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Roland Cloud
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1081
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
I agree. ACB is incredibly demanding because it has to be..
Well, I still think they didn't optimize their algorithms well enough, especially for x86.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1082
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A quick look at the new Fantom parameter guide tells me the ZEN-Core engine is either the same or similar to the Synth-EX engine found in the AX-EDGE. That engine seems to be a mix of the SuperNATURAL Synth engine with the classic Roland rompler engine with some new stuff on top. Or as VennD68 puts it "[...] best parts of SN-S with the best parts of the XV engine into a unified whole."

It's not ACB, can't get those kinds of voice count and PCM + VA mix with that.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1083
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Tnsl's Avatar
How would the Behringer rd8 would control the 808 cloud plugin? as a midi controller.
the boutique tr-08 has audio over usb, right?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Yeah that's a good one. So far I've had the most fun with the SH2 and ProMars.
It sounds legit and in the right pocket for what I do. I like to work with reduced options and tend to rest on one monosynth at any point in time (hardware up until this point). This is the one for the next couple years. That and the JV-1080 and I've now got every single thing I need ITB, outside recording instruments and vocals.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1085
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
I agree. ACB is incredibly demanding because it has to be. The Jupiter X / Xm appears to be the new Jupiter-80, with the next-generation successor to their SuperNatural synthesis engine. It does sound very nice, but there’s no way it’s doing the same level of component modeling as ACB with that kind of voice count.
You have to be careful with these kinds of assumptions.

I've heard from pretty good sources that he ACB code is not written very efficiently. I somewhat doubt it's the case, but newer code could be more efficient, especially if written without respect to needing Intel x*86 or x64 CPUs and supporting chip sets.

It's hard to tell from Youtube videos, but the new Fantoms seem to sound very good . Let's hope that holds up in real life.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1086
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Yeah that's a good one. So far I've had the most fun with the SH2 and ProMars.
SH-2 is completely legit. It's what lives permanently in my System-1. I may buy another one just to have a permanent ProMars.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1087
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Well, I still think they didn't optimize their algorithms well enough, especially for x86.
I agree with that too. I don't doubt they could improve the efficiency, but the increased voice count in the Jupiter-X is too large to be explained by mere optimization. Either they put 5x the DSP chips in it (impossible…it would cost 5x more than the System-8) or it's using a simpler kind of emulation that doesn't actually model all the individual components.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1088
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
It sounds legit and in the right pocket for what I do. I like to work with reduced options and tend to rest on one monosynth at any point in time (hardware up until this point). This is the one for the next couple years. That and the JV-1080 and I've now got every single thing I need ITB, outside recording instruments and vocals.
Amazing how useful the JV-1080 still is. The sound libraries are just so well made.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1089
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer View Post
You have to be careful with these kinds of assumptions.

I've heard from pretty good sources that he ACB code is not written very efficiently. I somewhat doubt it's the case, but newer code could be more efficient, especially if written without respect to needing Intel x*86 or x64 CPUs and supporting chip sets.

It's hard to tell from Youtube videos, but the new Fantoms seem to sound very good . Let's hope that holds up in real life.
Well, you're right, this is all speculation based on incomplete information. I admit upfront I'm talking out of my ass here.

Leaving the technical assumptions aside, there are a couple clear indicators the A-Core / Zen-Core (they called it A-Core in the video, but it says Zen-Core in the specs) does not use ACB for its analog emulations, and it's not a new, more efficient successor to ACB either:
  1. The brand new JU-06A boutique is still 4 voices. They made a new version of this because these things are extremely popular, and would have gladly increased the voice count to at least 6 if they could have. The DSP required for that level of emulation is still cost prohibitive.
  2. The Roland rep in the SonicState video (David Ahlund) basically stated it's not ACB ("we haven't given up on ACB, but…").

It's entirely possible whatever synthesis techniques they're using in the Jupiter-X will make a convincing-enough emulation for most people. For those who value multitimbrality and higher voice counts, it seems like a good tradeoff.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1090
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer View Post
SH-2 is completely legit. It's what lives permanently in my System-1. I may buy another one just to have a permanent ProMars.
I've been close to buying a System-1 several times just to have the SH-2 and ProMars running on dedicated hardware.

What I really want is boutique versions of both. They both have more controls than the SH-101, but if they drop the pitch and mod ribbons like they did on the new JU-06A, it should be possible to fit everything. How cool would these things look in that form factor?

The System-1m could work too, but I don't really need the System-1 engine, and I'd rather just have the exact controls needed for the SH-2 or ProMars, and honestly, the classic look of those machines is just awesome.
Old 1 week ago
  #1091
The jupiter 8, juno 106, and jx3p to me are kind of meh, the envs are wonky, i think diva did it right. Roland did it wrong. The sh2, promars, sh101, system 100 are amazing. The srx stuff is awesome but so is the anthology stuff as well, alpha juno, jx10, jd990. the tr 909 is ok, 808 ok. The tb303 is like very hit and miss, its not like the real thing at all much like the jup8, the jp8 because of its horrid envs and xmod. The juno doesn't snap right either nothing like the original. JX3p just has a very strange tubby filter with super slow envs and sounds bad.

What makes it worse is that the original presets on the 106 jup 8 and jx are TERRIBLE. but when i try to make my own sounds with these synths they are nothing like the real thing. The good thing is that all the mono synths actually do have good presets because those never really came with any.

The stars of the show easily are the System 1 and 8. Absolutely amazing synths. With great presets too. To me, the system 8 by its self can sound more like a jupiter 8 than the jup 8 plugout or vst. The envs behave in a good way on the system 8 and system 1. I for the life of me cannot understand how they could mess up so bad on the jup 8 106 and jx, yet the system 8 sounds so impressive... Repro 5 sounds way more like the prophet 5 than jup8 cloud sounds like a real jupiter 8. Sad..

I wish i could pay $10 a month for half of it, because i think almost half of it sucks. I just want the anthology, src, system 8 and system 1, i already owned the sh2 sh101 promars and system100.

Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of the cloud, just not all of it.

Also, is it just me, but why are the sh101, sh2, promars, system 100 mono, they should be 4 voice like the system 1, and then i wouldn't care about the jup 8, jx3p and juno106 vsts..

Anyone else feel like this?

DF

Last edited by Disease Factory; 1 week ago at 01:29 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #1092
TNC
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TNC's Avatar
 

Does anyone know if the Boutique 101 and Cloud 101 have been updated to the same software apart from the polyphony? They are both ACB, why would they keep using the old code if they improved it with the SH-01A?
Old 1 week ago
  #1093
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lawrence_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
The jupiter 8, juno 106, and jx3p to me are kind of meh, the envs are wonky, i think diva did it right. Roland did it wrong. The sh2, promars, sh101, system 100 are amazing. The srx stuff is awesome but so is the anthology stuff as well, alpha juno, jx10, jd990. the tr 909 is ok, 808 ok. The tb303 is like very hit and miss, its not like the real thing at all much like the jup8, the jp8 because of its horrid envs and xmod. The juno doesn't snap right either nothing like the original. JX3p just has a very strange tubby filter with super slow envs and sounds bad.

What makes it worse is that the original presets on the 106 jup 8 and jx are TERRIBLE. but when i try to make my own sounds with these synths they are nothing like the real thing. The good thing is that all the mono synths actually do have good presets because those never really came with any.

The stars of the show easily are the System 1 and 8. Absolutely amazing synths. With great presets too. To me, the system 8 by its self can sound more like a jupiter 8 than the jup 8 plugout or vst. The envs behave in a good way on the system 8 and system 1. I for the life of me cannot understand how they could mess up so bad on the jup 8 106 and jx, yet the system 8 sounds so impressive... Repro 5 sounds way more like the prophet 5 than jup8 cloud sounds like a real jupiter 8. Sad..

I wish i could pay $10 a month for half of it, because i think almost half of it sucks. I just want the anthology, src, system 8 and system 1, i already owned the sh2 sh101 promars and system100.

Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of the cloud, just not all of it.

Also, is it just me, but why are the sh101, sh2, promars, system 100 mono, they should be 4 voice like the system 1, and then i wouldn't care about the jup 8, jx3p and juno106 vsts..

Anyone else feel like this?

DF
I have a real JX3P and the RolandCloud: high shelve -3db from let's say, 4k or so on the plug and add a subbass plugin and no soul can tell you which is which. The emulation is VERY good. The Juno and Jup8 plug ins are also very good to me although I don't have a hardware Jup8, but youtube is full of demo's you can use to compare it with. It's always the same story: the plug ins sound quite brighter and miss the bottom-end. So reduce the highs with a shelve and add low harmonics with a subbass plug-in like pro tools SubPro for example. If you do that, it's the same. I find that sometimes these analogue beasts are too powerful in the lows and you need to tame them a little anyway so most plugs are just fine.. Some need more bass, easy to solve.

All due respect but you're totally nuts if you waste 10.000 or more for a hardware Jup8: the software is sooo close that with some tweaking you can make it sound exactly the same. But even if you disagree - which would be fine - no one gives a turd about these minor differences. It's the track, not the synth.
Old 1 week ago
  #1094
TNC
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TNC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
The jupiter 8, juno 106, and jx3p to me are kind of meh, the envs are wonky, i think diva did it right. Roland did it wrong. The sh2, promars, sh101, system 100 are amazing. The srx stuff is awesome but so is the anthology stuff as well, alpha juno, jx10, jd990. the tr 909 is ok, 808 ok. The tb303 is like very hit and miss, its not like the real thing at all much like the jup8, the jp8 because of its horrid envs and xmod. The juno doesn't snap right either nothing like the original. JX3p just has a very strange tubby filter with super slow envs and sounds bad.

What makes it worse is that the original presets on the 106 jup 8 and jx are TERRIBLE. but when i try to make my own sounds with these synths they are nothing like the real thing. The good thing is that all the mono synths actually do have good presets because those never really came with any.

The stars of the show easily are the System 1 and 8. Absolutely amazing synths. With great presets too. To me, the system 8 by its self can sound more like a jupiter 8 than the jup 8 plugout or vst. The envs behave in a good way on the system 8 and system 1. I for the life of me cannot understand how they could mess up so bad on the jup 8 106 and jx, yet the system 8 sounds so impressive... Repro 5 sounds way more like the prophet 5 than jup8 cloud sounds like a real jupiter 8. Sad..

I wish i could pay $10 a month for half of it, because i think almost half of it sucks. I just want the anthology, src, system 8 and system 1, i already owned the sh2 sh101 promars and system100.

Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of the cloud, just not all of it.

Also, is it just me, but why are the sh101, sh2, promars, system 100 mono, they should be 4 voice like the system 1, and then i wouldn't care about the jup 8, jx3p and juno106 vsts..

Anyone else feel like this?

DF
Btw, here is a comparison video of the Juno by the same guy you posted a video of comparing the Repro and the Pro-1.

Old 1 week ago
  #1095
Gear Maniac
 
Synthient Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Also, is it just me, but why are the sh101, sh2, promars, system 100 mono, they should be 4 voice like the system 1, and then i wouldn't care about the jup 8, jx3p and juno106 vsts..

Anyone else feel like this?

DF
I'd go a little further. There is no reason that they shouldn't be 8 voice as there is no technical reason to limit them. They use the same ACB tech that the JX-3P, Jupiter, 106, etc use.

I know I am being a broken record, but it would really be great to have these as full 8 voice poly synths. My favorite would be a full poly ProMars.
Old 1 week ago
  #1096
The 106 and JX3p are excellent...only reason I hung onto my S8 for so long
Old 1 week ago
  #1097
I just wished the polysynths use less CPU. It is too cumbersome. I really like the sounds I get from em, but when it uses 1/2 of mac pro worth 4600euro for a 6voice juno106 emu, it defies its purpose imo. I only use the monovariants and the SRX plugs and the tr808/909 nowadays.

What I really want is a Cloud TR8S, I hate dialing in all those marvelous sounds on the hardware, coz it is isnt directly under my hands.
Old 1 week ago
  #1098
I am not saying that the 106 jup 8 and jx are that far off, they are just off enough, i cannot make the sounds that i used to because i push synths to their extreme and that is where you will hear the differences. Still the envs are not the same.

DF
Old 1 week ago
  #1099
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Roland Cloud should give dem folks the JP-4 and the SH-5 /7 and a bloody V-Synth finally
Old 1 week ago
  #1100
http://www.velvetacidchrist.com/hexjp8acidsaw.mp3

http://www.velvetacidchrist.com/hexjp8meanacid.mp3

http://www.velvetacidchrist.com/hexjp8resopads.mp3

I cannot make the cloud jupiter 8 sound like this, the envs do not snap fast enough, the resonance is not hi fi sounding enough. This is where the roland emulations fall to pieces. These are the kind of sounds i make. And the juno can do them to, but not the cloud juno, it doesn't even come close. And on the reso pads i made, i never hear the filter sound like this with the sing song harmonics in the resonance.. Man do i miss my jupiter 8 :( the ob6 doesn't even sound like it.

Someone please take a shot at making the jupiter cloud sound like these clips, i could not manage it, and i am a very experienced analog sound programmer

DF

Last edited by Disease Factory; 1 week ago at 03:30 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #1101
The strange thing is with the system 8 default engine, i can get closer to the real jupiter 8 than i can with the actual jupiter 8 cloud vst. That is kinda sad. And honestly, the system 8 DESTROYS the 106 jup9 and jx3p vsts. It every way.

The system 8 and the bx oberhousen are the only synths i can get to sound even close.

DF
Old 1 week ago
  #1102
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Anyone else feel like this?
No.

Diva is fantastic and very versatile (I love it and use it all the time) but it's not designed to emulate any specific synth. If I want something that sounds as close as possible to a real Jupiter-8, Juno-106, or JX-3P, Roland's plugins/plugouts are the best you can get (that I know of, anyway).

The System-8 engine is also excellent. It can sound more like a Jupiter-8 or Juno-106 than Diva — the basic oscillators are identical to the Jupiter-8 plugout, and the Jupiter-8 and Juno-106 filters are available as filter variations — but the purpose-built plugouts are still more accurate (after all that's why they exist).
Old 1 week ago
  #1103
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
http://www.velvetacidchrist.com/hexjp8acidsaw.mp3

http://www.velvetacidchrist.com/hexjp8meanacid.mp3

http://www.velvetacidchrist.com/hexjp8resopads.mp3

I cannot make the cloud jupiter 8 sound like this, the envs do not snap fast enough, the resonance is not hi fi sounding enough. This is where the roland emulations fall to pieces. These are the kind of sounds i make. And the juno can do them to, but not the cloud juno, it doesn't even come close. And on the reso pads i made, i never hear the filter sound like this with the sing song harmonics in the resonance.. Man do i miss my jupiter 8 :( the ob6 doesn't even sound like it.

Someone please take a shot at making the jupiter cloud sound like these clips, i could not manage it, and i am a very experienced analog sound programmer
Alright, that looks like a fun challenge. I'll take a crack at it when I have some spare time.
Old 1 week ago
  #1104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Alright, that looks like a fun challenge. I'll take a crack at it when I have some spare time.
I promise you, you will fail, the synth is flawed.. Sure it can make some tame jupiter sounds. But not like the ones above..

I can get sort of close with diva. But not with the cloud jup 8. Still diva also fails at sounding mean, its likes its too clean...
But man diva sounds so much better than the 106 jup8 and jx cloud. I think super 8 is almost as good as diva in a different way it sounds way more aggressive and lush.

DF

Last edited by Disease Factory; 1 week ago at 09:46 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #1105
And is it me, or out of all the cloud VA vsts I think the system 100 sounds the most authentic and right, the sync sounds remind me of my jupiter 8 the most.

Anyone? I find it more sonically pleasing than the sh2 vst..

DF
Old 1 week ago
  #1106
TNC
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TNC's Avatar
 

The Cloud site still lists the polys running at 44.1 and 48 khz, does anyone know if they are updated to 96 khz?
Old 1 week ago
  #1107
Ok, Diva can get me into some jupiter 8 territory, and the repro 1 gets me into osc fm, osc sync jupiter territory... WOW u-he is amazing. Roland should hire U-he to make their VSTs.

DF
Old 1 week ago
  #1108
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Roland should hire U-he to make their VSTs.
Yeah that ain't happening ever
Old 1 week ago
  #1109
Too bad. these companies need to learn from U-he on how to do this.

DF
Old 1 week ago
  #1110
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EvilDragon's Avatar
That IS true, though. UX of Roland synths just leaves things to be desired (i.e. preset list opening in a modal dialog in which you load presets by double-clicking, just way uncomfortable, etc.)
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