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anyone else underwhelmed with modern poly synths? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 28th December 2016
  #421
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synthguy's Avatar
I guess it's going to take Jexus or Katsunori Ujiie-sensei to make these lame polyanalogs sound cool around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
You have to acknowledge that there has been at least as much positive buzz about these synths as negative, however. Same goes for the DM-12, much more positivity than negativity.
This is why I typed this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
Some people here just won't be happy with anything but the original. For the rest of us, and musicians out in the wild, this is the greatest time to be alive ever.
I feel pretty weird being on a music forum devoted to electronic music and defending ANALOG SYNTHESIZERS of all things. Go figure.

But that's what I do around here. Defend romplers. Defend softsynths. Defend VAs. Defend... polyanalogs. I had a lengthy dissertation typed out explaining why everything should be peachy neato keen for everyone, but it's been said already. Everyone has their opinions, so I'm resigned to it.

I'll just wrap up by saying I'm superhappy with the way things are going, and NAMM can't come soon enough for me. I know that the Integra, Kronos, Montage, Solaris, DM12, System-8 and JD-XA are just the tip of the synth iceberg, and it's just going to get way cooler in the coming years. Yay, everything!

One more quick edit for guys who might make the P~6 and OB-6 sound remotely okay.





And GEOsynth, with a few demo vids.


Last edited by synthguy; 28th December 2016 at 10:24 AM..
Old 28th December 2016
  #422
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robot gigante's Avatar
But you don't need to defend them!

Saying you don't care for or are underwhelmed by something is not attacking it. It's just sharing an opinion based on (what had better be) personal experience with it. If someone says those synths are garbage I probably would defend the synths, even if I don't care for them. They are not and some people will love them for the very reasons that I don't care for them... which is good, diversity of opinion is good, diversity of music and sound are good, and lastly being passionate about what you like and don't like is good too.

Videos are cool and all but I never judge a synth by a demo, I have to play it.

Most definitely looking forward to what's to come as well. The evolution of the modern monosynth market has shown us the likely future of the less matured poly market.
Old 28th December 2016
  #423
Gear Addict
I'm going to log some serious hours on an OB-6 this week. While I'm not in the slightest a fan of the DSI sound (after having owned a few), I'm hoping I can tweak the OB-6 to get within the sonic realm of the OB-8 or, more generally, a great 30 year old analog polysynth. A bit hypocritical, no doubt, as the title of my thread implies I'm underwhelmed w/ modern polys, but after a few months w/ the OB-6 the other day I could maybe see it being what I'm after- still unlikely though. Again, DSI has proven to *not* possess the sonic character I'm after, but I'm hoping Tom left enough of an imprint on it that some of that DSI harshness was washed away. Don't get your knickers in a twist, girls, this is a subjective thing and I admit where I hear harshness you might hear silky smoothness- I'm not making any digs, just sharing personal experience, so chill. Nobody is bringing into question modern polysynths ability to make great music- anyone who thinks that has entirely missed the point of this thread. I will say that one contemporary synth I'm excited about is the yet-to-be-released Dreadbox Abyss. If the sonic character of their mono/duophonic synths is anything to go by, I'll love it. Man, I never have this issue w/ mono synths, but as I'm looking for just one synth to cover poly duties I really want to make sure it's the right one. Look, I'd definitely prefer a new poly from a reliability standpoint alone-- that really is a big thing for me after owning some vintage pieces--, but if I can't find 'it' in a new box, I'll go back to vintage and just have my tech bulletproof whatever synth I end up going for. Gonna' try out Diva this week.
Old 28th December 2016
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
I feel pretty weird being on a music forum devoted to electronic music and defending ANALOG SYNTHESIZERS of all things. Go figure.

But that's what I do around here. Defend romplers. Defend softsynths. Defend VAs. Defend... polyanalogs. I had a lengthy dissertation typed out explaining why everything should be peachy neato keen for everyone, but it's been said already. Everyone has their opinions, so I'm resigned to it.
You need to look at why you think it is your job to defend everything against other people's opinions, when you don't agree with those opinions.

Those sort of imaginary wars, against other people just voicing their opinion, are what turns this place to **** most of the time.
Old 28th December 2016
  #425
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SetuT's Avatar
 

actually, the thing that turns this place to **** is people being unnecessarily confrontational.
Old 28th December 2016
  #426
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Bach666's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetuT View Post
actually, the thing that turns this place to **** is people being unnecessarily confrontational.
^^^ agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
You need to look at why you think it is your job to defend everything against other people's opinions, when you don't agree with those opinions.

Those sort of imaginary wars, against other people just voicing their opinion, are what turns this place to **** most of the time.
^^^ I don't like the way you get personal rather than intelligently debate. I also don't like the way you tried to bring the debate from this thread into a totally unrelated discussion in a totally unrelated thread. Pretty immature actually.
Old 28th December 2016
  #427
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soundebler's Avatar
Can not judge what i do not have , but hearing examples of modern poly they do sound very good and vintage in certain way . There is a lot to say for new , the price weight and all new electronic with midi . The older poly do not have this but can have certain sound that some one can love Thinking logical it would not clarify getting old above new , besides sonic that could be overlap with emotional thinking .

If one is not happy with his poly , that can happen and it is not bad to just try another one
Old 28th December 2016
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
^^^ I don't like
I don't care what you like, or don't like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
the way you get personal
I was simply replying to what someone else posted, I didn't 'get' personal, they made it personal by stating that they have a strange compulsion to defend every sort of gear, from any opinions they don't like.

That really is bizarre behavior, and an example of how they turn things into ongoing arguments, because they have an uncontrollable urge to 'defend, defend, defend' equipment against other forum members opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
I also don't like the way you tried to bring the debate from this thread into a totally unrelated discussion in a totally unrelated thread. Pretty immature actually.
LOL, in a thread about modern drum machines, you recommend a drum machine that clones the sound of a vintage drum machine. Too funny. Boo hoo. Pretty relevant actually.
Old 28th December 2016
  #429
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Talking and talking and arguing for days and weeks... And not a single example of the underwhelming sound of the new vs overwhelming sound of the old.

Sure, the difference between for example P5 and P6 is audible in a direct to interface recording.

But does it even matter if you use some effects with the synths ?
Yep, there is still a difference even with effects but is one of them good and the other bad ?

Made an example with an unknown new vs famous, legendary old (downloaded from YT).
With my usual chain of effects, same effects settings on both of them.
Delay, reverb, tape emulation, tube saturation, limiter.
*For this discussion the names of these two synths are not really important.

I think i like both sounds in my example mp3 equally - one is a bit more agressive and kind of gritty and the other is more silky and smooth, but that is just because they are two totally different synths (like Roland and Oberheim are different, but both sound great).
And this happiness inducing effect of the sound is what is really important to me, not if without any effects one of them is/sounds vintage and the other isn't/doesn't.

*lol attachments are bugged again...
Here:
iamsounderwhelmed.mp3
Click on top right to download it.

And now imagine it buried in the mix under few other instruments and drums.
Is one of them still underwhelming ? Or does it even matter anymore ?
Old 28th December 2016
  #430
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Bach666's Avatar
 

You should try avoiding constantly contradicting yourself and using circular reasoning. Also, I hope you don't retort by calling me an idiot again

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
This is about the sound, nothing else, and the classic analogue synths simply sound better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Of course it is subjective.
You do understand how this is a contradiction right?
Old 28th December 2016
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
You do understand how this is a contradiction right?
It isn't a contradiction.

'Sounding better' is subjective.
Old 28th December 2016
  #432
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LOL, someone thinks modern analogue polys are underwhelming...you guys better set the record straight, they are wrong, they don't really think that!

They don't know how to program, they only listen to presets.

They are not listening through enough effects, or with it buried in a mix.

It's a conspiracy by vintage synth dealers!

Old 28th December 2016
  #433
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty.west View Post
I'm going to log some serious hours on an OB-6 this week. While I'm not in the slightest a fan of the DSI sound (after having owned a few), I'm hoping I can tweak the OB-6 to get within the sonic realm of the OB-8 or, more generally, a great 30 year old analog polysynth. A bit hypocritical, no doubt, as the title of my thread implies I'm underwhelmed w/ modern polys, but after a few months w/ the OB-6 the other day I could maybe see it being what I'm after- still unlikely though. Again, DSI has proven to *not* possess the sonic character I'm after, but I'm hoping Tom left enough of an imprint on it that some of that DSI harshness was washed away. Don't get your knickers in a twist, girls, this is a subjective thing and I admit where I hear harshness you might hear silky smoothness- I'm not making any digs, just sharing personal experience, so chill. Nobody is bringing into question modern polysynths ability to make great music- anyone who thinks that has entirely missed the point of this thread. I will say that one contemporary synth I'm excited about is the yet-to-be-released Dreadbox Abyss. If the sonic character of their mono/duophonic synths is anything to go by, I'll love it. Man, I never have this issue w/ mono synths, but as I'm looking for just one synth to cover poly duties I really want to make sure it's the right one. Look, I'd definitely prefer a new poly from a reliability standpoint alone-- that really is a big thing for me after owning some vintage pieces--, but if I can't find 'it' in a new box, I'll go back to vintage and just have my tech bulletproof whatever synth I end up going for. Gonna' try out Diva this week.
Well the OB-6 seems to be the current favorite for a new poly with a vintage flavor. IF it doesn't do it for you, then it looks like vintage may truly be your only option. For me it was close enough considering warranty, pricing, and longevity. Good luck
Old 28th December 2016
  #434
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
LOL, someone thinks modern analogue polys are underwhelming...you guys better set the record straight, they are wrong, they don't really think that!

They don't know how to program, they only listen to presets.

They are not listening through enough effects, or with it buried in a mix.

It's a conspiracy by vintage synth dealers!

I just spent the last 15 minutes stood with my coffee looking blankly at my gear. I realised I must be in a state of underwhelming underwhelmed ness. It seemed to apply to anything my eyes looked at. I eventually realised that everyones opinions are just like fake news. everything is in fact essentially underwhelming so everyone must tart up the underwhelming in order to go to sleep at night and retain any vestige of hope. I'm thinking of maybe starting a cult around my insights.

Hope this helps
Old 28th December 2016
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
I just spent the last 15 minutes stood with my coffee looking blankly at my gear. I realised I must be in a state of underwhelming underwhelmed ness. It seemed to apply to anything my eyes looked at. I eventually realised that everyones opinions are just like fake news. everything is in fact essentially underwhelming so everyone must tart up the underwhelming in order to go to sleep at night and retain any vestige of hope. I'm thinking of maybe starting a cult around my insights.

Hope this helps
+1000

I just had a look at all the modern synths i have. How lame can you go. This must be the worst combination of synths ever. Nothing you can make with it. And it sounds like modern crap. No mooooojoooopo.

Old 28th December 2016
  #436
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swiller's Avatar
I am underwhelmed with DSI efforts.
I have a p6, but no longer is it a long term keeper.
I also had a tetra and similar thing with that. Metallic sounding and sharp.
Both great synths, but they do not have the basic splodgyness of my juno 106 or my mates @Juno ,or my brothers jp8 or moog source.
My minitaur does however, tick the box and i knew that within about 2 minutes of playing it. That sounds like a real deal vintage analog to me.
Modern or vintage, everyone needs some splodge in their studio.
Old 28th December 2016
  #437
Deleted User
Guest
A get a laugh from people who say for example:
-I tried that (modern synth) for a week and returned it (because)
-I did not like the presets
-keys are wrong, too big, too small etc
-oh no! not enough knobs
-can't do the wobble bass by so and so

If there was a Yoda of synths, he might say
"The sense of entitlement is strong in that one"
(and it might even be directed at me!)
Old 28th December 2016
  #438
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Soothing Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Betamax View Post
A get a laugh from people who say for example:
-I tried that (modern synth) for a week and returned it (because)
-I did not like the presets
-keys are wrong, too big, too small etc
-oh no! not enough knobs
-can't do the wobble bass by so and so
The same could be said if you were in a blind date with a girl, ahaha. Why should it be different with a synth you simply don't gel?
Old 28th December 2016
  #439
Deleted User
Guest
Fine, but I have read far too many posts on tr internet where the people did not even give it IMO a running chance.

When I had first bought my Blofeld, I was baffled in how to coax sound out of it, but I did not return it after a day or week, as in my mind, the issue was MY lack of understanding, and not the synth.

And yes, on this synth, the presets do IMO suck, and the volume is low;
my solution was after about 2 months to send a sysex to INIT patch all the 1024 patches, and force myself to program it.

Now gain structure, pitch, timbre,and amplitude should be the users responsibility, and yes, granted, some may not gel with a synth.

As I am using the Blofeld as an example, I will say that as a wavetable synth, very few of the patches showcased the wavetables.

What I am alluding to, is that times have changed, and IMO not for the better
where there is an expectation from some, not all, that it is the synths responsibility to offer up in easy, fast, and good (remember the good-fast-cheap triad), just as though it was some glorified smart technology
(which to me is only smart for the creator, and not the "consumer").

Just consider me to be some old fart, who is stuck in the 80's!, and we can all go our about our business... (and I have to polish the tin on my hat)!!!!







Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
The same could be said if you were in a blind date with a girl, ahaha. Why should it be different with a synth you simply don't gel?
Old 28th December 2016
  #440
Gear Maniac
 
theJPdude's Avatar
 

Help me out here. I really liked the way both of them sound, though the first seems brighter (NOT better, just brighter.) Which synths are they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
Talking and talking and arguing for days and weeks... And not a single example of the underwhelming sound of the new vs overwhelming sound of the old.

Sure, the difference between for example P5 and P6 is audible in a direct to interface recording.

But does it even matter if you use some effects with the synths ?
Yep, there is still a difference even with effects but is one of them good and the other bad ?

Made an example with an unknown new vs famous, legendary old (downloaded from YT).
With my usual chain of effects, same effects settings on both of them.
Delay, reverb, tape emulation, tube saturation, limiter.
*For this discussion the names of these two synths are not really important.

I think i like both sounds in my example mp3 equally - one is a bit more agressive and kind of gritty and the other is more silky and smooth, but that is just because they are two totally different synths (like Roland and Oberheim are different, but both sound great).
And this happiness inducing effect of the sound is what is really important to me, not if without any effects one of them is/sounds vintage and the other isn't/doesn't.

*lol attachments are bugged again...
Here:
iamsounderwhelmed.mp3
Click on top right to download it.

And now imagine it buried in the mix under few other instruments and drums.
Is one of them still underwhelming ? Or does it even matter anymore ?
Old 28th December 2016
  #441
Lives for gear
 
Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
I feel pretty weird being on a music forum devoted to electronic music and defending ANALOG SYNTHESIZERS of all things. Go figure.

But that's what I do around here. Defend romplers. Defend softsynths. Defend VAs. Defend... polyanalogs. I had a lengthy dissertation typed out explaining why everything should be peachy neato keen for everyone, but it's been said already. Everyone has their opinions, so I'm resigned to it.
You could also *gasp* not care and not engage ...

Let them moan and whinge and carry on about their discontent and the one true fount of polysonic happiness ...

Let's just be clear about one thing, though, the modern analog monosynth resurgence has been going on much longer than the polysynth revival (which really is in its infancy) ...

Because of the higher voice count and higher price tag as well as smaller potential audience — because presumably using a polysynth to its full potential requires more keyboard-playing skills — there's going to be a smaller pool of new polysynths ...

At least for now ...
Old 28th December 2016
  #442
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synthguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
You could also *gasp* not care and not engage ...
Yeah, but I have this stubborn hope that the human race might achieve Star Trek (not reboot) enlightenment one of these decades.

And frankly, much of the discussion has been fun to read in this thread, defensive posts from both SimonInAustralia and myself and others aside. It's fun for most of us slutz to discuss synths like this. Is vintage something that should be earnestly sought out for a serious project, are softies good enough these days on an average computer, are VAs solid as analog stunt doubles? How well do all these guys sit in a track together? These are great questions. Unfortunately we get more strong opinions than audio examples we can judge ourselves.

zerocrossing tossed up a thread back in August titled something like "Prophet~5 vs P~6 challenge" or something like that. I think something like that is in order here, but who has the time for it? Anyone? A couple have contributed something, but this kind of thread deserves some more serious material to chew on. Maybe that should fall to me, though to give a proper shootout more substance I'd have to see if I could find some willing volunteers to share their vintage treasures, and I'm betting there are a lot more people here with the goods themselves.

And a thought just struck me. Maybe some of you with analogs either modren, vintage or both who also have access to recording assets, would consider doing something short, a minute or less of some of your fave sounds on your axes. Anything, melodic bits, sustained chords or notes, whatever, and stay away from outlandish things like audiorate mod because this is the one area a lot of non-analogs fall down. I'd like some samples anything could do without much fuss. Basses, leads, strings, brass, juicy polychords, something that would be good fodder for a shootout. I have access to a Pro Tools rig and have some free time, and I could make high quality wavs I could post to either YouTube or Soundcloud, and share directly if anyone wants when I get a service set up. If you did your own shootout that would be super keen.

It's a thought. Another thought is that I should get off my duff and finish working on that new music room.
Old 28th December 2016
  #443
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Bach666's Avatar
 

If only there were some way for me to tell which people in this thread are only primarily interested in their poly synths for their ability to recreate Van Halen and Rush covers..
Old 28th December 2016
  #444
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
If only there were some way for me to tell which people in this thread are only primarily interested in their poly synths for their ability to recreate Van Halen and Rush covers..
Hey! Some of us like 80s synthpop also!
Old 28th December 2016
  #445
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Bach666's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antti H View Post
Hey! Some of us like 80s synthpop also!
I love that stuff. I love a lot of stuff though.
Old 28th December 2016
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theJPdude View Post
Help me out here. I really liked the way both of them sound, though the first seems brighter (NOT better, just brighter.) Which synths are they?
First Xhip, then Jupiter 8 taken from MrFirechild YT video.
Both went through VOS NastyDLAmkII, VOS epicVerb, VOS FerricTDS, Nick Crow Tube Driver, REAPERs JS: Master Limiter.
Old 29th December 2016
  #447
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
Yeah, but I have this stubborn hope that the human race might achieve Star Trek (not reboot) enlightenment one of these decades.

And frankly, much of the discussion has been fun to read in this thread, defensive posts from both SimonInAustralia and myself and others aside. It's fun for most of us slutz to discuss synths like this. Is vintage something that should be earnestly sought out for a serious project, are softies good enough these days on an average computer, are VAs solid as analog stunt doubles? How well do all these guys sit in a track together? These are great questions. Unfortunately we get more strong opinions than audio examples we can judge ourselves.

zerocrossing tossed up a thread back in August titled something like "Prophet~5 vs P~6 challenge" or something like that. I think something like that is in order here, but who has the time for it? Anyone? A couple have contributed something, but this kind of thread deserves some more serious material to chew on. Maybe that should fall to me, though to give a proper shootout more substance I'd have to see if I could find some willing volunteers to share their vintage treasures, and I'm betting there are a lot more people here with the goods themselves.

And a thought just struck me. Maybe some of you with analogs either modren, vintage or both who also have access to recording assets, would consider doing something short, a minute or less of some of your fave sounds on your axes. Anything, melodic bits, sustained chords or notes, whatever, and stay away from outlandish things like audiorate mod because this is the one area a lot of non-analogs fall down. I'd like some samples anything could do without much fuss. Basses, leads, strings, brass, juicy polychords, something that would be good fodder for a shootout. I have access to a Pro Tools rig and have some free time, and I could make high quality wavs I could post to either YouTube or Soundcloud, and share directly if anyone wants when I get a service set up. If you did your own shootout that would be super keen.

It's a thought. Another thought is that I should get off my duff and finish working on that new music room.
I personally think on just sound alone sitting in a mix once it's been transferred to an MP3 most people including musicians and even sound engineers ma y have trouble distinguishing analog from a good soft synth.
But and this for me his a huge but. The creator's interaction with an instrument can have a huge impact on what he or she creates. Everything happens on our mind and if our mind tells us this certain analog keyboard is a pleasurable exeperience it puts u in a completely different state of creativity. I for one find even with a great controller the software Experience of making music to be tideous and cumbersome. The diva for instance sounds great but I don't enjoy the process nearly as much as when I'm messing with a Moog voyager or my Ob6 or juno 60. I will spend way more time sculpting sounds on the hardware and as a result the creation is more refined. Simply because it's more fun to do so. Again it may be all in our heads but everything is.
Old 29th December 2016
  #448
Gear Addict
Is the Obie Matrix 12 considered a generally pretty stable synth? How would it compare the an OB-8?
I'm all over the place, at moments thinking to just settle for a cheaper vintage poly (Poly 61M, Matrix 6, Juno 6, etc.) and at other times thinking of going with a big legacy poly (Matrix 12, SunSyn, Jupiter 8 (if I save longer), etc.). I do enjoy the tone of some of the lower-end above mentioned synths and think once 'dressed up' they can be made to sound quite large, though there's no denying the big guns are on another level...
Bummer that the Dreadbox Abyss will be only four voices (though I'll still get it)- was rumoured for a while that it'd be a six voice, which would of been exactly what I wanted.
Old 29th December 2016
  #449
Gear Maniac
 
theJPdude's Avatar
 

So the long and short of it is that just about anything can sound pretty darn good after processing and effects. What a time to be a alive!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
First Xhip, then Jupiter 8 taken from MrFirechild YT video.
Both went through VOS NastyDLAmkII, VOS epicVerb, VOS FerricTDS, Nick Crow Tube Driver, REAPERs JS: Master Limiter.
Old 29th December 2016
  #450
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
First Xhip, then Jupiter 8 taken from MrFirechild YT video.
Both went through VOS NastyDLAmkII, VOS epicVerb, VOS FerricTDS, Nick Crow Tube Driver, REAPERs JS: Master Limiter.
I probably would have picked the first one as being hardware.
These tests are usually pretty hard to choose, but add processing, and it's anyone's guess.
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