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Roland TR-08 Desktop Synthesizers
Old 22nd August 2017
  #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidgit View Post
I'm always amazed how some individuals (often they are designated as experts or climate scientists - I'm not refering to you personally, Eigenwert) can predict the temperature raise in about 80 years time and at the same time they are unable to forecast the weather or the temperature a handful of days in advance.
If something is told and repeated over and over again, people tend to believe it and take it for granted, right?!
Came for the drum machine debate, stayed for the climate change smackdown.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #452
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I primarily see this as a replacement for the endless sample Libraries that's probably a little bit enjoyable rather than tedious.

It's a pain in the ass to click, scroll, and audition from 200+ different 1-shot samples that are already colored and processed in an unknown number of ways, and then getting those to somehow sit in a mix with your own processing and FX. The sounds seem to be described as flat and dull from what I can tell from the sound complaints. Flat and dull is really an ideal starting point if you want to make something truly yours with software. It's 1/10 the cost of an original with the sound about 90% there, which gives you 10% wiggle room so that the rest of gearslutz doesn't immediately whine about overused sounds, all while talking about how bad they want original MiniMoogs and Jupiter-8's

You know what else is overdone? Acoustic drum sets! This can fill that role, and for many styles, samples of it already have.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #453
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Diametro's Avatar
 

"Plot idea: 97% of the world's scientists contrive an environmental crisis, but are exposed by a plucky band of billionaires & oil companies."
Old 22nd August 2017
  #454
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Acid Hazard's Avatar
808 = Overpriced Hipster drum machine. 4 grand for a stupid drum machine. ********.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #455
Gear Guru
Would you rather it be an overpriced country music drum machine ?
Old 22nd August 2017
  #456
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
I want a real 808.. who doesn't..? never wanted a 909 tho..

incredible how much you can do with that one drum machine..
Old 22nd August 2017
  #457
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xanax's Avatar
Screw One 808.. I'll take 3!!!



Old 22nd August 2017
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I want a real 808.. who doesn't..? never wanted a 909 tho..

incredible how much you can do with that one drum machine..
Hmmm, maybe I'll try giving this delusional 808 some of my antipsychotics, see if that makes it real...
Old 22nd August 2017
  #459
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cogsy's Avatar
 

Only Roland would release a VA drum machine (in a truly appalling color scheme) with two models, then a few years later split it into two different individual boxes, give them a a nice classic palette, run them through the machine from Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, then have the gall to charge 70% of the original retail price for each of them.

I've been waiting to buy a drum machine, and when I saw the TR08, I thought to myself, "Hey, it might be fun to buy both of these little boxes." Then I realized it would cost $700 REAL AMERICAN DOLLARS for two micro machine groove boxes. Never change, Roland, never change...
Old 22nd August 2017
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
Would you rather it be an overpriced country music drum machine ?
i think a lot of them country folks would buy it, especially if it came with a dolly parton preset.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #461
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
if someone really wants something, they figure out how to do it. is saving a few grand really that difficult?
Well yes. I would have trouble saving up for one of these boxes even.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogsy View Post
Only Roland would release a VA drum machine (in a truly appalling color scheme) with two models, then a few years later split it into two different individual boxes, give them a a nice classic palette, run them through the machine from Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, then have the gall to charge 70% of the original retail price for each of them.

I've been waiting to buy a drum machine, and when I saw the TR08, I thought to myself, "Hey, it might be fun to buy both of these little boxes." Then I realized it would cost $700 REAL AMERICAN DOLLARS for two micro machine groove boxes. Never change, Roland, never change...
i think it was originally around the 900 mark...
?

the thing about people demanding 'innovations', and not 'rehashes' is that
these were innovations it would be hard to top. you can get an innovation
that changes the world, and an innovation everyone forgets immediately.

why do we think these don't reproduce the original sound and feel enough?
did they fail with the coding and modelling, or it 44.1khz not enough to
capture the hihats/clap/snare? - or are we just getting this impression
from the youtube vids and sound? potentially these could be, ought to be
brilliant. what are people feeling about the tr09?

and can't firmware updates be issues later? if i was designing something
like this, after the fact of the old ones, i would have something under
the bonnet offering a bit of tonal tweaking. same with the other boutiques.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourfourfun View Post
Well yes. I would have trouble saving up for one of these boxes even.
I would love to have an Aston Martin DB Vantage, but I live within my means.

Would also have loved to own an original 909, but the TR-09 is 1/10th the cost and is 98% there for me. Plus extra features like USB audio, tuning, gain and compression. Does me just fine, and I'm sure the TR-08 will also make a lot of people very happy.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #464
Gear Addict
 

i have hard time to collect money for roland mx-1, im not a musician, it is just for me and kids to jam when we have time, blinky909 can you buy it for me, please?
Old 22nd August 2017
  #465
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandmonkey View Post

why do we think these don't reproduce the original sound and feel enough?
did they fail with the coding and modelling, or it 44.1khz not enough to
capture the hihats/clap/snare? - or are we just getting this impression
from the youtube vids and sound? potentially these could be, ought to be
brilliant. what are people feeling about the tr09?

and can't firmware updates be issues later? if i was designing something
like this, after the fact of the old ones, i would have something under
the bonnet offering a bit of tonal tweaking. same with the other boutiques.
It's the code, it's as simple as that. Not only do they have to try and model the original, but have to do it within the processing power and memory they have available to them to hit a market price point.

I mean the originals have free running oscillators for example, which is why every single 909 closed hi-hat sounds different ... the oscillator is at a different phase each time it is started. It's very difficult to model that original analogue circuit in digital hardware, never mind account for temperature, humidity differences etc and the electrical resistance that rust and patina builds up on the tracks over time.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #466
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex.G View Post
i have hard time to collect money for roland mx-1, im not a musician, it is just for me and kids to jam when we have time, blinky909 can you buy it for me, please?
go upstairs and ask you mum
Old 22nd August 2017
  #467
Gear Addict
 

we dont have strairs and mum&dad are not living with us, that is why you are my last chance
Old 22nd August 2017
  #468
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Go easy Blinky - the poor kid can't even afford stairs, never mind a six thousand dollar drum machine.

This thread has been AWESOME for talking the price of our gear up
Old 22nd August 2017
  #469
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cogsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by islandmonkey View Post
i think it was originally around the 900 mark...
?

the thing about people demanding 'innovations', and not 'rehashes' is that
these were innovations it would be hard to top. you can get an innovation
that changes the world, and an innovation everyone forgets immediately.

why do we think these don't reproduce the original sound and feel enough?
did they fail with the coding and modelling, or it 44.1khz not enough to
capture the hihats/clap/snare? - or are we just getting this impression
from the youtube vids and sound? potentially these could be, ought to be
brilliant. what are people feeling about the tr09?

and can't firmware updates be issues later? if i was designing something
like this, after the fact of the old ones, i would have something under
the bonnet offering a bit of tonal tweaking. same with the other boutiques.
My frustration with Roland is that their products are always one unforgivable flaw away from being a nice purchase.


If these were the same price but slightly bigger, no brainer. If they were the same size but cheaper, no brainer. If they were the same size and price, but analog, no brainer. These look fun, but when I played with the TR09 in store, I couldn't get over how small it was.

Their VA tech is good enough for a drum machine IMHO (but I'd never buy another VA synth from them), so I won't fault them there. As to long term happiness, I'll defer to my local Craigslist, where I could go out any day of the week and get a TR8 for $300.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #470
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
It's the code, it's as simple as that. Not only do they have to try and model the original, but have to do it within the processing power and memory they have available to them to hit a market price point.

I mean the originals have free running oscillators for example, which is why every single 909 closed hi-hat sounds different ... the oscillator is at a different phase each time it is started.
The hi-hats on the 909 are analog?
Old 22nd August 2017
  #471
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Old 22nd August 2017
  #472
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cogsy View Post
Their VA tech is good enough for a drum machine IMHO (but I'd never buy another VA synth from them)
Do you mean you would buy a non-Roland VA synth? From my limited perspective of not owning any VA synths, it seems Roland do it as well as anyone else ... no?

Out of anything I'd buy VA it would probably be a poly synth.... but I too got burned by the TB3 thus not that interested in getting any more Aira gear after that one. Never say never though...
Old 22nd August 2017
  #473
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogsy View Post
I'll defer to my local Craigslist, where I could go out any day of the week and get a TR8 for $300.
i wish i have spare 300
Old 22nd August 2017
  #474
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cogsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
Do you mean you would buy a non-Roland VA synth? From my limited perspective of not owning any VA synths, it seems Roland do it as well as anyone else ... no?

Out of anything I'd buy VA it would probably be a poly synth.... but I too got burned by the TB3 thus not that interested in getting any more Aira gear after that one. Never say never though...
I'd say Nord does the best VA. Smooth filters, brassy oscillators, and nice effects. I sold my NLA1, and I miss certain things that it did really well. My Roland Gaia I do not miss at all. Sampled oscillators, penny-whistle resonance, terrible effects. The System 8, their flagship VA, sounded cold to me every time I demoed it, either presets or rolling my own sounds. Every Roland VA I've ever tried has that same grating resonance sound.

I think VA synths are designed to hit certain sounds, but they miss sounds outside of that range. To answer your question, I probably wouldn't buy another VA synth, but I'd consider a VA drum machine. A DM has a narrow enough scope of sound that they can get close enough for everything.
Old 22nd August 2017
  #475
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Raddler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Hazard View Post
808 = Overpriced Hipster drum machine. 4 grand for a stupid drum machine. ********.
Leave the 808 out of this
Old 22nd August 2017
  #476
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogsy View Post
then have the gall to charge 70% of the original retail price for each of them.
Brand new the original TR-808 would have set you back almost 10x the cost of the TR-08 in 2017 US dollars factoring inflation in.

Also Roland is charging only 30% to the T of the original price. The 808's list price was $1195 out of the gate.

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc...1&year2=201707
Old 22nd August 2017
  #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidgit View Post
Feel free to have a go yourself - without just repeating what you've been told.
A critical, thoughtful discussion is never wrong. Definitely better than taking everything for granted, as soon as it's repeated often enough.
You might enjoy reading Chaos by James Gleik - it could give you some insight into the fairly complex mathematics, but simple concept behind why people don't take these complex systems and the ability to predict them for granted. It's a well written introduction available here

Old 23rd August 2017
  #478
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GeminIAm's Avatar
This thread has been brilliant for exposing twats. My ignore list is growing by the day.

OT I really like the TR08. Individual outs don't bother me, and the size is perfect for me. Even if you gave me an actual 808 I wouldn't have anywhere to put it.

Not a fan of the minijack out, and despise the micro usb port as only means to connect power. I'd run it straight into the USB port if I could but running out of free ones!

I can see me picking up a used one at some point, once the novelty has worn off for people
Old 23rd August 2017
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
Go easy Blinky - the poor kid can't even afford stairs, never mind a six thousand dollar drum machine.
Take it easy dude......have you seen the price of stairs recently.
Old 23rd August 2017
  #480
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VennD68's Avatar
Ok,
I went to the Toronto Boutique launch last night.
The TR-08 wasn't high on my radar but here's why I left feeling impressed by it.

1.It sounds better than the TR8 version - I own one and the difference is indeed discernible.

2.Operationally it is pretty much a 1:1 copy right down to they way voices can be edited (for example no Kick detune etc etc).

3.The sequencer Allows for Pattern A to have two patterns (one being its own variation) you can switch between P1 or P2 or have them play sequentially. This holds true for Pattern B so you can in effect get a single pattern to Run A - Part 1 into 2 into Part B into Part 1 into 2 - you also get the toggle switch for Pattern A / Pattern and/or Both. So four bar patterns are a doddle on this unit.

4.The Fill function gives four separately programmed fill options for patterns A & B and their P1/P2 counter patterns it's as easy as hitting the tap write button and the fill you want and it will play and then seq back to the original pattern

5.Swing in +/- amount (global) but the swing also affects the trigger out track so you could clock a Juno 6 ARP for example in funky ways or a SH101 sequencer and have it track with perfect swing.

6.Under hood you get COMP for the snare and kick but also have a slew of gain functions that allow you to alter the gain stage of any drum part and/or its velocity curve / vca envelope curve to closely tune it to the sound of a real 808 you may be comparing it to or using it with.

7.It sends Din + USB Midi

8.It will send all voices as audio tracks into your DAW for the kind of multi-output per voice processing you'd do on a real 808.

9.The Trig track is it's own independent part so unlike on an 808 you don't need to sacrifice an instrument part for the trigger out. You also get Trigger Out patterns for A/B - P1/P2 and for the Fill sections too. When not using conventional 16th note trigs and actually programming dynamically variant patterns you can get some wildly funky stuff going on with the 03/01A/SE02 or any analog synth with that kind of trigger input.

10.There are no kits - how the front panel is set is how it will sound on very pattern (exactly like an 808) and you get a song mode for chaining patterns.

Why I would now consider it - it sounds better and more authentic than the TR-8 808 kit. It has far more open ended programming options, it means I can use a dedicated 808 that behaves like the original and still have access to my favourite mix of 909/707/606 sounds on the TR8 to mix how I see fit.

Lastly it has zero bell and whistle effects, scatter etc and narrows the working focus down to its nuts and bolts.

Your mileage may vary but it certainly sounds great over a good quality PA.
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