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Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION' Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 23rd December 2016
  #91
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
some overview and tutorial videos posted on the website:

some pretty nifty features included for quick pattern programming. nice! check out the pattern "Reverse" and "Stutter" controls around 13:00. these are really cool because they "follow" the pattern timing and snap to the correct beat when you let off.
Yes, thanks for sharing the videos jbuonacc! They were a lot of fun to make and I'm hoping to do a few more in the coming days showing some more sound design examples and designing custom drum kits with Revolution
Old 23rd December 2016
  #92
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Outside View Post
Yes, thanks for sharing the videos jbuonacc!
glad to! they're very well done and there was a few things in the sequencing tutorial that i found helpful. doesn't look like a full list of key command shortcuts made it into the manual yet? a number of other things missing from the manual as well, including the errors (still says send C-1 to start/stop playback) and omissions that i mentioned earlier.

haven't been able to properly reply to this thread over the past few days, but i'll get to it as soon as i'm able. i've got a list of questions, ideas, and suggestions going that i'll post here.

really enjoying 'REVOLUTION' so far. thanks so much for swapping the Swing control positive/negative behavior, and for fixing the envelope Decay. much appreciated!
Old 24th December 2016
  #93
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
glad to! they're very well done and there was a few things in the sequencing tutorial that i found helpful. doesn't look like a full list of key command shortcuts made it into the manual yet? a number of other things missing from the manual as well, including the errors (still says send C-1 to start/stop playback) and omissions that i mentioned earlier.
Release day was a little hectic but we are planning a revised version of the manual early next week. I'll be sure to post here when that has happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
haven't been able to properly reply to this thread over the past few days, but i'll get to it as soon as i'm able. i've got a list of questions, ideas, and suggestions going that i'll post here.
Sounds great! Looking forward to hearing your questions, ideas and suggestions. As I mentioned before this will be an ongoing instrument that will see continued improvements over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
really enjoying 'REVOLUTION' so far. thanks so much for swapping the Swing control positive/negative behavior, and for fixing the envelope Decay. much appreciated!
Glad to hear you're enjoying it and not a problem! Thanks for pointing them out
Old 24th December 2016
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
It's good to hear that you found the videos useful! The sequencer video especially showcases lots of cool hidden features and shortcut commands
Hi!

Perhaps you or one of the new owners could chime in.
There are a few things i still don't understand. The answer will determine if i should pull the trigger on this or not.

1) Most important - is it possible (and how) to route the individual drum parts to individual audio tracks in my daw? I'd like to have the option of doing stuff such as use the kick as a source for sidechaining compression, or put my own effects on individual drum parts. So is it possible and how?

2) Is there some kind of 'song mode' where you chain patterns to create a full song? Or is it only possible the long way (i.e. dragging each pattern as midi file to the daw and creating a song from there)?

3) Is it possible to load my own samples to be used within the Revolution sequencer?

4) In what sense is it compatible with Maschine? Does its kits translate into Maschine format kits, assigned to pads? Or do the drum parts only correspond to keys on the keyboard? And if so - what does it mean that it's compatible with maschine - as opposed to anything else?

Thanks!
Old 24th December 2016
  #95
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Hi!
1) Most important - is it possible (and how) to route the individual drum parts to individual audio tracks in my daw? I'd like to have the option of doing stuff such as use the kick as a source for sidechaining compression, or put my own effects on individual drum parts. So is it possible and how?
Yes, this is possible and you can switch between routing to multiple channels and routing to the master bus with a single click. Alternately you can also change each output manually. There are included presets for Ableton, Logic and Maschine with this ready to go but it will work in any DAW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
2) Is there some kind of 'song mode' where you chain patterns to create a full song? Or is it only possible the long way (i.e. dragging each pattern as midi file to the daw and creating a song from there)?
Yes. All of the patterns and start / stop can be triggered by external MIDI commands which are listed in the manual and appear in descriptive colours on the Machine keyboard. It's very easy (and powerful!) to work with Revolution in this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
3) Is it possible to load my own samples to be used within the Revolution sequencer?
No. Due to the nature of the instrument and complexity this is not a feature offered by Revolution. But we are looking into future instruments which use this engine in creative new ways

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
4) In what sense is it compatible with Maschine? Does its kits translate into Maschine format kits, assigned to pads? Or do the drum parts only correspond to keys on the keyboard? And if so - what does it mean that it's compatible with maschine - as opposed to anything else?

Thanks!
All of Revolution's presets appear in the left hand Maschine browser. Revolution is an NKS instrument which means all of the parameters and controls are natively mapped to the Machine hardware so it behaves like a natural extension of Maschine itself. MIDI input is done through keyboard mode but each output channel will automatically appear on it's own Pad for external mixing using the included Maschine preset. This means it will behave just like it were being triggered by multiple pads.
Old 24th December 2016
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Outside View Post
Yes, this is possible and you can switch between routing to multiple channels and routing to the master bus with a single click. Alternately you can also change each output manually. There are included presets for Ableton, Logic and Maschine with this ready to go but it will work in any DAW.
Great!
Just to be 100% sure, i'm working with Cubase Pro 8. My OS is Windows - and i noticed in all the videos that they're talking about "commands", as in apple computer. Is that a problem?


Quote:
All of Revolution's presets appear in the left hand Maschine browser. Revolution is an NKS instrument which means all of the parameters and controls are natively mapped to the Machine hardware so it behaves like a natural extension of Maschine itself. MIDI input is done through keyboard mode but each output channel will automatically appear on it's own Pad for external mixing using the included Maschine preset. This means it will behave just like it were being triggered by multiple pads.
I have lots of NKS format instruments on Maschine and Kontakt (i don't have the Komplete Kontrol keyboard, though).
With NKS ready drum instruments/modules such as Battery or Polyplex - you get access to the various presets, but the kits do not correspond to the pads. They are loaded as a complete instrument on a single pad, and if you want to trigger them as pads you need to switch to "pad mode", which is basically the same as loading a piano sound on a pad. You switch to pad mode and the pads correspond to the keyboard notes - which isn't the same as having a dedicated sound for each pad.
So again, just to be exact and positively sure - does Revolution appear as kits assigned to pads in Maschine or not?
Just as an example (although from a different direction), on your 'Synth Drums' sample pack you also have Maschine format kits (labeled with a specific icon as well) and correspond to a complete pad arrangement.
So what's the case with Revolution?
Old 24th December 2016
  #97
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Outside View Post
Sounds great! Looking forward to hearing your questions, ideas and suggestions. As I mentioned before this will be an ongoing instrument that will see continued improvements over time.
I'd like some expansions with late 80's and early 90 machines from Roland, Yamaha and EMU.

The format of the plug in works nicely, so why not expand on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Hi!

Perhaps you or one of the new owners could chime in.

1) Most important - is it possible (and how) to route the individual drum parts to individual audio tracks in my daw? I'd like to have the option of doing stuff such as use the kick as a source for sidechaining compression, or put my own effects on individual drum parts. So is it possible and how?

2) Is there some kind of 'song mode' where you chain patterns to create a full song? Or is it only possible the long way (i.e. dragging each pattern as midi file to the daw and creating a song from there)?

3) Is it possible to load my own samples to be used within the Revolution sequencer?

4) In what sense is it compatible with Maschine? Does its kits translate into Maschine format kits, assigned to pads? Or do the drum parts only correspond to keys on the keyboard? And if so - what does it mean that it's compatible with maschine - as opposed to anything else?

Thanks!
Tested what you ask for.

1. Yes works. you just need to click one button and it spreads the sounds. If you want to use an own layout of outs, you can do it for every instrument independantly with a pull down menu in the GUI.

2. Only like the one that is within Maschine. You need to utilize note numbers.

3. Nope

4. Its cleveryl done actually. However you need to enable "midi select" in Revolution (little red "LED" in the top right corner). Then the parameter setup switches to the pad you hit. Like its done in Maschine itself.
Old 25th December 2016
  #98
Gear Nut
 

So I went to recreate a full 909 kit with revolution and I got everything but the percussion. For some reason "perc 1" I believe doesn't have the option for 909 samples but "perc 2" does. This means I had to choose between rimshot or clap in perc 2, and as neither were available in 1 I had an incomplete 909.

I'm assuming this is a bug? Can anyone else test this to see if they can get a complete 909 kit?

Cheers!
Old 25th December 2016
  #99
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nleif View Post
So I went to recreate a full 909 kit with revolution and I got everything but the percussion. For some reason "perc 1" I believe doesn't have the option for 909 samples but "perc 2" does. This means I had to choose between rimshot or clap in perc 2, and as neither were available in 1 I had an incomplete 909.

I'm assuming this is a bug? Can anyone else test this to see if they can get a complete 909 kit?
wow, you're right. by default, with the 808 Cowbell loaded to "Perc 1", trying to switch to another drum machine models lists all of them except for the 909.

you can load a full 909 kit (and other full drum machine kits) by using Kontakt's Snapshot loader. (hit the "+" sign if using it inside Komplete Kontrol to see the Kontakt header.) up at the top it says "Revolution Drums" (name of the Instrument), then "Revolution Drums" (name of the default Snapshot) below that with a dropdown arrow next to it. click on that and you can load the Factory (or User) kits. it has default kits for all the drum machines and a bunch of other kits that can be loaded. unfortunately, this seems to clear out all the patterns.

i noticed that when i load the 909 kit this way, the bug remains. i changed the 909 Rim in "Perc 1" to the 808 Cowbell and couldn't choose the 909 again from the selector.


ahh.. i get it now. change the 808 Cowbell to the 808 Rim (or any machine with a rimshot), and then it'll give you the option to choose the 909. seems to depend somewhat on which type of sound you have loaded, and whether or not the other drum machines feature that type of sound (no Cowbell on the 909). trying to switch machines when you have an 808Clav loaded only gives you three options. you should always have the option of switching to any of the available machines, no matter what type of sound you currently have loaded. for now, just choose a similar type of sound before switching. might actually have to switch a couple times, using a "middle man" machine, depending on the sound you're looking for.
Old 25th December 2016
  #100
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
*Lots of ongoing thoughts and feedback*
I've been monitoring this thread keenly because the product sounds so cool. You seem to have some deeper insights into the instrument, which is great. I have two questions:

1) What advantages / disadvantages does this product have for someone who is interested in drum programming with vintage sounds, versus using something like Nerve or Ableton Racks paired with Wave Alchemy samples? Sound quality, ease of use and workflow are some basic factors.

2) Have your earlier technical concerns with the product been largely alleviated by the developer at this point?

Thanks! (If anyone else can also provide insight, even the dev, that would be welcome too)
Old 25th December 2016
  #101
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmaster View Post
1) What advantages / disadvantages does this product have for someone who is interested in drum programming with vintage sounds, versus using something like Nerve or Ableton Racks paired with Wave Alchemy samples?
The main advantage is the heavy use of round robin. You cant do this when using individual samples. To me thats important: Here is an example why:



The main disadvantage is to be tied to the format. It works nicely for me, but a lot of taste is involved when it comes to workflows. Best to try the demo if it fits yours.
Old 28th December 2016
  #102
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmaster View Post
1) What advantages / disadvantages does this product have for someone who is interested in drum programming with vintage sounds, versus using something like Nerve or Ableton Racks paired with Wave Alchemy samples? Sound quality, ease of use and workflow are some basic factors.
as was already said, the main advantage of 'REVOLUTION' (along with 'Transistor Revolution 808/909' and 'Revolution 606') is the triggering of round-robin samples for each hit. at least for the analog machines, all the digital drum machines still use single samples per sound. in the case of the digital machines, there's not a big difference in using this or any other virtual drum machine that can load samples.

looks like Nerve doesn't offer round-robin playback of samples (do any other virtual drum machines do this?), otherwise it might be a contender. looks pretty nice for the most part.

for some reason, i've always found Ableton 'Drum Racks' (and programming them) to feel a bit "disconnected" in use. not sure why, a lot of people love them.

generally, i most enjoy programming drums inside Maschine, but (again) this doesn't allow for utilizing round-robin samples either. that's why the individual "modules" of the earlier Wave Alchemy "revolution" products are so nice. you can use whatever method of drum sequencing that you're most comfortable with and make use of their round-robin samples/engine without being restricted to using the full interface.

Quote:
2) Have your earlier technical concerns with the product been largely alleviated by the developer at this point?
i'd say that many of them have, very impressed with their willingness to consider the needs of their users. there's still a number of things that i'm not too thrilled about, but i'd say that this is probably the case with most everything that i use.
Old 28th December 2016
  #103
Nice looking product!

Has anyone tried using it as an Ableton drumrack, via Push controller?
Old 29th December 2016
  #104
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goony's Avatar
It does come with a drum rack for Ableton but for some reason it seems messed up, as some multi outs are not working. i dont have time to figure it out yet, as I dont have a lot of experience with Kontakt. Just checked it in Maschine and cannot get it in pad mode either :(
Old 29th December 2016
  #105
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goony View Post
It does come with a drum rack for Ableton but for some reason it seems messed up, as some multi outs are not working. i dont have time to figure it out yet, as I dont have a lot of experience with Kontakt. Just checked it in Maschine and cannot get it in pad mode either :(
I have no idea about ableton, but it works great in my Maschine. You used the delivered Maschine group, right? Everything is already set up and working...
Old 29th December 2016
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
I have no idea about ableton, but it works great in my Maschine. You used the delivered Maschine group, right? Everything is already set up and working...
I'm not sure what you mean.
In Maschine, when i load one instance of revolution it loads this instance into ONE pad of the 16 pads.
If you want to play the different drums using all the pads you have to 'shift + pad' to enter 'keyboard mode' where the pads correspond to keyboard notes.
But it's not the same as having these as proper 'Maschine kits'.
Old 29th December 2016
  #107
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean.
In Maschine, when i load one instance of revolution it loads this instance into ONE pad of the 16 pads.
If you want to play the different drums using all the pads you have to 'shift + pad' to enter 'keyboard mode' where the pads correspond to keyboard notes.
But it's not the same as having these as proper 'Maschine kits'.
Part of the installation is a Maschine group file. In this you have the Revolution in slot 1 and all other slots (sounds) are midi mapped to the first slot. No need to use pad mode with this group. This way you can select and play the instruments with the pads.

Proper Maschine kits couldnt do round robin.
Old 29th December 2016
  #108
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goony's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Part of the installation is a Maschine group file. In this you have the Revolution in slot 1 and all other slots (sounds) are midi mapped to the first slot. No need to use pad mode with this group. This way you can select and play the instruments with the pads.

Proper Maschine kits couldnt do round robin.
Yes I had the Maschine group file, but when I use that I have no sound on the other slots
Old 29th December 2016
  #109
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goony View Post
Yes I had the Maschine group file, but when I use that I have no sound on the other slots
May be something in your Maschine preferences.. no clue .. works for me. Including individual outs for the instruments.

Padmode seems to work too for Zahush.
Old 29th December 2016
  #110
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goony's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
May be something in your Maschine preferences.. no clue .. works for me. Including individual outs for the instruments.

Padmode seems to work too for Zahush.
I figured out the Ableton Drum rack, and now have it fully working within Ableton 's Drum racks, as for Maschine, well it sort of works, if I bring in the Maschine group file, I can hear the sounds only if I put Mashine Jam into Keyboard mode, if i try to use it in Pad mode (drum rack mode) i get nothing.. Is it supposed to be this way?
Old 29th December 2016
  #111
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Coorec's Avatar
I dont have Jam, so i couldnt tell. On my Maschine mkI controller i dont need no keyboard mode for Revolution to work as advertised.

That being said, i am sure the controller doesnt matter the slightest. Probably something in your Maschine preferences or your card setup needs attention.
Old 29th December 2016
  #112
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goony's Avatar
I get audio with the controller in keyboard mode but cant get pad mode to work properly, weird. Dont suppose you could screenshot your maschine routings when using Revolution. so I can view them against mine, or maybe save the group and see if I can import into mine. It is a great sounding collection thou
Old 30th December 2016
  #113
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
I dont have Jam, so i couldnt tell. On my mkI controller i dont need no keyboard mode for Revolution to work as advertised.
uhh... it defaults to Maschine's "Keyboard Mode" when you load the Project file into Maschine, you probably didn't even notice that it's not in Pad Mode. all it's doing is playing the first Instrument slot of the Group in Keyboard Mode. that's why the drum sounds are so haphazardly laid out on the pads, it's going chromatically the same way they are using a keyboard controller with 'REVOLUTION'. it'd be a lot better if you could re-map the key assignments, or if this Maschine Project used a custom version of the .nki file that had them mapped out more sensibly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goony View Post
I figured out the Ableton Drum rack, and now have it fully working within Ableton 's Drum racks, as for Maschine, well it sort of works, if I bring in the Maschine group file, I can hear the sounds only if I put Mashine Jam into Keyboard mode, if i try to use it in Pad mode (drum rack mode) i get nothing.. Is it supposed to be this way?
yes, this is how it works. in this 'REVOLUTION' Maschine Group, the only Instrument slot (1-16 of the Group) that's actually doing anything is the first one. not sure about Jam, but on Maschine it loads this Group in Keyboard Mode by default. all the others are used only for routing the individual sounds through, so that you can use them in Maschine's Mixer and for routing the sounds to external outputs in your DAW. yeah, it's a bit confusing. Pad Mode is useless in this case.
Old 30th December 2016
  #114
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goony's Avatar
I got it working in pad mode now, i find it easier sometimes this way when step sequencing, so all good.
Old 30th December 2016
  #115
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goony View Post
I got it working in pad mode now ...
how so? what do you mean?
Old 30th December 2016
  #116
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
uhh... it defaults to Maschine's "Keyboard Mode" when you load the Project file into Maschine, you probably didn't even notice that it's not in Pad Mode.
Yes you are right. I didnt pay enough attention and tried to be smarter than many here without double checking.

Sorry for the confusion.
Old 30th December 2016
  #117
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goony's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
how so? what do you mean?
I mean that i can now trigger Revolution with the 16 pads in pad mode same as a maschine drum kit. I did this by putting my controller into pad mode then on sound 1 dropping the root note down to C1, then all corresponding sounds you adjust the transpose in the midi input tab.
Old 30th December 2016
  #118
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goony View Post
I mean that i can now trigger Revolution with the 16 pads in pad mode same as a maschine drum kit. I did this by putting my controller into pad mode then on sound 1 dropping the root note down to C1, then all corresponding sounds you adjust the transpose in the midi input tab.
nice! so you're using the Maschine sequencer and just triggering 'REVOLUTION' via (internal) MIDI?


EDIT: just set it up myself. man, this is excellent! i moved 'REVOLUTION' to sound slot 16 to keep it separated, and set the rest up like this:

1 - BD1
2 - BD2
3 - SD1
4 - SD2
5 - TOM1
6 - TOM2
7 - TOM3
8 - PERC1
9 - HH1
10 - HH2
11 - HH3
12 - PERC2
13 - CYM1
14 - CYM2
15 - (empty)
16 - 'REVOLUTION'

nice comfortable layout, with flexible Maschine sequencing. this way you can even Mute/Solo the pads like normal, and even use Note Repeat. this is f'ing great, thanks for bringing this up! with the way they had it set up i saw it as useless and wasn't even going to bother with using it inside Maschine. i don't think i would have taken the time to figure out changing it up if you hadn't mentioned it.


this is how i thought they would have done it (i mentioned this earlier in this thread or the other one), the way it is now makes no sense to me. why use the internal 'REVOLUTION' sequencer if you're using it inside Maschine anyway?

i'll also continue to use it on its own track inside Ableton as well, i like using it like that too.


RE-EDIT: hmm, Note Repeat is acting pretty strangely when trying to record it. might not be able to use that after all.

RE-RE-EDIT: ok, looks like Note Repeat doesn't record correctly when it's "locked" or if you have it set to stay on after pushing it. if just holding it down it works ok. either way, for some reason it also causes it to record on the 'REVOLUTION' slot as well. you need to go back and delete those notes, or maybe just ignore them?

Last edited by jbuonacc; 30th December 2016 at 12:37 PM..
Old 30th December 2016
  #119
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goony View Post
I mean that i can now trigger Revolution with the 16 pads in pad mode same as a maschine drum kit. I did this by putting my controller into pad mode then on sound 1 dropping the root note down to C1, then all corresponding sounds you adjust the transpose in the midi input tab.
Great news indeed! I have to admit I wasn't aware this was possible either but we will certainly update the template so this is the default going forward. Great work goony and really happy to hear you guys are enjoying the instrument
Old 30th December 2016
  #120
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goony's Avatar
No problem, gotta admit, had my head scratching at times working this out over 2 days, but glad it works this way as I find it easier to use Maschine sequencer, I rarely use any drum machines sequencer hardware or software, I tend to use whichever host Im using, either Maschine or Ableton seqencers.
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