The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 19th December 2016
  #61
Lives for gear
 

The big picture:

* The new stuff is good ... as new stuff. It doesn't always sound like the best of the old stuff.

* A lot of players on this forum want to have the choice -- new instruments with a new sound, and new instruments with the classic sounds.

* Right now, getting certain classic poly sounds means buying an old instrument. Even though the new instruments are fine for some timbres, for others it's just not the same.

The Minimoog reissue is the first time a current company has really responded to this gap in the market. There's been a lot of marketing suggesting that new instruments can simulate the classic stuff with new analog designs, or even with modeling (Hi, Roland), but Moog is actually trying to bring back a classic instrument. (Whether the market would pay for a Jupiter or a Memorymoog reissue, at today's costs...who knows.)

------
P.S. -- Dave Smith made a deal with the devil by naming the Prophet 6 and the OB6 the way he did. In the short-term, it was a great way to focus attention on two good instruments, but in the long-term the names created false expectations; the P6 won't perfectly replace the P5 sonically, and the OB6 definitely won't replace the OB8.

I like the P6 (just bought one, very happy) but I like it as itself.

Last edited by percussion boy; 19th December 2016 at 01:45 AM.. Reason: newer bluer quicker better
Old 19th December 2016
  #62
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
of course they are, this is just peoples minds being silly as usual..
Soft synths are also more than capable of making good music with, but they might not have that sound you are looking for, the tiny little extra mojo dust many of us are chasing, but a different still usable sound.
Old 19th December 2016
  #63
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
manufacturers can't win, everyone was crying and moaning about no new poly synths, and now we have a plethora of them on the market people are still not happy...I think that says more about the modern materialistic world we live in than anything else...those tiny molecular differences people say they hear in old gear are utterly meaningless when these instruments are used in music...the tiny irrelevant nuances that each person thinks they can hear are so small they are almost imaginary.. if you tried to tell anyone who wasn't a synth nerd there are tiny sonic differences they'd look at you like you're mad..

stick a pedal on the end of them and they can sound like they're from any era and sound like anything you want..

now having said that I wouldn't buy one particular poly not because it didn't sound right, it did sound right to me, but because of the workmanship of the knobs...wobby is not an option I want on a $4000 poly synth thanks..
Old 19th December 2016
  #64
Lives for gear
 
Soothing Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
manufacturers can't win, everyone was crying and moaning about no new poly synths, and now we have a plethora of them on the market people are still not happy...I think that says more about the modern materialistic world we live in than anything else...those tiny molecular differences people say they hear in old gear are utterly meaningless when these instruments are used in music...the tiny irrelevant nuances that each person thinks they can hear are so small they are almost imaginary.. if you tried to tell anyone who wasn't a synth nerd there are tiny sonic differences they'd look at you like you're mad..

stick a pedal on the end of them and they can sound like they're from any era and sound like anything you want..

now having said that I wouldn't buy one particular poly not because it didn't sound right, it did sound right to me, but because of the workmanship of the knobs...wobby is not an option I want on a $4000 poly synth thanks..
I'm sure you have listened to Legowelt or BOC. Do you think they will sound the same with modern gear? I don't think it's ''tiny molecular differences'' the differences are huge and points us to a certain epoch.

I was listening in detail Legowelt ambient-ish tracks, and damn that guy really captures the vintage mood.
Old 19th December 2016
  #65
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
I'm sure you have listened to Legowelt or BOC. Do you think they will sound the same with modern gear? I don't think it's ''tiny molecular differences'' the differences are huge and points us to a certain epoch.

I was listening in detail Legowelt ambient-ish tracks, and damn that guy really captures the vintage mood.
Well we don't really know for sure what some of these artists do as they like to keep a few secrets, for all we know they could be using loads of plug ins and M Audio MIDI controller.. Legowelt will use anything, he's no gear snob that I can tell..

now having said all that I do believe the SH 101 has a unique sound that is really easily identifiable, least I can hear it easily...and it transfers to music quite obviously too...stick a Lo Fi Junky over the output and you have instant BoC..
Old 19th December 2016
  #66
Lives for gear
 
Soothing Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Legowelt he's no gear snob that I can tell...
Looks like a vintage gear snob to me, a cool one tho

Old 19th December 2016
  #67
Lives for gear
 
Mefistophelees's Avatar
I'm sure there's a difference between modern and older synths but I'm not convinced it's very big.
I am however sure that with a bit of programming and some effects you can close the gap.
Old 19th December 2016
  #68
Lives for gear
Legowelt was recently spotted donning a electribe2 onstage was he not?

Other then that i have too little experience to speak on this topic
Old 19th December 2016
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
Looks like a vintage gear snob to me, a cool one tho
Quite slutty too!
Old 19th December 2016
  #70
Lives for gear
 
synthguy's Avatar
I'm with fiddlestickz. I wish I had a 30 hour day and immortality and stupid wealth. I have no doubt that if I did some tracks like Gattobus but mixed up everything from my vintage synths, modren stuff, VAs and softies, most of us couldn't tell the difference. Even romplers. Everything sounds great these days. I must remind the class that in one of these vigorously discussed threads, a discerning musician enjoyed playing a friend's Prophet~5 with its warm tone. Until the owner pointed out that he was actually playing a Virus. Ba-dum-bum.

Let me put it this way. Sure, there's a difference between a vintage synth and a new one. A warantee.

We don't buy synths to hold notes for half an hour while we sweep the filter by individual NRPN values and check them with oscilloscopes. We buy them to make music. Or at least the sane ones do. Program some patches and do that music stuff and quit worrying about whether a Prophet-6 sounds like a 35 year old great grand-Prophet. Kids these days, I tell ya...
Old 19th December 2016
  #71
Kja
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by percussion boy View Post
The big picture:

* The new stuff is good ... as new stuff. It doesn't always sound like the best of the old stuff.

* A lot of players on this forum want to have the choice -- new instruments with a new sound, and new instruments with the classic sounds.

* Right now, getting certain classic poly sounds means buying an old instrument. Even though the new instruments are fine for some timbres, for others it's just not the same.

The Minimoog reissue is the first time a current company has really responded to this gap in the market. There's been a lot of marketing suggesting that new instruments can simulate the classic stuff with new analog designs, or even with modeling (Hi, Roland), but Moog is actually trying to bring back a classic instrument. (Whether the market would pay for a Jupiter or a Memorymoog reissue, at today's costs...who knows.)

------
P.S. -- Dave Smith made a deal with the devil by naming the Prophet 6 and the OB6 the way he did. In the short-term, it was a great way to focus attention on two good instruments, but in the long-term the names created false expectations; the P6 won't perfectly replace the P5 sonically, and the OB6 definitely won't replace the OB8.

I like the P6 (just bought one, very happy) but I like it as itself.
.org has knocked it out the park with their ms-20 and arp remakes, they are damn close to spot on, also the oberheim 2 voice is really close, roland's Jupiter in the system -8 is close from what people say, so we do have good options.
Old 19th December 2016
  #72
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
We don't buy synths to hold notes for half an hour while we sweep the filter by individual NRPN values and check them with oscilloscopes. We buy them to make music. Or at least the sane ones do. Program some patches and do that music stuff and quit worrying about whether a Prophet-6 sounds like a 35 year old great grand-Prophet. Kids these days, I tell ya...
Synths are for making music? I buy synths just to own them.

or posing for photos
Old 19th December 2016
  #73
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Guru View Post
I'm definitely not underwhelmed. I believe the modern polysynth have a lot to offer and have very unique personalities. It just depends on which ones you gel with. I'm very happy with my poly's and every time I play them I learn something new.

The modern poly is a journey to the realm of discovery.
I'm with you. What ever "magic" an old poly may have (and I don't deny that there isn't some) gets overshined by the added expressive capabilities of modern polys like the DSIs/Sequentials and I think the Studio Electronics stuff is as good as anything that's ever been.

I'll even say this. One of my favorite modern polys is... Synapse Audio's Legend. "WUT?!" You may ask? Yup. I'm going there. I've run two instances (I'll do four note poly per instance) for an 8 voice synth and even 6 instances running each instance in 4 note unison. To me it seems as lively as anything I've ever touched or heard on even my dusty oldest vinyl. (OK, that's not true, I keep my vinyl compulsively clean.) It sounds amazing. Goosebumps.

But I still have deep love for my Prophet 6. I can't remember how long I've had it, but the honeymoon isn't over. The other day someone posted a side by side with a Prophet 5 and I read the reveal before I could take the test, but I took the test a lot later when I could get to my studio. "I thought, "Oh yeah, the Prophet 5 does sound better, especially in some of the examples." Then I went and reread the thread... to find that I had mixed up the answer had the synth I was liking better was actually the 6, not the five.

I think too many people look at instruments for what they're not and completely miss what they are. I love my Prophet 6 and my two Tetras running as an 8 voice can sound amazing and do things that no vintage synth could. And really, I lived though those "vintage" years and I don't remember things being that great.
Old 19th December 2016
  #74
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by percussion boy View Post
The Minimoog reissue is the first time a current company has really responded to this gap in the market. There's been a lot of marketing suggesting that new instruments can simulate the classic stuff with new analog designs, or even with modeling (Hi, Roland), but Moog is actually trying to bring back a classic instrument.
Korg did it before Moog, with the MS-20.
Old 19th December 2016
  #75
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Soft synths are also more than capable of making good music with, but they might not have that sound you are looking for, the tiny little extra mojo dust many of us are chasing, but a different still usable sound.
Isn't the answer to this that all synths have some kind of character. In the case of the classic old analogs that character has been identified over the years and is now well known. In the case of brand new polys that character may not have revealed itself. It's all a continuum.
Old 19th December 2016
  #76
Lives for gear
 

I think the issue is that mainstream 'modern analogue poly', up til now, has pretty much been the domain of DSI, and he doesn't really seem to be interested in recreating the vintage sound.
Old 19th December 2016
  #77
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kja View Post
Korg has knocked it out the park with their ms-20 and arp remakes, they are damn close to spot on, also the oberheim 2 voice is really close, roland's Jupiter in the system -8 is close from what people say, so we do have good options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Korg did it before Moog, with the MS-20.
Agree with both posts: the MS20, Odyssey, and TVS are more great examples of serious remakes.

I'm a little embarrassed I forgot about these...

I'm gonna politely disagree that Roland's modeled analog stuff belongs in this discussion. Intelligent people differ on this subject...


Wow, I finally got to use the facepalm...but I'm using it on myself. It's like suicide or something.
Old 19th December 2016
  #78
Lives for gear
 
CasimirsBlake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by krakapow View Post
Legowelt was recently spotted donning a electribe2 onstage was he not?

Other then that i have too little experience to speak on this topic
Lkely an E2 sampler filled with his own heavily processed home-grown samples, I'm sure. Just because it's a modern box doesn't mean it can't be made to sound vintage...
Old 19th December 2016
  #79
Lives for gear
 

OB-8 can be emulated pretty much 99% with U-He Diva and U-He Satin combo.
And i am talking soloed and without chorus/delay/reverb.
100% undistinguishable in a full mix.
Old 19th December 2016
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Gringo Starr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
OB-8 can be emulated pretty much 99% with U-He Diva and U-He Satin combo.
And i am talking soloed and without chorus/delay/reverb.
100% undistinguishable in a full mix.
Do you have an OB8?
Old 19th December 2016
  #81
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringo Starr View Post
Do you have an OB8?
I don't need it.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...-ob8-test.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...va-vs-ob8.html

And with a freeware VSTi (not claiming 100% though):
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11664713-post1695.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11668538-post1873.html
Old 19th December 2016
  #82
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
manufacturers can't win, everyone was crying and moaning about no new poly synths, and now we have a plethora of them on the market people are still not happy...I think that says more about the modern materialistic world we live in than anything else...those tiny molecular differences people say they hear in old gear are utterly meaningless when these instruments are used in music...the tiny irrelevant nuances that each person thinks they can hear are so small they are almost imaginary.. if you tried to tell anyone who wasn't a synth nerd there are tiny sonic differences they'd look at you like you're mad..

stick a pedal on the end of them and they can sound like they're from any era and sound like anything you want..

now having said that I wouldn't buy one particular poly not because it didn't sound right, it did sound right to me, but because of the workmanship of the knobs...wobby is not an option I want on a $4000 poly synth thanks..
Suit yourself but don't extrapolate that just because to you the difference is tiny, meaningless , irrelevant and almost imaginary that this is what other people perceive. Just makes you sound like a 12 year old throwing a stropp.
Old 19th December 2016
  #83
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by percussion boy View Post


Wow, I finally got to use the facepalm...but I'm using it on myself. It's like suicide or something.
Old 19th December 2016
  #84
Lives for gear
 
Gringo Starr's Avatar
 

I'd be curious what you'd think if you had an OB8 in your studio for a few days. Demos and shootouts are cool but having one in your hands might make you think differently... or not.
Old 19th December 2016
  #85
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
I think it's because most of the new analog polys are being made by Dave Smith. To me an OB6 sounds closer to a Prophet 600 than an OB8. He has a signature sound.

The Model D reissue sounds totally like the original. Me and my buddy went to Three Wave and tried them side by side and left with the reissue. I'm sure if Moog made it into a poly it would destroy all. I also feel like the Andromeda is modern and yet sounds amazing in it's own way.

But for the most part I agree. None of the modern offerings come close to my OB8 or JP8. I never gelled with my Prophet 600 so I sold it a few years back. And all these DSIs have a similar sound to me. It's not that they're old or new... it's just Dave's sound I think.
Old 19th December 2016
  #86
Lives for gear
 
GeminIAm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I think it's because most of the new analog polys are being made by Dave Smith. To me an OB6 sounds closer to a Prophet 600 than an OB8. He has a signature sound.

The Model D reissue sounds totally like the original. Me and my buddy went to Three Wave and tried them side by side and left with the reissue. I'm sure if Moog made it into a poly it would destroy all. I also feel like the Andromeda is modern and yet sounds amazing in it's own way.

But for the most part I agree. None of the modern offerings come close to my OB8 or JP8. I never gelled with my Prophet 600 so I sold it a few years back. And all these DSIs have a similar sound to me. It's not that they're old or new... it's just Dave's sound I think.
That is a fair point. If you don't like DSI you're kinda fvcked lol
Old 19th December 2016
  #87
Lives for gear
 
manalishi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Suit yourself but don't extrapolate that just because to you the difference is tiny, meaningless , irrelevant and almost imaginary that this is what other people perceive. Just makes you sound like a 12 year old throwing a stropp.
Y'all are missing the point. One synth's loose/vibey/vintage tone might inspire this Mr A to make his music, but get in the way of Mr B's ability to make his track work, sounding messy and poorly defined, when he wants precision and space.

Synths are a means to an end, if you find that this one or that one doesn't work for you consider yourself wiser and move on to one that does.

Don't be so precious about these things, and you might be more open-minded with your tone. And that could lead you to some interesting places with your music.
Old 19th December 2016
  #88
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I think it's because most of the new analog polys are being made by Dave Smith. To me an OB6 sounds closer to a Prophet 600 than an OB8. He has a signature sound.

The Model D reissue sounds totally like the original. Me and my buddy went to Three Wave and tried them side by side and left with the reissue. I'm sure if Moog made it into a poly it would destroy all. I also feel like the Andromeda is modern and yet sounds amazing in it's own way.

But for the most part I agree. None of the modern offerings come close to my OB8 or JP8. I never gelled with my Prophet 600 so I sold it a few years back. And all these DSIs have a similar sound to me. It's not that they're old or new... it's just Dave's sound I think.
To me Dave has two, radically different sounds. One, an organic, lively world of wonder and beauty and another, a stiff and slightly acidic and plasticky thing. Love one more than any other synths, can't do much with the other.
Old 19th December 2016
  #89
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manalishi View Post
Y'all are missing the point. One synth's loose/vibey/vintage tone might inspire this Mr A to make his music, but get in the way of Mr B's ability to make his track work, sounding messy and poorly defined, when he wants precision and space.

Synths are a means to an end, if you find that this one or that one doesn't work for you consider yourself wiser and move on to one that does.

Don't be so precious about these things, and you might be more open-minded with your tone. And that could lead you to some interesting places with your music.
Of course it is totally dependent on musical context whether what a vintage poly does is even suitable. But that is not the premise here and you're merely projecting/throwing a straw man in the ring.

So, for Mr A they are inspiration, but then they are 'just a means to an end'? Make your mind up.

It isn't precious to like vintage synth sounds and point out they are different to today's offerings, it is just knowing what you like. What's weird is why so many people have an issue with someone liking it. Why give a sh*t?

Also you are completely assuming what people who happen to like vintage poly sounds actually use. Who says one wouldn't use anything from plug synths to vintage for whatever musical context one sees fit whilst openly expressing their like for vintage poly tones? Or is that too complicated and realistic?
Old 19th December 2016
  #90
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
OB-8 can be emulated pretty much 99% with U-He Diva and U-He Satin combo.
And i am talking soloed and without chorus/delay/reverb.
100% undistinguishable in a full mix.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gringo Starr View Post
Do you have an OB8?

Lol Okay....


Get your hands on one and live it with for a moment. Then come back to this thread. It's a living, breathing thing. It's temperamental, it's unpredictable.... I've had days where mine decided to completely make a different noise on a take than it was supposed to and that ended up being the keeper. It happened on one track when I was doing some session work. The artist wanted a filter sweep. I did two or three practice runs to make sure I had it the way the artist wanted. The engineer hit record, I did the sweep and my OB8 let out a squeal instead that ended up being different and perfect. Complete fluke - never did it again. The engineer and the artist went nuts wondering how I came up with that in the few seconds between hitting record and doing the take. But it was just randomness...

Another time, for some reason, the Op amps were misbehaving and the brass sound was raw...slightly distorted...angry. The artist for that session ended up writing a new song based on that particular sound because we all knew it just my OB8 misbehaving. He wrote the song super fast and I did a take for him of my brass sound. And he was right...I never got it to give the brass that edge again. Just a fluke.

One time on a session, voice #4 started giving me problems. Instead of playing the sound, every time it cycled to voice 4, it made this crazy rhythmic pulse that deteriorated like it was being bit crushed. I quickly disabled all the voices except #4 and I gave the producer a track of that, which he cut up into a crazy rhythmic thing. I opened my OB8 up, lifted the upper voice card, blew out the dust and cleaned the contacts and the voice came back to life, never to make that crazy rhythmic thing again.

Those are just examples of the magic randomness that a plug in will never give you. Those moments when it chooses to misbehave.

That's not even counting the feeling of playing it and twisting the knobs while you're playing and hearing it react...the sound is massive. Twist the glide speed all the way down while it's gliding and it sounds like a nest of angry hornets. Assign a pulse wave to both oscillators and make the pulse width sweep slowly. Then reverse the phase of the pulse sweep on one oscillator so that they sweep in opposite directions. You'll be rewarded with the silkiest strings you've ever heard.

Hit the unison knob and detune the oscillators from each other and hear the fattest unison ever, then go to page two and twist the detune knob to detune the voices from each other and hear it get even fatter until it crosses over into aggression.

Don't like the panning on the stereo output? Then reach over to the side where each voice has its own pan knob and twist them until you have every voice lying exactly where you want it in the stereo field. Then play some arpeggios and hear it dance around.

I'm not even scratching the surface. I haven't tried diva. I don't particularly care about diva. I don't use diva. Diva can't replicate the experience of using an OB8, and for me, and for the sessions I get called to play on, the experience is what makes all the magic happen. That's where inspiration comes from.

Last edited by ionian; 19th December 2016 at 11:09 AM..
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump