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anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 20th December 2016
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTBatmaN View Post
The Vermona Perfourmer Mk2 sounds way cleaner, less dirty in comparisation - it reminds me of the Roland sound although it also has transistor-ladder filters built in
Nothing clean or less dirty about the Vermona Perfourmer mkii

As for filter topology, the thing about the Vermona filter is that when the resonance is anywhere between 0% - 60% it sounds moog-ish, but when you crank it further it starts to get chirpy like old rolands.
Old 20th December 2016
  #182
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXode View Post
I find all this talk about the OB8 in particular quite funny. Tom Oberheim himself (supposedly) said that the OB-8 was too perfect and lacked the earlier models grit, which is kind of ironic when you think about it in the context of this discussion.
all relative though, isn't it? compared to the new stuff it's leaps and bounds better sounding. i'm not pushing my views, just sharing my experience.
tradeoff is stability, which i'd rather have over the (imo) marginal sonic gains the ob-x and ob-xa yield. my good mate has both the x and xa for many years now and they've spent majority of that time in the shop. sound great, but not that much better.
Old 20th December 2016
  #183
Gear Nut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPtYpjUWujM

On this comparison of the OB6 to the OBXa if I close the browser window and just listen to the sounds I can't tell a noticeable difference between 2, or tell them apart. Or the differences are due to one filter being slightly more open than the other. When I hear one that I think sounds more modern, its actually the vintage one haha! I think it's more the look of the actual board than, any huge sound differences.
Old 20th December 2016
  #184
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My Cs-40m was in storage for 20+ years before it made the move East from Halifax to Sarnia. nary a scratch, or fingerprint. Just needs some TLC.
It can put my Blofelds, MS-20Ks and Montribes to shame!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wMACKY View Post

But, frankly, I was even more underwhelmed at the prospect of paying collector prices for beat up, worn out electronics with 30 years of accumulated finger grease and sweat. Buying an old synth is more like buying and old VCR then buying a vintage Strat. I was willing settle for a 10% sound difference to avoid those issues. For me, close enough was close enough.......
Old 20th December 2016
  #185
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Old 20th December 2016
  #186
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Old 20th December 2016
  #187
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This was such an amazing thread. I feel like a better person now.
Old 20th December 2016
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
This was such an amazing thread. I feel like a better person now.
The thread itself is fine, the problem is when people take someone else's preference for the sound of old synths as a personal insult against their own new gear, and against themselves.

So what if someone wants to discuss their preference of the sound of vintage synths over modern synths?

They are not trying to force anything onto you, not trying to change the way you feel about anything, and are not making judgments about you due to the gear you own.

I don't really understand why people get so worked up at the thought of someone preferring an old synth and discussing it here.

Why is it that people have to like the new gear, and are not allowed to prefer and discuss any preferences for old gear? Has the modern corporate marketing machine got you so brainwashed with marketing hype that you always have to have the next new disposable thing, which will soon need to be replaced in the next trade show hype cycle, when it is then past it's marketing use-by-date?
Old 20th December 2016
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Owners of modern polys, who don't own vintage polys, don't want to be told, and don't want to accept, that the synths they have spent their hard earned $ on generally don't sound as good as the vintage polys.
Old 20th December 2016
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
The thread itself is fine, the problem is when people take someone else's preference for the sound of old synths as a personal insult against their own new gear, and against themselves.

So what if someone wants to discuss their preference of the sound of vintage synths over modern synths?

They are not trying to force anything onto you, not trying to change the way you feel about anything, and are not making judgments about you due to the gear you own.

I don't really understand why people get so worked up at the thought of someone preferring an old synth and discussing it here.

Why is it that people have to like the new gear, and are not allowed to prefer and discuss any preferences for old gear? Has the modern corporate marketing machine got you so brainwashed with marketing hype that you always have to have the next new disposable thing, which will soon need to be replaced in the next trade show hype cycle, when it is then past it's marketing use-by-date?
That's what I said. This an amazing thread. I love listening to people talk about vintage vs modern and analog vs digital. Very stimulating stuff.
Old 20th December 2016
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
This was such an amazing thread. I feel like a better person now.
Was!? It's over?

Old 20th December 2016
  #192
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Hate to post such ironic garbage...but....
Attached Thumbnails
anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths?-1gbspk.jpg  
Old 20th December 2016
  #193
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Nothing clean or less dirty about the Vermona Perfourmer mkii

As for filter topology, the thing about the Vermona filter is that when the resonance is anywhere between 0% - 60% it sounds moog-ish, but when you crank it further it starts to get chirpy like old rolands.
I have both, like you, and by cleaner I mean less saturated, less distorted.
The 002's drive parameter is just brutal if you want it to be, the Perfourmer sounds buttery smooth in comparisation. Yes it can do crazy FM-stuff, but if I think "vintage", I think of the 002 first.
Old 21st December 2016
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Why is it that people have to like the new gear, and are not allowed to prefer and discuss any preferences for old gear? Has the modern corporate marketing machine got you so brainwashed with marketing hype that you always have to have the next new disposable thing, which will soon need to be replaced in the next trade show hype cycle, when it is then past it's marketing use-by-date?
Maybe because when someone posts a track showing off a new synth they bought and how good, warm and pretty darn close to some old established song it is, the vintage lovers will pounce and say, "It's not even close." Even if "not even close" often actually is. Let me state the way things actually are.

"Modular is the way it's really done." Right on.

"Nothing is as musical as an old vintage synth." Of course.

"Modern analogs are as valid as anything." I agree.

"You can make superb music, even fooling people, with a good VA." Very true.

"You can use soft synths to emulate almost any synth imaginable." That's right.

Of course agreeing with all these statements would take away a lot of talking points and kill a lot of well debated topics. And I do like these debates, as long as they stay civil and refrain from hardline defensiveness. If more people loved everything like I do, and wouldn't go out of their way to turn up their noses at one position or another, this would be such a happier place.
Old 21st December 2016
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
The thread itself is fine, the problem is when people take someone else's preference for the sound of old synths as a personal insult against their own new gear, and against themselves.

So what if someone wants to discuss their preference of the sound of vintage synths over modern synths?

They are not trying to force anything onto you, not trying to change the way you feel about anything, and are not making judgments about you due to the gear you own.

I don't really understand why people get so worked up at the thought of someone preferring an old synth and discussing it here.

Why is it that people have to like the new gear, and are not allowed to prefer and discuss any preferences for old gear? Has the modern corporate marketing machine got you so brainwashed with marketing hype that you always have to have the next new disposable thing, which will soon need to be replaced in the next trade show hype cycle, when it is then past it's marketing use-by-date?
I think it's a bit disingenuous to complain about someone putting down older synths (have they, beyond stating their preference and reasons?) and then go on to trash them for being slaves to some product cycle.

There are many reasons to prefer old to new, or vise versa. All the arguments are valid. An instrument is so personal. Why is that hard to understand? If anything, I think there is more scorn coming from the vintage fans. I imagine it's because they paid a higher price for their synth and if it were to get stolen or destroyed it would be magnitudes harder to replace. The venom aimed at modern synth fans seems more about convincing themselves that the price they pay is worth it. I'm sure some of the barbs slung at the vintage fans stems from jealousy. If you convince yourself the things you can't afford are crap, you need not covet them. I do this a bit too.
Old 21st December 2016
  #196
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Honestly, my only real fear in any of this is that one of my beloved older instruments will be gone forever, in some fashion. As it will be, but hopefully after I'm dead. But anyways, the joy of the new, and the fear of the vintage anoraks, only comes in the reassuring thought that there is something freshly out with a warranty that will replace grandpa when he dies, and last as long as he did, RIP.

In other words, saying, "it's nothing like" is actually an expression of fear of impending, permanent loss, a reflection of the angst associated with the awareness that all in this world is transitory, nothing is permanent, and that which you love will some day be gone.

So, be kind to vintage fans; respect their anticipatory mourning.
Old 21st December 2016
  #197
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Honestly, my only real fear in any of this is that one of my beloved older instruments will be gone forever, in some fashion. As it will be, but hopefully after I'm dead. But anyways, the joy of the new, and the fear of the vintage anoraks, only comes in the reassuring thought that there is something freshly out with a warranty that will replace grandpa when he dies, and last as long as he did, RIP.

In other words, saying, "it's nothing like" is actually an expression of fear of impending, permanent loss, a reflection of the angst associated with the awareness that all in this world is transitory, nothing is permanent, and that which you love will some day be gone.

So, be kind to vintage fans; respect their anticipatory mourning.
Hey cut that out! It's depressing.
Old 21st December 2016
  #198
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All depends on how you think of it:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poe...s/detail/54563

Time is a river.

Old 21st December 2016
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I think it's a bit disingenuous to complain about someone putting down older synths (have they, beyond stating their preference and reasons?) and then go on to trash them for being slaves to some product cycle.
I am not complaining about them putting down older synths, more about them not wanting someone to say they like the sound of older synths in preference to new synths, and them wanting to shut the conversation down altogether, commenting on the validity of that opinion, when they do say that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
There are many reasons to prefer old to new, or vise versa. All the arguments are valid.
'It sounds better' is more valid, imo, than 'how dare you trash talk the new product I have invested my hard earned money in, you must be trash talking me'.

One argument is about the sound of an instrument, the other is about not having their feelings hurt over someone else's opinion of the instruments they own.

You have others dismissing the difference as so minor you can't really hear it, and you must be imagining it, or that it doesn't matter because the features of the new synth are so much more comprehensive than the old synth, or that if you spent enough time with programming, or with the use of the right external effects, you could make it sound just the same.

Those arguments do not seem very valid to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
An instrument is so personal. Why is that hard to understand?
It is a product that you have purchased, why let someone's opinion of a product upset you, why take it personally, you didn't create that product?

Why make it into an us vs them? The vintage synth lover isn't saying anything about you, they are saying they like the sound of old synths better than new synths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
If anything, I think there is more scorn coming from the vintage fans. I imagine it's because they paid a higher price for their synth and if it were to get stolen or destroyed it would be magnitudes harder to replace. The venom aimed at modern synth fans seems more about convincing themselves that the price they pay is worth it.
There isn't any scorn coming from vintage fans towards the modern synth addict, no venom aimed at modern synth fans, when someone says they like the sound of a vintage synth more than the modern alternatives, that is a figment of the emotionally fragile modern synth addict's imagination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I'm sure some of the barbs slung at the vintage fans stems from jealousy. If you convince yourself the things you can't afford are crap, you need not covet them. I do this a bit too.
There you go, as you admit, barbs slung at vintage fans due to jealousy, feeling the need to convince yourself that other things are crap, over a piece of gear that someone likes the sound of, that is exactly the problem.

Though not sure it is all jealousy, or whether it is a reaction to an opinion about a piece of gear being bizarrely misconstrued as some sort of personal attack.

The vintage synth lover, imo, doesn't have any problem with someone preferring modern synths if they want to, they are just discussing their opinion that they prefer the sound of the vintage synths.
Old 21st December 2016
  #200
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There is a whole lot of delusion going on in this thread. How about those who appreciate vintage and modern who feel vintage purists are silly and closed-minded? Not all vintage synths are more expensive than modern synths. Usually, people own and appreciate both. Can we address what I find most ridiculous about this thread? It's gone on for many pages now, and everyone keeps talking about vintage poly synths. Is there a certain criteria for what we're even talking about? Is a Juno 106 a vintage poly synth? How about the Alpha Juno? Is the Yamaha DX7 a vintage poly synth? How about a Korg Z1? Is the criteria for a synth to be vintage that it has to sound like an OB-8?

I seriously don't even know what we're talking about. I'll usually just read people's opinions on different synths, and garner the insight from their experiences. But when I read a thread with a ridiculous title like "anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths?" .. duh .. I feel compelled to say a couple things.
Old 21st December 2016
  #201
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I will shed some of my thinking on this.
Not all vintage synths were good.
Thinking Siel DK-70 here.
There are modern synths that bite too
(best not mention them).
There are great vintage synths and great modern ones.
pick one or the other or both, or neither.
I tried to be pragmatic.....
Old 21st December 2016
  #202
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
I am not complaining about them putting down older synths, more about them not wanting someone to say they like the sound of older synths in preference to new synths, and them wanting to shut the conversation down altogether, commenting on the validity of that opinion, when they do say that.


'It sounds better' is more valid, imo, than 'how dare you trash talk the new product I have invested my hard earned money in, you must be trash talking me'.

One argument is about the sound of an instrument, the other is about not having their feelings hurt over someone else's opinion of the instruments they own.

You have others dismissing the difference as so minor you can't really hear it, and you must be imagining it, or that it doesn't matter because the features of the new synth are so much more comprehensive than the old synth, or that if you spent enough time with programming, or with the use of the right external effects, you could make it sound just the same.

Those arguments do not seem very valid to me.


It is a product that you have purchased, why let someone's opinion of a product upset you, why take it personally, you didn't create that product?

Why make it into an us vs them? The vintage synth lover isn't saying anything about you, they are saying they like the sound of old synths better than new synths.


There isn't any scorn coming from vintage fans towards the modern synth addict, no venom aimed at modern synth fans, when someone says they like the sound of a vintage synth more than the modern alternatives, that is a figment of the emotionally fragile modern synth addict's imagination.


There you go, as you admit, barbs slung at vintage fans due to jealousy, feeling the need to convince yourself that other things are crap, over a piece of gear that someone likes the sound of, that is exactly the problem.

Though not sure it is all jealousy, or whether it is a reaction to an opinion about a piece of gear being bizarrely misconstrued as some sort of personal attack.

The vintage synth lover, imo, doesn't have any problem with someone preferring modern synths if they want to, they are just discussing their opinion that they prefer the sound of the vintage synths.
See, I am that guy who appreciates both vintage and modern. I think you're not seeing both sides clearly. I see a lot of condescension coming from the vintage side. What I see from the modern side seems to usually be concession that there is a desirable sonic quality to vintage, but choose modern for money, features or reliability reasons.

Remember this thread's title cuts down modern polys. It does not praise vintage. How could you not expect modern polysynth lovers to not get defensive?
Old 21st December 2016
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
See, I am that guy who appreciates both vintage and modern. I think you're not seeing both sides clearly. I see a lot of condescension coming from the vintage side. What I see from the modern side seems to usually be concession that there is a desirable sonic quality to vintage, but choose modern for money, features or reliability reasons.
I own and use both.

I simply don't see the condescension from the vintage side that you do, they just prefer the sound of particular vintage gear over modern gear, they are not attacking the modern synth lover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Remember this thread's title cuts down modern polys. It does not praise vintage. How could you not expect modern polysynth lovers to not get defensive?
Because it is about someone preferring the sound of a vintage synth over modern options, being underwhelmed with modern poly synths.

There is simply no reason for modern polysynth lovers to get defensive about that, and carry on as if they have been personally attacked, which is how it usually seems to me.

It is an opinion about the gear, not a personal attack that needs to be defended.
Old 21st December 2016
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
It is an opinion about the gear, not a personal attack that needs to be defended.
I call it a fallacy that deserves all the ridicule it gets.
Old 21st December 2016
  #205
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
I own and use both.

I simply don't see the condescension from the vintage side that you do, they just prefer the sound of particular vintage gear over modern gear, they are not attacking the modern synth lover.


Because it is about someone preferring the sound of a vintage synth over modern options, being underwhelmed with modern poly synths.

There is simply no reason for modern polysynth lovers to get defensive about that, and carry on as if they have been personally attacked, which is how it usually seems to me.

It is an opinion about the gear, not a personal attack that needs to be defended.
I think we're mostly in agreement here, but why not name the thread "For the love of vintage polys."
Old 21st December 2016
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTBatmaN View Post
I have both, like you, and by cleaner I mean less saturated, less distorted.
The 002's drive parameter is just brutal if you want it to be, the Perfourmer sounds buttery smooth in comparisation. Yes it can do crazy FM-stuff, but if I think "vintage", I think of the 002 first.
To me the 002 (which i also have) is more 80's vintage - while the perfourmer is more 70's vintage.
Comparing the 002 with the drive crancked up isn't really fair. Without it it's quite polite.
Old 21st December 2016
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Someone's opinion that a vintage synth sounds better than modern options is a fallacy, that deserves ridicule?

<Deleted by Moderator>
What is a vintage synth?

Last edited by Synth Guru; 21st December 2016 at 06:17 AM.. Reason: Insults
Old 21st December 2016
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I think we're mostly in agreement here, but why not name the thread "For the love of vintage polys."
Why does it matter what it is called?

Isn't he allowed to be personally 'underwhelmed with modern poly synths', and to have a thread title asking if anyone else is as well, and for that to be discussed?

Really not sure why anyone would take that as a personal attack, as it really isn't, LOL!
Old 21st December 2016
  #209
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Also, I might as well just directly answer the question posed by the thread.

No. I have been impressed and amazed with the sounds produced by the Modal 002, OB-6, and Nord A1 poly synths to name a few.
Old 21st December 2016
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
What is a vintage synth?
To the OP, in particular, he is referring specifically to the OB8, and how it compares to the P6 and P08PE, you know that.

And it depends on each person, what they view as a desirable vintage synth, what they are comparing to modern synths in terms of particular vintage synth models or a particular vintage synth type of sound, is up to the individual.

In the OP he doesn't seem to be attacking anyone, or to be asking unreasonable questions.

All this carrying on about being attacked for liking modern synths, and having to respond defensively, is just a load of BS, stop being such drama queens, LOL!
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