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Roland System 8
Old 5 days ago
  #8611
Lives for gear
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
I guess I was mostly referring to the aspect of Zencore that attempts to emulate the same synths as ACB; like on the Jupiter XM (Juno, SH-101, etc.). It'd be nice if Zencore had options for oscillators like the FM and Supersquare ones the S8 has too; I love using them.
ABM (the X/Xm version of ACB) was developed for higher polyphony to fit with the overall concept of ZenCore (extensive layering). I think it's pretty successful in that sense. While they obviously had to cut back on the details and can't emulate all the components like ACB does, it still sounds pretty good. For many people the tradeoff will be worth it.

I'll be sticking with ACB though.
Old 5 days ago
  #8612
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
ABM (the X/Xm version of ACB) was developed for higher polyphony to fit with the overall concept of ZenCore (extensive layering). I think it's pretty successful in that sense. While they obviously had to cut back on the details and can't emulate all the components like ACB does, it still sounds pretty good. For many people the tradeoff will be worth it.

I'll be sticking with ACB though.
Yup, my conclusion as well.

ZenCore is good for someone who likes to play with layers and synthesize that way; but I just find the subtleties of ACB more musically rewarding.

At this point in my life I'm more into melody than harmony, though. Different courses for different horses.
Old 5 days ago
  #8613
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
To me, the sound of Zencore across the board sounds very dull and muted next to the S8. I thought simply opening up the cutoff would fix this but definitely no. The S8 has a clarity and presence that stands out significantly next to Zencore imo. I notice this every time I hop back on the S8 from Zen. While I'm no expert, I've had MC707 and S8 both from launch. The S8 refuses to be sidelined despite newer synths coming and going since I got it.

The S8 engine itself sounds even better. Very big and very modern and crisp. If you are missing some of the layering aspect from the Jupiter-X, you at least have performance mode where you can layer 2 x 3 oscs including FM stuff for nice attack transients. Much lower voice count of course.

The S8's main plus point is hands on control, but it is also unrivaled in the sound quality department in terms of modern Roland synths imo.
I'm with you. Not very impressed with Zencore. I had the 707 and while I didnt expect it to sound as good as stand alone synth, it just didnt really do it for me.

The System 8 and its plug outs to me are fantastic.
Old 5 days ago
  #8614
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Not very impressed with Zencore. I had the 707 and while I didn't expect it to sound as good as stand alone synth, it just didn't really do it for me.
thankfully i'm pretty much only looking at the 707 for it's sampler aspects and don't even plan on using it for much beyond that (who knows though, we'll see). if not i think i'd be pretty bummed that it wasn't a "System-8 (plus sampler) in a box". i can definitely see why they went the route they did though, and i think most people would prefer it to be how it is.
Old 5 days ago
  #8615
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
I'm with you. Not very impressed with Zencore. I had the 707 and while I didnt expect it to sound as good as stand alone synth, it just didnt really do it for me.

The System 8 and its plug outs to me are fantastic.
But isn’t the MC-707 without the ABM models? I thought it was only the cpu friendly stuff, not with the Juno, Sh101, etc models. No wonder it sounds less good if comparing to the System-8.

Not sure if the ABM tech is coming to the 707 though, it seems you might be able to buy some lifetime key to add those, but not sure??
Old 5 days ago
  #8616
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
But isn’t the MC-707 without the ABM models? I thought it was only the cpu friendly stuff, not with the Juno, Sh101, etc models. No wonder it sounds less good if comparing to the System-8.

Not sure if the ABM tech is coming to the 707 though, it seems you might be able to buy some lifetime key to add those, but not sure??
It has the Juno and 101 but it's not the same ABM modeling. It's zencore.
Old 5 days ago
  #8617
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
It has the Juno and 101 but it's not the same ABM modeling. It's zencore.
Yeah, but I think they will add “Model expansions” to Zenology Pro later, and possibly also to the MC-707?

The “Models”/ABM are more like emulations than the generic VA that’s now in the current Zenology/MC-707 etc.

The Jupiter-X already has these models and they seem to sound very nice, although less accurate than the ACB models.
Old 5 days ago
  #8618
Here for the gear
 
230v's Avatar
So on the last page I mentioned a problem with Oscillator 3 modulating the color knob on osc 1 and 2. Basically every 4 notes there would be a detuned note that sounds pretty awful due to the system-8 still using the ratio to the 3rd note on the new 4th note. If you play octaves it sounds fine but anything else is pretty bad.

Today Gattobus came into the Facebook group and said that the System-8 was programmed to behave this way so that it emulates the way analogue synths work. In my experience that isn’t the case based on analogue synths I've used, yes FM gets wacky and easily becomes inharmonic, but usually in a way that is fairly consistent. So I made a new video showing the problem in detail, what's going on, comparing it to FM on an analogue synth and the System-8 itself and how to mitigate the problem it somewhat.

Here is the link to the video, I hope it can help a bit with anyone who has this problem and I hope Roland can/want to fix it with a firmware update.

Last edited by 230v; 4 days ago at 01:45 AM.. Reason: Gattobus clarified that his comment on Facebook was not a statement given to him by Roland. Also fixed a spelling error.
Old 4 days ago
  #8619
I just tested this out and it does the same thing. Weird.
Old 4 days ago
  #8620
Lives for gear
 
PeteJames's Avatar
I am quite a sceptic when it comes to digital recreations of analog synths but lately i've incredibly surprised by some of the things i've heard from the system 8. I know Jupiter 8s are very rare so it's hard to get a long detailed comparison of the two synths. Has anyone found any more like this video? My mind was quite blown by it and also when I heard MR Tuna comparing the Jupiter X vs System 8 my ears always preferred the more raw exciting tone of the system 8. Of course I could but real analog like by Behringer, DSI, Korg and Moog but perhaps this sounds better than most real modern analog synths. More analog than modern analog haha! Buying the Plugout Jupiter and this controller also interests me - https://www.musictech.net/news/gear/soundforce-sfc8/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9GTOxcqu5c

If I was just buying it to be a Jupiter 8 clone would I be better off with the 1m module or system-1 or is that not possible? Do they offer the same size controls and the same amount of knob per function control?

Last edited by PeteJames; 4 days ago at 05:44 PM..
Old 3 days ago
  #8621
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteJames View Post
I am quite a sceptic when it comes to digital recreations of analog synths but lately i've incredibly surprised by some of the things i've heard from the system 8. I know Jupiter 8s are very rare so it's hard to get a long detailed comparison of the two synths. Has anyone found any more like this video? My mind was quite blown by it and also when I heard MR Tuna comparing the Jupiter X vs System 8 my ears always preferred the more raw exciting tone of the system 8. Of course I could but real analog like by Behringer, DSI, Korg and Moog but perhaps this sounds better than most real modern analog synths. More analog than modern analog haha! Buying the Plugout Jupiter and this controller also interests me - https://www.musictech.net/news/gear/soundforce-sfc8/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9GTOxcqu5c

If I was just buying it to be a Jupiter 8 clone would I be better off with the 1m module or system-1 or is that not possible? Do they offer the same size controls and the same amount of knob per function control?
I had an S8 and it does indeed sound great. I've since sold and moved on to Roland Cloud and will definitely be picking up the SoundForce controller once it's released. Had their Juno controller for TAL and it's great stuff.
Old 3 days ago
  #8622
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteJames View Post
I am quite a sceptic when it comes to digital recreations of analog synths but lately i've incredibly surprised by some of the things i've heard from the system 8. I know Jupiter 8s are very rare so it's hard to get a long detailed comparison of the two synths. Has anyone found any more like this video? My mind was quite blown by it and also when I heard MR Tuna comparing the Jupiter X vs System 8 my ears always preferred the more raw exciting tone of the system 8. Of course I could but real analog like by Behringer, DSI, Korg and Moog but perhaps this sounds better than most real modern analog synths. More analog than modern analog haha! Buying the Plugout Jupiter and this controller also interests me - https://www.musictech.net/news/gear/soundforce-sfc8/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9GTOxcqu5c

If I was just buying it to be a Jupiter 8 clone would I be better off with the 1m module or system-1 or is that not possible? Do they offer the same size controls and the same amount of knob per function control?
GS member gregkonyc has had a Jupiter-8 since almost they were available and at one point also had the System-8 (not sure if he still does or not) and pretty sure he said they were damned close when comparing against his own JP-8. its in this thread somewhere way back.
Old 3 days ago
  #8623
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteJames View Post
If I was just buying it to be a Jupiter 8 clone would I be better off with the 1m module or system-1 or is that not possible?
the System-1(m) can't load the more recent polyphonic plugouts (JP-8, 106, 3P), just the older monosynths. you'd have to buy the full System-8 for a "Jupiter-8 clone".
Old 2 days ago
  #8624
Gear Nut
 

I bought the 101 plug out ages ago, I got the JX3P in that slot now, I can't remember for the life of me... how would I go about putting the 101 back on it?
Old 2 days ago
  #8625
Lives for gear
 
Bach666's Avatar
 

I think the System-8 is turning out to be my favorite Roland piece of all-time. I love the System-8 synth engine most; I especially enjoy filtering Supersaws with the Juno filter. I also really like the FX; I'm usually a big fan of Boss/Roland algorithms. I'm surprised so many people think the FX on this are only ok. I actually really like the Reverb on this thing.
Old 2 days ago
  #8626
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
I bought the 101 plug out ages ago, I got the JX3P in that slot now, I can't remember for the life of me... how would I go about putting the 101 back on it?
load the 101 VST and you can then "plug out" to the hardware via USB.
Old 2 days ago
  #8627
Lives for gear
 
Bach666's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
load the 101 VST and you can then "plug out" to the hardware via USB.
Also, make sure to go into the options menu of the VST, and select the S8 interface first, or it won't work. Took me a bit to figure that out.
Old 2 days ago
  #8628
Gear Maniac
 
EnochLight's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
I think the System-8 is turning out to be my favorite Roland piece of all-time. I love the System-8 synth engine most; I especially enjoy filtering Supersaws with the Juno filter. I also really like the FX; I'm usually a big fan of Boss/Roland algorithms. I'm surprised so many people think the FX on this are only ok. I actually really like the Reverb on this thing.
^^ THIS ^^

Totally agree!
Old 1 day ago
  #8629
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godparticle View Post
I'm starting to hate the jupiter x I bought(really dislike the interface/menu diving) and thinking I should return it for a system 8. Am I crazy?
Probably not. I find the Fantom a little frustrating and that has a large touch screen. Perhaps the JPX shouldn't have included the PCM stuff and just been a hands-on 2 osc VA with all controls visible like a JP8. Something between the System 8 and the JPX would be a great hands-on synth. The System 8 is it really... just a shame it looks the way it does rather than in Jupiter livery.
Old 1 day ago
  #8630
Lives for gear
 
Bach666's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markorbit View Post
Probably not. I find the Fantom a little frustrating and that has a large touch screen. Perhaps the JPX shouldn't have included the PCM stuff and just been a hands-on 2 osc VA with all controls visible like a JP8. Something between the System 8 and the JPX would be a great hands-on synth. The System 8 is it really... just a shame it looks the way it does rather than in Jupiter livery.
I bet you a decade from now, people will look back at all the synths made during these times, and the Roland System 8 will stand out in a good way. The System 8 already looks super cool to me. Green lights on a synth is actually unique.
Old 1 day ago
  #8631
Lives for gear
 

The ZenCore stuff certainly works better in terms of convenience, polyphony and complex integration, but as a standalone instrument, the System-8 remains unsurpassed in the Roland lineup.

It is a step forward; the ZenCore/Fantom/Jupiter X/Xm stuff is primarily repackaging and reselling of past releases, as RolandCloud makes clear.
Old 1 day ago
  #8632
Gear Nut
 

Thanks I got it - what a faff! You need to change your MIDI options just right in your DAW preferences in order for it to play ball.

DAW - SYSTEM-8 set to enabled for input and output
DAW - SYSTEM-8 CTRL set to disabled for input and output
SH101 Soft synth - Setting set to SYSTEM-8 CTRL for input and output

(lifted that from another thread where the user had the same problem on a cakewalk forum, thanks Aulias!)

Looks like the Mathew Jonson soundback is now gone for SH101 content store version plug out? The page where it used to be available for download is 404 (not the Roland sampler )

There are "patches and patterns" available for the Cloud version but I don't think these are the same
Old 1 day ago
  #8633
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markorbit View Post
Probably not. I find the Fantom a little frustrating and that has a large touch screen. Perhaps the JPX shouldn't have included the PCM stuff and just been a hands-on 2 osc VA with all controls visible like a JP8. Something between the System 8 and the JPX would be a great hands-on synth. The System 8 is it really... just a shame it looks the way it does rather than in Jupiter livery.
Yeah, it's trying to be a bit of everything without thoughtful design. What's really strange is that it has stuff buried in the menus while having unused controls on the panel
Old 21 hours ago
  #8634
Lives for gear
 
GregkoNYC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bach666 View Post
I think the System-8 is turning out to be my favorite Roland piece of all-time. I love the System-8 synth engine most; I especially enjoy filtering Supersaws with the Juno filter. I also really like the FX; I'm usually a big fan of Boss/Roland algorithms. I'm surprised so many people think the FX on this are only ok. I actually really like the Reverb on this thing.
My System 8 doesn't get a lot of use lately, but if I *had* to downsize to just one synth, it would have to be the S8. Great interface, and the fact that it has a 96K DAC really helps.

HAGWE!

Greg
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