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Akai MPCX Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 18th January 2017
  #331
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
A solid body of BS, more like it.
Hey, I mean, its just science, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Look at the front panel of the MPC-X. Notice all the buttons and other controls to the left and right of the screen.

If you can't reach the screen easily in normal use, then you can't reach the buttons and other controls next to it, so you can't use it anyway. Get some surgery on them stupid short arms! Or if you have birth defects related to Thalidomide, then maybe you have to accept that is product is not for you.
Hey at least I'm not a fat guy in this thread! Pretty good indicator that you have no valid response, I'd say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
If the vertical screen is a problem, lay it flat.
Your arm would still be suspended while using it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Or wait until it is released, test it in actual use, and find out if it really is a problem, vs a problem you have made up in your head. If it is a problem, buy something else.
Not the worst advice, notwithstanding the 4-500 you may waste carrying it out. I'm sure some people will get along just fine with it. And I'm sure most of us will end up with more pictures of it than songs made with it. I have a feeling there may be a correlation...

Now, I never really understood how inanimate objects could inspire such passion (but I digress), but you could have just as easily just denied the science while keeping the petty crap to yourself. Like you did in the other thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Why are you going to need your hand up in the air tapping and dragging for very long?

Is it going to be up in the air tapping that much more than when you are playing pads and using the other controls on the MPC?

LOL!
Yes. Your elbows will be closer to you side while playing the pads and operating the other controls. Just like all other MPCs that preceded it. But you knew that.
Old 18th January 2017
  #332
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Isn't everything available to control and select from the knobs and buttons on the machine? I could see it getting old always having to interact with a touch screen, turning knobs and pushing buttons sounds a bit more natural. Hell, isn't that why everyone wants a stand alone anyway? Hands On control. Touch screens were never a bit hit in the computer world either.
Old 18th January 2017
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Hey, I mean, its just science, right?
Really, there is a body of ergonomic science in the GS MPC-Live thread?



Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Hey at least I'm not a fat guy in this thread! Pretty good indicator that you have no valid response, I'd say.
What sort of valid response do you expect from that stupid photo, and any discussion based on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Your arm would still be suspended while using it.
Just like your arm would be suspended when using the function keys under the display, the top row of pads, or the buttons and other controls to the left and right of the display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Not the worst advice, notwithstanding the 4-500 you may waste carrying it out.
You waste nothing going into a store and trying it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Now, I never really understood how inanimate objects could inspire such passion (but I digress), but you could have just as easily just denied the science while keeping the petty crap to yourself. Like you did in the other thread...
There is no science being presented here, you have not used it, those speculating have not used it, that is not science, that is just petty crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Yes. Your elbows will be at your side while operating the other controls. Just like all other MPCs that preceded it.
Just like they would be using the touchscreen, the screen is right next to the other controls, it is only an issue in your head.
Old 18th January 2017
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Isn't everything available to control and select from the knobs and buttons on the machine?
Yes, I think the drama queens here are overstating the issue.
Old 18th January 2017
  #335
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Isn't everything available to control and select from the knobs and buttons on the machine? I could see it getting old always having to interact with a touch screen, turning knobs and pushing buttons sounds a bit more natural. Hell, isn't that why everyone wants a stand alone anyway? Hands On control. Touch screens were never a bit hit in the computer world either.
Touchscreens have been a huge success in certain devices. Other devices, specifically those that sit at chest height 2 feet away from you, not so much.

In my opinion that's why handheld phones and tablets have succeeded while the touchscreen laptop/desktop has failed. All you really have to do to test the theory is put your finger on your computer screen right now and leave it there for a minute.

I don't know if there is any functionality exclusive to the touch interface, but at the very least it will make many many routine operations (slicing, editing MIDI, automation) just plain intuitive.
Old 18th January 2017
  #336
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Yes, I think the drama queens here are overstating the issue.
Funny that the drama queen is the one not hurling insults... This is what people with no valid argument do. Carry on.
Old 18th January 2017
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Funny that the drama queen is the one not hurling insults... This is what people with no valid argument do. Carry on.
And what is a valid argument? That photo from MPC forums?

Old 18th January 2017
  #338
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
What sort of valid response do you expect from that stupid photo, and any discussion based on it?
I didnt make or post or link to the picture. I raised my concerns before I had seen the photo. I'm sorry you're taking it personally, but that doesn't have jack to do with me. So take your frustrations out on somebody else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Just like your arm would be suspended when using the function keys under the display, the top row of pads, or the buttons and other controls to the left and right of the display.
Oh sorry, I had assumed you had used an MPC before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
You waste nothing going into a store and trying it out.
Not a long enough period of time to assess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
There is no science being presented here,
I'm not doing your homework for you. Google exists. Or stay ignorant. Your choice.

Last edited by mp3; 18th January 2017 at 04:08 AM..
Old 18th January 2017
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Touchscreens have been a huge success in certain devices. Other devices, specifically those that sit at chest height 2 feet away from you, not so much.
The screen is the same distance from the user as the other controls on the MPC, you already have to use controls that are the same distance and height from the user as what the screen is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
All you really have to do to test the theory is put your finger on your computer screen right now and leave it there for a minute.
Why do you have to put your finger on the MPC-X screen and leave it there for a minute?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I don't know if there is any functionality exclusive to the touch interface
That's right, you don't know, you haven't used it, you are just making all this drama up in your head.
Old 18th January 2017
  #340
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I didnt make or post or link to the picture. I raised my concerns before I had seen the photo. I'm sorry you're taking it personally, but that doesn't have jack to do with me. So take your frustrations out on somebody else.
I'm not taking anything personally, LOL, though you seem to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Oh sorry, I had assumed you had used an MPC before.
I have, and the touchscreen on this MPC is right next to all the other controls you have to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Not a long enough period of time to assess.
LOL! Well I guess that you just have to take the chance, waste the money to try it out, or just accept that it possibly isn't for you and move on to something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I'm not doing your homework for you. Google exists. Or stay ignorant. Your choice.
There is no solid body of science regarding the ergonomics of the MPC-X touchscreen on GS, or Google.
Old 18th January 2017
  #341
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Why are you going to need your hand up in the air tapping and dragging for very long?

Is it going to be up in the air tapping that much more than when you are playing pads and using the other controls on the MPC?

LOL!
NOT LOL ACTUALLY
Your hands rest on the buttons and pads frequently while operating an MPC. Constant access to the touch screen keeps your hand up in the air. When you have actaully purchased an MPC let me know so I know your advise will be relevant.
Old 18th January 2017
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveItAll View Post
NOT LOL ACTUALLY
Your hands rest on the buttons and pads frequently while operating an MPC. Constant access to the touch screen keeps your hand up in the air
Have you used the MPC-X?

What happens if you lay the touchscreen flat, how is it different to the other controls then?

Why is constant access to the touchscreen necessary?

Why can't your hands rest on the buttons and pads when using the touchscreen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveItAll View Post
When you have actaully purchased an MPC let me know so I know your advise will be relevant.
When you have actaully purchased an MPC-X let me know so I know your concerns will be relevant.
Old 18th January 2017
  #343
Lives for gear
 

At least I should be able to pickup a cheap second hand MPC-X, when all the pre-orderers sell up due to ergonomic issues a couple of weeks after they get them.

Actually, the touchscreen might actually reduce the likely-hood of carpel tunnel syndrome.
Old 18th January 2017
  #344
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
The screen is the same distance from the user as the other controls on the MPC,
If, by 'same distance from the user as the other controls' you mean 'above and behind the other controls', then yeah you're right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Why do you have to put your finger on the MPC-X screen and leave it there for a minute?
I dunno, to zoom and scroll and enter and edit MIDI and automation maybe? To zoom and scroll and edit and chop samples perhaps? To navigate to a folder and name files? Maybe all the stuff that is more intuitive from the screen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
I'm not taking anything personally, LOL, though you seem to be.
Really? So the person not hurling insults is taking it personally. Ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
There is no solid body of science regarding the ergonomics of the MPC-X touchscreen on GS, or Google.
That's called a straw man.
Old 18th January 2017
  #345
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
If, by 'same distance from the user as the other controls' you mean 'above and behind the other controls', then yeah you're right.
No, I don't mean above and behind the other controls, I mean the same distance from the user...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I dunno, to enter and edit MIDI and automation maybe? To edit and chop samples perhaps? To name files? Maybe all the stuff that is more intuitive from the screen?
Entering and editing MIDI is more intuitive from the pads than the screen. Automation, and editing/chopping files might be more intuitive from the QLinks.

If you have ergonomic related illnesses, operating a keyboard is possibly better for you, and is possibly more intuitive anyway, from an external qwerty keyboard, than on the touchscreen.

But yeah, you think it is going to be unusable ergonomically, and for you, with a past history of ergonomic related illness, maybe it will be, I just don't agree that in general it is going to be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Really? So the person not hurling insults is taking it personally. Ok.
Nope, not taking anything personally.

You are taking my comments about that ridiculous photo from MPC Forums, and the suggestion that you can not reach the touchscreen because it is too far away, personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
That's called a straw man.
Yes, pointing to a body of ergonomic science on Google, that doesn't actually address the MPC-X itself, when the MPC-X might not even be an ergonomic problem in use, is a straw man argument.
Old 18th January 2017
  #346
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greenlights's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Isn't everything available to control and select from the knobs and buttons on the machine? I could see it getting old always having to interact with a touch screen, turning knobs and pushing buttons sounds a bit more natural. Hell, isn't that why everyone wants a stand alone anyway? Hands On control. Touch screens were never a bit hit in the computer world either.
Touchscreens have been a huge success in certain devices. Other devices, specifically those that sit at chest height 2 feet away from you, not so much.

In my opinion that's why handheld phones and tablets have succeeded while the touchscreen laptop/desktop has failed. All you really have to do to test the theory is put your finger on your computer screen right now and leave it there for a minute.

I don't know if there is any functionality exclusive to the touch interface, but at the very least it will make many many routine operations (slicing, editing MIDI, automation) just plain intuitive.
But what if I don't want to touch the screen anyway?
Old 18th January 2017
  #347
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greenlights's Avatar
Remember, due to the lack of space on the Live, you have to touch the screen for damn near everything. So yeah, it'll work for that(being Compact). The MPCX doesn't have that problem. It's full of buttons and knobs too.
Old 18th January 2017
  #348
Lives for gear
 

If it is an issue, maybe someone will come up with a way to remotely mount the screen, 'might' be possible, 'if' you can extend the cables and 'if' it still works after doing so.



Create a cradle that you can mount the removed touchscreen into, commercially produced or with files to 3D print your own, that can be positioned beside the MPC-X...drama solved (or different dramas created due to the screen no longer being in direct line of sight, now you are going to have neck related ergonomic issues, LOL!).
Old 18th January 2017
  #349
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Or find an ergonomic stand, with built-in arm support?...

Old 18th January 2017
  #350
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlights View Post
But what if I don't want to touch the screen anyway?
As long as you're okay with paying for a touchscreen you don't intend to use...

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlights View Post
Remember, due to the lack of space on the Live, you have to touch the screen for damn near everything. So yeah, it'll work for that(being Compact). The MPCX doesn't have that problem. It's full of buttons and knobs too.
True. The touchscreen on the Live is in a much better position for heavy use, and that's a good thing given you're much more dependent on it. If I do get one of these machines, it'll be that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Or find an ergonomic stand, with built-in arm support?...

Okay that was funny...

I don't want people to think I'm picking nits, its just that RSI hurts like a bitch and it makes me evaluate gear (and gear stands and studio setups and live setups etc.) carefully. I earn my living using a computer every day for 8 hours; I was forced to start using my mouse (or trackball or trackpad - I have to switch it up) with my left hand, and even though I'm careful to support my wrist and forearm, I'm still starting to feel discomfort in my left wrist. And I'm only 40, I have at least another 20 years of career left... My right wrist hurts after a gig, and I've done all I can do about it; can't play with a brace, just position my keyboards as best I can and deal with it... For me ergonomics is literally a matter of health and well being. If its not a problem for you, then hey, I envy you... Just don't discount the fact that it could become a problem for you.

Last edited by mp3; 18th January 2017 at 06:37 AM..
Old 18th January 2017
  #351
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depulse's Avatar
Live might be better from an ergonomic aspect for the arms and wrists, but I wonder what looking downwards for hours will do for your neck and back. An being soon 50, is the text and information big enough to be viewed or can one zoom enough? I recently traded my iPad mini for an iPad Air just to have a larger screen, I wonder how well the Live will work for us geriatrics....
Old 18th January 2017
  #352
Gear Maniac
 

I havn't seen a single image with the touchscreen lying face down...yet in every photo thats out there it looks like the screen is going to stick out beyond the top facia, surely thats an optical illusion?
Old 18th January 2017
  #353
Lives for gear
Now now you lot.

Personally I hope it's still possible to perform all edits from the panel.

I'm in the 'screen looks way way 'out-of-place big' camp...
Old 18th January 2017
  #354
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Yes, I think the drama queens here are overstating the issue.
Drama in a thread of some new hardware?
Well I never!


Just ordered one today and the salesperson said it was selling pretty well.
Old 18th January 2017
  #355
Lives for gear
 

Surely you mean pre sales and orders as I don't think it has hit the shops yet.

Cheers

Last edited by nickknack; 18th January 2017 at 11:22 AM.. Reason: Mistakes
Old 18th January 2017
  #356
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syntonica's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuse View Post
Drama in a thread of some new hardware?
Well I never!


Just ordered one today and the salesperson said it was selling pretty well.
Now I'm gonna lie awake for the test of the night wondering how many Xs are selling vs the Lives. . Thomann to the rescue?
Old 18th January 2017
  #357
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

I've never liked using an MPC on a flat surface. I got one of these thingys (below) and put some black-painted plywood on the top. That gives me an adjustable eazel for it which is much more ergonomical. If I were getting an X I'd be doing the same thing.

Old 18th January 2017
  #358
Gear Maniac
 
verbmusics's Avatar
 

just spoke to my sweetwater rep few days ago and mpc x is expected in april, assuming you preorder now. in other news, the matrixbrute should ship this week from sweetwater. what a pair those 2 would make! i'm super excited over the mpc x. i come from using push for years, then maschine mk2, and then a push 2. i got to use the mpc touch for a 6 month period last year and the software is fully matured. there are some areas that frustrated me due to wonky workflow but overall the experience was wonderful. i am really excited for this mpc x and that mpc live looks amazing too. i'm looking forward to integrating the mpc x with my eurorack and other fixed gear. here we are on the eve of namm 17 and we have so many wonderful choices and reissues - WHAT A TIME to make music. too bad i haven't released anything official since 2012 (but still have fun making music) cheers
Old 18th January 2017
  #359
Gear Addict
 
Pilotwings's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Would this be sturdy enough for the MPC4000?
Old 18th January 2017
  #360
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotwings View Post
Would this be sturdy enough for the MPC4000?
Easily. I'd recommend a Quik Lok QL-400 instead though. OTOH, that stand above could be set up to hold 2 or 3 tabletop units by just using a bigger piece of plywood.
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