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Roland TR-08 Desktop Synthesizers
Old 18th February 2018
  #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jampot View Post
I spoke to a guy at roland, tr-8 is sampled from gold versions of the drum machines. The boutiques they used all different conditioned units to get more general sound found on the released originals for the acb chips....
Sampled you say. I'd stop listening to your Roland friend if I were you.
Old 18th February 2018
  #752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
Sampled you say. I'd stop listening to your Roland friend if I were you.
Lol my bad! Modeled on not sampled for ACB purposes!
Old 18th February 2018
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jampot View Post
Lol my bad! Modeled on not sampled for ACB purposes!
I've heard this but I'm cynical.

There's no way Roland management and the accountants would allow more R&D work when there's perfectly good 12 month old code sitting in the drawer.
Old 18th February 2018
  #754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
I've heard this but I'm cynical.

There's no way Roland management and the accountants would allow more R&D work when there's perfectly good 12 month old code sitting in the drawer.
Well, without being an insider i dunno anyway thats what the roland rep said....
Old 18th February 2018
  #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
There's no way Roland management and the accountants would allow more R&D work when there's perfectly good 12 month old code sitting in the drawer.
Except that it sounds better for whatever reason.
Old 18th February 2018
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
Except that it sounds better for whatever reason.
Perception. I have both and they sound identical when I close my eyes.
Old 18th February 2018
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
Perception. I have both and they sound identical when I close my eyes.
You have both the TR-8 and the TR-08 (or the TR-09)?
Old 18th February 2018
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
You have both the TR-8 and the TR-08?
Yes.
Old 19th February 2018
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
Yes.
I was speaking of the 09 but you say the 8 and the 08 sound identical now I’m on the fence about getting the 08. Hmmmm

So why hold on to one or the other if you have both and they sound identical?
Old 19th February 2018
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
I was speaking of the 09 but you say the 8 and the 08 sound identical now I’m on the fence about getting the 08. Hmmmm

So why hold on to one or the other if you have both and they sound identical?
I also have the TR09.

I purchased the TR8 while on holiday in Japan shortly after it was released so it holds a sentimental place in the studio. I also find it much quicker to work on so it's usually where the track is initially conceived. I then transpose onto the TR08/TR09 once I have a part finalised to allow more ideas on the TR8.

I've posted this a couple times now. Comparison between the TR8 and TR09:
Old 19th February 2018
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
I also have the TR09.

I purchased the TR8 while on holiday in Japan shortly after it was released so it holds a sentimental place in the studio. I also find it much quicker to work on so it's usually where the track is initially conceived. I then transpose onto the TR08/TR09 once I have a part finalised to allow more ideas on the TR8.

I've posted this a couple times now. Comparison between the TR8 and TR09:
That's pretty spot on. You must have spent some time tweaking to perfection?

The demo's I was seeing were more along the lines of this



I think this was one of them that sold me in terms of sound.



Crazy that no one spent any time to tweak them some more? Or maybe they did but in the opposite direction?

In the end it was the 09's form factor that made the sale for me. I liked how small it was as a perfect size for getting ideas down on and for live work. Most of the time I use it to trigger samples when I'm working with x0x beats. Partly why I'm on the fence about getting the TR-08. I think it might end up being a dust collector? I think the 09 might edge out in front out of the two as a x0x midi controller with all the assignable knobs.
Old 20th February 2018
  #762
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choond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
I also have the TR09.

I purchased the TR8 while on holiday in Japan shortly after it was released so it holds a sentimental place in the studio. I also find it much quicker to work on so it's usually where the track is initially conceived. I then transpose onto the TR08/TR09 once I have a part finalised to allow more ideas on the TR8.

I've posted this a couple times now. Comparison between the TR8 and TR09:
Great work Mushy. Though, Sir, I can totally tell them apart. The tr-8 has slight peach bouquet in the upper mid frequencies, with a lingering aftertaste of pepper, detectable around 60hz. You just can't miss it when you're in an altered state

Seriously though, I really like both the Tr-8 and Boutiques, really tough call Aira versus Boutique.
Old 20th February 2018
  #763
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I think only the 09 is different from the TR-8, the 808 sounds the same on both (aside from seq slop)
Old 20th February 2018
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jampot View Post
Lol my bad! Modeled on not sampled for ACB purposes!
I’m still not sure its ACB and not just a big multisampled soundfont inside these things. I mean, why all the RAM inside? AFAIK component modelling is not super demanding of RAM.. So maybe the Roland rep was speaking the truth about ”sampling”
Old 20th February 2018
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
You have both the TR-8 and the TR-08 (or the TR-09)?
I can confirm that the TR-8 and TR-08 808 sounds do sound exactly the same. 100%. Not "close" or "almost the same". Exactly the same.

Though the sequencer of the 08 appears to have a shift compared to the 8. You can notice it when putting both in synth and, for example, listening closely to the cymbal. Probably that's what makes some believe they are different? Shifting drum tracks back and forth can have a rather strong impact on the perception at times.
Old 20th February 2018
  #766
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Tested in this months SOS: Roland TR-08 Rhythm Composer |
Old 20th February 2018
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
That's pretty spot on. You must have spent some time tweaking to perfection?

The demo's I was seeing were more along the lines of this

Crazy that no one spent any time to tweak them some more? Or maybe they did but in the opposite direction?

In the end it was the 09's form factor that made the sale for me. I liked how small it was as a perfect size for getting ideas down on and for live work. Most of the time I use it to trigger samples when I'm working with x0x beats. Partly why I'm on the fence about getting the TR-08. I think it might end up being a dust collector? I think the 09 might edge out in front out of the two as a x0x midi controller with all the assignable knobs.
I haven't even told you the *really* interesting thing about my example. Both loops are identical, with the second one dropped by 1 or 2 db to give the illusion of some change. The same loop is the TR8 for the first two beats and the TR09 for the second two beats (or the other way, I forgot).

As you can hear they are absolutely identical.

No I didn't spend any time whatsoever tweaking them for the result. In truth I don't care about it that much to spend hours tweaking. Besides there's only so much one can do with the handful of tweaking options available.

I think any variances in those videos are simply level driven or the fact the presenters haven't bothered trying to match at all.

In summary, if I wasn't the Pokemon chasing idiot I am I'd be perfectly content with the TR08 but yep, I need to catch em all...
Old 20th February 2018
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
In summary, if I wasn't the Pokemon chasing idiot I am I'd be perfectly content with the TR08 but yep, I need to catch em all...
I'm with you. LOL

I don't have the TR-8 so I might just throw my lot in with the TR-08? I have been scoping the Miami out. I love the dedicated outs but same deal with the sound of it, a little off here and there. I figure if it's like horseshoes and hand grenades aka almost there I might as well save a few bucks and complete a little boutique collection?
Old 20th February 2018
  #769
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However the hats and cymbal on the Acidlab easily outperform those on the recent Roland units, as with six layered high tuned square waves current ACB modeling doesn’t cut it
Old 26th March 2018
  #770
Z6Z
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Anyone who has tuned their TR-08 to match 808 willing to share the tuning settings for each instrument?

Thanks alot!
Old 26th March 2018
  #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c View Post
I’m still not sure its ACB and not just a big multisampled soundfont inside these things. I mean, why all the RAM inside? AFAIK component modelling is not super demanding of RAM.. So maybe the Roland rep was speaking the truth about ”sampling”
If you mean RAM inside the TR-8 then that thing has effects, including Scatter, that need it.

edit: I don't know what's inside the TR-08/09, has anyone taken one apart yet?
Old 26th March 2018
  #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z6Z View Post
Anyone who has tuned their TR-08 to match 808 willing to share the tuning settings for each instrument?

Thanks alot!
Some instruments such as the Hi Hats cannot be matched via tuning as the differences originate elsewhere. And those who can be matched mostly are not equal on all 808s. Surely Roland already did their best centering the controls around the original tunings as good as their modelling does match.
Old 26th March 2018
  #773
I may sell my TT606 and MPC1k for this. I like both, but the tt is limited & the mic is a pain to work with sometimes.
The 08s basically has everything I want in a drum machine.
Old 27th March 2018
  #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
If you mean RAM inside the TR-8 then that thing has effects, including Scatter, that need it.

edit: I don't know what's inside the TR-08/09, has anyone taken one apart yet?
Sure you need RAM for reverb, delay, scatter.. But 512MB of it?!
Old 27th March 2018
  #775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c View Post
Sure you need RAM for reverb, delay, scatter.. But 512MB of it?!
I don't remember it being that high, where did you get that number?

Anyway, TR-8's internal resolution is pretty high (32 bit 96 KHz), and they'll mainly have the OS, sequencer, 11 models of unknown complexity, delay, reverb, and scatter loaded onto there. Maybe it does add up, hard to say with so many unknowns.

Having an idea of what's inside the Boutique drum machines and TR-8S could be helpful. I'd expect the Boutiques to have a notch less, the TR-8S a good notch more. Maybe the Cloud 808 can be another useful comparison point too.

Someone teardown all those things for me
Old 27th March 2018
  #776
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I think the TR-8 used 2 of the older Roland ESC2 DSP’s that were also used with the superNATURAL physical modeling engine that uses multi-sampled PCM waves.

It probably had the amount of memory required for comparable a ROMpler.

The Boutiques running at 96k probably use the same FPGA’s as the System-8, which is labeled “EMC” in the Teardown video.
Old 28th March 2018
  #777
Got me a TR-08 incoming tomorrow!! Was thinking about a tr8s but i just want a drum machine that does the one job it was built for.
Old 28th March 2018
  #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jampot View Post
Got me a TR-08 incoming tomorrow!! Was thinking about a tr8s but i just want a drum machine that does the one job it was built for.
Just grabbed one myself, and really like it.
Old 29th March 2018
  #779
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3rk View Post
Just grabbed one myself, and really like it.
Solid!! I love my tr-09 too now i’ll have both pure joy
Old 29th March 2018
  #780
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The 08 has arrived here too. I'm with people that mention the workflow. I've never had an original but I totally get as to why this format became so popular not to mention the tones. It's a dream to program and keeps it fresh. I'm hoping Roland adds a few more in this form factor. I really like the small footprint and easy workflow.
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