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Dave Smith Pioneer DJ Collaboration: Toraiz SP-16
Old 8th June 2019
  #3901
mp3
Lives for gear
 

I’d buy it again in a heartbeat. I’m still smitten with the thing, warts and all. And I think you’re right in assessing it as an instrument and not a workstation. There are still a few things that I’d like to see tweaked to make it a better instrument, but regardless, as long as you regard it as an instrument I think there’s a fair chance you’ll like it.

I would advise you take the time to read through maybe the last 15-20 pages of this thread though, just to make sure you know what you’re getting into. Lots of great insight to be had here.
Old 8th June 2019
  #3902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic38 View Post
every pad has a default setting, which includes pitch.
more importantly, for each pad, you can adjust a large numbers of parameters, incl pitch, velocity, start time, envelopes, fx etc on a PER STEP basis..
Every Track can have those different settings. In Slice mode as the question was posed, all 16 pads are controlling just one Track with one default pitch setting.

To change pitch of individual slices you would need to lock pitch on different steps using the sequencer - which is what I think you were saying at the end, but I didn't want the person asking the original question to be confused.

Last edited by soundxplorer; 8th June 2019 at 02:15 PM..
Old 8th June 2019
  #3903
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkidd401 View Post
Thanks for all of the insight, guys!

I’m seriously considering buying the SP-16. From what I’ve gathered the unit sounds great, has awesome DSI filters and has a very simplified UI that makes it easy grasp.

Unfortunately, what I’ve also gathered is that people are really disappointed with it as a product and Pioneer’s customer support is not handling it well at all.

I watched a few comparison videos between it and the MPC live and I still prefer the SP-16s simple work flow. My preference in the past is keyboard samplers/sequencers.

So I guess my next question is, would any of you guys still consider buying a SP-16 now for music production or would you go in a different direction? I’m trying to test one in person but from what I’m reading, folks main issue seems to be that it’s not an MPC Live (which in my opinion is a big DAW in a box and is the exact thing that I’m trying to avoid). Is there something else that I’m missing that really makes this unit tedious to use, limiting, cumbersome or difficult to use in comparison to other available sampler/sequencers on the market?

It’s main use for me would be to make experimental sample based compositions and record synth riffs directly into it from my OB-6 and Moog Matriarch when it arrives.
One thing that might bother you is that the sequencer cant record incoming midi.
Old 8th June 2019
  #3904
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OggyOgg View Post
One thing that might bother you is that the sequencer cant record incoming midi.
Wasn’t planning on using midi to be honest. Since the audio quality sounds so nice I was going to just record synths directly into it.
Old 8th June 2019
  #3905
Deleted 063dc0d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkidd401 View Post
Thanks for all of the insight, guys!

I’m seriously considering buying the SP-16. From what I’ve gathered the unit sounds great, has awesome DSI filters and has a very simplified UI that makes it easy grasp.

Unfortunately, what I’ve also gathered is that people are really disappointed with it as a product and Pioneer’s customer support is not handling it well at all.

I watched a few comparison videos between it and the MPC live and I still prefer the SP-16s simple work flow. My preference in the past is keyboard samplers/sequencers.

So I guess my next question is, would any of you guys still consider buying a SP-16 now for music production or would you go in a different direction? I’m trying to test one in person but from what I’m reading, folks main issue seems to be that it’s not an MPC Live (which in my opinion is a big DAW in a box and is the exact thing that I’m trying to avoid). Is there something else that I’m missing that really makes this unit tedious to use, limiting, cumbersome or difficult to use in comparison to other available sampler/sequencers on the market?

It’s main use for me would be to make experimental sample based compositions and record synth riffs directly into it from my OB-6 and Moog Matriarch when it arrives.
This is how I use mine. I sample loops or one shot hits into it.

I don’t try to use it as a “synth” for chords and pads etc

That’s 16 stereo tracks.

I sample soft synths or my hardware synths.

I can break up these loops with playing the pads or retriggering.

It’s kinda like a hardware version of Magix Acid.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3906
Gear Maniac
 

Late to the party, but I'm considering selling my SH101 - or maybe my RYTM mk 2 - for an SP16. I have an SH09, so the SH101 won't be too much of a loss. I tend to be very linear when I write a song, so I was wondering if it's fairly straightforward to make a fully fleshed out track with the SP16 ie: is there a "song mode" for a lack of a better term? I usually write synth pop type songs with vocals, so I want to ensure it's relatively straightforward and comprehensible for creating clear "vocals" sections instead of more of a jam.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3907
Lives for gear
 

We ALL missed Toraiz SP-16's firmware birthday! Shame on us. Last update was 1.50 on June 7th 2018.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3908
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novosibirsk View Post
Late to the party, but I'm considering selling my SH101 - or maybe my RYTM mk 2 - for an SP16. I have an SH09, so the SH101 won't be too much of a loss. I tend to be very linear when I write a song, so I was wondering if it's fairly straightforward to make a fully fleshed out track with the SP16 ie: is there a "song mode" for a lack of a better term? I usually write synth pop type songs with vocals, so I want to ensure it's relatively straightforward and comprehensible for creating clear "vocals" sections instead of more of a jam.
I'd suggest you go watch Pioneer tutorials, everything is explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55NtFGAwLA

But yes there is a song mode called "arranger".
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3909
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2 View Post
I'd suggest you go watch Pioneer tutorials, everything is explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55NtFGAwLA

But yes there is a song mode called "arranger".
Right, thanks, I should've done that haha. I was scrolling through pages of videos with none that explained this.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novosibirsk View Post
Late to the party, but I'm considering selling my SH101 - or maybe my RYTM mk 2 - for an SP16. I have an SH09, so the SH101 won't be too much of a loss.
The Arranger is the equivalent of Song Mode. Like most drum machines, the SP-16 is pattern-based, but the Arranger lets you string patterns together and play them in whatever order you want to create a song.

And I'll offer an unsolicited opinion - keep the 101 and sell the SH-09 instead. Aside from the sequencer (obvious) the 101 has another important feature that the 09 lacks: filter tracking from the keyboard. To me that is an essential parameter that really makes synth lines more expressive.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3911
Lives for gear
 
Shadowkast's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I’d buy it again in a heartbeat. I’m still smitten with the thing, warts and all. And I think you’re right in assessing it as an instrument and not a workstation. There are still a few things that I’d like to see tweaked to make it a better instrument, but regardless, as long as you regard it as an instrument I think there’s a fair chance you’ll like it.
I couldn't agree more. For my uses, it's a magical "make everything sound great" box. A secret sauce on whatever I run through it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3912
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
The Arranger is the equivalent of Song Mode. Like most drum machines, the SP-16 is pattern-based, but the Arranger lets you string patterns together and play them in whatever order you want to create a song.

And I'll offer an unsolicited opinion - keep the 101 and sell the SH-09 instead. Aside from the sequencer (obvious) the 101 has another important feature that the 09 lacks: filter tracking from the keyboard. To me that is an essential parameter that really makes synth lines more expressive.

Awesome, the SP16 is looking more and more appealing. I guess my main concern is the strange implementation for programming chords via MIDI out.

Good point re: the SH101. I generally like the SH09's tone for bass, but I may keep both and sell the RYTM. Do you think I'd need a RYTM when the SP16 will cover all my bases drum-wise?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novosibirsk View Post
Do you think I'd need a RYTM when the SP16 will cover all my bases drum-wise?
This is just my personal experience, having bought and sold a lot of modern sampling drum machines over the past year. The SP-16 was the clear winner for me because it is very easy to use and sounds great. 16 stereo voices helped tipped the decision as well. I had a Rytm mkII for a while and it is very good too, but I rarely used the analog synthesis parts. You can create a lot of classic Roland drum sounds with your 101 or 09 and sample them.

The other thing that eventually soured me on the Rytm mkII is that the Amp envelope does not re-trigger until the Decay stage has finished. This might seem like a minor detail, but once you start adjusting the Sample Start parameter to play different sections within a long sample, that waveform won't always start at the zero crossing point and you'll get pops and clicks. On the SP-16 I can just set the Attack to a low value (2 or 3) to prevent clicks, since the envelope re-triggers the Attack phase with each new note.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3914
Lives for gear
 

Incoming SP16 ETA tomorrow afternoon.Will report back with findings shortly.Looking forward to a big awaited update in the near future
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3915
Lives for gear
 

Song mode goes like this..

you make patterns.. you make scenes

Song mode then says:

play (eg)
scene 2 pattern 1 x1 (time)
scene 1 pattern 4 x4
scene 2 pattern 6 x8

etc..

there is no possibility to record a linear lengthy vocal (or any other track)..but a few lines at a time?.. sure.

so while you can make great pattern based music on the sp16 and its an outstanding sounding sampler, it is not a daw and not really for "recording" per se.


s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novosibirsk View Post
Late to the party, but I'm considering selling my SH101 - or maybe my RYTM mk 2 - for an SP16. I have an SH09, so the SH101 won't be too much of a loss. I tend to be very linear when I write a song, so I was wondering if it's fairly straightforward to make a fully fleshed out track with the SP16 ie: is there a "song mode" for a lack of a better term? I usually write synth pop type songs with vocals, so I want to ensure it's relatively straightforward and comprehensible for creating clear "vocals" sections instead of more of a jam.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3916
Lives for gear
 

congrats!

for all the griping its a fine sounding and superbly built bit of gear and truth be told, like any other piece of gear here at GS we prefer to moan about it rather than get on with it..lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Incoming SP16 ETA tomorrow afternoon.Will report back with findings shortly.Looking forward to a big awaited update in the near future
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Incoming SP16 ETA tomorrow afternoon.Will report back with findings shortly.Looking forward to a big awaited update in the near future
Congrats!
I know there's a long list of feature requests from the community, but honestly this box does pretty much everything I want it to do. Off the top of my head the one thing I hope they fix is a glitch with the touch strip. In some cases while playing the pads, modulating a parameter with the touch strip at the same time will cause some notes to be skipped. That's a bug, not a feature request.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3918
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkidd401 View Post
So I guess my next question is, would any of you guys still consider buying a SP-16 now for music production or would you go in a different direction?
I just bought a 2nd one a few months ago so, yes. Even considering all its faults and frustrations, I still think it's the greatest sample playback instrument ever made.

I've gone from tinkering and making noise in the studio for 20 years to actually putting out records and well received live performances over the last 3yrs. I can honestly thank the SP-16 for much of that even though at times I can imagine myself choking the life out of one of the developers with my bare hands.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3919
Gear Maniac
 

I see that Pioneer is still supporting Toraiz SQUID on their page, so probably SP-16 isn't so dead yet. There is some hope to see them making upgrades so people can think of buying both to work together.

Im thinking on buying both units (SQUID is finally a good sequencer for SP-16), but I´d like to understand the todays limitations with this combo:

1) Can I program P-Lock changes on Squid to affect SP-16 parameters??
2) Can I automate the analog filter from Squid???
3) Now with the harmonizer on SQUID, can it plays chords over SP-16 samples?
4) For $600 is SQUID the best option to control SP-16???


5) Maybe wait long long long time until Pioneer x Toraiz decides if they really are together or not and buy a possible "Super SquidSP-16 workstation"?????

Any clues???

thanks
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3920
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
I see that Pioneer is still supporting Toraiz SQUID on their page, so probably SP-16 isn't so dead yet. There is some hope to see them making upgrades so people can think of buying both to work together.

Im thinking on buying both units (SQUID is finally a good sequencer for SP-16), but I´d like to understand the todays limitations with this combo:

1) Can I program P-Lock changes on Squid to affect SP-16 parameters??
2) Can I automate the analog filter from Squid???
3) Now with the harmonizer on SQUID, can it plays chords over SP-16 samples?
4) For $600 is SQUID the best option to control SP-16???


5) Maybe wait long long long time until Pioneer x Toraiz decides if they really are together or not and buy a possible "Super SquidSP-16 workstation"?????

Any clues???

thanks
1) In the SP16 manual addendum, they list all the parameters that are exposed to midi CCs. You can control any of them from pretty much any sequencer as long as it supports CCs.
2) nope
3) yep
4) Can’t answer that but I’m sure they’d be fun together.
5) Anybody’s guess what they do or when they do it, but I don’t get the sense they’ll release another sampler with Dave Smiths filter. To me that filter is what brings the whole package together so without it I don’t know if they can create a superior box.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3921
Lives for gear
 

who has better P.Locks, elektron or pioneer and why?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3922
Gear Maniac
 

More questions for the users (really into buying this combo Squid+SP16)

1) The quality of the PADs are equally good as MPC Live, or Machine Mk3???? better? worse?

2) Let's say that Pioneer don't update anymore this machine, are you having any real problem with bugs or hardware problems?

3) the live looping is working well?? is it quantized? (do I have to fine adjust the loop after recording loops in realtime?)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3923
Lives for gear
 

Update-The seller had me hanging (kind of) and then sold the SP16 to someone else.Did not tell me straight away,and we had already decided to trade.The moron.The good news is ive got enough recent sampler sequencer machines here atm (Ensoni1 asrx,mpc2000,1000,roland mc909 ect) and dont really need it right now.That filter tho...........
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Update-The seller had me hanging (kind of) and then sold the SP16 to someone else.
Are you in the US? I got mine for $850 brand new from Ebay. Maybe some places in Europe are blowing them out too?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-DJ-...r/153437596442

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
1) The quality of the PADs are equally good as MPC Live, or Machine Mk3???? better? worse?
I haven't used the MPC Live, but I've had a few older MPCs. The SP-16 pads are great in my opinion. Perfect feel, reliable, and velocity curve is nice. Better pads than the Rytm (mkI or II) for sure.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3925
Deleted 063dc0d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain 8 View Post
who has better P.Locks, elektron or pioneer and why?
Prolly the Elektron. But it depends on which machine. The Octatrack has more trig types like trigless trigs.

The RYTM has I think 42 locks per scene. I don’t think the SP-16 has this many parameters.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3926
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
Are you in the US? I got mine for $850 brand new from Ebay. Maybe some places in Europe are blowing them out too?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-DJ-...r/153437596442
It's already mine!!! I just bought it. I hope it isn't bad for this price. Brand new one, never used for 850 dollars??? The bad reputation of this careless machine is so bad like this???? Hope I made a good choice. Why this price for a brand new SP16???
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
It's already mine!!! I just bought it. I hope it isn't bad for this price. Brand new one, never used for 850 dollars??? The bad reputation of this careless machine is so bad like this???? Hope I made a good choice. Why this price for a brand new SP16???
I bought mine from that same dealer on Ebay, it arrived brand new, no problems. So don't worry.
I guess the future of the SP-16 has been up in the air for a while, and some places have been discounting their remaining stock. ProAudioStar had B-Stock units for $799 a few months ago, but they sold out and now it's not even listed on their website.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3928
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
I bought mine from that same dealer on Ebay, it arrived brand new, no problems. So don't worry.
I guess the future of the SP-16 has been up in the air for a while, and some places have been discounting their remaining stock. ProAudioStar had B-Stock units for $799 a few months ago, but they sold out and now it's not even listed on their website.
At least we have a great product for this great price. But I'm very sad that SP16 is finishing like this. Why? Why this incredible machine is ending?? The BEST sounding from all samplers on the market, the most intuitive, great build quality, fast.... WHY finish this product???

Now they made Squid to be the perfect partner for SP16, so why stop updating the sampler??? If they made it better, people would buy the combo more and more. The only reason to stop updating SP16 is to make a new better sampler to work with Squid, but they didn't made another one. So there is something missing in this story...

And why dropping the price almost 50% just because there is no more updates??? This machine is still better than MPC live. I heard it and it sounds weaker, it seems that the high frequencies were smeared. Lows lost definition. Actually it seems that everything that goes inside Octatrack, MPC Live or OP1, gets worse, loose quality... So WHY finishing SP16????? Am I wrong? I paid $850 on a brand new SP16 today thinking that the world don't understand what is the real thing (I would have paid even $1200). Anyone thinks that I'm wrong??
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3929
Lives for gear
 
Cornish1999's Avatar
SP16 mk2 on the way probably
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3930
Lives for gear
 
drxcm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weile View Post
Why? ... WHY finish this product??? ... So WHY finishing SP16????? Am I wrong?
Probably because it didn’t sell well. And they got a lot of flak on reviews.

Agree it sounds awesome
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