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Roland System 8
Old 1 week ago
  #8221
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
the System-8 was more than anyone really expected when it was released, and has been expanded well beyond that. even if they never add another thing, it's pretty amazing for what it is. people were saying it was "dead" years ago, and we've seen much progress since then.
This sums it up for me. People are quick to assume a product has been abandoned just because it hasn’t received an update in a few months. Roland updates are often spaced apart by a year or two.

More plugouts would be great, but the value of the System-8 is already established and doesn’t depend on any future updates or addons.
Old 1 week ago
  #8222
Lives for gear
 
Bad Machinery's Avatar
 

It's been something like 4 years since a paid plugout has been released. I, for one, have officially lost faith.
Old 1 week ago
  #8223
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Machinery View Post
It's been something like 4 years since a paid plugout has been released. I, for one, have officially lost faith.
<Moving Goalposts Detected>

The System-8 (the topic of this thread) didn't even exist 4 years ago. The paid plugouts were officially discontinued when they announced Roland Cloud. That doesn't mean they've abandoned the System-8 or stopped making plugouts.

Since the launch of the System-8:
  • December 2016: Juno-106 plugout released (free for System-8 users), along with significant new features added to System-8.
  • April 2017: System-8 bug fixes
  • June 2018: Major new features added to System-8
  • August 2018: JX-3P plugout released (free for System-8 users)

Your impression of Roland's level of commitment is out of touch with reality.
Old 1 week ago
  #8224
Lives for gear
 
Bad Machinery's Avatar
 

The paid plugouts were never "officially discontinued". They are still for sale @ https://contentstore.roland.com/aira/.
Old 1 week ago
  #8225
Lives for gear
 
mutilatedlip's Avatar
The rate of release is a pain and very slow.

However, with the JX3P and the FM additions, let's at least get our facts right for anyone visiting this site and maybe quietly trying to decide whether the S8 is worth it, which I feel it definitely is.

Some bargains to be had.

But what you have is a great sounding Roland synth with that sound, as well as some great additions.
Old 1 week ago
  #8226
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Machinery View Post
The paid plugouts were never "officially discontinued". They are still for sale @ https://contentstore.roland.com/aira/.
Yes, but I read somewhere they are no longer developing them, so any updates for the Roland Cloud versions aren’t being applied to the standalone versions.
Old 1 week ago
  #8227
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
They said that they were considering it
When did someone from Roland post in here that this was the case? "Closer to page 1" doesn't really help. Searched this thread on terms I thought would work and so far the only thing I've seen is people wanting them to, not them saying they were considering it.
Old 1 week ago
  #8228
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
When did someone from Roland post in here that this was the case? "Closer to page 1" doesn't really help. Searched this thread on terms I thought would work and so far the only thing I've seen is people wanting them to, not them saying they were considering it.
i think in one of the very first videos that was posted when it was announced one of the reps was asked if this was possible. he didn't dismiss it outright, and now Eigenwert has been "waiting" for this to be addressed ever since. it was never part of the plan. he's also been claiming that the System-8 has been "abandoned" several times over the past few years.
Old 1 week ago
  #8229
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i think in one of the very first videos that was posted when it was announced one of the reps was asked if this was possible. he didn't dismiss it outright, and now Eigenwert has been "waiting" for this to be addressed ever since. it was never part of the plan. he's also been claiming that the System-8 has been "abandoned" several times over the past few years.
Thanks for clarifying. That makes more sense (possible to do turned into they were considering it).

I can certainly see the technology being capable. I don't see them doing it. I'd expect they'd have licensing issues as well. I expect Korg wouldn't just give Roland the Polysix name to use in a plugout.
Old 1 week ago
  #8230
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
Eigenwert has been "waiting" for this to be addressed ever since.
Ansolutely not. I was responding to someone wondering why someone else was even considering emulations of non Roland gear.

I actually wonder why there are so many posts lately demanding more plugouts. For a Roland product of medium sales success, in my opinion it really has been well supported, even if this should be the „final state“. While a kind of „UAD of synth emulations“ would be cool, I wouldn‘t ask for (or want) this in the current System-8.
Old 1 week ago
  #8231
Lives for gear
 

Do you have reliable data on the scale of sales of the System-8? Otherwise your claim there is just gossip.
Old 1 week ago
  #8232
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Machinery View Post
It's been something like 4 years since a paid plugout has been released. I, for one, have officially lost faith.
That's Roland for you , they mostly stop supporting their instruments after 2 to 3 years
Old 1 week ago
  #8233
Gear Maniac
 
Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
That's Roland for you , they mostly stop supporting their instruments after 2 to 3 years
Why is Roland expected to keep spending time and money developing features for an instrument they sold to someone two or three years ago? At what point is it considered done? When can they move on to developing something else?

At this point all the promises of the System-8 have been entirely fulfilled. They’ve delivered all the plugouts that were promised (Jupiter-8, Juno-106, JX-3P), fixed bugs, and added major new features like FM oscillators and new filter types to the System-8 engine.

Paying once and receiving free improvements and support for years and years is not a sustainable business model.
Old 1 week ago
  #8234
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Do you have reliable data on the scale of sales of the System-8?
Yes
Old 1 week ago
  #8235
Hear, hear.

And at what point did the definition of “supporting their instruments” change to mean “keep adding new features”?
Old 1 week ago
  #8236
I wasn't requesting free plugouts or anything of the sort. I would be more than willing to buy them - especially if they were something I was interested in (polysix, ob-x, etc). The free plugouts with the firmware updates were quite generous & I don't believe anyone can disagree.
Old 1 week ago
  #8237
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
Hear, hear.

And at what point did the definition of “supporting their instruments” change to mean “keep adding new features”?
That was upon the invention of the „plugout“ emulations, as the synth needs to be supported, otherwise they won‘t be able to run on it.
Old 1 week ago
  #8238
Something I think a lot of people here are forgetting is: The Roland Cloud plugouts/VST plugins are developed, released and supported by an entirely different group...Roland Cloud, which is Roland VirtualSonics, LLC. So much so that even Roland US told me I needed to contact Roland Cloud for support regarding the issue with the latest version of the S8 VST plugin breaking compatibility with preset data from the S8 hardware. This tells me that while they are associated to the mother ship, Roland Cloud truly operates as an entirely different subsidiary, if not it's own company under the umbrella of Roland.

The reason I mention this is because Roland Cloud is clearly continuing to invest in growing their brand, which at the moment is squarely focused on the ACB/DCB suite of products. The website just recently got a complete overhaul, and they continue to invest in marketing with artist endorsements.

IMO I believe Roland may be done with the S8 hardware platform, but I believe Roland Cloud (aka Roland Virtualsonics, LLC) still have more up their sleeve since the ACB platform is completely available both in the S8 hardware and the VST format for them to continue to develop and release new instruments. I don't see any reason that would be stopping them from developing new instruments for the ACB platform as new plugouts for the S8 platform. Remember, only the hardware (e.g. S1/S8/Boutiques) are the ones that are developed by Roland itself. My gut says the reality is they are simply a smaller team, and don't have the abundance of development resources available to them from the mother ship. So they have to work at a slower pace.

The most practical next release for them would be to tackle the next in line of Juno/JX synths. Which would be the Juno 6/60, Alpha Juno, and JX-8p. I would def love to see the Jupiter 4 and 6 make it as well, but something tells me those may never see the light of day. I hope Roland Cloud proves me wrong
Old 1 week ago
  #8239
Quote:
Originally Posted by holografique View Post
Something I think a lot of people here are forgetting is: The Roland Cloud plugouts/VST plugins are developed, released and supported by an entirely different group...Roland Cloud, which is Roland VirtualSonics, LLC.
Although much of what you say is true, VirtualSonics did not and does not develop the original synth software implemented in ACB. They inherit and adapt the code for Roland Cloud. The plug-out concept and rollout predates the involvement of VirtualSonics. Roland still very much develops the software for its hardware, and as far as I know still manages the development of the x86 ports. My understanding is that they just now hand it over to RC for distribution, marketing and support. If and when a synth like the Juno 60 shows up on RC’s Legendary series, it’s because Roland engineers in Japan developed it for the new Boutique first.
Old 1 week ago
  #8240
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Bad Machinery's Avatar
 

People are acting like Roland didn't establish an ecosystem of paid "plugouts" (a term that Roland itself dubbed,) going back to the System-1, and that it was not at all unreasonable to believe that the similarly named System-8 was an extension of that ecosystem.

For that all to come to an end (without any official announcement, btw) is a bit shocking, is all. As is this talk about "free" stuff--I purchased 3 or 4 of these plugouts, plus a 707 expansion, on top of the various hardware to run all of them. So when was any of this "free"?
Old 1 week ago
  #8241
Lives for gear
I for one love my system 8. I have the Jupiter 8, Juno 106 and Jxp3 sitting on my plugouts with all the others at my disposal - a great sequencer for creating basic ideas and motion capture and knob per function on most things. As it stands it’s actually a superb instrument. Can’t fault anyone for asking to do better new excellence is often discovered in that way but in a glass is half full way the system 8 is stellar for me at least.
Old 1 week ago
  #8242
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Machinery View Post
People are acting like Roland didn't establish an ecosystem of paid "plugouts" (a term that Roland itself dubbed,) going back to the System-1, and that it was not at all unreasonable to believe that the similarly named System-8 was an extension of that ecosystem.

For that all to come to an end (without any official announcement, btw) is a bit shocking, is all. As is this talk about "free" stuff--I purchased 3 or 4 of these plugouts, plus a 707 expansion, on top of the various hardware to run all of them. So when was any of this "free"?
System 8 was an extension of that ecosystem as those plugouts work in the System 8. Not to mention they were available *cheaper* to System 1/8 owners.

I don't remember if there was an official announcement or not but it was the worst kept secret that they were stopping any further development on the content store plugouts in favor of the cloud versions.

As to free....certainly possible to get a free Cloud trial and get one of the plugouts into a System 8 for free. They dont stop working in the hardware.
Old 1 week ago
  #8243
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login's Avatar
I must be in the minority but I would never drop the System100 for the JXP3, the 100 sounds incredible.
Old 1 week ago
  #8244
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Bad Machinery's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
System 8 was an extension of that ecosystem as those plugouts work in the System 8. Not to mention they were available *cheaper* to System 1/8 owners.
Roland never released another paid plugout after the System 8 was released. Perhaps S8 was an "extension" of the previous ecosystem, but it was also the end.

And it does very much matter that Roland has been silent about this. I just let my Cloud subscription (again, nothing "free" about that, either,) lapse in August, for example, due to the lack of new product and the lack of communication.
Old 1 week ago
  #8245
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Machinery View Post
Roland never released another paid plugout after the System 8 was released. Perhaps S8 was an "extension" of the previous ecosystem, but it was also the end.

And it does very much matter that Roland has been silent about this. I just let my Cloud subscription (again, nothing "free" about that, either,) lapse in August, for example, due to the lack of new product and the lack of communication.
I didn't say the cloud subscription was free. I said you could do a trial and get a plugout free. And if you were grandfathered in to when they promised giving you a plugout at the end of each year you were silly to let the subscription lapse.

System 8 was, and still is, an extension of the plugout system. Neither you nor I have any idea what Roland's plans are moving forward. Could be the end of support completely. Could be they're going to release more updates and free plugouts. Could be they're going to release more plugouts via Cloud. Could be anything.

Any of those options really aren't the point. I suspect you'd be complaining too if they communicated clearly that they were totally ending support of the whole thing because deep down you don't give a damn about the communication, you aren't happy with the pace they're updating things. Oddly enough the plugouts from the content store still work just fine. The System 8 itself works just fine if they don't release another update from this point on.

And odd that you say there is lack of new product in Cloud. They've been pretty consistently releasing things. Just how often do you expect new stuff from Roland Cloud?
Old 1 week ago
  #8246
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login's Avatar
I have to tell my SYstem 8 I can no longer use it because Roland is not intending to give it more updates or plugouts, poor guy is going to be so sad.
Old 1 week ago
  #8247
Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
I must be in the minority but I would never drop the System100 for the JXP3, the 100 sounds incredible.
That makes two of us. And I’ve got an actual System100
Old 1 week ago
  #8248
Lives for gear
 

Well, I just got mine on Wednesday, seems developed enough that people shouldn't be whining so much, but hey - it's gearslutz.

That being said, I've just left it in System 8 manual keyboard mode since I unboxed it, and would still be down for it without the plugout expansions. It's instant gratification and one giant sweet spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
I must be in the minority but I would never drop the System100 for the JXP3, the 100 sounds incredible.
Yeah - that's what I'm thinking. Never gelled with the 3p.
Old 1 week ago
  #8249
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
I have to tell my SYstem 8 I can no longer use it because Roland is not intending to give it more updates or plugouts, poor guy is going to be so sad.
Imagine how I feel - only three days old and already a dinosaur of technology.
Old 1 week ago
  #8250
Lives for gear
 
Bad Machinery's Avatar
 

These threads seem to frequently end up being about the zeal of the recently converted. Nothing wrong with that. It's my own fault for hoping there is some new business with the System-8 when this thread floats to the top.
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