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Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION' Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 30th December 2017
  #301
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
the Maschine integration for 'REVOLUTION' is pretty nice actually. this seems more complicated with the layering, but maybe not too much.
Can you change the drum sound from 808 to 909, or the module from kick to snare without using a mouse?

I dont say WA does a bad job. The opposite is true. But they have to work with Kontakt, and that forces limitations on them.

People asking about this kind of instruments, should know these limits.
Old 30th December 2017
  #302
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Can you change the drum sound from 808 to 909, or the module from kick to snare without using a mouse?
do you really need to do every little thing from the controller? how often do you need to choose between 808/909/whatever? that's stuff you set once and get on with it. everyone thinks they need everything right there, when most of it is set and forget.

what you can do is this:

- knob 8 (on the first "page") switches the focus of the controller between the 14 different sounds (BD1, BD2, ... PERC2). when switching sounds, all parameter pages switch to show the parameters for that individual sound. your "kit" does need to be set up using the mouse, choosing whichever sound for each of the 14 sound slots. simple.

- by default, all the parameters for each sound are laid out on 16 "pages". this layout can be fully edited and saved with your own configuration. of course, you never need immediate access to half of that stuff (especially if you're not using the internal fx sends) so you could easily trim it down to having just the useful parameters set up how you'd like.

- really quick to get patterns going using the Maschine sequencer to trigger the sounds, though the 'REVOLUTION' sequencer itself is pretty cool in some ways. could always use a bit of both, or the arpeggiator, or even trigger it with some nutty Reaktor sequencer.

it is a pain how it's set up in one instrument slot in Maschine and being triggered by the others. whenever you select a sound to program in the sequencer, it steals focus from the parameter pages and you have to select slot 16 again to edit the sounds. might be a way around this that i'm not thinking of at the moment (been a while since i've used it), besides making Group or Master level macros.

anyway, yeah, you can control most everything from the Maschine hardware as it is. we covered this all this before, might only be a few pages back since this thread has slowed down quite a bit since then.


i've started making templates to control the older UVI drum machines (Darklight, Emulation I/II, Beast, etc) based on this. not too bad for as limited as they are, killer sound.
Old 30th December 2017
  #303
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Coorec's Avatar
Why are you telling me this? I know all that and still i made my assessment the way i did.
I have made my experiences with Revolution and from the look of it you can transfer most of them to Evolution. Thats what i told the guy who was asking..

i dont need help zo set my rig up atm, mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
do you really need to do every little thing from the controller?
yes, absolutely. Its either all or nothing. If i have to get back to mouse, i may as well do everything with mouse.
Hence my assessment "build around mouse use"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
how often do you need to choose between 808/909/whatever?
Thats the only thing i need Evolution for in Maschine actually. Maschine doesnt have round robin. So all i do with Evolution is switching sounds and sample sets. Processing, mixing and sequencing is done by Maschine and VSTs. All the processing and sequencing stuff is just humbug, costs CPU, adds to load time, etc.. unless you use Evolution and Kontakt stand alone, which i dont think many people do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
that's stuff you set once and get on with it. everyone thinks they need everything right there, when most of it is set and forget.
I think you dont use your Maschine as a drum machine. Or may be you didnt use sample based drum machines before. Switching thru the sounds and setting up a kit is 90% of the work. In my workflow anways.
Old 30th December 2017
  #304
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roaringwave View Post
Does it have a note trigger like the mpc or Mashine or Battery 3. eg; Can you hold down a note and have it play back in 8th,16th,32nd, 64th and triplets automatically?
if it works like 'REVOLUTION', no. it does have a pretty cool "stutter" feature (like Beat Repeat) that re-triggers the 16th note step that you hold it at. hit A#3 while the seq is running. afaik it's set at 16th's, and can't be changed. would be cool if it could do 8th or quarter notes as well. what's great is that it picks up at the proper place in the pattern when you let off it. i thought this would be lame, but you can do some pretty nice stuff with it. sounds very "natural" in some way.

[however... last i checked it was "broken" if using any swing/shuffle, as it would through your whole pattern out of sync with the host when it picked back up.]


A#3 : Sequencer Stutter - When pressed this key momentarily causes the
sequencer position to repeat or stutter over the current step. When released the
Sequence Step returns to it’s expected position.This can be helpful for live
performances and jamming with the sequence. Especially useful for creating
tension and builds along with live automating the master filter.
Old 30th December 2017
  #305
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Curious as to whether these kits' sample sets are:

1) Slimmed-down versions of the Revolution ones, sacrificing layers and most if not all RR samples
2) Existing ones from previous libraries
3) Completely-new ones
the only kits in 'REVOLUTION' that featured RR are the Roland analogs (808, 909, 606, CR78, CR8000). none had any "layers". everything else is just a single sample per sound (of which they have several "processed" versions of). each of the analog machines also had a "digital" setting which used a single sample per sound. this is most likely what was used for 'EVOLUTION'.

just looked closer at this... it's a set of samples, plus three processed "tape" variants. i would guess that they just use the same single sound samples of all these machines from 'REVOLUTION'. they've said before that they don't even have access to some of the machines that were sampled (Oberheim DX, etc), i really doubt that these are new samples being used here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
... I can't help but wonder if there's much, if any overlap sound-wise with Revolution 'though.
a ton, at least with those classic drum machine sounds. this has a whole lot more to it than that though.

Quote:
I mean, I could live without the uber accuracy of the Revolution samples if I could mangle similar sounds with sufficient finesse in Evolution.
the reason that 'REVOLUTION' exists is because it was quite hard to "mangle similar sounds with sufficient finesse" (yuck) with the usual means. without the "uber accuracy of the Revolution samples" you're right back where we all started.

actually, after hearing you talk about it... no, it doesn't matter. nothing matters. just use whatever. bro.
Old 31st December 2017
  #306
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Hey, thanks heaps for your time, man.

I'm looking for a single go-to electronic-drum VI, so it's not as simple as just using "whatever". Don't actually need sequencing or FX features, just a shedload of authentic-sounding voices to choose from and rock-solid reliability.

Looked at all the usual suspects. Still deciding, but I like the way WA goes about its business. I chatted with Dan quite a bit much earlier in the year, and IMHO these guys rock. Thanks again, brother.
Old 31st December 2017
  #307
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roaringwave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
if it works like 'REVOLUTION', no. it does have a pretty cool "stutter" feature (like Beat Repeat) that re-triggers the 16th note step that you hold it at. hit A#3 while the seq is running. afaik it's set at 16th's, and can't be changed. would be cool if it could do 8th or quarter notes as well. what's great is that it picks up at the proper place in the pattern when you let off it. i thought this would be lame, but you can do some pretty nice stuff with it. sounds very "natural" in some way.

[however... last i checked it was "broken" if using any swing/shuffle, as it would through your whole pattern out of sync with the host when it picked back up.]


A#3 : Sequencer Stutter - When pressed this key momentarily causes the
sequencer position to repeat or stutter over the current step. When released the
Sequence Step returns to it’s expected position.This can be helpful for live
performances and jamming with the sequence. Especially useful for creating
tension and builds along with live automating the master filter.
Wow. That sounds like a really nice feature. I am not familiar with Revolution. I just checked it out on their website. Looks really cool! It comes with 8gigs of samples, wow! That should cover all bases! But let me ask you something, can it import smpls? Not saying that it's necessary considering the huge library that it comes with.

I like it! But honestly, I got too many drum vsti's. So I am getting rid of the ones that I don't use that much. For now, I am only using NI BATTERY 3. I have terabytes of smpls in my sonic pallette to import and mangle like a freak when I get 'that' urge.

Does revolution resample? What about the filters? It's cool that it has its own sequencer. Big plus for that! Nothing like working independently with a beat before the DAW!
Standalone mode? Quick, quick quick!!
Old 2nd January 2018
  #308
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mpresev's Avatar
How are the 909 kicks. Are fat and punchy?
Old 2nd January 2018
  #309
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roaringwave View Post
... It comes with 8gigs of samples, wow! That should cover all bases!
well, most of the samples in 'REVOLUTION' are multi-samples of every possible setting on the Roland x0x machines. this is for the realistic sounding "round robin" feature, so that each hit is a little different like on a real analog. then they sampled pretty much all of the individual pitch settings for each sound on all the digital drum machines (if pitch adjustment was available on the original machine). then there's a million "processed" variations of each of these sounds. lots of duplicates, basically. all you get is the original sounds from an assortment of classic machines. (maybe 80-100 sounds total?) overall i would think that the new 'EVOLUTION' would be more of a "cover all the bases" sort of instrument.

when it comes to vintage drum machines, as long as you don't need the "authenticity" of the round-robin sampling, the top "all in one" collection is 'Beatbox Anthology 2' by UVI. i was shocked when i first tried that out (v1 actually), they have pretty much every drum machine ever made and they sampled all the individual pitches as well. 'BBA2' also has a decent sequencer, similar to 'REVOLUTION'.

Quote:
But let me ask you something, can it import smpls?
nope, which is unfortunate. i guess? i think it's better not to get too tied to using one "drum machine VST" for everything, i use these things as "virtual classic drum machines" and that's about it. i'll use a specific sampler plugin for any samples, and take advantage of whatever unique features that sampler might have. nothing stopping me from doing hats or percussion on a separate channel with just a "regular" synth either. i prefer to change it up, when i think of it.

Quote:
... For now, I am only using NI BATTERY 3. I have terabytes of smpls in my sonic pallette to import and mangle like a freak when I get 'that' urge.

Does revolution resample? What about the filters?
nope, nothing like that. the filters are nothing exciting (if not just crap), the standard Kontakt filters. might be the same as in Battery? have you tried TAL 'Sampler'? that's got a really nice collection of Hollow Sun samples included, plenty of classic machine sounds in there. also, lots of cool Reaktor ensembles and other stuff for playing around with a big sample collection.

Quote:
It's cool that it has its own sequencer. Big plus for that! Nothing like working independently with a beat before the DAW!
Standalone mode? Quick, quick quick!!
yes, i found the standalone mode to be pretty nice. i need to get these running on my new system.
Old 2nd January 2018
  #310
Gear Maniac
 
roaringwave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post


yes, i found the standalone mode to be pretty nice. i need to get these running on my new system.
Whoa! Man that thing is a beast still imo. And the way that I have been hearing this music lately, I do not think that you need much drums in your music to carve you out a nice hit. And yes, you have definitely got something that's fully capable of being the backbone of a hit. The sounds are all there with no need for any other drum vsti's! You can even use your DAWs sequencer to take the sequencing to another level if you choose to. The World is Yours

All the best. And please keep me informed
Old 3rd January 2018
  #311
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
... If not, then I want to get Revolution.. I only really care about the 909/808 and EMU drum sets.
are you using a round-robin sample set for the 909/808 in Geist? if not, then i don't know if this would be worth it for you. looks like it's roughly $200, that's a lot if you can get by without those detailed analog kits. there's plenty of 909, 808, and Drumulator samples out there.

would you use it standalone inside Kontakt, or as a VST in a DAW? do you have Maschine, Push, or any other controller?
Old 3rd January 2018
  #312
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
WA team,

Sorry if this is a silly question, but what exactly would one be missing out on if one were to skip Revolution and go directly to Evolution?

I mean sample, processing and functionality-wise.
Hey Monkey Man,

Evolution and Revolution are totally different instruments, with different engines and totally different sound content.

In short, Revolution gives you very authentic sounding emulations of 14 vintage drum machines, whereas Evolution doesn't emulate anything. It is totally fresh and features no sounds from Revolution. Evolution is powered by 28,000 drum samples (both electronic and acoustic), along with sound design tools (transients, layers, foley, prepared acoustic drums, found sound and much more) - allowing you to layer / blend with XY Pads, modulate with step lock parameter / FX sequencer and macro controls, and much more.

They can't really be compared as they are targeting different areas.

You can get a very brief overview of the raw sound of Evolution by listening to the audio demo attached below. This is just Evolution (one instance per loop) and with no external processing at all, showing off a very small amount of what is possible and utilizing around 750 sounds from the 28,000 sound library that powers Evolution - all using the internal sequencer and in some cases, modulation, step-lock sequencing etc
Attached Files

evolution_pattern_demo_short.mp3 (15.47 MB, 2052 views)


Last edited by golden beers; 28th January 2018 at 11:58 AM..
Old 3rd January 2018
  #313
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roaringwave View Post
Does it have a note trigger like the mpc or Mashine or Battery 3. eg; Can you hold down a note and have it play back in 8th,16th,32nd, 64th and triplets automatically?
Note Repeat / something very similar to this is being worked on for the free 1.1 update of Evolution + lots of other new cool stuff
Old 3rd January 2018
  #314
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Well, according to the email I just received from WA many have been asking about the library content. Turns out that at first glance, at least a dozen vintage / classic machines were sampled and the models constitute the bulk of those represented in Revolution AFAICT, so that overlap I was hoping for is there, although I suspect the full detail and RR functionality for these kits that's available in Revolution will have been sacrificed.

Curious as to whether these kits' sample sets are:

1) Slimmed-down versions of the Revolution ones, sacrificing layers and most if not all RR samples
2) Existing ones from previous libraries
3) Completely-new ones

Only the WA team can tell us this... hint hint, team...
To confirm this, I can say that absolutely Zero sounds from Revolution have been used in Evolution. Evolution was built and designed using over 100 sound sources, machines, synths, acoustic percussion
, and from these 100 sources, only around 6 or 7 are the same as the sources used for Revolution (for example 808/909). But the sounds in Evolution are totally new. For example, if we used a 909 / 808, it was in a creative way - layering an 808 sub behind a snappy modern kick as just one example. All sounds in Evolution have been tastefully 'designed' to give a fresh sound.

We went through great lengths with the acoustic sound sources for Evolution too, recording everything over a long period in world class drum rooms, using unconventional mic techniques, bowing, breaking, re-amping, layering, dropping things on drum heads, recording tape hiss/ vinyl noise / re-recording and pitching to analogue tape etc.

See some photos of one of the recording sessions attached attached
Attached Thumbnails
Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'-evo_01.jpg   Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'-evo_02.jpg   Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'-evo_03.jpg   Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'-evo_04.jpg   Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'-evo_05.jpg  

Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'-evo_06.jpg  
Old 3rd January 2018
  #315
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crims View Post
Was looking for an Evolution thread but couldn't find one (seem to remember there was one, but now i can't see it).

I own Revolution and i would simply like to know if the 909 808 etc samples are the same in both these products, and the obvious follow up is: If they are not the same what exactly is the difference?
Totally different, see my above reply
Old 3rd January 2018
  #316
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
it probably doesn't have the multi-samples and round robin triggering, but single samples per sound of 808/909/etc. just a guess, but i'd be surprised if it were more than that.

does this not have single "modules" like they eventually added (sort of) with 'REVOLUTION'? don't see that mentioned anywhere.
Single Modules and much more will be coming as part of the 1.1 Update to Evolution. Free to existing users, just like with Revolution
Old 3rd January 2018
  #317
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Evolution seems more to be about layering different drum sounds whilst Revolution focusses on authentic classic sound.

Again its mainly programmed around mouse use, which will render it pointless for the most drum enthusiasts i guess.

WA processes and samples themself, which so to be commended. Therein lies the strength of their libraries imo. Its no cook up off internet samples.

However due to this they seem to be forced to use Kontakt as platform to protect their samples (understandable!). The problem is Kontakt doesnt allow certain switches to be controlled by hardware. Basically whenever you have to use a menu. And that kills all hardware integration right there.
Controlling menus / banks of sounds with NKS / Maschine / Komplete Kontrol can be done in Evolution in fact

And hopefully soon with Push also.
Old 3rd January 2018
  #318
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Can you change the drum sound from 808 to 909, or the module from kick to snare without using a mouse?

I dont say WA does a bad job. The opposite is true. But they have to work with Kontakt, and that forces limitations on them.

People asking about this kind of instruments, should know these limits.
This is possible in Evolution, and we will try and make this possible in Revolution eventually too
Old 3rd January 2018
  #319
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

To those who had older questions about Revolution, lots of these things will be fixed in a 1.5 update later this year, plus many more features. I believe I have responded to most of you via e-mail support, but if not, feel free to e-mail us through our web form and we'd be happy to help and take on board your suggestions for future development, as always
Old 3rd January 2018
  #320
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
This is possible in Evolution, and we will try and make this possible in Revolution eventually too
Well, my knowledge of coding in Kontakt is basically non-existant, but this seemed to be a fact everyone repeated.
If you passed this huge obstacle i can only congratulate you and look very forward to this Revolution update.

Well done WA!
Old 3rd January 2018
  #321
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roaringwave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave alchemy View Post
Note Repeat / something very similar to this is being worked on for the free 1.1 update of Evolution + lots of other new cool stuff
Now you're talking baby !!! That is the most important feature to have on any drum vst. Without it, most ppl that make trap and other new styles would continue to use FL studio's piano roll or their daw's sequencer (which I find rather awkward with 'my' workflow, btw I am a Cubase user (composer).

Also I would like to offer your company a great and exciting feature that you guys really need to implement along to the note repeat addition.

Make the note repeat also be able to make the 'midi-data' notes visible 'if' possible in the vst itself or, 'and' most importantly, make the note-data repeat notes transferrable to the DAW when I record the vsti's sequencer data into my daw or playing it without using the drums sequencer, using my daw's sequencer and composing manually.

In other words: I want to be able to 'see' the note-repeat midi-data, and not just be able to 'hear' it, HUGE DIFFERENCE.

The latter IS A MUST.

This way, the user can open up their piano-roll and do more microscopic editing inside of their DAW, and even assign the note-data to other vsti's etc etc 'if' necessary. This is something that BATTERY 3 does not do. These kinda features will catapult this exciting Drum Vst into the Oblivion!!! Guaranteed !!!

Happy New Year's to you guys at Wave Alchemy!!!

Last edited by roaringwave; 4th January 2018 at 07:33 PM..
Old 4th January 2018
  #322
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Jeezo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roaringwave View Post
Now you're talking baby !!! That is the most important feature to have on any drum vst. Without it, most ppl that make trap and other new styles would continue to use FL studio's piano roll or their daw's sequencer (which I find rather awkward with 'my' workflow, btw I am a Cubase user (composer).

Also I would like to offer your company a great and exciting feature that you guys really need to implement along to the note repeat addition.

Make the note repeat also be able to make the 'midi-data' notes visible 'if' possible in the vst itself or, 'and' most importantly, make the note-data repeat notes transferrable to the DAW when I record the vsti's sequencer data into my daw or playing it without using the drums sequencer, using my daw's sequencer and composing manually.

In other words: I want to be able to 'see' the note-repeat midi-data, and not just be able to 'hear' it, HUGE DIFFERENCE.

The latter IS A MUST.

This way, the user can open up their piano-roll and do more microscopic editing inside of their DAW, and even assign the note-data to other vsti's etc etc 'if' necessary. This is something that BATTERY 3 does not do. These kinda feature will catapult this exciting Drum Vst into the Oblivion!!! Guaranteed !!!

Happy New Year's to you guys at Wave Alchemy!!!
Imho if you're serious about beat making (note repat and over great stuff) grab yourself a second hand maschine(HW + soft) , it's selling at 150 euros !! and you will have hell fun with revolution and others inside maschine !!
Old 4th January 2018
  #323
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roaringwave's Avatar
The Mashine is definitely not for me, a composer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Imho if you're serious about beat making (note repat and over great stuff) grab yourself a second hand maschine(HW + soft) , it's selling at 150 euros !! and you will have hell fun with revolution and others inside maschine !!
I know. But I don't find the hybrid Mashine interesting. Especially the sequencer. I'm a composer. I need a real sequencer that does tempo, time-signature changes and be able to export it as a 'tempo-track' on the fly at any point in any measure on any beat. I do this in Cubase strictly. If I need to do a note-repeat, I will use Battery 3 for now.
I am not really enthusiastic about the Hybrid Drum Machine. It's great for making beats. But offers me nothing that I couldn't do on a HW SAMPLER. I am old school. Set up a HW sampler and I go to work when I feel like making beats. Simple. No other peripherals are necessary for me to get the job done. Mashine is great, but definitely not for me.

Btw, Thank you for heads up. I just don't normally write music like that (using a hybrid). I'm a pianist/guitarist/Drummer. I like to play real stuff and blend it in with the new sound.


So, I will wait to see if Wave Alchemy will address the issues that I had told them about. If they can do what I said do, then I will most definitely purchase it for my sonic palette. Revolution is something that I can use for sure. I definitely don't need another HW peripheral cluttering up my camp.

All the best

Happy New Year's

Last edited by roaringwave; 8th January 2018 at 06:04 PM..
Old 4th January 2018
  #324
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Wave Alchemy, thank you so much for your comprehensive answers to my posts:

Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'
and
Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'



Didn't quote as it's redundant and a waste of space.
Old 4th January 2018
  #325
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Wave Alchemy, thank you so much for your comprehensive answers to my posts:

Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'
and
Wave Alchemy 'REVOLUTION'



Didn't quote as it's redundant and a waste of space.
You're very welcome
Old 24th January 2018
  #326
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
How are the 909 kicks. Are fat and punchy?
Are you referring to Revolution or Evolution?

Revolution's kicks are true to the original machines and were recorded in as much detail as possible using high end conversion at 96K.

Evolution's kicks are of the same high quality, but more processed, and very punchy without the need for external processing.

Both will give you different results
Old 24th January 2018
  #327
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mpresev's Avatar
I've been using GEIST for my drums when I'm creating tunes for the last 4 years.

I think it's time to change to Revolution. I want those EMU sounds with 909 kick for example.

Good price too at 150.00. Sometimes I see it for 100.00. Definitely will be getting.
Old 24th January 2018
  #328
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
I've been using GEIST for my drums when I'm creating tunes for the last 4 years.

I think it's time to change to Revolution. I want those EMU sounds with 909 kick for example.

Good price too at 150.00. Sometimes I see it for 100.00. Definitely will be getting.
Thanks for the support mpresev!

Let me know if you have another questions about Revolution, or Evolution.

Although it is not publically available yet on our website, we can currently offer a bundle deal on both Revolution and Evolution. If you (or anyone else) is interested, just send us a message via our website or PM here on Gearslutz and I will tell you more
Old 27th January 2018
  #329
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goony's Avatar
Really want a Simmons expansion pack for Revolution....
Old 28th January 2018
  #330
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wave alchemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goony View Post
Really want a Simmons expansion pack for Revolution....
This will happen, we have an SDSV and we will be working on it
Topic:
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