled with maniacal Roland and DSI fanboyism. The market has been asking for a modern Roland style analog poly synth for over two decades now, and Roland has proven time and time again that they don't care at all about the market or fans of their vintage synths. Roland dropped the ball time and time again, so Behringer stepped in to fill that void, at a price which was previously unimaginable and in the process left a giant mushroom shaped bruise across the collective faces of Roland's corporate leadership.

If the DeepMind12 had been a Roland product, you, and others on this forum who have been bashing it, would have been singing its praises from the rooftops. Instead, because you can't face reality that Roland in its modern incarnation is a trash company with little to no relevance to serious electronic musicians, you take every opportunity you can to misrepresent the DeepMind12's capabilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
However, I don't think it's a good thing for a synth to rely on effects to sound great.
This is a very tired argument which has already been refuted multiple times and I'm going to use this opportunity to reiterate something that I said in another thread on the subject.

The notion that the DeepMind12 relies on effects to "sound great" is only valid if you ascribe to the extremely narrow-minded view that the only synthesizers worth owning are those which follow the standard East Coast VCO->VCF->VCA paradigm. The FX section of the DeepMind12 is just as integrated into its architecture as filters are in other synths, and not tacked on as an afterthought like on most other products.

Where does one even draw the line as far as what an effect is? Most synths "rely" on a filter to "sound great". In fact, lowpass filters predate what we now consider to be the first modern synthesizers, i.e. Buchla and Moog, and were in fact considered "effects", i.e. wah-wah pedals, before they were integrated into Moog synthesizers and the multitude of other synths which were inspired by them. Buchla synths never even adopted resonant lowpass filters like the ones which most of us are used to seeing.

So given that the filter was in fact originally an effect, do you also consider ring modulators, wave shapers, and general tone modifiers of all varieties worthy of the same nonsense that you're spewing here in regards to the FX section of the DeepMind12?

What about the variety of tone shaping tools found on DSI's own Prophet12? Are the components of the character section and feedback delays not an integral part of that synthesizer's architecture? Or are those too classified as effects included just to mask the "basic" nature of the Prophet 12's engine?

What about the multitude of modular FX units which can be patched in at any point of the signal chain when creating new sounds? More gimmicks? More distractions used to mask a weak underlying sound?

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
It does sound good on its own, but some of those patches do rely on them too much because it isn't all that amazing a synth when you get down to it.
More bias on your part. Again, even without its FX section, you would have been singing the praises of the DeepMind12 had it been released by Roland.

You simply lack the experience and imagination to see why, aside from the price, the DeepMind12 is so groundbreaking. Behring has essentially turned the hybrid synth model on its head. Where as previous analog/digital hybrids used digital sound generators to feed audio into an analog processing section, the DM12 does the opposite and feeds an analog section into a robust and tightly integrated digital processing section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
Anyway, I'm sure we'll all be waiting with baited breath for your demos of whatever synth you decide is all that and then some.
Ever heard of the saying about how people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones? I have a link to my soundcloud in my signature, complete with track descriptions detailing which synths were used.

Now it's your turn. Where exactly are your personal demos of all of the synths that you've been threatening to buy for all of these years? I believe that your list now includes the JDXA, Prophet 6, OB-6, and Voyager. We're still waiting for your sound files which show once and for all that the Prophet 6 sounds, as you stated, the "the same" as a Prophet5 revision 2, how the OB-6 is "the same" as an OB-X but with MIDI and a warranty, and how the Voyager is "the same" as a vintage Model D but with modern amenities.

Why haven't you put your money where your mouth is and purchased any of these synths? Do us all a favor and stop living vicariously through the members of this forum by telling them what to think and what to buy and go out and experience these products for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
One more thing. If I'm a fanboy, I'm a fanboy of just about everything. I wiggle almost as much for vintage originals like the Matrix-12 and CS-80 as I do the Arturia softies and Omnisphere, and the new toys like the OB-6 and Relic-6. If you want to know what my main squee is right now though, check out my avvy. Anyway, I'm sure we'll all be waiting with baited breath for your demos of whatever synth you decide is all that and then some.
Yes, just about everything, except the DeepMind 12, which you bash time and time again by mischaracterizing it.

As far as vintage synths are concerned, that is a complete lie. You've attacked people in the past, including myself, for stating that synths like the OB-X and Moog Model D were not suddenly redundant just because the OB-6 and Voyager were available on the market.

In regards to your avatar, the JD-XA has been available for two years now. Again, what has been stopping you from buying one?

Last edited by SovietSpaceChild; 30th January 2017 at 01:24 AM..
Old 30th January 2017
  #566
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synthguy's Avatar
About that "Juno" thing...



Quote:
The video starts out with a discussion of how the new synth came to be. Then it moves on to a hands-on demo with the new synth.

Along the way, they talk about the ‘Phat 12’, the working prototype for the DeepMind 12, and how it evolved from the ‘Phat 108’, inspired by the Roland Juno 106. They also talk about how, while making a Juno 106 clone was the original concept, the design evolved significantly.
Note he didn't say "They chucked the idea and made something completely different." I think if you wouldn't be such a stubborn argumentative sort for no good reason, I might want to talk to you more often. Well, or much.

I don't consider it such a stab in the face to call a synth inspired by the Juno-106 with a basic second oscillator "a super Juno." To me and actually a few others around here, that's fair dinkum. If you disagree, that's great, but the public record tilts more my way than yours. And by the way, I happen to own and still use in serious studio projects, quite a number of Behringer pieces, and have stood up for Behringer in a number of threads, so evidently you aren't following me very much.
Old 30th January 2017
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
About that "Juno" thing...




Note he didn't say "They chucked the idea and made something completely different." I think if you wouldn't be such a stubborn argumentative sort for no good reason, I might want to talk to you more often. Well, or much.

I don't consider it such a stab in the face to call a synth inspired by the Juno-106 with a basic second oscillator "a super Juno." To me and actually a few others around here, that's fair dinkum. If you disagree, that's great, but the public record tilts more my way than yours. And by the way, I happen to own and still use in serious studio projects, quite a number of Behringer pieces, and have stood up for Behringer in a number of threads, so evidently you aren't following me very much.
Stop backpedaling. You disparaged the DM12, so own up to it.

No one is denying that the DM12 is inspired by the Juno, but you clearly did not use "super Juno" as a term of endearment in your statement, seeing as how you qualified said statement by stating that the DM12 is "rather basic", going on to state that the DM12 "isn't all that amazing", and that it relies too much on FX, completely ignoring that the FX section of the DM12 is an integral part of its synth engine and overall capabilities. You are categorically misrepresenting the DeepMind12 in such a way that it amounts to bashing it.

Furthermore, why are you avoiding the subject of your not posting any audio demos of your own after you so disgracefully called me out on my music? We're all still waiting for you to substantiate your claims of parity between all of the aforementioned synths in this thread. Also, why have you not addressed the issue of why you have yet to buy a single one of the synths that you have promised to purchase, all the while denying the members of this forum the freedom of conscience to express their opinions about said synths by shouting down any opinion which runs contrary to your fantastical claims about those very same synthesizers?
Old 30th January 2017
  #568
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shalimo's Avatar
 

the way you guys are fighting you better own stock in these companies
Old 30th January 2017
  #569
Lives for gear
O dear o dear let's all be friends people yet another thread descent into endless bickering I'm seeing a pattern now...
Old 30th January 2017
  #570
Gear Head
 
jubnoske08's Avatar
i've seen lots of hate on this thread towards the P08 (lots of love also, but a surprising number of negative comments). I just don't see it. Maybe it's a little more finicky to dial in sounds than the P6 and OB6? Maybe the P6 and OB6 are "richer," "creamier," more unpredictable. But that doesn't make them automatically more musical. There's something beautifully understated about the way the P08 sounds. I saw someone else posted another Marc Melia video, but I think this is really his best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNf82V4LefQ

Sounds pretty damn cool to me. The Rev2 definitely improves on this in terms of features, and if it improves on the sound by even a little but, I'm really excited. So much so that I just preordered one instead of picking up a Prophet 6 which I planned to buy in the next month or so.

Last edited by jubnoske08; 30th January 2017 at 08:19 AM..
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