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Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION' Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 15th December 2016
  #1
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Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'

there was some talk of Wave Alchemy's new 'REVOLUTION' in the Synth Drums thread, but i figured it deserved its own discussion. set to be released on 12/22, so it won't be long until we can see what it's all about. wasn't sure what to think at first, but i'm really looking forward to this.






TR-808, TR-909, LinnDrum, CR-78, TR-606, SP-12, Drum-Traks, TR-707, DX, TR-727, Drumulator, TR-505, GameBoy "modules" - covers the spectrum pretty well, though i might wish for a few more. the Casio RZ-1 comes to mind along with some others, maybe they can be added eventually.



in case anyone is unfamiliar with their existing "revolution" products, here's a bit of a (slightly critical) review to give you an idea of the concepts that this new one is based on...


i have 'Transistor Revolution MkII' (TR-808 and TR-909), 'Digital Revolution' (a handful of 80s digital drum machines - LinnDrum, DMX, DrumTraks, Drumulator, SP-12, TR-707, etc), and 'Revolution 606' (TR-606) which are Kontakt instruments with custom interfaces meant to somewhat mirror the functions of the original machines. they're not perfect, but there's really nothing else on the market quite like them. the interface lets you choose between the sounds of these machines, and you can mix and match to build custom kits. they all feature heavily sampled "original" versions, along with variations like the same sounds sampled with vintage 12-bit samplers, sampled to tape, etc... honestly, with the number of ways that we're able to process sounds these days, i see these variations as somewhat of a needless gimmick. i guess it's good to have options though, and some of these sounds (err... variations of the sounds) are pretty useful.

each has a built-in pattern sequencer, mixer page, and stock Kontakt fx (which are just ok). the interface requires a lot of clicking back and forth between the various pages unless you have everything mapped, and i was a little disappointed initially. however, the pattern sequencer is actually fun to use, and you can get some pretty nice stuff going in no time. hits register as either "normal" or "accent", and it's easy to "paint" steps in very quickly. it took me a bit to warm up to it, but now i see how useful and well thought out the sequencer really is. simple, but very efficient for classic old-school sounding patterns.

a great feature of 'Transistor Revolution MkII' and 'Digital Revolution' is that they come with separate Kontakt "modules" for each type of sound (kick, snare, claps, toms, hi-hats, etc). these can be loaded individually into your DAW (or Maschine, etc) in case you don't always want to use a whole kit, or if you want to mix and match sounds from both collections. pretty sorry to hear that this option won't be available with the new 'REVOLUTION', they're perfect for sequencing inside Maschine or Ableton's "Drum Rack" (for example). i seriously hope they will consider adding this feature to the new 'REVOLUTION' at some point in the future.


Transistor Revolution | TR-808 and TR-909 Samples

this one is pretty fantastic, copying the layout and parameters of the original 808 and 909. it uses round-robin sampling and seems to crossfade (?) between them when using the knobs so that it functions very similar to the real thing. sounds quite lively in use, and gets around the "static/machine-gun" feeling that you usually get with using samples of the machines.

EDIT: here's an audio example of the 909 sounds in use. quite easy to hear the variation of samples for each hit, especially with the snare and claps. just after the snare and claps each come in i momentarily switched it to the "Digital" setting (this uses just a single sample for every hit) for a few seconds and then back to "Analog" so that you can hear the typical "machine gun" effect which sample playback usually suffers from.




unfortunately, 'Transistor Revolution MkII' seems to have a problem with the Shuffle/Swing setting. applying any amount of shuffle using the knob doesn't really work as expected and just sort of ruins the feel of the pattern. works ok on 'Digital Revolution' and 'Revolution 606', so i'm not sure what the problem is.


Digital Revoluton | Virtual drum machine for Kontakt and Ableton Live

this one features an assortment of classic 80s drum machines (though it is missing a few great ones like the Casio RZ-1 and others), and also comes with a "Percussion" instrument layout for using all those drum sounds that don't quite fit into your standard kit. happy to see that they've included most/all of the percussion sounds from the TR-727, 505, and the others. very cool interface, most sounds have a "variation" slider to control pitch or decay. sometimes this slider switches between different sounds that were included on the machines (like the two different kicks/snares from the 707, etc). each sound has a "lo-fi" mode which "resamples the selected drum sound through an ‘iconic’ grey sampler in real-time" and you can further pitch it up/down that way with the "Resample" control.

not really sure why, but they've included 808, 606, and 909 sounds that were sampled with the SP-1200. i guess that's cool (and they sound pretty good), but i think i would rather have a few more drum machines (RZ-1, MXR, etc) included instead. there's also a bank of sounds from the Nintendo GameBoy (not sure of the source), but a lot of these are very (too) "noisy" for some reason (??) and not very useful. unfortunately, i noticed a sort of "flam" effect on some of the 727 sounds, which pretty much ruins them. not sure how much of a difference it would make, but it doesn't seem like they did any round-robin multi-sampling with these machines. i know they're all sample-based to begin with, but i'm not sure if the originals sounded as "static" when playing back a string of 16th notes (for example). they actually did this with the sampled hats/cymbals of the 909 for 'Transistor Revolution MkII', and it makes a noticeable difference.


Roland TR-606 Samples | Revolution-606 for Kontakt 5

based on the Roland TR-606, this is their most recent offering and is set up a little different from the others. very similar sequencer and general interface (mixer, fx, etc), but offers more options as far as the sounds themselves. they sampled the 606 using several methods, from outboard processing to vintage samplers. like i said previously, i see this as a bit of a needless gimmick, but whatever. i generally stick with the "pre-amp" setting, but the others can be useful depending on the situation. each sound can be tuned individually using the Kontakt engine, and the vintage sampler modes offer their own tuning control as well. the sequencer uses a number of different "velocity" settings for entering notes, each with a slight variation in sound. not sure how they went about this, or what the point is. i think i preferred the "normal/accent" note entry behavior of the other two, which seems more faithful to the originals. there's some other small changes and new additions to this one as well, but for the most part it's quite similar to 'Transistor Revolution MkII' and 'Digital Revolution'.



i was honestly a bit underwhelmed with all these initially (for a number of reasons, most of which i've made peace with), but have really come to enjoy them. there's really nothing else on the market that works like 'Transistor Revolution MkII', and the other two are pretty damn nice themselves. really looking forward to having them all in one refined package, along with some new additions.

Last edited by golden beers; 28th January 2018 at 12:28 PM..
Old 16th December 2016
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
unfortunately, 'Transistor Revolution MkII' seems to have a problem with the Shuffle/Swing setting. applying any amount of shuffle using the knob doesn't really work as expected and just sort of ruins the feel of the pattern. works ok on 'Digital Revolution' and 'Revolution 606', so i'm not sure what the problem is. i've contacted Wave Alchemy support about this, but haven't heard back yet.
I have just sent you an e-mail in regards to this

The new instrument (Revolution) features many thousands of new sounds, improved and more accurate samples, real analogue tape variations (recorded to a Studer tape machine) for many drum machines, new drum machine models, MIDI Drag & Drop, hugely improved dynamic GUI, parameter lock sequencer, and hundreds of other new and improved features. Oh, and we also recorded a second TR-808 for a wider range of tones (they of course all sound a bit different to one another...)

Also in regards to the Kontakt FX - In Revolution we have spent a lot of time and effort capturing some amazing Impulse Responses - 160 custom impulses from iconic reverb units such as the Lexicon 300L, AKG BX20 Spring, AMS RMX16 and many others, alongside wonderful acoustic rooms from world class studios, recorded with multiple mic positions.

We are confident that the drum machine models in Revolution are the closet you'll get to the vintage hardware. For example we recorded 20,000 samples for the 909 bass drum alone, at 96K, covering every tonal possibility of the original bass drum, with multiple round robins. The knobs allow you to seamlessly scan the samples, mirroring the exact controls of the original instruments
Old 16th December 2016
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
I have just sent you an e-mail in regards to this
got it, thanks! i'll get back to you on it as soon as i can, i'll record an audio example of the odd swing/shuffle behavior that i'm experiencing. i must say that i'm VERY pleased with the discounts for existing owners of the older products. wow, very generous indeed. can't wait to get this thing up and running.

actually, i'll just post the recording here:



the first six variations were done with 'Digital Revolution' using the included 909 sounds (swing/shuffle works as expected with this), the other six were done using 'Revolution 909'. they both start out with 0% swing, then another five settings (set at the indicator marks around the knob) ending at 100%. i'm not even sure how to explain what it's doing (rather interesting push/pull rhythm actually), but it's certainly not working how i'd like it to. bummer not being able to apply a nice swing setting with the 909.

EDIT: i'm sure that this won't be an issue on the new 'REVOLUTION' product.


Quote:
The new instrument (Revolution) features ...
no need to sell me on it, i'll be buying it as soon as it's available. it is what it is, i'll quit worrying about all the "extra" features that i don't see a use for and concentrate on those that i do. i would be interested in hearing more about these "improved and more accurate samples" though.

Quote:
Also in regards to the Kontakt FX - In Revolution we have spent a lot of time and effort capturing some amazing Impulse Responses - 160 custom impulses from iconic reverb units such as the Lexicon 300L, AKG BX20 Spring, AMS RMX16 and many others, alongside wonderful acoustic rooms from world class studios, recorded with multiple mic positions.
not sure what to say, i just don't find much use myself for the included fx, etc. ... all this is very nice if using it standalone, but i've got plenty of other reverbs that i'm happy with. i just don't need them, and as far as the ones included in the older products, i don't really like them much at all. i guess i'll see how they are in the new version? i really don't like the delays, i hope those have improved. "A" has just straight time and triplets but no dotted 8th's. on delay "B" it's hard/impossible to dial it in on certain BPMs due to the scaling of the knob. it's either just too fast, or just too slow. i don't like the EQs either, but they do the job if you're not running multiple outs or using the individual modules. the transient shaper is really useful, i'll say that. the rest of the fx are just ok.


Quote:
We are confident that the drum machine models in Revolution are the closet you'll get to the vintage hardware. For example we recorded 20,000 samples for the 909 bass drum alone, at 96K, covering every tonal possibility of the original bass drum, with multiple round robins. The knobs allow you to seamlessly scan the samples, mirroring the exact controls of the original instruments
right on, this is pretty impressive. like i said above, there's nothing (that i'm aware of at least) which comes close to this sort of attention to detail. i do wish that the 606 (not sure what's up with the different "velocity" levels) and the digital drum machines were multi-sampled for round-robin playback as well.

EDIT: sorry, wrong about the 606. each of the six "accent levels" actually uses 12 individual samples triggered round-robin. plenty of variation to be had with this one.

Last edited by jbuonacc; 16th December 2016 at 08:11 PM..
Old 16th December 2016
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
right on, this is pretty impressive. like i said above, there's nothing (that i'm aware of at least) which comes close to this sort of attention to detail. i do wish that the 606 (not sure what's up with the different "velocity" levels) and the digital drum machines were multi-sampled for round-robin playback as well.
I will reply to your other points via e-mail, in order to keep things tidy in this thread - but in regards to the point you made above:

Revolution-606 has actually been sampled with extensive round robin. You need to be in 'analogue' mode to hear these. Listen to the snare drum and you should easily hear this - very organic. In regards to the 'velocity' levels - The original TR-606 of course features total control over accent - We sampled all of the accent levels for each drum sound, and routed these to velocity in Revolution-606. The sound is very different between the lowest and highest velocity (accent) levels. Again, this is keep the instrument as close as possible and capture all the nuances / tones of the original 606
Old 16th December 2016
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
The new instrument (Revolution) features many thousands of new sounds, improved and more accurate samples, real analogue tape variations (recorded to a Studer tape machine) for many drum machines, new drum machine models, MIDI Drag & Drop, hugely improved dynamic GUI, parameter lock sequencer, and hundreds of other new and improved features. Oh, and we also recorded a second TR-808 for a wider range of tones (they of course all sound a bit different to one another...)
Will there be a Maschine Pack too? I often use both, the Kontakt and the Maschine sounds. I really like that one can choose with your multiformat products.
Old 16th December 2016
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Will there be a Maschine Pack too? I often use both, the Kontakt and the Maschine sounds. I really like that one can choose with your multiformat products.
I am happy to announce that Revolution is an NKS (Native Kontrol Standard) ready instrument. This means you can load it within Maschine and have TOTAL control over everything - just like with NI's own line of instruments
Old 16th December 2016
  #7
This looks great....The level of detail and having everything in a one stop shop has me in a lather before my first coffee
Old 16th December 2016
  #8
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20 thou? Pah, need MINIMUM of 23,500
Old 16th December 2016
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
I am happy to announce that Revolution is an NKS (Native Kontrol Standard) ready instrument. This means you can load it within Maschine and have TOTAL control over everything - just like with NI's own line of instruments
i own no plugin drum sequencers SO this may sound stupid but i've never used a drum sequencer plug in maschine, for me it seems obvious why not but to others who use such things i don't know, so how would the plugin sequencer work in maschine? would the plugin sequencer become defunkt or would it be treated across the keyboard where a note could trigger a loop/pattern? i assume the individual hits would be accessed via the pads/keyboard but that would remove any swing etc you have built to the plugin.

i would like to see a video of this so i can get my head around it.

any chance of one popping up?
Old 16th December 2016
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
Revolution-606 has actually been sampled with extensive round robin. You need to be in 'analogue' mode to hear these. Listen to the snare drum and you should easily hear this - very organic. In regards to the 'velocity' levels - The original TR-606 of course features total control over accent - We sampled all of the accent levels for each drum sound, and routed these to velocity in Revolution-606. The sound is very different between the lowest and highest velocity (accent) levels. Again, this is keep the instrument as close as possible and capture all the nuances / tones of the original 606
sorry, you're absolutely correct. looking at the main sample folder, each of the six "velocity levels" uses a total of 12 different samples (even more than the 808 and 909, which use 7 samples each). i confused myself, the other day i was looking at the samples in the included Maschine version (which only uses one sample for each level) and that stuck in my memory.

as for the "velocity levels", i guess i need to check the TR-606 manual. i wasn't aware that it featured more than velocity on/off for each step. ... oh, i get it. just remembered that the 606 has an Accent level knob.

now i'm not sure why it was implemented the way that it is on 'Revolution 606'. too late now, but i can't help but think that there might have been a better way to approach this. like using the same accent on/off programming in the sequencer like on the others, but with a global Accent level knob that caused each instrument's different "accent 1-5" samples to be triggered on any accented steps depending on how this was set.

so the "proper" way to program this is to set all un-accented hits to the first (lowest) level, then set all accented hits to one of five levels above that (and have them all set to that same level). doesn't look like the manual makes any mention of this, and the levels in the factory patterns are all over the place.
Old 16th December 2016
  #11
assign a midi controller to velocity? turn that down.
or for a preset loop, open a midi control lane make a constant level for velocity and loop that block maybe

Last edited by golden beers; 16th December 2016 at 11:49 PM..
Old 16th December 2016
  #12
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This looks really good. A few questions for WA:

* Is there any way this can run on OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard?... What's the oldest version of Kontakt that will support it?

* How many round robins per drum+velocity (or perhaps this varies per sound?)?

* Has the UK price been announced yet?
Old 17th December 2016
  #13
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Now I'm super excited!! But my wallet is mad lol
Still need to get my hands on this bad boy! Just looks superb! 20,000 909 kick samples omg Can't wait to here them
Old 17th December 2016
  #14
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I wonder if there will be an offer for owners of other Wave Alchemy drum machines...
Old 17th December 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
I am happy to announce that Revolution is an NKS (Native Kontrol Standard) ready instrument. This means you can load it within Maschine and have TOTAL control over everything - just like with NI's own line of instruments
That's great to hear!
But does this mean that it could load as kits mapped to pads in maschine?
Or like other NKS ready instruments, load on just one pad and played in 'pad mode' or via a keyboard controller where the drum sounds are mapped to keys rather than pads?
Old 17th December 2016
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftech View Post
I wonder if there will be an offer for owners of other Wave Alchemy drum machines...
Seems their will be...
Old 17th December 2016
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftech View Post
I wonder if there will be an offer for owners of other Wave Alchemy drum machines...
not sure if i can say exactly, but yes, and it gets better if you own two or all three. very nice discount for those that own all three of them.
Old 18th December 2016
  #18
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pre-release demo available:

Revolution Demo | Drum Machine Plugin

downloading now. will report back, skimmed through the manual earlier and i'm thinking this thing will be fantastic.
Old 19th December 2016
  #19
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Going through the Manual now. Looks like all of the mixing functions of my analog rytm have been realized in this software. Let's hope they sound as nice! (I'm looking at you filter.)

Super stoked, will post my thoughts on the demo once i've given it a shot
Old 19th December 2016
  #20
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saw that Wave Alchemy posted this on KVR, so i figure it's ok to let those here know:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
We will indeed be offering a very tasty upgrade price to those who already own one or more of our older drum machine instruments (Transistor Revolution, Digital Revolution, Revolution-606)

The pricing will be as follows - If a customer owns:

• All 3 Revolution instruments - £29.95 (80% off)
• 2 Revolution instruments - £49.95 (66% off)
• 1 Revolution instrument - £74.95 (50% off)



For those who don't own any of our past drum instruments, the introductory price will be £119.95, with an RRP of £149.95.
pretty exceptional prices all the way around.
Old 19th December 2016
  #21
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so, i spent some time with the 'REVOLUTION' demo today...

- hate to say it, but it seems that the Swing/Shuffle is even more useless on this new version. wtf? doesn't seem to do much at all, i don't get it. can't get any sort of funky swing from this at all.

EDIT: seems that negative values cause the Swing function to operate like one would expect a Swing function to sound/operate. you know, like pretty much anything else that has a Swing function.


- there's no indication where most any of the knobs are set (a lot of VSTs display the current value somewhere when you make adjustments), and no sort of "double-click to return to default". sometimes it's a guessing game to set knobs back to 50% or defaults. hated this about the older ones, and no improvement here.

EDIT: press Ctrl and click (on Windows, Command and click on Mac) to return to default value. nice.


- the graphic for the drum module doesn't update very quickly when selecting the sound via MIDI control or using the buttons at the top of the mixer channels. pretty annoying, this switching was instant on the older products.

EDIT: not a big deal, but there is a noticeable lag updating the graphics when "playing" drum sounds via MIDI.


- fx are mostly the same, ranging from either "just ok" to "pretty bad". i'd rather not use most any of the fx at all. i'd love to remove those delay and reverb sends to make the GUI smaller (i'd love to hide that whole row of knobs beneath the drum module as well, they'd be better off on a module sub-page like the fx - big waste of space for a lot of things you'll probably set once per sound).

- filters are ok for some uses. thought they were pretty ugly at first when cranking the resonance, and the cutoff steps like crazy. not too bad when using the env though.

- sure doesn't seem like dotted 8th note delays are actually that, more like 1/4 note. actually, that's pretty much it. the delay is the same whether set to dotted 8ths or 1/4. unbelievable. when not set to host sync, delay time jumps in increments of ~15ms which makes it impossible dial in what you want. i don't see any way for finer adjustment.

- "sample start" and envelope Decay settings don't seem to have much effect. pretty much impossible to really cut the decay on any sounds. wtf. it's like they're locked to some ranges to cut down on their usefulness.

- a small detail, but it bothers me that setting the knobs to +/- 100% on the drum module doesn't match up with the indicator markings around the knob.

- i really wish the Accent LED for the "classic step sequencer" was brighter (maybe a bright orange instead of a dull orange/red?), i find it pretty hard to see.

ugh.

Last edited by jbuonacc; 20th December 2016 at 03:14 AM..
Old 19th December 2016
  #22
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Certainly sounds like functions are missing or just blindly skimped on

Decay especially should play an important role considering what this is supposed to be emulating

Maybe the demo is not functioning as they intend/ed but surely it's been tested
Soooooooo
Old 19th December 2016
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
Certainly sounds like functions are missing or just blindly skimped on
i don't think anything is "missing", other than the set configuration of drum sounds and lack of BD2, SD2, and TOM3.

Quote:
Decay especially should play an important role considering what this is supposed to be emulating
you can see with something like a cymbal that it's doing a little something, but for most sounds it has no real effect. sample decay was a bit odd in the older versions, but the opposite. pretty much anything below 50% cut the sound almost completely.

Quote:
Maybe the demo is not functioning as they intend/ed but surely it's been tested
you'd think so. the swing and delay things are so obvious though, i don't understand how they'd get through.
Old 19th December 2016
  #24
Gear Nut
 

I echo all the sentiments above, especially the shuffle being pretty wonky. I'd like to add that the compressor and EQ functionality is greatly diminished without the labeling or metering you'd come to expect. Also the digital effects seem to go from "I can't hear this at all" to "holy s*** that's way too much" without any serviceable middle ground.

Personally I would have preferred a GUI that had each module's traditional settings (the ones that change the original sample parameters) running down the strip and another strip below that with the additional digital envelopes. This way you could tweak the decay on your toms and kick drum without having to keep clicking around each one to do minor adjustments. I would gladly trade the EFX section for this.

All in all I think its gonna be cool, but I think a more streamlined product just focusing on what makes it unique (round robin sample manipulation) without all the extra cheesy digital EFX would've made it a better product overall. (For everyone who says "you don't haaave to use the efx if you don't want to," well it still takes up real estate on an already cramped GUI so yeah it is effecting the performance by cutting into space that could've been used to access each sample module as a whole instead of having to click around and select each one before tweaking the decay.

****

The biggest missed opportunity for me is that your locked into the drumkit layout they've provided. I would much prefer giving the user the ability to build a kit by selecting which type of module you wanted and dropping it in. (for example, I'd really like just one BD type module but 4 percussion modules so I can have two claps to layer alongside having access to claves and rimshots.) Right now your forced to look at a screen full of additional modules that you may never use (Two BD's, Two Snares, Three hihhats...) at the expense of not having access to other modules that you'd much rather be using... This is an example of myself wishing they had focused more on what makes this product unique and useful as opposed to adding all the extra mediocre processing.

Last edited by Nleif; 19th December 2016 at 07:10 AM.. Reason: TLDR
Old 19th December 2016
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nleif View Post
... The biggest missed opportunity for me is that your locked into the drumkit layout they've provided. I would much prefer giving the user the ability to build a kit by selecting which type of module you wanted and dropping it in. (for example, I'd really like just one BD type module but 4 percussion modules so I can have two claps to layer alongside having access to claves and rimshots.) Right now your forced to look at a screen full of additional modules that you may never use (Two BD's, Two Snares, Three hihhats...) at the expense of not having access to other modules that you'd much rather be using... This is an example of myself wishing they had focused more on what makes this product unique and useful as opposed to adding all the extra mediocre processing.
yep, can't stand being locked into set kit configurations like this. looks like there will be separate "Drum" and "Percussion" versions (like they did with 'Digital Revolution'), but still not the same as having each channel configurable how you'd like.

wish they'd include a generic "module" (in which you could load any of the available drum sounds) with everything else stripped out, so that you could sequence them inside Maschine or Ableton (or whatever else you might use).


i was pretty excited about this, but almost don't see any point in upgrading.

EDIT: after spending some more time with 'REVOLUTION' today and having a few things cleared up, i think i'll go for it. really confused/disappointed about some decisions that were made though.

Last edited by jbuonacc; 20th December 2016 at 03:17 AM..
Old 19th December 2016
  #26
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Agreed, a generic module would've been the tits and that's really what I had been wanting now that I've had a mess around. The samples still sound good of course, I just wish they were easier to access with all the parameters laid out on one screen like a traditional drum machine.

Still miffed that nearly a quarter of the available sounds are dedicated to "Toms"...
Old 19th December 2016
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
I am happy to announce that Revolution is an NKS (Native Kontrol Standard) ready instrument. This means you can load it within Maschine and have TOTAL control over everything - just like with NI's own line of instruments
In other words i dont have access to the samples i bought outside of the package you deliver?

I think you understood my question perfectly well (instrument vs. sample pack) and choose to answer it with your sales pitch. An honest no would have pissed me off less.

Btw. The usual stunning quality of samples in this Revolution instrument. Thats why i think its a shame its tied to NI Kontakt (their licensing, their filters, their FX, their unscalable GUI, etc.). I am on my way out of their eco-system. I want to have a choice in what host i use the samples.
Old 19th December 2016
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
In other words i dont have access to the samples i bought outside of the package you deliver?

I think you understood my question perfectly well (instrument vs. sample pack) and choose to answer it with your sales pitch. An honest no would have pissed me off less.
This is correct. Revolution is a serial protected instrument, and we decided that we are not prepared to give away all of the samples unprotected - which would result in the samples easily being shared and distributed on warez websites.

We didn't see the need for a Maschine specific pack, as the entire instrument and sample content can be controlled directly and very easily from Maschine / Komplete Kontrol - without having to even touch Revolution itself.

Revolution is an instrument (powered by samples), not a sample pack. I hope this helps.

I will provide more info on the NKS compatibility shortly - we are still finalizing some of the last details with Native Instruments
Old 19th December 2016
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
so, i spent some time with the 'REVOLUTION' demo today...

- hate to say it, but it seems that the Swing/Shuffle is even more useless on this new version. wtf? doesn't seem to do much at all, i don't get it. can't get any sort of funky swing from this at all.

- there's no indication where most any of the knobs are set (a lot of VSTs display the current value somewhere when you make adjustments), and no sort of "double-click to return to default". sometimes it's a guessing game to set knobs back to 50% or defaults. hated this about the older ones, and no improvement here.

- the graphic for the drum module doesn't update very quickly when selecting the sound via MIDI control or using the buttons at the top of the mixer channels. pretty annoying, this switching was instant on the older products.

- fx are mostly the same, ranging from either "just ok" to "pretty bad". i'd rather not use most any of the fx at all. i'd love to remove those delay and reverb sends to make the GUI smaller (i'd love to hide that whole row of knobs beneath the drum module as well, they'd be better off on a module sub-page like the fx - big waste of space for a lot of things you'll probably set once per sound).

- filters are ok for some uses. thought they were pretty ugly at first when cranking the resonance, and the cutoff steps like crazy. not too bad when using the env though.

- sure doesn't seem like dotted 8th note delays are actually that, more like 1/4 note. actually, that's pretty much it. the delay is the same whether set to dotted 8ths or 1/4. unbelievable. when not set to host sync, delay time jumps in increments of ~15ms which makes it impossible dial in what you want. i don't see any way for finer adjustment.

- "sample start" and envelope Decay settings don't seem to have much effect. pretty much impossible to really cut the decay on any sounds. wtf. it's like they're locked to some ranges to cut down on their usefulness.

- a small detail, but it bothers me that setting the knobs to +/- 100% on the drum module doesn't match up with the indicator markings around the knob.

- i really wish the Accent LED for the "classic step sequencer" was brighter (maybe a bright orange instead of a dull orange/red?), i find it pretty hard to see.

ugh.
Thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated. I will respond to each point individually.

1. In regards to the swing / shuffle. It sounds like you are using the 'shuffle' control rather than swing control. Revolution features separate swing and shuffle functions. To use Swing you need to use negative values on the swing control. 0 to minus 100% will give you swing. 0 to plus 100% will give you shuffle (as found on most vintage drum machines)

2. Could you please elaborate on this point? Switching between modules is pretty instant here, and we've not heard of any complaints on this from our beta testers.

3. Revolution Demo features only 2 Reverb IRs. The full instrument features 160. We spent a lot of time and effort recording custom high-end impulses from iconic reverb units such as the Lexicon 300L, AKG BX20 Spring, AMS RMX16 and many others at 96K, alongside wonderful acoustic rooms from world class studios, recorded with multiple mic positions. Can I ask what it is that you don't like about these? Perhaps you simply didn't like the 2 IRs we included for the demo, which I guess are personal preference.

In regards to the other FX (compressors etc). These are the same effects as included in many of NI's flagship products. The same goes for the filters. Can I ask what exactly you didn't like about them?

4. We will look into the delay. If what you suggested is true - this may be a bug and as such will be a simple fix

5. Sample Start - Yes, the whole point of sample start in Revolution is to cut very slightly into the transient of the selected drum sound, which in turn can either soften the sound, or change the tone of the sound in interesting ways.

6. Amp Decay - Yes, this is limited in range as we wanted to keep things simple from a user point of view. Remember - this is a digital envelope, and this parameter is different to any of the decay settings found in the actual drum modules. We have recorded every single decay possibility from every single drum machine / sound that has a 'decay' setting. These are found in each of the drum modules. This additional digital envelope simply allows you 'shape' the sound even more so if required

7. In regards to the +/- % amount above the drum module knobs. I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but this function routes the below knob to velocity, which can be played via MIDI or the sequencer in Revolution. For example, set the 808 Bass Drum's decay knob to fully left (shortest decay) - now drag the percentage control above it to 100%. Now you have full velocity control over the actual real analogue decay of the 808 Bass drum, both via MIDI and the sequencer. This is true for all of Revolution's drum module knobs, which can create some very interesting patterns - as this value is determined per step...

8.In regards to the global sequencer accent. I see this as a rather bright yellow here, and I can't help but disagree (in my onion) that this is hard to see. See the screenshot below:



The difference between unaccented and accented is clear. If we do receive a lot of messages from customers about this, we may consider changing the colour to red however

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Old 19th December 2016
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
Certainly sounds like functions are missing or just blindly skimped on

Decay especially should play an important role considering what this is supposed to be emulating

Maybe the demo is not functioning as they intend/ed but surely it's been tested
Soooooooo
I'd like to confirm again that ALL of the drum original parameters of all of the original drum machines are available in Revolution. Taking the 808 Bass Drum as an example - we recorded every single decay possibility available from 2 separate TR-808 drum machines (which are switchable). The same goes for every other parameter for all drum machines.

The decay control being referred to in the above post is an additional digital decay, which alters the sound after the 'real / analogue' decay found on the original machines. If you want to keep the sound and parameters exactly the same as the original machines, you can simply put the additional digital decay at it's default position, which bypasses it
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