The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Dead Moog 404 analog board! My worst fear
Old 3rd May 2016
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Dead Moog 404 analog board! My worst fear

Hey slutz,

My worst fear has just been confirmed by Moog HQ, the 404 analog board in my Minimoog Voyager Oldschool is faulty. I could cry!!
To their respect, Moog have been quick to answer and confirm the problem and that they will replace the old board with a new one free of charge - problem is I have to remove the old one and send it to them, or send the entire unit to them at my cost. The issue there is, I'm not hugely confident on the electronics (board level) stuff, and I live in Melbourne, Australia, so sending the whole unit is out of the question due to cost.

Has any of you ever gone through this, and could you provide details on whether this is a task I could perform myself? Or, do you know of a tech in Melbourne that could help out?

I'm so gutted, never saw this coming... But at least Moog are owning up to the issue in manufacturing and will replace a new board under extended warranty.

Note: the reason I found this out, was that MODbus2 amount knob would not function properly. It went from 0% to 100% when turned, at approx the 1-2 mark on front panel. Just an FYI.
Old 3rd May 2016
  #2
Based on this picture it looks like it would be very easy to replace yourself, since everything appears to attach with ribbon cables. Ask Moog for instructions and if any tools are required. Seems like the best option, I wouldn't want to ship the whole synth either. And if you're still worried, find a local tech that would do it. Once they see how easy it is, their price would probably be cheaper than shipping the whole synth.

Good luck.
Old 3rd May 2016
  #3
Gear Addict
 

Thanks mate, tried your picture but went to blank page saying 502 bad gateway...
I'm waiting on Adam at Moog HQ to come back with some instructions on how to remove the board, and I'll post it here in case anyone is looking for this later down the line.
Old 3rd May 2016
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
Based on this picture it looks like it would be very easy to replace yourself, since everything appears to attach with ribbon cables. Ask Moog for instructions and if any tools are required. Seems like the best option, I wouldn't want to ship the whole synth either. And if you're still worried, find a local tech that would do it. Once they see how easy it is, their price would probably be cheaper than shipping the whole synth.

Good luck.
Ahh sweet man, thank you. That doesn't look so bad, I could get that out.
What a bummer this is, my favourite synth. I know there's a lot of online hate about the issues with voyagers but I'll never sell this puppy, it brings too much joy to get salty over this incident.
Thanks again!
Old 4th May 2016
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Its pretty easy to remove the board and install it back into the unit, been through it a few times. Only thing is, new board will likely come back to you severely out of tune and calibration a little off, due to the long travel time and no temperature control during shipping. Tuning is easy to fix on your own, but calibration looks more challenging, and I admit I haven't tried it yet.
Old 4th May 2016
  #6
Best wishes on this. Let us know how it went.
Old 4th May 2016
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubefire View Post
Its pretty easy to remove the board and install it back into the unit, been through it a few times. Only thing is, new board will likely come back to you severely out of tune and calibration a little off, due to the long travel time and no temperature control during shipping. Tuning is easy to fix on your own, but calibration looks more challenging, and I admit I haven't tried it yet.
I had a fear this might also become a problem. I'm still waiting on a more detailed response from Moog, but what will need calibration when I get the new board? CV signals?
I don't have a scope and I'll be damned if I'm going to invest in one because of a fault from parts Moog used. If it needs calibration they should be booking it with a local tech and paying for it, they can't expect users, normal everyday musicians to be performing board level calibration when a unit has a major failure like this.
But I'm not here to bad mouth them, so far they are being transparent and upfront.
Old 5th May 2016
  #8
See if they have a service center in Australia to send it too and let them handle it...
Old 5th May 2016
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by acidlab View Post
I had a fear this might also become a problem. I'm still waiting on a more detailed response from Moog, but what will need calibration when I get the new board? CV signals?
I don't have a scope and I'll be damned if I'm going to invest in one because of a fault from parts Moog used. If it needs calibration they should be booking it with a local tech and paying for it, they can't expect users, normal everyday musicians to be performing board level calibration when a unit has a major failure like this.
But I'm not here to bad mouth them, so far they are being transparent and upfront.
They calibrate it before it leaves the shop I believe, but by the time it arrived to me (weeks later) it was sounding just a little bit "off", even when tuned. Still sounds like a Voyager, but certain things like attack time behave differently then my 2nd voyager, whereas they sounded virtually identical beforehand. Not a huge issue, but somewhat annoying, and I will get around to calibrate it at some point.
Old 5th May 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
 
monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubefire View Post
Its pretty easy to remove the board and install it back into the unit, been through it a few times. Only thing is, new board will likely come back to you severely out of tune and calibration a little off, due to the long travel time and no temperature control during shipping. Tuning is easy to fix on your own, but calibration looks more challenging, and I admit I haven't tried it yet.
How would travel time influence tuning or calibration?
It's not as if a change in temperature along the way would change the board. Once you have it in your house it will be the same as when shipped, assuming the factory had a similar temperature to you home.
Otherwise everyone would have to re-calibrate their moog after traveling with it.

I think it's just how they come out of the factory. It just isn't alligned to the rest of your synth yet.
Old 5th May 2016
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Don't think you need to get all technical if you don't want to. If you're in Melbs there will be a Moog approved center there somewhere. You could pay them some minor fee to sort it out with Moog. You might be looking at $100-$200 plus the shipping cost for the part.

I've had minor issues with one of mine and have dealt with it this way.
Old 5th May 2016
  #12
Gear Addict
 

It's all good fellas, Moog have provided an approved local tech if one is required, but at this point it looks easy enough to get the board replaced. Ive spoken to the local tech already who has confirmed I'm dealing with the lead technical contact at Moog, who will run through in detail what calibration might be required when the new board goes in and how to do it. It sounds like it's straight forward stuff, but knowing someone local is approved by Moog is reassuring, and he said it's no stress to take the voyager in for a couple hours if some things just don't sound right.
I've started an RMA through the Moog website this morning - Australian eastern standard time - so should hopefully have that actioned overnight and moving onto the next step.
Once it's all cover complete I'll post photos and detailed technical notes for anyone who might experience this later on.
I can only praise Moog so far for the support.
Old 5th May 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 
monomer's Avatar
 

In case you have not thought of it (like i did a couple of times) make some photo's of how the board connectors are connected!
Old 5th May 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 
BTByrd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
How would travel time influence tuning or calibration?
It's not as if a change in temperature along the way would change the board. Once you have it in your house it will be the same as when shipped, assuming the factory had a similar temperature to you home.
Otherwise everyone would have to re-calibrate their moog after traveling with it.

I think it's just how they come out of the factory. It just isn't alligned to the rest of your synth yet.
There are a bunch of trimpots on the board for calibration purposes, and they can move during transit.
Old 5th May 2016
  #15
Lives for gear
 
monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
There are a bunch of trimpots on the board for calibration purposes, and they can move during transit.
Are they that sensitive? I was under the impression that you actually need to 'get in there' to make them move.
Old 5th May 2016
  #16
Here for the gear
 

My experience has been that the trim pots are very sensitive. Shipped twice overseas and both times the units arrived very much out of tune, and the 2nd time needed calibration. The unit did not go back into tune without opening it up and performing the tuning procedure. However, i did not experience this problem when shipping between states in the US.
Old 5th May 2016
  #17
Lives for gear
 
monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubefire View Post
My experience has been that the trim pots are very sensitive. Shipped twice overseas and both times the units arrived very much out of tune, [....] However, i did not experience this problem when shipping between states in the US.
that is indeed dodgy... Makes me wonder what might cause this.
Old 5th May 2016
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure either. My guess was that excessive heat and humidity over a prolonged period of time was the cause, but maybe it was just the unit getting dropped or knocked around?
Old 20th May 2016
  #19
Gear Addict
 

UPDATE:

so it's taken two weeks to get a clear answer from Moog and deal with the approved Australian service contact [Audio Chocolate] - spoke with Kieran from Audio Chocolate last week, said he was ordering new boards at the time and could mine into the mix, and was hoping to received them within this week, and he would email me when they were confirmed to arrive. Never heard anything.
Made a call to him earlier in the week, said they had not arrived, but was still hoping to get a confirmation from Moog on arrival date. Never heard back.
Called again today to follow up, and now it's going to be another 2wks before Moog can issue new boards because they have none in stock, and it will be another week of travel time before they are with Audio Chocolate.
Got no follow up phone call, no emails about this. Nothing!!

Pretty frustrated by this bloody experience at the moment! Can't say im too impressed with customer service from A/C either...
OK, rant over.
Old 20th May 2016
  #20
Lives for gear
 
dsetto's Avatar
 

It is very easy and enjoyable to remove and reposition the 404 analog board. It's an opportunity to marvel at the craftsmanship.

I have found Moog support and customer service to be exemplary.
Old 14th July 2016
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Loaded a new board into my voyager couple weeks back, and everything has been working perfectly. Was super easy to do, and what a beautiful engineering job they did on these units, world class
Only a small issue arised, not really an issue as it has been worked around for now - but the tuning of the oscillators was a little bit off. OSC 2 needs its tuning dial slightly sharp to be inline with OSC1, OSC3 wasn't perfect but it was close.
I've got a guide from the techs at Moog on how to tune it, using the trim pots on the Analog board but I'm a little nervous about having it open and turned on whilst trying to use a tiny screwdriver and watch a tuner.
Has anyone got experience with that? Is it fairly easy to do? Seems like it will be a really pain in arse
Old 15th July 2016
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidlab View Post
Loaded a new board into my voyager couple weeks back, and everything has been working perfectly. Was super easy to do, and what a beautiful engineering job they did on these units, world class
Only a small issue arised, not really an issue as it has been worked around for now - but the tuning of the oscillators was a little bit off. OSC 2 needs its tuning dial slightly sharp to be inline with OSC1, OSC3 wasn't perfect but it was close.
I've got a guide from the techs at Moog on how to tune it, using the trim pots on the Analog board but I'm a little nervous about having it open and turned on whilst trying to use a tiny screwdriver and watch a tuner.
Has anyone got experience with that? Is it fairly easy to do? Seems like it will be a really pain in arse
That's great they just sent you a new board. I haven't tuned the oscillators, but I would like to know how (which trimmers). My pots are slightly off as well, but I've never had mine in for a tune-up. Can you share the guide.

It should be really easy to do. You probably can even calibrate the trimmers by ear. Just tune VCO2/3 against VCO1 until the phase is in sync and there is no beating.
Old 15th July 2016
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Moog were really good about the whole thing, it just took a few weeks to get the new board because they ran out of stock and then started building the new run of Model D ...

Here's the tuning guide:
Voyager Tuning Instructions 2010
This guide will walk you through the Voyager tuning process step by step. For additional support, email [email protected].
Note: This document is written for Voyagers with keyboard included. If you have a rack mount, the tuning adjustments are the same. Simply send Midi Note E4 from external keyboard to Voyager to begin tuning. This should correspond to E3 on your electronic tuner.
DISCLAIMER: Please be aware that a Voyager's tuning can easily become worse if done incorrectly. You can also damage a Voyager's electronics and injure yourself by opening a Voyager while it's turned on. By proceeding with these instructions, you are assuming the risks associated with opening the Voyager and adjusting components inside. Any damages and injuries that occur are not the fault of Moog Music Inc. Be mindful of the power supply especially!
You will need:
An electronic tuner
1/4” Cable
A calibration tool (or small flat-head driver) Phillips Screwdriver to open Voyager panel Patience
A brief word on tuning analog synths: When your Voyager is well-tuned, it should have a pleasant 'vocal' quality to it. The oscillators will never be 'exactly' the same pitch in every range and position like a digital synth. This is what gives analog synth their charm. Be reasonable with your expectations. You should have an instrument that sounds “spot-on” across octaves with no beating between the oscillators.
The best way to check your Voyager's tuning is to go to “Init Parameters” in the Edit Menu and then flip the Env Gate (front panel) to On/External (leaves notes on). Play the lowest E on the keyboard. You should hear Osc 1 as a simple square wave. Now flip Osc 2 and 3 on. The three oscillators should track in tune with one another at 8' (Init parameters default), down to 32', up to 1' and finally when you play the highest E on the keyboard on 8.' If they don't sound in tune, this document will explain how to tune them.
This document assumes that you are running the latest Voyager OS 3.5. You can download it for free here for units that include a keyboard.
http://www.moogmusic.com/software/vo...yboard_web.zip
And here for Rack Mounts:
http://www.moogmusic.com/software/vo..._5_rme_web.zip
These instructions assume you are using a Voyager with keyboard included. If you are using a rack mount, just use an external midi controller keyboard to trigger the notes.
Turn the Voyager on and tilt the front panel up. We use a soft wooden block to tilt the unit up here at the factory. You will need to open the Voyager's back panel via five black metal screws. Let the unit warm up for twenty minutes with the back open before checking/adjusting the tuning. Voyagers must get warm to stabilize in tuning.

You will be turning trimmers on this board. They are labeled.
Section 1: Tuning the Pitch Wheel Null and Pitch Wheel
First, check the voltages on the pitch wheel. Go to "Software Version" in the Master Menu and hit enter. Then press 'cursor' to see a hidden menu with the wheel voltages. The pitch wheel should sit at zero, max out at +127 and min at -128.
If the wheel voltages are correct you need to tweak the null. The best way to do this is go to 'Init Parameters' in the Edit Menu. Hit enter and yes. Then flip the gate on and press the lowest E on the Voyager. Go to 'Pitch Wheel' Amount in the Edit menu and put Pitch Bend up at its max value: 2 and a half octaves. Then toggle up once more so PW is off and listen to the note. Did the pitch change? If it did, then adjust RP5 so the low E is the same pitch with pitch wheel at maximum and off.
To tweak RP5, you'll need to open the unit up via five screws on the back and make small, precise adjustments to the analog board.
Some units will have another trimmer next to RP5. This trimmer sets the accuracy of the actual pitch bend itself. It isn't necessary for tuning the oscillators but it will improve the response of the pitch wheel.
Section 2: Tuning the Oscillators
Now, with the Voyager's back open, turn the “Fine Tune” knob slightly past 12 o'clock (perhaps 12:10). Just a tiny bit! You will be tuning the Oscillators to this point because when you close the back up the pitch will go slightly sharp.
Read through all the following instructions before doing the tuning.
Tuning Oscillator 1:
We will explain Osc 1 tuning in detail. It's the same procedure for Osc 2 and 3. The trimmers are listed in the order that you must tune them.
The best way to check your Voyager's tuning is to go to “Init Parameters” in the Edit Menu, choose “yes” and then flip the Env Gate (front panel) to On/External. Play the lowest E on the keyboard. You should hear Osc 1 as a simple square wave. Go to “Pitch Bend Amt” in the Edit Menu and turn Pitch Bend off.
a. Adjust RT2 (Range) so Osc1 is E3.
b. Turn Osc 1 Octave switch to 32.' Adjust RT1 (Scale) until Osc 1 is E1.
c. Repeat a & b until both E3 and E1 are accurate.
d. Turn Osc 1 Octave switch to 1.' Turn RP11 (High) until you get E6.
e. Repeat a, b, and d until they are all accurate.
f. Turn Osc 1 Octave switch to 8' and play high E on keyboard. Adjust RP9 (Keyboard) to get
E5.
g. Repeat a, b, d and f until Osc 1 is in tune in all positions.

Tuning Oscillator 2:
Go to “init parameters” again and turn Osc 1 off. Flip Osc 2 on and repeat the same procedure discussed for Osc 1 with the following trimmers:
a. Range (RT4)
b. Scale (RT3)
c. Repeata&b
d. High (RP20)
e. Repeat a, b and c
f. Keyboard (RP21)
g. Repeat a, b, d and f.
h. Adjust (RP19) for Osc 2 5th
Note: You can load a 5th calibration preset for Step h. Email [email protected] and ask for this preset.
Tuning Oscillator 3:
Note on Osc 3 tuning: Osc 3 has the tendency to sync with Osc 2. You may find it helpful to de-tune Osc 2 before tuning Osc3. Go to “init parameters” and turn Osc 1 off. Then, turn the Osc 2 Freq knob fully counterclockwise and turn the Osc 2 Octave switch down to 32.'
a. Range (RT6)
b. Scale (RT5)
c. Repeata&b
d. High (RP14)
e. Repeat a, b and c
f. Keyboard (RP16)
g. Repeat a, b, d and f.
h. 5th (RP17) – Load 5th calibration preset
i. Lo (RP18) – Switch Osc 3 to Lo and turn Octave switch to 1'. Play highest C on keyboard
and tune.
Note: Be sure to do “init parameters” again before Step i. This will undo the 5th setting used in Step g.
Temperature and time will affect the tuning of all analog synthesizers. After you tune Osc 3 go back through Osc 1 and 2 again. Then re-tune Osc 3. Once you are satisfied with the tuning of all three oscillators, close up the back of the panel and put one screw in. Let the unit warm up for 15 minutes and check everything again. Adjust the Fine Tune knob if necessary. If you need to make any final tweaks, just open the unit quickly and turn the necessary trimmers.
Old 15th July 2016
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
noobist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by acidlab View Post
UPDATE:

so it's taken two weeks to get a clear answer from Moog and deal with the approved Australian service contact [Audio Chocolate] - spoke with Kieran from Audio Chocolate last week, said he was ordering new boards at the time and could mine into the mix, and was hoping to received them within this week, and he would email me when they were confirmed to arrive. Never heard anything.
Made a call to him earlier in the week, said they had not arrived, but was still hoping to get a confirmation from Moog on arrival date. Never heard back.
Called again today to follow up, and now it's going to be another 2wks before Moog can issue new boards because they have none in stock, and it will be another week of travel time before they are with Audio Chocolate.
Got no follow up phone call, no emails about this. Nothing!!

Pretty frustrated by this bloody experience at the moment! Can't say im too impressed with customer service from A/C either...
OK, rant over.
Audio Chocolate are useless bastards!
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump