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anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 19th December 2016
  #121
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
If you can't get "there" with an OB6, it seriously puts into question the skill/creativity of the user imo.
Its been 1983 in my house all of the time for the past few months!
Old 19th December 2016
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
If you can't get "there" with an OB6, it seriously puts into question the skill/creativity of the user imo.
More absolutist BS.

Perhaps the music you want to make is within the OB6's repertoire (again: good for you). But it's extremely patronising to believe that you have some godlike knowledge of everyone else's tastes and wants.
Old 19th December 2016
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manalishi View Post
More absolutist BS.

Perhaps the music you want to make is within the OB6's repertoire (again: good for you). But it's extremely patronising to believe that you have some godlike knowledge of everyone else's tastes and wants.
chill out, I said "imo"
Old 19th December 2016
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manalishi View Post
More absolutist BS.

Perhaps the music you want to make is within the OB6's repertoire (again: good for you). But it's extremely patronising to believe that you have some godlike knowledge of everyone else's tastes and wants.
Sounds like youth. Might wear off.
Old 19th December 2016
  #125
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I thought the whole point of this thread was some absolutist BS to denigrate "modern poly synths."

This whole thread doesn't make any sense; "why doesn't something that's not an OB-8 not sound like an OB-8?"

Why not just get an OB-8?

I'm not too impressed by someone's inability to make good use out of a synth like an OB-6. That's just my opinion though; it only matters as much as you want it to.
Old 19th December 2016
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
I thought the whole point of this thread was some absolutist BS to denigrate "modern poly synths."

This whole thread doesn't make any sense; "why doesn't something that's not an OB-8 not sound like an OB-8?"

Why not just get an OB-8?

I'm not too impressed by someone's inability to make good use out of a synth like an OB-6. That's just my opinion though; it only matters as much as you want it to.
Well you thought wrong then, didn't you? You obviously don't relate to the OP's enquiry but instead use the thread to spout judgement about imaginary people who 'can't make good use of an OB-6'.
Old 19th December 2016
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krakapow View Post
Legowelt was recently spotted donning a electribe2 onstage was he not?
Looks like an EMX1 to me.

anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths?-electribe.jpg
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anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths?-electribe.jpg  
Old 19th December 2016
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post








Lol Okay....


Get your hands on one and live it with for a moment. Then come back to this thread. It's a living, breathing thing. It's temperamental, it's unpredictable.... I've had days where mine decided to completely make a different noise on a take than it was supposed to and that ended up being the keeper. It happened on one track when I was doing some session work. The artist wanted a filter sweep. I did two or three practice runs to make sure I had it the way the artist wanted. The engineer hit record, I did the sweep and my OB8 let out a squeal instead that ended up being different and perfect. Complete fluke - never did it again. The engineer and the artist went nuts wondering how I came up with that in the few seconds between hitting record and doing the take. But it was just randomness...

Another time, for some reason, the Op amps were misbehaving and the brass sound was raw...slightly distorted...angry. The artist for that session ended up writing a new song based on that particular sound because we all knew it just my OB8 misbehaving. He wrote the song super fast and I did a take for him of my brass sound. And he was right...I never got it to give the brass that edge again. Just a fluke.

One time on a session, voice #4 started giving me problems. Instead of playing the sound, every time it cycled to voice 4, it made this crazy rhythmic pulse that deteriorated like it was being bit crushed. I quickly disabled all the voices except #4 and I gave the producer a track of that, which he cut up into a crazy rhythmic thing. I opened my OB8 up, lifted the upper voice card, blew out the dust and cleaned the contacts and the voice came back to life, never to make that crazy rhythmic thing again.

Those are just examples of the magic randomness that a plug in will never give you. Those moments when it chooses to misbehave.

That's not even counting the feeling of playing it and twisting the knobs while you're playing and hearing it react...the sound is massive. Twist the glide speed all the way down while it's gliding and it sounds like a nest of angry hornets. Assign a pulse wave to both oscillators and make the pulse width sweep slowly. Then reverse the phase of the pulse sweep on one oscillator so that they sweep in opposite directions. You'll be rewarded with the silkiest strings you've ever heard.

Hit the unison knob and detune the oscillators from each other and hear the fattest unison ever, then go to page two and twist the detune knob to detune the voices from each other and hear it get even fatter until it crosses over into aggression.

Don't like the panning on the stereo output? Then reach over to the side where each voice has its own pan knob and twist them until you have every voice lying exactly where you want it in the stereo field. Then play some arpeggios and hear it dance around.

I'm not even scratching the surface. I haven't tried diva. I don't particularly care about diva. I don't use diva. Diva can't replicate the experience of using an OB8, and for me, and for the sessions I get called to play on, the experience is what makes all the magic happen. That's where inspiration comes from.
Sounds to me like you need to get your OB8 serviced.
Old 19th December 2016
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Well you thought wrong then, didn't you? You obviously don't relate to the OP's enquiry but instead use the thread to spout judgement about imaginary people who 'can't make good use of an OB-6'.
I accidentally liked your reply. Isn't there a way to unlike? Anyhow, the title of the thread is "anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths?" fyi
Old 19th December 2016
  #130
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
I accidentally liked your reply. Isn't there a way to unlike? Anyhow, the title of the thread is "anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths?" fyi
Were you trying to report me or something? I believe you can just click it again and unlike it. Yes, that is the title, and you are clearly not underwhelmed with modern polys, so what exactly is your misunderstanding about what I typed?
Old 19th December 2016
  #131
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zerocrossing's Avatar
There are too many problems with the Diva test. First off, the end result of the test was a commercial product. Whether done consciously or not, I can't believe the test was unbiased. Diva is great, but there are many instances where it fails compared to an actual analog. It's funny, there was recently a thread on KVR where Urs got really indignant about this assertation... and then went on to explain that short cuts were made to allow for generous polyphony on most modern CPUs. RePro-1 doesn't suffer from these short cuts and, IMO, is overall more convincing, but monophonic. That said, in many cases Diva can be 100% convincing. Just not all.

The second reason that example fails as a true indicator, is that it doesn't speak to the fact that nearly everyone could tell there was a difference. They just couldn't tell which difference indicated the hardware and which the software. My gut was that people picked the one they preferred and the patches were probably made to lean toward Diva's advantage a bit. In all honesty, I listened to the soundset examples just on their own merit, and I didn't feel they were the kinds of sounds I'd pay for. I also don't particularly like to dwell on the sounds of the past, so take that statement with a grain or two of salt. I think the only thing that test does illuminate is that Diva can make very nice sounds. I can say that for myself I'd put a bunch of VSTis in that catagory. Legend, PolyKB, Strobe 2, and Oddity 2 all come to mind. I actually think those do a bit better job of capturing a vintage vibe as they don't have to be chameleons like Diva is. It's a worthwhile trade off because "Moog oscs running though an MS20 filter" is f'n cool.
Old 19th December 2016
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Were you trying to report me or something? I believe you can just click it again and unlike it. Yes, that is the title, and you are clearly not underwhelmed with modern polys, so what exactly is your misunderstanding about what I typed?
Ah, I don't even care anymore. I'm fine with liking your reply I guess. I don't think there's any misunderstanding. This is just another one of those vintage vs modern analog threads. I think it's ok to want a particular synth to suit one's particular needs. I think it's a point of contention to assert that a modern synth is lacking due to it not being vintage.
Old 19th December 2016
  #133
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CasimirsBlake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
Looks like an EMX1 to me.

anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths?-electribe.jpg
Well heck that kills my sample theory to hell. And I was so proud of it.

So that's reason 238 I want to buy an EMX...
Old 19th December 2016
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
If you can't get "there" with an OB6, it seriously puts into question the skill/creativity of the user imo.
lol, again completely missing the point.
Old 19th December 2016
  #135
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
Ah, I don't even care anymore. I'm fine with liking your reply I guess. I don't think there's any misunderstanding. This is just another one of those vintage vs modern analog threads. I think it's ok to want a particular synth to suit one's particular needs. I think it's a point of contention to assert that a modern synth is lacking due to it not being vintage.
hahahaha, this is getting better. Of course it is a point of contention, but no one made it other than you, just now. We like the old things because of what they sound like, not because of their age/them being vintage and I can guarantee you every single guy like it would rather have new ones that are more reliable and sensibly priced, if they only sounded like that. WHICH brings us round nicely to what the thread was ACTUALLY about.
Old 19th December 2016
  #136
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Ok, I'll concede. Vintage poly synths sound better to some people than "modern poly synths," and although the point was made that this may be due to aging components, this has nothing to do with them being vintage or old.
Old 19th December 2016
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
This is the new variant of a ceaselessly obsessive thread that has been on the internet since there was the internet, even back in the days of Analogue Heaven.....

Is Analogue better than digital? Is old analogue better than new analogue? Can you ever go home again?

I've been conducting an interesting experiment with myself these past few months. Suffice to say, I have access to and mastery over a wide variety of synthesis capabilities and technologies, acquired over many years.

I've been focusing on one patch, on the funny little 8-bit synth tossed into the Roland A-01K (available for the price of popcorn, apparently, from one outlet at least). I've spent lots of time with it, playing it, tweaking it, using it as a baseline to explore everything possible with this seemingly very limited, glitchy little single-voice-with-no-fx synth.

The results are now that when I work with any other instrument, or tonality, or patch, or whatever..... I miss that specific A-01K patch sound. I can't get to it on other synths, no matter how hard I try! There is nothing like that patch on that synth, anywhere else in the universe! I am convinced!

TL;DR: familiarity can breed contempt, but it can also breed ever-subtler ties and associations, like a good, long marriage. You get used to an increasing number of characteristic details, which you gain more and more familiarity with, and control over, with time and acquaintance.

It's kind of like bird watching; what seems like made-up nonsense by experienced birders over time becomes familiar to you until you, too, yes, see the characteristic markings, even without the aid of a pair of binoculars, of the Little Brown Nutjob er I mean Nuthatch, whatever.

And so I would claim, to end this waste of the internet once and for all, that what we argue for as the inimitable and eternal excellence of ancient analogue is simply a question of habituation. We grow used to a certain tonality, it becomes our special friend, and then we grow nostalgic for it in recollection when we compare it with anything else that would dare to present itself as a substitute or equivalent.

There's nothing more to it than that, truly.

Neat story. But it's a bit like saying that old Martin only sounds good to you because you got used to it, and really, you should be just as happy with that new off the rack ______ (fill in your chosen average tone and quality acoustic brand of choice).
Not exactly, because if you're used to the Martin...... nothing else will ever come close.

That is what I was saying.

To be non-judgmental, everyone has a different set point where they tire of the old, crave the new, tire of the new and crave the old again. Habit, familiarity vs. exploration and innovation. Neither is "better" than the other. We all need some of each.

If you focus on something, anything, for awhile, it becomes by definition the center around which everything else is arranged. This is as true in painting and photography as it is in music. What that center is or "should be" is always arbitrary. Habit naturalizes certain things as "better" simply due to their familiarity, not because of any intrinsic property inherent to them defined by the universe as superior.

Now, more than ever, we can easily see, with a global perspective, the utter arbitrariness of any aesthetic norms, and recognize them as culturally and historically situated, and reinforced by relentless repetition and insistence on their primacy.

That perspective is ultimately liberating, but it is clearly a shock for many who fear everything they are not familiar with. Too many choices can breed confusion, even intimidation. One must have strength of personality to accept such reality. Such is rare; I understand that.
Old 19th December 2016
  #138
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Also, I am of the opinion that the OB-6/P-6 sound more "alive" or like "living, breathing, gritty organisms" than a Juno 106 despite the Juno 106 being vintage. Again, just my opinion.
Old 19th December 2016
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
Ok, I'll concede. Vintage poly synths sound better to some people than "modern poly synths," and although the point was made that this may be due to aging components, this has nothing to do with them being vintage or old.
That point was also already dispelled, as I was there first time round, and they already sounded like that.
Old 19th December 2016
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Not exactly, because if you're used to the Martin...... nothing else will ever come close.

That is what I was saying.

To be non-judgmental, everyone has a different set point where they tire of the old, crave the new, tire of the new and crave the old again. Habit, familiarity vs. exploration and innovation. Neither is "better" than the other. We all need some of each.

If you focus on something, anything, for awhile, it becomes by definition the center around which everything else is arranged. This is as true in painting and photography as it is in music. What that center is or "should be" is always arbitrary. Habit naturalizes certain things as "better" simply due to their familiarity, not because of any intrinsic property inherent to them defined by the universe as superior.

Now, more than ever, we can easily see, with a global perspective, the utter arbitrariness of any aesthetic norms, and recognize them as culturally and historically situated, and reinforced by relentless repetition and insistence on their primacy.

That perspective is ultimately liberating, but it is clearly a shock for many who fear everything they are not familiar with. Too many choices can breed confusion, even intimidation. One must have strength of personality to accept such reality. Such is rare; I understand that.
How about this: One must have the strength to trust ones own senses, even under duress of others' opinions who live in the new world of relativism about most everything, where we are all trained to no longer trust ourselves and become and act like easily controlled, unquestioning, needy beings we in truth are not. Such sure as sh*t is rare today, very sadly, as we manifest this reality of ours together collectively, and the people who socially engineer this relativity wrongness this kind of crap stems from do it out of darkness and crowd control.

You think you have just showed me something of value, but all you did show me is how little you trust your own self and how much you want to tell me that me trusting me is also wrong. Well, sorry but that ain't going to work here. Have a nice day, let's leave it there, as politics isn't allowed on this forum and I am about done with condescending nonsense for one thread.
Old 19th December 2016
  #141
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Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Sounds to me like you need to get your OB8 serviced.
Lol maybe in telling a story but in context, I've owned it for years and the times it's misbehaved I can count on one hand. So in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't behave in any way that I would think it has a problem. A handful of hiccups over hundreds of tracks I've played on over the past couple of years doesn't indicate any serious problems.

It's never sh*t the bed ever and died on me during a session. In fact, it's never died, ever. And if it did, I don't know if you've ever seen the inside of one, but compare to quite a few analogs I've seen inside of, the OB8 is a thing of beauty. The engineering inside is as good as outside. It's built to be repaired and worked on. Lots of room. The upper voice card (there's 4 voices on a card) is attached to standoffs that are hinged, so when you unscrew the upper voice card, it swings up and out of the way, perpendicular to the lower one so you can work on the lower voice card without removing the upper one. It even uses a hardware connector that automatically disconnects so there's no cable to disconnect.

Even the calibration procedure is fairly easy and straightforward. I've calibrated it myself whenever it's needed it. You can download the service manual online and it details the calibration procedure.

I only mention that because not all analogs are equal inside. Moogs can be a nightmare. Some of the Sequential stuff is held together with spit and glue - you don't want to poke around there more than you have to.

Over the past few years I've done minor maintenance to keep it running and it's super easy to work on. Over the summer I was getting intermittent key response and it was nothing to open it up, pull out the keybed and repaint the rubber contacts with silver paint.

I bought it off a guy a few years ago in Staten Island who repaired synths for a living and owned this one, so it was kept in good working condition. Got it for a great price, too - I think $2200.

But yeah, in reality it gives me very little problems.
Old 19th December 2016
  #142
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_ADSR_'s Avatar
I work with a guy everyday who really has no concept of making music - just what he likes and what he doesn't like to listen to.

He also loves old muscle cars of which I know very little about. I do, however, know that trying to tell him the new Mustang or new Camaro is almost the same thing would just be suicide.

"But they got a warranty!"

Yea, not gonna do it...because I would be wrong. He knows what he likes. He's told me what he likes.

We do sometimes talk about my latest purchases and what's going on in the analog synth world. The analogy of how Moog just reissued the "Original Mustang" works perfectly.

He knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Old 19th December 2016
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
How about this: One must have the strength to trust ones own senses, even under duress of others' opinions who live in the new world of relativism about most everything, where we are all trained to no longer trust ourselves and become and act like easily controlled, unquestioning, needy beings we in truth are not. Such sure as sh*t is rare today, very sadly, as we manifest this reality of ours together collectively, and the people who socially engineer this relativity wrongness this kind of crap stems from do it out of darkness and crowd control.

You think you have just showed me something of value, but all you did show me is how little you trust your own self and how much you want to tell me that me trusting me is also wrong. Well, sorry but that ain't going to work here. Have a nice day, let's leave it there, as politics isn't allowed on this forum and I am about done with condescending nonsense for one thread.
I was merely making an aesthetic point, one you can use in thinking about Mark Rothko or Norman Rockwell as much as anything else.

Amazed to see your incoherent and emotional reaction, but oh well.... GS. Internet. Etc.
Old 19th December 2016
  #144
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
this is the kinda classic GS thread that always reminds me why y'all aren't off writing some nice tunes...too busy arguing the toss over micro differences perceived by each and every individual..
Old 20th December 2016
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
why y'all aren't off writing some nice tunes...too busy arguing the toss over micro differences perceived by each and every individual..
Personally I only get on forums like this when I'm bored at work or taking a sh*t so...
Old 20th December 2016
  #146
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zerocrossing's Avatar
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Originally Posted by abruzzi View Post
For me it comes down to one word: velocity. A poly without velocity is of zero interest to me. Its less of an issue on a mono since you can use creative phrasing and the volume knob, but a poly where every note in the chord sounds at the same volume is very musically uninteresting to me. So many of the gold standard vintage polys don't have velocity (P5, OB-8, JP-8, etc.), I'm sure there are exceptions--my Matrix 6 (and I assume Matrix 12) has it and obviously the CS80 but its surprisingly uncommon, let alone aftertouch of some kind.
That's me too, except add aftertouch to that... and more. I got a Roli Rise for a present and it's become invaluable. I'd take it controlling my two Tetras over any old classic any day.

But, I don't deny that people have a preference for those old synths I don't, but I can see how one might.
Old 20th December 2016
  #147
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Personally, my favorite topics on GS are of the "analog vs digital" or "vintage vs modern" variety. They always end up turning into answerless meditations that induce a state of transcendent nirvana.
Old 20th December 2016
  #148
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Mefistophelees's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
How about this: One must have the strength to trust ones own senses
Psychology teaches us that our senses are not to be trusted, they are very easily fooled.

However, it doesn't matter if it's the sound or just your perception of the sound. If it's only an original OB-8 that gives you that buzz, then you need to pony up the cash to get one.

I could probably simulate my modular on a computer, but it really wouldn't be as much fun.
Old 20th December 2016
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
this is the kinda classic GS thread that always reminds me why y'all aren't off writing some nice tunes...too busy arguing the toss over micro differences perceived by each and every individual..
.... and this is why you see me here increasingly infrequently..... (sorry I just had to do that to your brain so someone else can call me an effete snob of the literati or something....)
Old 20th December 2016
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefistophelees View Post
Psychology teaches us that our senses are not to be trusted, they are very easily fooled.
However, it doesn't matter if it's the sound or just your perception of the sound. If it's only an original OB-8 that gives you that buzz, then you need to pony up the cash to get one.

I could probably simulate my modular on a computer, but it really wouldn't be as much fun.
^ THIS..!!
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