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K3000 from Kurzweil in 2017 How Likely ?
Old 9th August 2016
  #1
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

K3000 from Kurzweil in 2017 How Likely ?

Hi,

Can we expect Kurzweil to release the next generation VAST K3000 in 2017 ?

Or should we expect more of the same stuff they have been releasing lately ?

Your expectations, thoughts, predictions about Kurzweil in 2017 ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp
Old 9th August 2016
  #2
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
About as likely as finding aliens.
Old 9th August 2016
  #3
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Nope.
Old 9th August 2016
  #4
afa
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afa's Avatar
 

Isn't Forte their new VAST platform, though?

Their lineup is rather complicated: I'm still a bit confused about the fact that the forte 7 is more expensive than the forte 8 (at least at thomann).
Old 9th August 2016
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
Hi,

Can we expect Kurzweil to release the next generation VAST K3000 in 2017 ?

Or should we expect more of the same stuff they have been releasing lately ?

Your expectations, thoughts, predictions about Kurzweil in 2017 ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp
Are you telling me you already exhausted all the programming possibilities of the K2600 series?


WOW! RESPECT!!!!!!!!
Old 9th August 2016
  #6
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Muied Lumens's Avatar
I think that Ray Kurzweil is no longer associated with the company... If memory serves, Kurzweil (the company) was bought by Young Chang, a Korean piano manufacturer. The VAST synthesis system has not been developed since then in any significant way, only expanded upon with more layers available, things like that.

I would be surprised if there was a ground breaking new release from Kurzweil - especially a rack unit - Young Chang have only released Kurzweil keyboards so far. A rack would be nice, but possibly too much of a risk considering that there has not been a new rack synth/sampler produced for a decade or so now. Probably a good reason for that.
Old 9th August 2016
  #7
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

K3000?

Haha! You must be joking!

The once innovative Kurzweil has stood still developmentally speaking since being bought out by Young Chang Corp.

The only way Kurzweil V.A.S.T. will get an upgrade is if/when some or all of the original USA R&D team are able to buy back the once illustrious name and set up shop for the new millennium - Sequential Circuits/Dave Smith style.

And when I say 'upgrade' I really mean 'sidegrade' - it's hard to see where they could go with what is already one of the most sophisticated, capable synthesis architectures out there. What they could do of course is simplify things a bit and give it knobs, but I think someone once calculated if every function on the K2x00 had a knob it would take up more real estate than the cockpit of the space shuttle:

Old 9th August 2016
  #8
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acreil's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
The once innovative Kurzweil has stood still developmentally speaking since being bought out by Young Chang Corp.
I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. Young Chang have owned Kurzweil since the early 90s. They've developed plenty of stuff. It's more that their development efforts are sporadic and unfocused and hampered by a desire to maintain compatibility with older models.

Quote:
I think someone once calculated if every function on the K2x00 had a knob it would take up more real estate than the cockpit of the space shuttle:
I think that's the inevitable next step. Everyone wants a knob per function interface, right? Give it 20 more years and maybe it will finally come out. Can't wait for NAMM 2037. I hope we live to see it! Maybe they'll even give it a faster modulation rate and a display that isn't from the 80s.
Old 9th August 2016
  #9
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Forte already has a display that's not from the 80s.
Old 9th August 2016
  #10
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

Well, The K2600 was released in 1999 !

I have been hoping to see a K3000 since then, so it's not like they need more time to design and produce a K3000.

imho. it's more about their overall focus, and it looks like they are heading in the wrong direction, and have not tried to fix their heading all these years. So, unfortunately, I'm not optimistic we will see a K3000 in 2017, or in the year 3000

If Kurzweil was seriously considering making a K3000, they should have at least hinted that by now, but that has not happened, and I doubt it will ever happen.

Kind of sad to see Kurzweil not playing an important/primary role in the current electronic music industry.
Old 9th August 2016
  #11
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Judging by how sales of Forte are actually going pretty well, they have actually headed in good direction to stay in the market in SOME way instead of, you know, going bankrupt. They have a very small team (on scale of DSI, perhaps slightly larger), and that team is covering for much more than just PC3 and Forte range, so they're spread pretty thin. So any huge R&D effort for something "next level" takes much longer than it usually would. But yeah, basically their focus is making lots of digital pianos for Asian market (because YC demands that) and anything else is pretty much a side job.

I think we may actually never see a successor to K2600. Workstation market is just not the same as it used to be, plus, it's a REALLY tall order to one up on just about everything what Kronos offers, say.
Old 9th August 2016
  #12
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duplobaustein's Avatar
Bankrupt...pah...
Old 10th August 2016
  #13
Here for the gear
Can somebody tell me what's so great about VAST? What can it do that other more modern workstations can't?
Old 10th August 2016
  #14
I love my k2661. I Do often wish I had the pc361k but the only way an upgrade would be worth is if it had some knobs, at least some dedicated and others assignable and a more visual interface with larger screen. It's a tremendous machine that I wish were a little more easy to grok.
Old 10th August 2016
  #15
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by P_easy View Post
Can somebody tell me what's so great about VAST? What can it do that other more modern workstations can't?
VAST = Variable Architecture Synthesis Technology

Very flexible synthesis system compared to many of the Synthesis Engines in modern workstations, lots of modulation options in VAST. Kind of a Modular system you can tweak, and re-arrange its components as needed.

I'm sure you can find a lot more info. about VAST by googling it
Old 10th August 2016
  #16
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Still rocking my '94 k2000 I bought brand new.
Old 10th August 2016
  #17
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BTByrd's Avatar
If they do, they should replace that F-ing screen. It's truly terrible. It felt dated in the year 2000. I cannot believe they still use it on the PC3K8. It's the dot matrix printer of synth displays.
Old 10th August 2016
  #18
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Pilotwings's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Are you telling me you already exhausted all the programming possibilities of the K2600 series?


WOW! RESPECT!!!!!!!!
Digital gear NEEDS to be updated periodically to remain competitive! I've owned many Kurzweil products and like many here, I'd love to see a new K3000, although there would need to be major updates/changes at this point.

I know (think) you're half joking with the "exhausted all the programming possibilities of the K2600 series?" comment, but just fact that the K26xx series is only 48 note polyphonic is a huge reason for musicians to want more.

I have an idea for Kurzweil if they don't have plans to update the K26xx series with a new workstation. GO SOFT! Introduce VAST as a standalone/vst similar to Spectrasonics Omnisphere. Price it 299 to 499 and eliminate all hardware manufacturing costs.

It took over 30 years, but even the Minimoog Model D got an update. Maybe there's hope yet for a new K3000! I'm not holding my breath though.
Old 10th August 2016
  #19
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Quantum7's Avatar
I've stayed in touch over the years with a team member of Kurzweil since I was a huge Kurzweil guy beginning in the late 80's until I sold off my last K2600 (I had 3 in my studio) around 2005. He told me that the probability of of K3000 was extremely unlikely due to software severely crippling the hardware synth industry as a whole. Supposedly they gave huge consideration to a software version, but put the kibosh on that idea years ago. Kurzweil has been surviving by a thread due to products like the Forte and stage pianos for many years now. A K3000 would most likely be too risky a venture unfortunately. We can always hope though.
Old 10th August 2016
  #20
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rids's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
K3000?

Haha! You must be joking!

The once innovative Kurzweil has stood still developmentally speaking since being bought out by Young Chang Corp.

The only way Kurzweil V.A.S.T. will get an upgrade is if/when some or all of the original USA R&D team are able to buy back the once illustrious name and set up shop for the new millennium - Sequential Circuits/Dave Smith style.

And when I say 'upgrade' I really mean 'sidegrade' - it's hard to see where they could go with what is already one of the most sophisticated, capable synthesis architectures out there. What they could do of course is simplify things a bit and give it knobs, but I think someone once calculated if every function on the K2x00 had a knob it would take up more real estate than the cockpit of the space shuttle:

The K2600 is so deep, this is how I would envision an upgraded K2600 / K3000 to look like. One of the deepest and coolest engines out there. I don't really think they'd need to ever upgrade the sound or features of a K2600, but just add an easier to edit interface. But I think the best thing is getting a software editor to edit this thing, like MidiQuest 11.
Old 10th August 2016
  #21
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Sorry guys, but the K3000 should be a plug in.

And it should open the entire history of .krz files.

I'd pay a lot for that.
Old 10th August 2016
  #22
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Quantum7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
Sorry guys, but the K3000 should be a plug in.

And it should open the entire history of .krz files.

I'd pay a lot for that.
I'd pay for that also! I still over 15 years of Kurzweil files stored in my safe for that dream one day...if it ever happens.
Old 10th August 2016
  #23
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
Sorry guys, but the K3000 should be a plug in.

And it should open the entire history of .krz files.

I'd pay a lot for that.

That would be great, but will it ever be done by Kurzweil ? .... I doubt it.
Old 10th August 2016
  #24
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duplobaustein's Avatar
The Forte can load any program from the K2500 upwards. I doubt there will be a K3000 soon. Imo the Forte will be the flagship for quite a while now.
Old 10th August 2016
  #25
I still think the PC3 series is more capable than any hardware synth available today, surpassed only by the Forte (more on that below). By that I mean the sheer amount of stuff you can do is greater. Some systems might be easier to use, or have a trick or two that they can do that the PC3 can't do, but overall the PC3 has a real edge, especially when it comes to "new" synthesis methods, and by that I mean kinds of synthesis and signal manipulation that don't have names. That's practically all I do these days, and it's an endless rabbit-hole of fun that goes beyond anything I've experienced in the hardware world (modular or otherwise). The thing has its own language, once you learn the ins and outs of it writing new stories can happen every time you boot up. There are precious few synths on the market that have anywhere near the same depth.

Yeah, and the Forte... Kurzweil developed and patented "FlashPlay", which essentially turns Flash storage into RAM. It really works like that; you have real-time random access to any point in the Flash memory, which is also non-volatile. That's pretty darn amazing from an engineering perspective, and it means there's practically no "loading" time for any sound -- they play straight from Flash without having to load into RAM first.

The most recent major OS update to the Forte added a.) The ability to load about 3.4 GB of user samples into the Flash memory (with all the benefits of FlashPlay), and b.) The ability to apply an effects chain to the 1/8" audio input. These features push the Forte beyond the PC3 in many ways. Kurzweil's effects are essentially another avenue for VAST, so you can do lots and lots and lots of fun things to incoming audio. It's almost not fair to refer to them as "effects", as there's plenty of synthesis that can be done with the effects alone. And, of course, with the large user sample memory you can use the Forte to really screw with whatever audio you care to load up, taking advantage of both VAST and the effects. Not to be missed is KB3 mode. Yeah, it can be used for organs, but on the Forte it uses 0 polyphony from the main VAST engine _and_ it can play back Keymaps (Kurzweil's term for a multisample set). Those two things together mean mega-fun for loops, specifically lots of loops that can be playing while you still have 128 voices of polyphony available for something else. For instance, maybe that "something else" is you plug in 3 or 4 keyboard controllers (with the proper MIDI cabling) and have them each playing their own "synthesizer" on different MIDI channels with their own effects, controller assignments, synthesis methods, and so on. Oh, and maybe some sort of controller dedicated to real-time manipulation of the effects on the audio input. At that point you really do have a space shuttle...
Old 10th August 2016
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotwings View Post
I know (think) you're half joking with the "exhausted all the programming possibilities of the K2600 series?" comment, but just fact that the K26xx series is only 48 note polyphonic is a huge reason for musicians to want more.
Yeah, but that's true 48 voices.

Roland XV-5080 on paper has 128 voices, but in reality that is something completely different. If you use a stereo tone, that's 64 poly to begin with. And if you use all 4 tones per patch, that's actual polyphony of 16 voices. Yet with those 16 voices it still sounds huge.

And since multi timbral setups are dead anyway (everyone has a DAW now) i don't see point of stacking another 48 voices into Kurz. I mean, for what exactly would one need another 48 voices?
Old 10th August 2016
  #27
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EvilDragon's Avatar
It's the same with Kurz as well. If you use more than one layer in a patch, it takes up polyphony. If you use stereo keymaps, it halves the polyphony.

That's why PC3 has 128 layers of poly. 48 just doesn't cut it with programs that can go up to 32 layers...
Old 10th August 2016
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Forte already has a display that's not from the 80s.
Can you or someone comment on how much this improves the user interface for programming VAST? Yeah, it's color and crisper but it still looks awfully small. Thanks.
Old 10th August 2016
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
It's the same with Kurz as well.
Yeah but you can use oscillators there.

Even if you stack 4 of them you still get 48 note poly.
Old 10th August 2016
  #30
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EvilDragon's Avatar
...and a ****load of nasty aliasing because they are naive sawtooth/square DSP oscillators.
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