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ABL 3 Versus TB 303 Versus TT bass bot
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
I'm surprised how few comments from this comparison video???

We have endless discussion on the microscopic differences and this video seems to illustrate them perfectly.

I'm also shocked at how tonally different the TT is to the TB-303 and TB-03... and believe me, I would have preferred the opposite (owning a TT and having sold a TB)

Is there anything about this video I'm not considering that isn't telling the whole story or is this pure tone to tone comparison?

-Andrews
the programmed pattern in this video is pretty "tb03 and tb3 friendly" in respect to the accent behaviour

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12205355-post888.html
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #152
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yeah for starters he omits placing consecutive accents which illustrate that much talked about issue with the TB3/03. then settings seem to be matched visually and not by ear (especially for TB3 where then env is clearly wrong) so basically not the most accurate comparison test imo..
Old 23rd October 2016
  #153
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🎧 10 years
No don't think so? Using the settings on the card do use the whole knob travel from min to max
I did by accident turn my EG somewhere in the last square example
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #154
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^ wait, my above comment is referring to the ADSR video comp..

however about my previous comment of your avalon example: starting at 0:34 on the firs pattern 1 clip, there is this weird noise type of leak that sounds like it may be caused by some extra EG settings (i seem to recollect talk about this when the avalon was released)
Old 23rd October 2016
  #155
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Not sure what you mean, might be so though, but to me it sounds fine.
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #156
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Good points on both accounts.

But, despite that, just the pure tone seems pretty close (if not almost dead-on) in the TB-03 example and definitely a bit off on the TT (wasn't paying much attention to the last one).

Sorry, I'll ask another version of the same question again... anything in pure tone that would have that demo trying to put things in the TB-03 corner that I'm not considering? Seems like a big difference with the TT and pretty close on the TB.

-a
Old 23rd October 2016
  #157
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yeah the waveforms on the TT are a little off (especially square if i recall). it's kind of known and i think the rev.2 TT improved on that. however accent and high res sounds much better then on the digital TBs..
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #158
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if we are just talking about tone at low resonance settings it's definitely there and sounds good imo.
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
Not sure what you mean, might be so though, but to me it sounds fine.
really? it's quite glaring to me on my monitor system.. this video here from Brian explains some of the weird issues avalon users might run into because of the extended VCA/EG range it offers:

Old 23rd October 2016
  #160
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Was the TT-303 example done on Rev1 or Rev2 machine? I have a Rev 2 TT. Could post the pattern 2 with that?
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
really? it's quite glaring to me on my monitor system.. this video here from Brian explains some of the weird issues avalon users might run into because of the extended VCA/EG range it offers:

fine as in "i like the sound" not fine as this is mimics the exact reach of a 303.
Old 23rd October 2016
  #162
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right except i thought the point of this test was to see what clone can get closest, which is why i'd expect the avalon demo to stay in 303 range.. but hey whatever thanks for participating..
Old 23rd October 2016
  #163
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yeah the manual is not clear (or I missed it) if you need to limit reach of cutoff and res and mod and decay to 10 tot 10, till 10 past 10, or you can turn fully (counter)clockwise
full reach is much more interesting.

for me the outcome of these files should really be which ones sound "best" (as in most to your liking) i can't be asked to do the test again limiting reach to ten to and ten past if that should have been the case.
I use the Avalon as a 303 with benefits
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
yeah the manual is not clear (or I missed it) if you need to limit reach of cutoff and res and mod and decay to 10 tot 10, till 10 past 10, or you can turn fully (counter)clockwise
full reach is much more interesting.
yeah what i was referring to and in that vid had more to do with the VCA knob and "Utility EG" section which of course aren't even present on a stock 303. no idea if that's what's causing the saturation & noise i'm hearing on your file, was just curious really.. these additions are for sure interesting and avalon sounds great but i'll admit my main interest is knowing first and foremost how accurately it can mimic a 303..
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #165
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audslu View Post
An acid8 clip would be nice.
I have one but I'm not sure it's worth doing, it sounds nothing like a 303. It also goes really glitchy when you turn the decay right down.
Old 23rd October 2016 | Show parent
  #166
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
for me the outcome of these files should really be which ones sound "best" (as in most to your liking)
since we're talking about clones, it seems most important to me if said clone can actually clone the sound of the device it's supposed to clone.
This is what the files in this thread should be about imo.
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #167
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Originally Posted by theoneafter909 View Post
I have one but I'm not sure it's worth doing, it sounds nothing like a 303. It also goes really glitchy when you turn the decay right down.
I think its ok doing its own thing actually is better for me, acidlab is way off as well.

I can hear what halo says the tt tone is rather off i havent seen the video quoted yet but i ve noticed that before , i like xoxbox for tone much more. Then the accent + high reso.... for both the old 303 or dont sweat about it, in my non expert opinion. Although im confused with abl3 in one clip the accent makes volume jump in the other not, antto's clip is the one that sounds proper i think, i must check again to be sure.

I think 303 accent behaves like a vintage tremolo which is like cutoff movement with bass staying loud, most clips here have volume jump bass comes and goes... not the same, smooth reso up to a certain amount after that only the original sings, again imvho. Just what my ears tell me.
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #168
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🎧 5 years
Anyone have a MAM MB33 Retro they can throw into the mix? (the pattern 2 test)
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bioroid View Post
Anyone have a MAM MB33 Retro they can throw into the mix? (the pattern 2 test)
Already did one ;-)

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12186205-post85.html
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #170
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
yeah what i was referring to and in that vid had more to do with the VCA knob and "Utility EG" section which of course aren't even present on a stock 303. no idea if that's what's causing the saturation & noise i'm hearing on your file, was just curious really.. these additions are for sure interesting and avalon sounds great but i'll admit my main interest is knowing first and foremost how accurately it can mimic a 303..
I've looked it up in the manual: The original TB-303 does not allow the filter envelope modulation to be turned all the way off. The Avalon has an internal switch setting that allows the filter envelope depth to maintain the TB-303 behavior. See Appendix A for details.

I did not flip the internal switch, so had extended reach, that's what you're hearing
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #171
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Originally Posted by bioroid View Post
What's the best way we can bring this to Roland's attention to get fixed? If they just allow you to enter up/down like the original, its actually a fast way or working since we now have the value knob to scroll through the steps. They really need to decouple the transpose from the keyboard. If you enter a C and then transpose Up, the C(2) lights up on the keyboard and the up button turns off. It just makes it more confusing. It's like you are paging through a virtual keyboard when it doesn't really need to.

I did try the new step mode, but it actually felt slower to work with but maybe I haven't spent enough time with it.
Good luck bringing it to their attention.. this is the same flawed step sequencing as on TB-3 !!!

Roland didn't update the code..
Old 24th October 2016 | Show parent
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
Good luck bringing it to their attention.. this is the same flawed step sequencing as on TB-3 !!!

Roland didn't update the code..
So the TB03 IS the TB3 without rom presets in a different box?
Makes sense, they only added "0" which is basically "nothing"

(Yes seperate distortion and reverb, I know....)
Old 24th October 2016
  #173
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They did make changes to the sound engine. They do not sound the same. I prefer the new one over the old one at low resonance setting. Also at high resonance setting they sound different. IMO, as far as I can tell from demos, the new one sounds worse (both don't nail the 303 resonance, though)
Old 29th November 2016
  #174
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🎧 5 years
By the way guys I posted a (live) ABL3 vs TB-303 comparison on our facebook. The audio ended up noisy (for some reason I accidentally plugged into the headphones jack instead of line-out on the 303). Both devices (ABL3 the 303) are going into a Komplete Audio 6 interface running at 96kHz.

The video is here: https://www.facebook.com/AudioRealis...7479253321694/

Mike / AudioRealism
Old 29th November 2016 | Show parent
  #175
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really nice job with the abl3
Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decoder23 View Post
really nice job with the abl3
hell, even i was a little surprised with that video. even knowing already how close ABL3 is, it's still pretty amazing to see comparisons like this. ...which further proves the point of my earlier comment about your "OG". (away from home the past few days, been meaning to reply to you on that.)

i'd still be using the originals myself if i thought there were any real advantage in doing so.
Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #177
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Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
hell, even i was a little surprised with that video. even knowing already how close ABL3 is, it's still pretty amazing to see comparisons like this. ...which further proves the point of my earlier comment about your "OG". (away from home the past few days, been meaning to reply to you on that.)

i'd still be using the originals myself if i thought there were any real advantage in doing so.
if you check my posts, I always said that the abl3 sounds damn close and I also always said that it doesn't matter if someone uses clone x/y to make acid, it's personal preference. I for my part, even if a clone/emulation sounds 100% the same, would still use the tb303, that's my preference because I enjoy tweaking it. And it's not, that I didn't try nearly every available clone in the past.
But if people claim that the tb03 (or any other clone) sounds the same and the difference is clearly noticeable, I should be allowed to write that they don't sound the same to me?
It's just funny that everybody is allowed to celebrate their clones but as soon as someone with a TB303 comments something which they don't like he is the bad boy with the original, the snob and collector, the stupid guy who paid that much for something that can be bought for peanuts which delivers the same results.
Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #178
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by decoder23 View Post
... It's just funny that everybody is allowed to celebrate their clones but as soon as someone with a TB303 comments something which they don't like he is the bad boy with the original, the snob and collector, the stupid guy who paid that much for something that can be bought for peanuts which delivers the same results.
i see what you're saying, there's really nothing like using/owning the original when it comes down to it. similar to a vintage guitar, there's just some history there that you don't get with buying something new. i went a bit nuts a few years ago buying a number of 60s guitars. in the end i sold them all and am perfectly happy (even more so actually, which was a surprise) with a 2012 model that was made in Mexico. even still, i understand what it's like to not be content with anything but the real thing.

part of me wants to agree with you, thinking that there's this "something" that really sets the original apart from any clone. in a lot of cases i'd agree that there is a pretty significant difference in the sound of 303 clones (thankfully i use ABL2/3). when it comes to the final product though (finished tracks), most of the time i just don't think there's much difference. my point with the comment on your tracks in the other thread was that i don't think they're any better just because you're using a real 303. i was thinking "big deal, that might as well be a clone for all we know". if you feel better about it because you are that's one thing, but in the right hands even the TB-03 (with all its faults) can work perfectly well. certainly well enough that i don't think you need to make people feel bad for buying one or for not owning an original 303. i just think you went a bit overboard with your opinions (and seemingly so "proud" of yourself) in one or two of the recent 303 threads.

Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #179
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Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i see what you're saying, there's really nothing like using/owning the original when it comes down to it. similar to a vintage guitar, there's just some history there that you don't get with buying something new. i went a bit nuts a few years ago buying a number of 60s guitars. in the end i sold them all and am perfectly happy (even more so actually, which was a surprise) with a 2012 model that was made in Mexico. even still, i understand what it's like to not be content with anything but the real thing.

part of me wants to agree with you, thinking that there's this "something" that really sets the original apart from any clone. in a lot of cases i'd agree that there is a pretty significant difference in the sound of 303 clones (thankfully i use ABL2/3). when it comes to the final product though (finished tracks), most of the time i just don't think there's much difference. my point with the comment on your tracks in the other thread was that i don't think they're any better just because you're using a real 303. i was thinking "big deal, that might as well be a clone for all we know". if you feel better about it because you are that's one thing, but in the right hands even the TB-03 (with all its faults) can work perfectly well. certainly well enough that i don't think you need to make people feel bad for buying one or for not owning an original 303. i just think you went a bit overboard with your opinions (and seemingly so "proud" of yourself) in one or two of the recent 303 threads.

yeah, I am the guy with the original and if I post something negative about a clone I intend to make feel people bad about it if someone likes an instrument he won't give a **** about a negative comment about it, like I couldn't care less if someone would tell me that my ms20 kit doesn't sound like the original, I literally wouldn't give a f.uck. Same for the nava909. The problem is, that people get offended personally if someone points out some negative points about a synth and that specially applies to the 303 clones.

As I said already, I say it again: I always wrote that it doesn't matter which clone you use to make acid, it's personal preference and if you are happy with the results, everything is fine. I also said in some posts that there are people out there which make better acid than I will ever make with any clone available. So what's your point?
You commented on one single track of mine, where the 303 was just playing a minor part, to tell me that it can be done with any clone? yeah this acidline was nothing special, just some slides and no extreme settings.
But here is the thread with extreme settings, with demos and if you still think that the tb03 can sound like the 303 in some settings, that's really your thing.
And I tell you, that you WON'T be able to make an acidline sounding like the acidline sounds in the track I posted after your comment. The accent behavior WON'T allow it, it will sound "wrong" if you are after THIS sound. And there are people out there, who want exactly this sound.
Old 30th November 2016
  #180
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man, i think you're the one who's personally offended. i just think you're a bit delusional. get a grip. you're the one making all the witty little remarks about the clones in the other threads.

i'm sure glad my happiness doesn't depend on owning some over-priced status symbol just to get THIS sound. i'd be pretty upset if i had to pay current prices to buy another SH-101 or Juno just to get THAT sound. f'ck that, plenty of great synths out there. also, i don't think any of your tracks show any significant example of why you're so much off better for owning the original (and paying way too much for it). especially that high BPM crap you like to do, ffs. i will say do like your tracks in general though, and your enthusiasm for the style.
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