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anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 29th December 2016
  #451
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Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
+1000

I just had a look at all the modern synths i have. How lame can you go. This must be the worst combination of synths ever. Nothing you can make with it. And it sounds like modern crap. No mooooojoooopo.

you have my sincere commiserations. I hope you can pull yourself out of an obvious downward spiral.
Old 29th December 2016
  #452
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synthguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenstino View Post
The creator's interaction with an instrument can have a huge impact on what he or she creates. Everything happens on our mind and if our mind tells us this certain analog keyboard is a pleasurable exeperience it puts u in a completely different state of creativity. I for one find even with a great controller the software Experience of making music to be tideous and cumbersome.
I'm totally in harmony with this. I said much the same thing in a previous post, musing about how a player will most likely respond differently when playing a softsynth versus an Oberheim, CS-80, a Hammond and Leslie, and especially the dreaded Moog Modular. You might even program them differently. I know how to program modulars, but when I'm futzing with a softsynth on a computer screen, I don't gel with poking a mouse at all the patch points like I do a modular synth with an armload of cables. Or massaging drawbars on a real Hammond or clonewheel compared to a virtual organ on a computer monitor.

I love softies almost as much as anything, but give me some hardware with its own personality any day.
Old 29th December 2016
  #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenstino View Post
I personally think on just sound alone sitting in a mix once it's been transferred to an MP3 most people including musicians and even sound engineers ma y have trouble distinguishing analog from a good soft synth.
But and this for me his a huge but. The creator's interaction with an instrument can have a huge impact on what he or she creates.
Yes, some here don't seem to get that point.

They seem to be saying that it doesn't matter what you use, as the end listener can't tell.

It isn't about the end listener for some, it is about their direct interaction and experience with the instrument itself.

Someone's opinion that a particular synth is underwhelming is not a personal attack against you, that needs to be defended, even if you own that particular synth and love it.

Someone's opinion that modern synths don't sound as good as older synths is not saying that your own modern synths are useless, or that they can't be used to make good music. You don't have to take it as a personal attack that needs defending against, and you don't have to defend the synths themselves against someone else's opinion.

Just like if you voiced an opinion that you like a particular synth, no one can tell you that you don't actually like that synth, that your opinion about how you feel about that synth is wrong, that you have to like something else instead. If they tried, I am sure you would find that ridiculous.
Old 29th December 2016
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetuT View Post
actually, the thing that turns this place to **** is people being unnecessarily confrontational.
Nah, the more whingey, low content threads don't help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
The same could be said if you were in a blind date with a girl, ahaha. Why should it be different with a synth you simply don't gel?
I guess people bitterly complain about both and fail to move on with their lives and what they have attainable to them :p
Old 29th December 2016
  #455
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Bach666's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Yes, some here don't seem to get that point.

They seem to be saying that it doesn't matter what you use, as the end listener can't tell.

It isn't about the end listener for some, it is about their direct interaction and experience with the instrument itself.

Someone's opinion that a particular synth is underwhelming is not a personal attack against you, that needs to be defended, even if you own that particular synth and love it.

Someone's opinion that modern synths don't sound as good as older synths is not saying that your own modern synths are useless, or that they can't be used to make good music. You don't have to take it as a personal attack that needs defending against, and you don't have to defend the synths themselves against someone else's opinion.

Just like if you voiced an opinion that you like a particular synth, no one can tell you that you don't actually like that synth, that your opinion about how you feel about that synth is wrong, that you have to like something else instead. If they tried, I am sure you would find that ridiculous.
It looks like you've managed to turn this thread into your own little moan zone. I keep reacting to your outbursts because they're so ridiculous. Nobody's defending anything anymore I don't think. We all realize how stupid and embarrassing this has all become. If I need advise on modern poly synths, I'm sure you'd be useless. I'm not sure if that's something to be proud of. I wouldn't want your advice on vintage poly synths either; you lack the breadth of experience that an enthusiast for all types of synths has.
Old 29th December 2016
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
+1000

I just had a look at all the modern synths i have. How lame can you go. This must be the worst combination of synths ever. Nothing you can make with it. And it sounds like modern crap. No mooooojoooopo.

Hey is that a vermona perfourmer u got. Was thinking of getting one. Would love to hear your thoughts
Old 29th December 2016
  #457
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Yes, some here don't seem to get that point.

They seem to be saying that it doesn't matter what you use, as the end listener can't tell.

It isn't about the end listener for some, it is about their direct interaction and experience with the instrument itself.

Someone's opinion that a particular synth is underwhelming is not a personal attack against you, that needs to be defended, even if you own that particular synth and love it.

Someone's opinion that modern synths don't sound as good as older synths is not saying that your own modern synths are useless, or that they can't be used to make good music. You don't have to take it as a personal attack that needs defending against, and you don't have to defend the synths themselves against someone else's opinion.

Just like if you voiced an opinion that you like a particular synth, no one can tell you that you don't actually like that synth, that your opinion about how you feel about that synth is wrong, that you have to like something else instead. If they tried, I am sure you would find that ridiculous.
I hear ya. For me I find my Ob6 every bit if not actually more enjoyable than my vintage juno 60 with midi. I think perhaps it's just getting the right modern synth so one is not feeling underwhelmed. I had the sub37 for a while and that too was a lot of fun and sounded great. I think sometimes the very fact something is hard to get makes it more desirable. I remember in the early 90s an 808 sitting in my local music store for cheap because everyone wanted the new drum machines the R5 fromm Roland that had digital samples and so much more sounds. Now 808 are like 3k and I can pick an r5 for a few hundred. Human nature is a fickle thing we want what we can't have until we have it then we don't want it as much again and the cycle goes on. I'm trying to not get caught in the vicious cycle.
Old 29th December 2016
  #458
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I've never played an ob8 or any classic analog poly synth, or any classic mono synth. I played the modern moog in the store, p2 and ob6 and prophet6 and prophet12. If I had a roomful of money (which I will in the future) I would buy a p12.
Old 29th December 2016
  #459
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Gringo Starr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
This Omega 8 demo was posted a few days ago:
MATRIXSYNTH: Studio Electronics Omega-8 demo



There are a few online but this is the latest
Ive heard every demo I could find and spent a few hours with a Code8. There's something very cold and sterile about them. Every patch has a harsh high end. If they were between 2-3k range it might be worth having this kind of tool in the box. It's just not worth the money IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
This thread was excellent for helping me determine who's opinions on synths I can avoid wasting my time with.
Meh... I wouldn't let anyones advice on synths guide me to a purchase. It's interesting for me to read people's opinions about gear but in the end I hear something that inspires me or not. Done deal.
Old 29th December 2016
  #460
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenstino View Post
Hey is that a vermona perfourmer u got. Was thinking of getting one. Would love to hear your thoughts
Yes, that's indeed one. I actually have one coming next week and am very excited! Won't serve as a poly for me (though I'm sure I'll mess with it in that capacity from time to time), but will be fun to layer different parts. I haven't been so excited about a synth in a long time. Also, as mentioned in a previous post of mine, I'm really excited for the soon-to-be-released Dreadbox Abyss, another four voice poly which I'm told will be announced at NAMM next month!
Now if I could get as excited about the big modern polysynths!
Old 29th December 2016
  #461
Kja
Lives for gear
What do you guys think of the new artisan polysynth coming soon? I think the ottava has a great sound to it, and it should be around two grand for eight voices I think?
Old 29th December 2016
  #462
Older Synths that have found uses in the studio and are still here:

Roland XV-5080
Yamaha TX-802
Oberheim OB-3
Roland Juno 106 KIWI
Roland JX-3P KIWI
Roland JX-8P KIWI
Roland GR-50
—————

Older Synths Sold as they did not make the grade:

Oberheim Matrix 12
Oberheim Expander
Korg Wave Station
Roland JP-8000
Roland JD-800
Roland D-50
Yamaha DX7
Oberheim OB-8
Memory Moog
Oberheim 8 voice SEM
Sequencial Circuits T8
—————

Newer Synths making the grade:

Sequential Circuits P6
Moog Sub37
Erebus Dreadbox
Boomstar 4075
Boomstar SEM
Arturia Mini Brute
—————

The keyboards we sold were not used very much by our clients or myself. We are song result oriented so listening to a synth by itself is not the goal - how is works in a song is the goal. The weaknesses in the sold ones out-weighted the pluses enough to sell them. I am a big fan of many vintage keyboards and many new ones. Just my 2 cents and what has evolved here over the years. I see not overriding amazing formula for saying older is better than new or visa versa. I will say though I hate the new trend of small keys. Keeps me away from those options.
Old 29th December 2016
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Older Synths that have found uses in the studio and are still here:

Roland XV-5080
Yamaha TX-802
Oberheim OB-3
Roland Juno 106 KIWI
Roland JX-3P KIWI
Roland JX-8P KIWI
Roland GR-50
—————

Older Synths Sold as they did not make the grade:

Oberheim Matrix 12
Oberheim Expander
Korg Wave Station
Roland JP-8000
Roland JD-800
Roland D-50
Yamaha DX7
Oberheim OB-8
Memory Moog
Oberheim 8 voice SEM
Sequencial Circuits T8
—————

Newer Synths making the grade:

Sequential Circuits P6
Moog Sub37
Erebus Dreadbox
Boomstar 4075
Boomstar SEM
Arturia Mini Brute
—————

The keyboards we sold were not used very much by our clients or myself. We are song result oriented so listening to a synth by itself is not the goal - how is works in a song is the goal. The weaknesses in the sold ones out-weighted the pluses enough to sell them. I am a big fan of many vintage keyboards and many new ones. Just my 2 cents and what has evolved here over the years. I see not overriding amazing formula for saying older is better than new or visa versa. I will say though I hate the new trend of small keys. Keeps me away from those options.
What's with the Oberheim OB-3?
Old 29th December 2016
  #464
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
What's with the Oberheim OB-3?
It's an italian made digital Hammond B3 knock off that Tom put his name on. It sits in a track very nicely and because it has draw bars its very easy to tweak for a song. The Leslie imitation on it is pretty good ( foot peddle optional control ) and the distortion and key clicks are not bad. Seem to beat out the plugins and is a lot smaller than the real thing which we do not have room for. For being digital it sounds really warm - surprisingly so. Artists are usually blown away by it.
Old 29th December 2016
  #465
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
It's an italian made digital Hammond B3 knock off that Tom put his name on. It sits in a track very nicely and because it has draw bars its very easy to tweak for a song. The Leslie imitation on it is pretty good ( foot peddle optional control ) and the distortion and key clicks are not bad. Seem to beat out the plugins and is a lot smaller than the real thing which we do not have room for. For being digital it sounds really warm - surprisingly so. Artists are usually blown away by it.
I don't think Tom had anything to do with it. Viscount acquired the Oberheim name after Gibson. They made the OB3 and the OB-12 with the Oberheim name on it.

Your older synths that didn't "make the grade" is sad. How long ago was that when they were sold? An Oberheim EVS not making the grade...lol! I guess your grading was stability and ease-of-use over sound.
Old 29th December 2016
  #466
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oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
I don't think Tom had anything to do with it. Viscount acquired the Oberheim name after Gibson. They made the OB3 and the OB-12 with the Oberheim name on it.

Your older synths that didn't "make the grade" is sad. How long ago was that when they were sold? An Oberheim EVS not making the grade...lol! I guess your grading was stability and ease-of-use over sound.

As someone who has owned (and sold) many of those on that list (as well as others like a CS-80, Chroma, PolyKobol, Synthex, ...) I can completely understand the logic of it.

As a hobbyist, you can afford to tweak 16 envelopes or 8 resonances to slightly tweak a sound. As a business, the extra time spent can drag things out, kill a vibe, and in the end not be worth it no matter how great it sounds.

If we all had infinite time/space/money, we'd never sell anything because they all have slightly different characteristics and we can love them all in their own unique way.

However, reality dictates that decisions have to be made so some gear gets cut while others get promoted.
Old 29th December 2016
  #467
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
Your older synths that didn't "make the grade" is sad. How long ago was that when they were sold? An Oberheim EVS not making the grade...lol! I guess your grading was stability and ease-of-use over sound.
Yes a agree it is kind of sad to me as well as I often loved how they sounded by themselves. Ease of use was not the issue as I am a synth nerd and like most around here love to tweak and learn. Midi implementation is important but all our vintage stuff was upgraded for that except for the Oberheim SEM. It was usually about how they sounded in a song. I loved how the somewhat butter fat sounding keys sounded by themselves, but in a mix that butter fat often got in the way. Maybe it was also the pitch drift and saturation. I like the P6 more than the T8. I like the Sub37 more than the Memory Moog. I like the Boomstar SEM better than the original. They are more flexible and fit it a track better for me. I am not saying the other keys are bad, they just are not as complimentary in a track. Others can disagree and I have no issue with opinions. Being a music producer/engineer in a tracking and mixing studio lots of opinions are flying around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
As someone who has owned (and sold) many of those on that list (as well as others like a CS-80, Chroma, PolyKobol, Synthex, ...) I can completely understand the logic of it.

As a hobbyist, you can afford to tweak 16 envelopes or 8 resonances to slightly tweak a sound. As a business, the extra time spent can drag things out, kill a vibe, and in the end not be worth it no matter how great it sounds.

If we all had infinite time/space/money, we'd never sell anything because they all have slightly different characteristics and we can love them all in their own unique way.

However, reality dictates that decisions have to be made so some gear gets cut while others get promoted.
Yes when you keep messing with a keyboard to fit into a track and it just seems to not go there then the frustration can become an issue and time lines go out the window. Time is money is part of commercial studio life.

Last edited by AudioSoundzz; 29th December 2016 at 04:26 PM.. Reason: Added Quote at end
Old 29th December 2016
  #468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Yes a agree it is kind of sad to me as well as I often loved how they sounded by themselves. Ease of use was not the issue as I am a synth nerd and like most around here love to tweak and learn. Midi implementation is important but all our vintage stuff was upgraded for that except for the Oberheim SEM. It was usually about how they sounded in a song. I loved how the somewhat butter fat sounding keys sounded by themselves, but in a mix that butter fat often got in the way. Maybe it was also the pitch drift and saturation. I like the P6 more than the T8. I like the Sub37 more than the Memory Moog. I like the Boomstar SEM better than the original. They are more flexible and fit it a track better for me. I am not saying the other keys are bad, they just are not as complimentary in a track. Others can disagree and I have no issue with opinions. Being a music producer/engineer in a tracking and mixing studio lots of opinions are flying around here.


Yes when you keep messing with a keyboard to fit into a track and it just seems to not go there then the frustration can become an issue and time lines go out the window. Time is money is part of commercial studio life.
I completely understand your situation. Just sucks that you had to sell that stuff off, but when you are running a business, you can't hold on to stuff if it isn't making any money. Yes, many of those older beasts are difficult to tame in the mix.
Old 29th December 2016
  #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenstino View Post
Hey is that a vermona perfourmer u got. Was thinking of getting one. Would love to hear your thoughts
Awesome synthesizer, incredible pleasing tone & sound to it.
Tweakers dream synth. It could be nice and soft, growly and aggressive, out there space sounds, funky fonky sounds - and generally "the stuff daft punk tracks are made of" for lack of better words.
How the 4 voices interact with each other is very cool and flexible and encourages you to experiment for hours upon hours.
Some unique stuff you can't do with most synths such as cascading sync sound or cascading fm sound (vco4 synced to vco3 which is synced to vco2 which is synced to vco1, and they can also fm each other while you're at it - to make some cool in your face sounds).

Here are some examples:

Some classic analog sounds in here. Everything is Vermona Perfourmer mkii except the drum loop:



Sync and fm together:


A sequence where you cycle thru the four voices and get to change the wavform, pitch etc to get cool results:


And this is how well it handles classic acid tasks:
Old 29th December 2016
  #470
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Zoolook's Avatar
Does anyone think that if you went back to 1982 and took a Modal 008 with you, or a MacBook Pro and Komplete 11 or a Prophet 12 that Rick Wakeman or Peter Gabriel or Edgar Froese would have been 'underwhelmed'?

As someone already said, this is the best time to be an electronic musician ever - you can literally do anything - limitless tracks, limitless digital fidelity, limitless storage (for all practical purposes) and yet... "ohh... it doesn't sound the same as..." (read that with the whiniest cartoon voice you can image).

The irony is that many musicians who used these instruments back in the day, were sometimes striving for sounds that they simply could not make. How many mellotron choirs or violins do you think would have been replaced by samples had the technology existed then?
Old 29th December 2016
  #471
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Soothing Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post
Does anyone think that if you went back to 1982 and took a Modal 008 with you, or a MacBook Pro and Komplete 11 or a Prophet 12 that Rick Wakeman or Peter Gabriel or Edgar Froese would have been 'underwhelmed'?

As someone already said, this is the best time to be an electronic musician ever - you can literally do anything - limitless tracks, limitless digital fidelity, limitless storage (for all practical purposes) and yet... "ohh... it doesn't sound the same as..." (read that with the whiniest cartoon voice you can image).

The irony is that many musicians who used these instruments back in the day, were sometimes striving for sounds that they simply could not make. How many mellotron choirs or violins do you think would have been replaced by samples had the technology existed then?
We are standing on the shoulders of giants. Those limitations were beneficial, limitations fuel creativity.

It's not about talent or old vs new. It's about capturing a type of sound that fights against modern tendencies and sooner or later will be extinct, because of aging and unobtainable components. You are right we have many options, but what matters sometimes it's not the options, but something simple that sounds good.

There's a big difference between picking an old synth or faking it with new technology. It's like telling your kid to impersonate his grandfather. With some practice he could match his characteristics, but it's just a kid pretending to be someone else.

Inspirational stuff:

Old 29th December 2016
  #472
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Zoolook's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
We are standing on the shoulders of giants. Those limitations were beneficial, limitations fuel creativity.
I completely agree and I'd recommend anyone coming into this new to buy minimal gear and learn the heck out of it before buying their way out of apparent constraints.

When you read people bitching that "X DAW only comes with 9 reverbs when Y DAW comes with 15...", you can't help but wonder WTF the world is coming to.
Old 29th December 2016
  #473
Gear Addict
 
_ADSR_'s Avatar
I was just watching this and thinking 'what if it was only ever a JP-08?'.

Old 29th December 2016
  #474
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post
Does anyone think that if you went back to 1982 and took a with you, or a MacBook Pro and or a that Rick Wakeman or Peter Gabriel or Edgar Froese would have been 'underwhelmed'?

As someone already said, this is the best time to be an electronic musician ever - you can literally do anything - limitless tracks, limitless digital fidelity, limitless storage (for all practical purposes) and yet... "ohh... it doesn't sound the same as..." (read that with the whiniest cartoon voice you can image).

The irony is that many musicians who used these instruments back in the day, were sometimes striving for sounds that they simply could not make. How many mellotron choirs or violins do you think would have been replaced by samples had the technology existed then?
It's insane how I've now several times throughout this thread had to point out to people that this thread is NOT about technological advancements (or lack thereof); that's a completely separate thing. You'd think folks as savvy as this lot wouldn't have such a hard time w/ reading comprehension. We all like different sounds, no? So why mock those that prefer sounds produced by vintage synths? I could mock you all the same for liking modern synth sounds. It's subjective, no need to be a sourpuss over it- they're just synths, dude.
Old 29th December 2016
  #475
Gear Addict
I think the real irony-- one that most folks might have a hard time understanding-- is that a lot of people, myself very much so included, do this purely as a hobby. We spend our time and money chasing a sonic ideal, which often times might lack the practicality of modern alternatives. Why, if practicality is all that mattered, would there be such an influx in demand for all these vintage reissues? I think the fact that major corporations have reissued their synths of yore-- and made a killing in the process-- speaks volumes regarding how secondary (or tertiary even) everything but the sound is. Heck, I think a lot of diehard synth fans would assign more weight to aesthetic/nostalgia factor over improved functionality. There's always a way to add a practical function to a synth if it's lacking something, hence why people have modded them for decades. A lot of us are in this just for the sound. There's beauty in the flaws.
Old 29th December 2016
  #476
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Zoolook's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty.west View Post
It's insane how I've now several times throughout this thread had to point out to people that this thread is NOT about technological advancements (or lack thereof); that's a completely separate thing. You'd think folks as savvy as this lot wouldn't have such a hard time w/ reading comprehension. We all like different sounds, no? So why mock those that prefer sounds produced by vintage synths? I could mock you all the same for liking modern synth sounds. It's subjective, no need to be a sourpuss over it- they're just synths, dude.
Woah, back off there tiger - take some of your own advice, it's subjective, no need to be a sourpuss over it.

OK I see that replying to a thread without quoting anyone in particular looks like a reply to the OP, and you're quite right that we all have our own tastes. However when you say you could mock me for preferring modern synth sounds, well now you're making an assumption. I never said that and in fact if I wanted to sound of an ARP 2600 I'd much rather use the real thing than pretend my Radias or Bazzile sounds the same. Obviously they don't.

Your comment was that modern synths don't sound as alive or have the same character as vintage synths - and you're right, they absolutely don't. If the answer for you is to turn back the clock and seek out the metaphorical creaks and crackles of the early days, that's awesome

However I personally don't think the answer is necessarily to go back in time searching for authenticity (given the cost, and the irony that using a 40 year synth is anything but 'authentic'). I think there is opportunity in newer instruments which is often missed, because people are desperately trying to make their King Korg sound like a Mono-Poly. Why?

I guess I'm trying to say that if people embrace the capability of their modern instruments and equipment, and push them in ways others haven't, the reward will be similar to when Jarre used tape-delays and phasers to make a very ordinary organ sound like a synth from the future. There are more opportunities to do that kind of thing now than ever before, and yet people choose to whine that they can't quite capture that evasive sound of yesteryear... the fact is, they never could.
Old 29th December 2016
  #477
Gear Maniac
 
fadein's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty.west View Post
Heck, I think a lot of diehard synth fans would assign more weight to aesthetic/nostalgia factor over improved functionality. There's always a way to add a practical function to a synth if it's lacking something, hence why people have modded them for decades. A lot of us are in this just for the sound. There's beauty in the flaws.
Absolutely! "The flaws", that describes exactly what I miss. And yes, synth are definitely a hobby for me and the only reason for that is the sound. And I don't even use them in my releases, only wood and brass instruments are there.
Old 29th December 2016
  #478
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enossified's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
I think it is just a matter of time before we see polys that sound more vintage on the market, it has been done with monos as has been mentioned.
So what is missing that would make them sound more vintage?

As an electrical engineer I'm very curious as what you think the secret sauce is in vintage analogs. You mentioned "built to different specs" in an earlier post, care to elaborate?

I liked your comment about amp reissues. I do think most mfrs play fast and loose about adherence to vintage specs. For instance Fender sells "custom shop" amps that supposedly sound better than their generic reissues. If both are truly to spec, they would have identical components, right?
Old 29th December 2016
  #479
Gear Nut
 
Her Zesty Sin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
Older Synths that have found uses in the studio and are still here:

Roland XV-5080
Yamaha TX-802
Oberheim OB-3
Roland Juno 106 KIWI
Roland JX-3P KIWI
Roland JX-8P KIWI
Roland GR-50
—————

Older Synths Sold as they did not make the grade:

Oberheim Matrix 12
Oberheim Expander
Korg Wave Station
Roland JP-8000
Roland JD-800
Roland D-50
Yamaha DX7
Oberheim OB-8
Memory Moog
Oberheim 8 voice SEM
Sequencial Circuits T8
—————

Newer Synths making the grade:

Sequential Circuits P6
Moog Sub37
Erebus Dreadbox
Boomstar 4075
Boomstar SEM
Arturia Mini Brute
—————

The keyboards we sold were not used very much by our clients or myself. We are song result oriented so listening to a synth by itself is not the goal - how is works in a song is the goal. The weaknesses in the sold ones out-weighted the pluses enough to sell them. I am a big fan of many vintage keyboards and many new ones. Just my 2 cents and what has evolved here over the years. I see not overriding amazing formula for saying older is better than new or visa versa. I will say though I hate the new trend of small keys. Keeps me away from those options.
Oh man interesting, looong and controversial list... Now you need to hire an assistant to handle all the displeased reactions!
Old 29th December 2016
  #480
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
So what is missing that would make them sound more vintage?

As an electrical engineer I'm very curious as what you think the secret sauce is in vintage analogs. You mentioned "built to different specs" in an earlier post, care to elaborate?

I liked your comment about amp reissues. I do think most mfrs play fast and loose about adherence to vintage specs. For instance Fender sells "custom shop" amps that supposedly sound better than their generic reissues. If both are truly to spec, they would have identical components, right?
It's an interesting conversation to have and ultimately what this thread is about.

I come from a guitar background, where I've bought and sold literally hundreds of instruments of all vintages and price points. Doing so has afforded me the ability to be objective. With guitars, there's a tremendous amount of variance, you can never say "these instruments will universally sound great if you use these parts/follow this formula" as every little thing makes a massive difference- they're unusually temperamental beasts. Look at vintage '59 Les Paul "Burst" guitars, the holy grail, costing upwards of $300k... I've spent some time with a few examples and can honestly say they sounded mediocre at best. Why? Maybe because the mahogany bodies were cut from a piece of wood that didn't yield the best sonic qualities. It's not science, it's randomness when it comes to guitars. I've played $150 Squire Strats that sounded and played better than $30k vintage 50's Strats. Just this summer I bought a few legendary legacy guitars- 50's Gibsons-, but they sounded and felt like rubbish so off they went a week later. Valuable experience. A lot of people feel the need to defend their investments to no end, but I just judge with my hands and ears now- if it plays and sounds good, I get it, regardless of vintage, pricepoint or any other biases. So with guitars it's a completely random formula, but what about with synths?

I used to believe that the reason some vintage guitars sounded good because over all those decades the components really had the opportunity to 'marry' each other, mend together, and electronic components to mellow out. I used to apply that concept to synths as well, but I'm not so sure anymore. Modern monosynths seem to do a good job of boasting loads of character and vintage vibe (when desired), so why aren't polysynths 'there' yet?

I'd love your interpretation on the matter. Of course everyones perception of a sound is completely different, but with that in mind, what do you think it is that accounts for the sonic differences? Simply difference component values? Floating tolerances after decades? Black magic?
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