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Can We Talk about Trackers?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #151
Lives for gear
Renoise is amazing, yet trackers turned out to be the perfect transition for me from piano rolls / step sequencers to text-based, live-coded composition and production.
I now swear by TidalCycles.
Can’t help but consider TC and Renoise somehow similar.
The keyboard driven workflow (and resulting immediacy) is crucial to me.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #152
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
Are you proud, screwing with someone over something like this that occurred years ago?

Get a grip, self appointed moral police.
Proud to support independent developers , sure
Old 3 weeks ago
  #153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
Coach, what midi tracker do you use? I heard the Alesia Mmt8 is like a tracker sequencer
ZTracker.



It hasn't been updated since 2001, but it's always been reliable. Plus being based on Impulse Tracker and all of the shortcuts, you can work hella fast in it. I've been using Renoise a lot the last few years, but even after going in and editing the snot out of the keyboard bindings, there's still a lot of things it can't do as quickly as ZTracker can.

Edit: Overlooked the MMT8 part. Speaking as a former MMT8 user, it's not on the same level. I'll ****-talk DAWs for composition for days, but trackers are the exception to me. To me, DAW's like Reaper and Ableton make the simple complicated, MMT8 celebrates simplicity, and trackers make the complicated simple to do.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexo View Post
I loved using Buzz Tracker (and before that, my favorite was good old Fast Tracker).
Is there anything similar to Buzz Tracker you'd recommend? Is Buzz still going strong, btw?
Renoise is about as close as you can get these days. It doesn't have the built-in modular environment, but it's got a couple dozen good effects and VST/VSTi support for keeping it all ITB.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
I don't recall ever using a Tracker. I may not have ever even looked at one in person, not that I recall at least, which seems a little weird since I've used DAW-ish things since the early 90s.

Is there a good $free Tracker I can DL, with some comprehensive demo songs that really make use of what it's particularly good for, that will give me a good dose of This Is What They're All About in a day or a week?
ModPlug (Now OpenMPT) is a really good one. It's grown up pretty well over the years and even has VST support these days. Renoise is an excellent one with a lot of depth, and the free version can do everything the full version can except for Rewire support and rendering to .wav. Fair warning though: The tracker interface isn't for everybody. You have to keep in mind that it was developed in the early days of computing as a way to work with the limited hardware available at the time, so where it took on a life of its own was in its use of the computer keyboard. Not only is it used for entering notes like a synth keyboard, but keyboard shortcuts are pretty much the soul of the tracker experience. Like with ZTracker, the only time I'm using the mouse is for saving and loading files. In modern trackers like OpenMPT and Renoise, most functions are a right-click away, but to take advantage of the speed that tracking is capable of, you absolutely have to put the mouse away get to know the keyboard shortcuts. If you put in the time to learn it, it becomes an instrument in its own right, and you can work faster than you thought possible. Trackers are especially good for building complicated drum sections. No clicking around. Even in hardware, the closest I've seen is in pseudo-random trigger sequence generation. I wouldn't even recommend a x0x interface if you want the level of detail and speed that a tracker can provide.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #156
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Renoise is about as close as you can get these days. It doesn't have the built-in modular environment, but it's got a couple dozen good effects and VST/VSTi support for keeping it all ITB.
Thanks. I have and user Renoise and think it's a great tracker. I do however miss the modular awesomeness of Buzz Tracker and would love to get back into that
Old 3 weeks ago
  #157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexo View Post
Thanks. I have and user Renoise and think it's a great tracker. I do however miss the modular awesomeness of Buzz Tracker and would love to get back into that
Maybe this could help, then:

http://jeskola.net/buzz/

It looks like Buzz never actually went away, it just got open source. I remember back in the day, it was crash-happy (even when I was doing something as naive and simple as rendering the demo files to .wav for burning to CD, I ran into problems), but I vaguely recall reading elsewhere that it's gotten very stable since then. The new GUI looks great on it. If I weren't so intimidated by it, I'd be willing to try it myself.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #158
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Maybe this could help, then:

http://jeskola.net/buzz/

It looks like Buzz never actually went away, it just got open source. I remember back in the day, it was crash-happy (even when I was doing something as naive and simple as rendering the demo files to .wav for burning to CD, I ran into problems), but I vaguely recall reading elsewhere that it's gotten very stable since then. The new GUI looks great on it. If I weren't so intimidated by it, I'd be willing to try it myself.
Aha! Great, thanks for the link. I too had crashes all the time. But if it's gotten stable, then I'll look into it again. Some of the coolest times making music was with Buzz Tracker. It's really not difficult to use.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexo View Post
Aha! Great, thanks for the link. I too had crashes all the time. But if it's gotten stable, then I'll look into it again. Some of the coolest times making music was with Buzz Tracker. It's really not difficult to use.
Knowing what I know now, it's probably much easier to use than I think it is, but I'll totally go into it looking for confirmation bias that it's too hard.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #160
Gear Addict
 
B_and_W's Avatar
 

I used to be a part of a few 0day cracking/demoscene groups. I was a cracker/keygenner/gamehacker but I had a great time playing with ProTracker and Fasttracker. Trying to literally "write" your samples, tuning them was a pain in the ass, playing with the arps which always was effect X4X, vibrato was I believe X6X. It might sound weird but cracking and gamehacking I enjoyed more than making music on these trackers. I guess it was more of a challenge.

I really really loved the 4 channel mono amiga chiptune music, cracktro's, intro's, trainers.

I had done some chiptunes, logos and a few keygen/patcher/trainer skins when I was in the PC scene. Oh man the memories, staying awake till the next day just to crack some application before some other group pre'd it just to find out that it got nuked because the crack of the rival group was smaller. Game hacking was even way worse, trying to figure out why your hack does work in the debugger but not in the trainer. That crap kept me awake for hours.

Not so long ago I had found a YouTube video with my chiptune in it, it was hillarious since I "wrote" and composed that tune many years ago. Unfortunately I can't post anything related to that stuff here since those 0day groups are still active today.

These scene groups have their own IRC chat channels, it's really hard to join them but I heard some rumors that on some channels the feds had infiltrated, thank God I never joined any chat channel with an exception to see if some application was already released or not. Oh man I really miss the headache Assembly and C gave me. Eventually I lost interests in this "scene" hobby and ended up doing more serious graphics and music. Thanks for this topic, it brought up so many great memories some of the best memories of my life!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #161
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
You should be proud of yourself , using a cracked copy of a fantastic piece of software at a bargain price
I don’t particularly care to get into this as it’s off topic. I’m not particularly proud of it. It was also around a decade ago and I was out of work due to the global economic collapse, and even $60 at that time was more than I could spare for software I wasn’t sure if I’d get on with. I’m also not particularly ashamed of it either, as I think I tried using it for about an hour or two at most and couldn’t make heads or tails of it, so it would have been wasted money I didn’t have to waste at that time. I’ve since actually learned how trackers work and plan to buy both Renoise and Redux sometime this year. I’m not sure you really needed the explanation, but there it is. Can we get back to the topic at hand now?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #162
Talking cracks is taboo around here, but I have to admit that though downloading the demo for Ableton made me curious, but then trying to full version without paying gave me the opportunity to find out that I really don't like the Ableton workflow in a practical environment without having to blow $500+ to find that out. As a guy that has at least $500 in plugins that are collecting virtual dust from nonuse, I really appreciated being given the opportunity to find out I didn't like Ableton before the money was spent. Turns out that $75 for Renoise and $60 was money much more effectively spent for me.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #163
Gear Addict
 
B_and_W's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Talking cracks is taboo around here, but I have to admit that though downloading the demo for Ableton made me curious, but then trying to full version without paying gave me the opportunity to find out that I really don't like the Ableton workflow in a practical environment without having to blow $500+ to find that out. As a guy that has at least $500 in plugins that are collecting virtual dust from nonuse, I really appreciated being given the opportunity to find out I didn't like Ableton before the money was spent. Turns out that $75 for Renoise and $60 was money much more effectively spent for me.
My post has a totally different intention and context, chiptunes/tracker music are a part of the demoscene which is a part of the cracking scene. Demo groups with a cracking division will deny this and always say that they have nothing to do with the cracking division but in reality the same guy who's coding the demos and cracktros is behind the cracks themselves.

You can't talk about piracy but you're allowed to post music from YouTube which is all pirated

I remember Renoise, it was a huge upgrade if you used Madtracker. I never liked those trackers, they had VSTi support but it was very messed up.
Old 3 days ago
  #164
Lives for gear
 
mpresev's Avatar
You know what I like about RENOISE? let's say we've sequenced 10 tracks to create a pattern, to the left we see the arrangement boxes.. I can copy, cut, duplicate those boxes to create the next pattern. This is what helps me see what to do next to that new song. WHat an awesome way to create a track.

With Logic Pro X that I still respect of course, I feel i'm just adjusting this or that setting instead of making sequences.


BTW, i've done research to see what other Trackers are out there for kicks and giggles. All I see are programs from 95. I guess RENOISE is the only Tracker program today?

Will IMPULSE Tracker work on my IMAC I7?


I'm very active on the RENOISE message boards.
Old 2 days ago
  #165
Gear Addict
 
B_and_W's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
BTW, i've done research to see what other Trackers are out there for kicks and giggles. All I see are programs from 95. I guess RENOISE is the only Tracker program today?

Will IMPULSE Tracker work on my IMAC I7?


I'm very active on the RENOISE message boards.
There are many new trackers. They're still very popular in the demoscene. MadTracker supports VSTi's, Milkytracker is like FastTracker and ProTracker suitable for oldskool chiptune music. There are a few "new" C64 and ZX80 trackers for PC.
Old 2 days ago
  #166
Gear Maniac
 
locojohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Maybe this could help, then:

http://jeskola.net/buzz/

It looks like Buzz never actually went away, it just got open source. I remember back in the day, it was crash-happy (even when I was doing something as naive and simple as rendering the demo files to .wav for burning to CD, I ran into problems), but I vaguely recall reading elsewhere that it's gotten very stable since then. The new GUI looks great on it. If I weren't so intimidated by it, I'd be willing to try it myself.
Buzz has never been open source. The API to write Buzz Machines is open source.
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