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Roland TR-08 Desktop Synthesizers
Old 12th August 2017
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staticbuster View Post
Hadn't seen this posted yet...an A/B comparison starts around the 3:35 mark...

This video only exposes how it doesn't like a real 808. There's a massive difference in sound.
Old 12th August 2017
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rids View Post

I think it's fair to say that everyone knows that video is crap by now and most likely no where near how the TR-08 actually is. The level and sound matching is all over the place; obviously programmed insanely bad.
He's not a professional sales man. Apart from the mismatched levels in the comparison part, there is nothing there to suggest that the vid not indicative of how the Tr-08 actually is and how people would use it in the real world. This is a guy who popularised the use of the 808 in modern electronic music cut him some slack.

The vintage 808 definitely sounds rawer, punchier and grittier. Its more than a difference in levels there is no getting around that. You can take audio and level match in any DAW if you don't agree with that consensus.
Old 12th August 2017
  #333
Quote:
Originally Posted by rids View Post
I think this is the only opportunity you'll have for an 808 remake.
Not trying to argue with you but...I'm sure people thought this way when the Aira TR-8 came out...I mean just sayin'...
Old 12th August 2017
  #334
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choond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
Question for studio use. Can't someone just come up with the beats using stereo outs as a guide and when ready dump each instrument to a separate track?
Yes I'd prefer Individual outputs too, but kind of got over it when I bought my tr-09. Its a lot cheaper than Acidlabs gear and its a very good 909 drum synth, that operates like the original.

It is nice to mess around with individual outs into a big desk with lots of pedals. But I admit that the main way (productive) producers used these classic drum machines in the 90's was to sample them into multimbral samplers, and apply effects and filters in the sampler - Remembering that some of these drum machines (and synths from the era) didn't have midi and latency was all over the shop.

The sampler's Individual outs could be run into a mixer , everything was nice and tight timing wise done this way.

Now computers are the samplers, and computers are powerful enough to run long audio tracks not just samples of hits and midi.

I'm ok working either way.
Old 12th August 2017
  #335
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by choond View Post
Yes I'd prefer Individual outputs too, but kind of got over it when I bought my tr-09. Its a lot cheaper than Acidlabs gear and its a very good 909 drum synth, that operates like the original.

It is nice to mess around with individual outs into a big desk with lots of pedals. But I admit that the main way (productive) producers used these classic drum machines in the 90's was to sample them into multimbral samplers, and apply effects and filters in the sampler - Remembering that some of these drum machines (and synths from the era) didn't have midi and latency was all over the shop.

The sampler's Individual outs could be run into a mixer , everything was nice and tight timing wise done this way.

Now computers are the samplers, and computers are powerful enough to run long audio tracks not just samples of hits and midi.

I'm ok working either way.
Preach. I am very excited about the TR-08. I am super glad Roland did this and kept it affordable.
Old 12th August 2017
  #336
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
if you always wanted one, why do you not already have it?
You may be surprised but most people on this planet cannot afford everything they want.
Old 12th August 2017
  #337
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xanax's Avatar
FWIW i bought the TR8 when it first came out and could tell within minutes it just couldn't hold the weight of my OG 808 when doing A/B comparisons in the studio. It sounded brittle & fake quite frankly, and no amount of tweaking could get it remotely close to the OG 808. Even my cheap little 606 had more mojo imo. I sold it shortly after..

I'm hearing the same exact differences here in the Egyptian Lover demo. Pretty sure TR-08 is a direct copy/paste of the TR8 emu.

Those that think it's a level/tuning issue have rose tinted vision.

I think Roland did cool things with the SH-01A adding polyphony, chord memory, presets etc.. plus it sounds rather close.

But honestly I'm quite disappointed with TR-08, Roland could have made a better sounding emulation. Not only that but they could have also enhanced the sequencer with more pattern storage , the original 16x2 is quite a bit of a limitation today. I also assume they didn't add pattern chaining (a la 606/707/909).. If you add the micro form factor and lack of proper outputs, I really don't see much benefit in choosing this over let's say even a TR8..
Old 12th August 2017
  #338
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
This video only exposes how it doesn't like a real 808. There's a massive difference in sound.
Mentioned in an earlier post he probably has them set at equal gain at the interface but likely an impedance difference yields the contrast in volume.
Old 12th August 2017
  #339
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
Those that think it's a level/tuning issue have rose tinted vision.
I hope you're wrong. They have a lot at stake and it would be very cool to have a mini me version that was close in tone and functionality.
Old 12th August 2017
  #340
Deleted User 
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I agree that if it is similar to the TR8, which I find very likely, then it will lack the weight, depth of the original (as indicated by all the vids so far). I still have light GAS for the 09 and 08 because they do look very nice and I imagine running them through e.g Heat would make them sound much better.

Anyone have any experience of a cheaper solution (pedal perhaps) for adding grit and mojo to the TR09 (and 08 when released)?
Old 12th August 2017
  #341
Gear Maniac
I bet running the 08 and 09 through the vinyl sim on my SP404 will be good enough
Old 12th August 2017
  #342
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
I still have light GAS for the 09 and 08 because they do look very nice and I imagine running them through e.g Heat would make them sound much better.

Anyone have any experience of a cheaper solution (pedal perhaps) for adding grit and mojo to the TR09?
The 09 sounds almost identical to the 909, if you had to add effects to make it sound better maybe a 09/909 is not going to be your cup of tea?
Old 12th August 2017
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
The 09 sounds almost identical to the 909, if you had to add effects to make it sound better maybe a 09/909 is not going to be your cup of tea?
Almost... so not fully there. When you have listened to the classics (with and without processing) so much ~5% can make it go from alright to balling. I am not the only one, dataline has a Heat for his tr09, would you also say the 909 sound is not what he is looking for because of it?
Old 12th August 2017
  #344
This has been said a couple times but I bet you it's true. I bet you there's some stock gain/compression running that you actually have to turn off -- but the unit ships with the setting in the 'on' position .

That's the only explanation I can find for the snare an open hat sound -- they just sound frizzled and indistinct - in all the demos. Not just with the Egyptian lover -- he gets mad respect no matter what.

Maybe there's a couple menu diving tricks that release the open hat and snare to breathe a little bit more -- they just sound strangled right now in the demos I've heard so far.

With all this said I stand by my position that this is a really cool little box, and a lot of people are gonna have a lot of fun with it.

I hope that it is not the same emu as the TR8 ... because for me the boutique 09 sounded better than the 909 in the Aira. Hopefully it's the same here where they've improved it a lot since the TR8.

But do you know, we're complicated human beings and what we see affects what we hear. I'm just so relieved to see the correct color scheme



proftea
Old 12th August 2017
  #345
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jazzcabbage's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Tea View Post
That's the only explanation I can find for the snare an open hat sound -- they just sound frizzled and indistinct - in all the demos. Not just with the Egyptian lover -- he gets mad respect no matter what.
Listen to the cowbell comparison starting at 3:40. When he switches back and forth between the 08 and the 808 it goes up and down what almost sounds like a full octave.
Old 12th August 2017
  #346
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horseface's Avatar
Just to correct people thinking compression is on as a default - TR-09 has a compression setting of 0-100 and the default it OFF, or 0.
Old 12th August 2017
  #347
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
Just to correct people thinking compression is on as a default - TR-09 has a compression setting of 0-100 and the default it OFF, or 0.
Sure no prob, but we don't know the defaults on TR08 - I am just hypothesizing why those sounds *might* sound off even in the hands of experienced demonstrators.

When more people can tweak the TR08s controls we'll find out ...
Old 13th August 2017
  #348
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horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Tea View Post
Sure no prob, but we don't know the defaults on TR08 - I am just hypothesizing why those sounds *might* sound off even in the hands of experienced demonstrators.

When more people can tweak the TR08s controls we'll find out ...
No worries. Let's wait until there are some good demos.

Unfortunately, I think Mr Lover's demo got a little rushed out by the local DJ store he's helping out - From his 'Buy the TR-08 here' Facebook posts of late, I think he's getting commission or something.
Old 13th August 2017
  #349
Wonder what it is that makes the TR-08 cheaper than the TR-09? There's a $50 price difference in US prices...I assume pricing is similar all over?
Old 13th August 2017
  #350
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Thomann has it available for preorder at 409€ and 385€ for the TR09.
Old 13th August 2017
  #351
^Intersting. MF/GC still list TR-09 at $399 while TR-08 is pre-order at $349.
Old 13th August 2017
  #352
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Eigenwert's Avatar
The prices are just based on what marketing survey found out a local crowd is willing to pay. For example the list price of the TB-03 and the TR-09 were the same in the US when they became available while the 09's list price was much higher then the 03's list price in the EU, at the same time.
Old 13th August 2017
  #353
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kuroichi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcabbage View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof_Tea View Post
That's the only explanation I can find for the snare an open hat sound -- they just sound frizzled and indistinct - in all the demos. Not just with the Egyptian lover -- he gets mad respect no matter what.
Listen to the cowbell comparison starting at 3:40. When he switches back and forth between the 08 and the 808 it goes up and down what almost sounds like a full octave.
Those kinds of tuning differences can be found in different 808s. Technicians sometimes change it during a service for example. Similarly the TR-909 Kick can often be different between machines. My 909's kick is different to my previous TR-909, and is a totally different pitch to the TR-8's 909 kick. That being said, I often find that in the emulations they change subtle things like this, and it seems to be intentional. Not so bad with the 808 kicks where you can fully tune the sounds, but as the 909 kick's pitch cant be changed (on the TR-8, like the 909 - 'Tune', doesnt equate to pitch) it stands out like a sore thumb as you can't match the two.

The comparison with Egyptian Lover is simply a poor comparison (no ones fault in particular). I imagine the TR-08 can get a lot closer than what it like sounds here. However, it probably wont sound completely the same, or as 'natural' as the real thing. The sound of the aira boxes seems to be aiming for 'as clean as possible', without straying from the original sound too much. That isn't a bad thing necessarily. But there is something that they definitely cant seem to capture in these new emulations. Whether or not it shows up in a mix depends on how you mix, which isn't good or bad really, just different.
Old 13th August 2017
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
I could never stomach a musical purchase over 500$ in my first 20 years of music. Ive done pretty well with it so far but I often wish I had bigger pants back in the beginning and Ive just never had a lot of money despite working very hard. That is the way she goes and I'm not mopey at all, its just the truth.

And so the current price of the 808 is still out of my price range. If anyone wants to sell, PM me, but its probably too much.
why don't you just get a yocto, of course it's not roland and DIY, but it's as close as you can get to the tr808 without spending 3k..
@cowbell, sticking to the service manual, the cowbell should be tuned at 540 and 800 hertz (2 trimmers for setting the frequencies of the 2 oscillators). one can easily check these frequencies in a simple spectrum analyzer in a daw.. I noticed that a lot of tr808s seem to be tuned lower, I don't know if it's due to tech work or if there has been another revision of the 808 service manual where the cowbell tuning is specified lower.
Old 13th August 2017
  #355
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SonicBern's Avatar
 

Looks dam cute...
Old 13th August 2017
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decoder23 View Post
why don't you just get a yocto, of course it's not roland and DIY, but it's as close as you can get to the tr808 without spending 3k..
@cowbell, sticking to the service manual, the cowbell should be tuned at 540 and 800 hertz (2 trimmers for setting the frequencies of the 2 oscillators). one can easily check these frequencies in a simple spectrum analyzer in a daw.. I noticed that a lot of tr808s seem to be tuned lower, I don't know if it's due to tech work or if there has been another revision of the 808 service manual where the cowbell tuning is specified lower.

There's also the 8Raw8 which is basically an 808 midi drum voice module without the sequencer. However, it's analog and the sound is very close to the real 808.

Also, I wonder when that System 80 eurorack module is coming out.

Isn't Behringer also developing an analog 808 and 909 clone?
Old 13th August 2017
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
The prices are just based on what marketing survey found out a local crowd is willing to pay. For example the list price of the TB-03 and the TR-09 were the same in the US when they became available while the 09's list price was much higher then the 03's list price in the EU, at the same time.
TR-09 is listed at $399 USD
TB-03 is listed at $349 USD

Those were always the list prices from the beginning.

With all the extra controls, you'd think that the SH-01A would cost more than the TB-03, but maybe this shows the TB-03/TR-09 are probably $50 overpriced. Also manufacturing could be cheaper now since they probably are using the same chips internally.
Old 13th August 2017
  #358
Quote:
Originally Posted by bioroid View Post
TR-09 is listed at $399 USD
TB-03 is listed at $349 USD

Those were always the list prices from the beginning.

With all the extra controls, you'd think that the SH-01A would cost more than the TB-03, but maybe this shows the TB-03/TR-09 are probably $50 overpriced. Also manufacturing could be cheaper now since they probably are using the same chips internally.
I thought the TB-03 (£349) was overpriced compared to the JU-06 (£249) which is why I never bought it. Bought two MB-33s instead (£100 each and analog!) to sequence from my Engine :-)
Old 14th August 2017
  #359
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mamero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvmoore View Post
Isn't Behringer also developing an analog 808 and 909 clone?
Seeing as Roland recently shut down Propeller Head's ReBirth due to intellectual property infringement a Behringer clone is HIGHLY unlikely.

I suppose Behringer could arrange a licensing agreement with Roland but I'd be less surprised to see an authentic tr-808 reissue from Roland (which would be beyond very surprising) than a licensing agreement with Behringer.

Last edited by mamero; 15th August 2017 at 04:02 AM..
Old 14th August 2017
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamero View Post
Seeing as Roland recently shut down Propeller Head's ReBirth due to intellectual property infringement a Behringer clone is HIGHLY unlikely.

I suppose Behringer could arrange a licensing agreement with Roland but I'd be less surprised to an authentic tr-808 reissue from Roland (which would be beyond very surprising) than a licensing agreement with Behringer.
Behringer can clone the circuits and whatnot, don't think they're protected anymore, though I believe they'll have to provide their own samples for the 909. It's more the looks and name and such that they'll have to change to not tread on Roland's IP.
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