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Roland TR-08 Desktop Synthesizers
Old 10th August 2017
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
Sorry, I meant that the kick in TR-08 sounds lame, in comparison to the original.

I own DS as well. Haven't used the 808-side much, though.
Oh, I see. Yeah, that particular video didn't properly demonstrate the power of the TR08's kick because the volume level was set too low compared to the level of the kick on the real 808.
Old 10th August 2017
  #242
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
This part of the discussion was about the Egyptian Lover video where he did AB testing against the real 808.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rids View Post
His demo sounds messed up. Actually sounded really far off, so far that it can't be a 1 to 1 comparison. I suspect he had levels and fine adjusts out of whack.
Below


Quote:
Originally Posted by Discopotato View Post
It does have a built in DSP Compressor, and if it's like the TR-09, it is set at 100/255 by default on the Kick and Snare in addition to the Gain (100/255) setting for all of the sounds on the 09. So it might sound a bit off and slightly processed just because it is slightly processed with the default settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kvmoore View Post
Oh, I see. Yeah, that particular video didn't properly demonstrate the power of the TR08's kick because the volume level was set too low compared to the level of the kick on the real 808.
^^ These two so hard. If I can add something, if I was to take a guess he just plugged into whatever mixer or interface and set the volumes & EQ to be identical. Our perception is what it is in that anything that is set a bit louder always sounds better.

Here I suspect -and someone can prove me wrong but I don't have the time today to dig into specs- there is an impedence or gain structure difference between the old and the new with the new version set to be more compatible with modern recording interfaces. That difference would equate to a difference in volume levels between the two if set at the same levels at the interface. Again would lead to people favoring one over the other in a blind listening.

Egyptian Lover himself seems genuinely impressed. Many who actually own both original 909's and 303's and the 09's and 03's also seem to be in the same camp. Of course there are pro's and con's with each.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyparts View Post
I'm curious to know how different (if at all?) this new ACB chip really is when compared to the TR8? I haven't had a chance to hear a TR09 up close, but have read people saying it's superior. Is that really the case?
There are some A/B comparisons between the TR8 and 09 and the conclusion was the ACB technology is a bit better more realistic. The 09 won out in hands on functionality because it is identical to the the original.
Old 10th August 2017
  #243
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
Below
There are some A/B comparisons between the TR8 and 09 and the conclusion was the ACB technology is a bit better more realistic. The 09 won out in hands on functionality because it is identical to the the original.
The TR8 and TR09 are both ACB tech - just possibly with some little tweaks between each, but fundamentally the same software underneath
Old 10th August 2017
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
Below







^^ These two so hard. If I can add something, if I was to take a guess he just plugged into whatever mixer or interface and set the volumes & EQ to be identical. Our perception is what it is in that anything that is set a bit louder always sounds better.

Here I suspect -and someone can prove me wrong but I don't have the time today to dig into specs- there is an impedence or gain structure difference between the old and the new with the new version set to be more compatible with modern recording interfaces. That difference would equate to a difference in volume levels between the two if set at the same levels at the interface. Again would lead to people favoring one over the other in a blind listening.

Egyptian Lover himself seems genuinely impressed. Many who actually own both original 909's and 303's and the 09's and 03's also seem to be in the same camp. Of course there are pro's and con's with each.



There are some A/B comparisons between the TR8 and 09 and the conclusion was the ACB technology is a bit better more realistic. The 09 won out in hands on functionality because it is identical to the the original.
Someone noticed, thanks. If Egyptian Lover has been using an original for years, he can probably hit the sweet spot as far as controls and mixer settings go in his sleep. Balancing the boutique's front panel controls with the menu options that let the user dial in or dial out subtle differences in gain-staging(like slight saturation or drive), the absent controls (pitch/tuning and decay), and the additional compressor probably didn't occur to him if it was even intended to be an in depth sound comparison; that's hardly an environment to even do a sound comparison in the first place.

I'm never ceased to be amazed by the "special ears" some people claim to have...

Will it be exactly identical? Unlikely.

Will it sound great at a show or as part of a digitally recorded mix? It actually might sound better in a completed mix with less effort, if you ask me.
Old 10th August 2017
  #245
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

I think not having pitch controls on the front of this box is a major over site. Especially since pitch swings are so en vogue right now.
Old 10th August 2017
  #246
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
The TR8 and TR09 are both ACB tech - just possibly with some little tweaks between each, but fundamentally the same software underneath
I forgot. Tweaks and updates to the engine likely. The 09 did sound slightly better when I compared them side to side. Others seem to agree. I think most of the side by side demos online do a just comparison with something looking like this with marginal differences in tone Tr-909 > Tr-09 > TR8. The edge goes to the 09 over the tr8 is it's closer in tone to the 909 but also has an identical layout in controls and functionality.
Old 10th August 2017
  #247
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvmoore View Post
You have a right to your own opinon of course, and I respect that.

However, I feel the kick on the Novation Drumstation is not lame . I used to own a Drumstation and that's one piece of gear I regret selling and would buy back BECAUSE of it's 808 kick (sold it for financial reasons). Tip: Listen to the Drumstation's 808 kick on GOOD subwoofers, (like in a car) and you might start to think differently (about it being lame that is). This is coming from someone who pretty much owns everything 808 or 808 related, including the famous R8m with the Electronic.card, Boss Dr. 660, the real deal 808, the TR8, and tons of 808 samples inside of an MPC.
I own a drumstation and I always thought the 808 was really good, especially the tuning.The 909 is not great. I bought it more for 909 bit now I'm loving the 808 sound much more.
Old 10th August 2017
  #248
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Why would it ship with compression on as default if it is closer without? That does not make sense to me.
Old 10th August 2017
  #249
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swiller's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
Can someone splain to me why I would rather get this TR08 instead of the Aira TR8 besides that this is less expensive?
Id say..
  • You prefer the sound of the Tr08 and its really only 808 sounds you are after.
  • You dont like green lights on a drum machine. (Which is a bit silly i think).
  • USB audio is important in a variety of sample rates (The TR8 seems to be struggling with 44.1/48 even after its new update).
  • You prefer the 808 style Tr08 sequencer.
  • You want to be able to chuck it in a laptop bag. (Although a TR8 can.. just about).
  • You rely on USB power.

Other than that, id say go TR8 if you want an all purpose drum machine and not that bothered about it being a real 808/909. It can do those jobs fine with a slant of its own personality, which is a good thing i think. Love mine to bits and wont be sold. Expansions of 606/707 are great. You can mix and match kits as well which is a huge bonus imho.
Old 10th August 2017
  #250
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
I think not having pitch controls on the front of this box is a major over site. Especially since pitch swings are so en vogue right now.
Man, this.

being able to easily tweak pitch pots for each sound is massively clutch imo.
also if you wanna hit record and bend the cymbal groove on the fly.. doh
Old 10th August 2017
  #251
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I always enjoy this guys perspective
Old 10th August 2017
  #252
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horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyKatt View Post
I always enjoy this guys perspective
That's because you're him with a new login alias after you got called out posting this stuff pretending it wasn't you in that other thread.

FilmNMusicman and KeyKatt share the same IP address.

Old 10th August 2017
  #253
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyKatt View Post
I always enjoy this guys perspective
Spamming in the third person is spamming nonetheless.

Face.

Palm.
Old 10th August 2017
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
the JP-08 seems to be the max voice architecture that the hardware can run without issue at 4 voices. if they could push it another voice, i think they would have.
That was the old chip design, The newer Boutiques use a faster processor that can also do 96k. The VP-03 as example is 6-voice.
Old 10th August 2017
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadia View Post
That was the old chip design, The newer Boutiques use a faster processor that can also do 96k. The VP-03 as example is 6-voice.
Do they? I haven't seen the circuit boards of the newer Boutiques, know of any tear downs out there?
Old 10th August 2017
  #256
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
That's because you're him with a new login alias after you got called out posting this stuff pretending it wasn't you in that other thread.

FilmNMusicman and KeyKatt share the same IP address.

SNAP! Internet police gotcha!

But I actually do like those videos...
Old 10th August 2017
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous View Post
Spamming in the third person is spamming nonetheless.

Face.

Palm.
Huh? Is the person posting as KeyKatt the same guy as in the vid?
Old 10th August 2017
  #258
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lectrojape View Post
Huh? Is the person posting as KeyKatt the same guy as in the vid?
Sad but true. All that aside KeyKatt is like the smartest person in the world when it comes to synthesizers. I mean his mad knowledge on the subject would have made Bob Moog blush. We should be honored to be in his presence.

Old 10th August 2017
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
Do they? I haven't seen the circuit boards of the newer Boutiques, know of any tear downs out there?
The 09 and 03 use ARM processors, the first 3 boutiques used the ESC2 FPGA same with the System-1/1m. I believe the TR-8 uses the ESC2 but not 100% on that.

Edit: these DO NOT have ARM processors, I was mistaken.

Last edited by Discopotato; 11th August 2017 at 12:20 AM.. Reason: Correction
Old 10th August 2017
  #260
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Fatboy Slim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discopotato View Post
The 09 and 03 use ARM processors, the first 3 boutiques used the ESC2 FPGA same with the System-1/1m. I believe the TR-8 uses the ESC2 but not 100% on that.
Yeah, the TR-8 uses two ESC2. Where did you hear that the 09 and 03 used ARM?
Old 10th August 2017
  #261
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breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
Sad but true. All that aside KeyKatt is like the smartest person in the world when it comes to synthesizers. I mean his mad knowledge on the subject would have made Bob Moog blush. We should be honored to be in his presence.

Why doesn't he just say 'here's a video I made on the subject if you're interested in my opinion?' rather than do that? Odd...
Old 10th August 2017
  #262
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horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
Why doesn't he just say 'here's a video I made on the subject if you're interested in my opinion?' rather than do that? Odd...
Who cares about anybody's opinion unless they've tried the thing? It's basically just a react video reacting to a bunch of marketing vids. Kinda pointless, really.

Like this thread.
Old 10th August 2017
  #263
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
Why doesn't he just say 'here's a video I made on the subject if you're interested in my opinion?' rather than do that? Odd...
dude is just shameless. you'd think, especially after he *already* got called out for third-person spamming, that he'd have the mild modicum of humility required to just say "hey guys, i made this thing! check it out!" instead of pretending to be somebody else who thinks it's cool. the videos themselves are okay enough, although it's more talking/opinions than it is active+useful demonstration. but then- that's the kind of behavior you might expect from somebody who feels the need to create multiple profiles for the purpose of spamming a message board to make himself look like he isn't hyping his own videos. lol cripes, just own your work.
Old 10th August 2017
  #264
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WozNYC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyKatt View Post
I always enjoy this guys perspective
Really? I find his videos pretty silly.
He seems to think he's still in The Matrix.
Old 10th August 2017
  #265
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BassX's Avatar
so, Roland brings out a small affordable digital drumcomputer which is about 10 times cheaper than the original and still people complain that it doesn't sound 100% the same?
why not buy an original for $4000?
Old 10th August 2017
  #266
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WozNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyKatt View Post
I always enjoy this guys perspective
Really? I find his videos pretty silly.
He seems to think he's still in The Matrix.
MORPHEUS:
"This is the contruct. It's our loading program. We can load anything from clothing, to equipment, weapons, vintage drum machine emulations... anthing we need"

NEO:
"right now, this drum machine, is a computer program?"

MORPHEUS:
"Is it really so hard to believe? The size is different, the knobs are different, the plugs in the back are gone. The TR-08 appearance is what we call residual self image"

NEO:
"This... this isn't real?"

MORPHEUS:
"What is real? The Boutique Series is a computer generated dream world, designed to transform us into one thing.

This:

"

Old 10th August 2017
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post


Fatboy Slim

Yeah, the TR-8 uses two ESC2. Where did you hear that the 09 and 03 used ARM?
I was wrong. It was on a different gearslutz thread, the poster was later corrected. I'm assuming it uses the System-8 FPGA then.
Old 10th August 2017
  #268
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Rogue Ai's Avatar
I don't think it sounds bad... it's the lack of outputs for me... (and the size is the biggest reason for that).
Old 10th August 2017
  #269
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discopotato View Post
The 09 and 03 use ARM processors, the first 3 boutiques used the ESC2 FPGA same with the System-1/1m. I believe the TR-8 uses the ESC2 but not 100% on that.
Have you got any references for the TB-03 and TR-09 getting by with ARMs for the ACB part? The one boutique I've seen a teardown of, the JP-08 (here and on Markus Fuller's channel), uses an 24MHz ARM uC for the control panel and an ESC for the ACB. I'd assume that all ACB Boutiques uses the same basic architecture, which also makes me wonder why you think that the TR-08 would use the ESC2 chips (again, any refs?).

Oh, and I keep seeing the ESC chips referred to as FPGAs here on GS (by you...). Do you have any reference for that? (I don't think they're FPGAs)

Edit: Ninja'd by DP while searching for facts and collecting references. I still would like to see a reference for ESC being an FPGA.
Old 10th August 2017
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassX View Post
so, Roland brings out a small affordable digital drumcomputer which is about 10 times cheaper than the original and still people complain that it doesn't sound 100% the same?
why not buy an original for $4000?
I get what you are saying but there is a discrepancy between the actual output and how Roland markets ACB.

From What is Analog Circuit Behavior (ACB)? - Roland U.S. Blog

Quote:
By combining the analyzed components in exactly the same manner as the original analog components, detailed characteristics of the original musical instruments emerge and can be reproduced completely.
And

Quote:
(...) we cooperated with the original engineers who designed and developed these iconic instruments. With their expertise, we could ensure that we fully reproduced the ideal state of their creations.
I cannot say if a new 808 sounded like the 08 but I doubt it, and how can you argue with the part in bold in the last quote? You cannot because it was how the creators intended it to sound, presumably.
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