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Dave Smith Pioneer DJ Collaboration: Toraiz SP-16
Old 4th May 2019
  #3871
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodog View Post
If you don't use internal sequencing, does it react fast and reliable (qua timing) with miditriggering?
I have had no timing issues with it when triggering samples via MIDI. It works fine.
Old 4th May 2019
  #3872
Thanks!
Old 6th May 2019
  #3873
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
Pioneer DJ is for Sale : Resident Adviser Article

This could be GREAT news for the future of the Toraiz brand

Any new owner will likely want to keep customers happy
Old 7th May 2019
  #3874
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Pioneer DJ is for Sale : Resident Adviser Article

This could be GREAT news for the future of the Toraiz brand

Any new owner will likely want to keep customers happy
It’s a shame there aren’t many equity capital types that have tons of money and the desire to create ridiculous gear.
Old 7th May 2019
  #3875
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Pioneer DJ is for Sale : Resident Adviser Article

This could be GREAT news for the future of the Toraiz brand

Any new owner will likely want to keep customers happy
Or not. Hard to say what a buyout could do to a brand and their future products. They could also end up with some blood suckers of PE investors. Shakeups don't usually bode well for expediting initiatives.

I hope it's all good news for Toraiz though! I think the line is great.
Old 8th May 2019
  #3876
Gear Maniac
Well, that could explain a lot. If the company is in a constant state of crisis it would be kind of hard to stick to a solid road map. And provide good customer support. And be motivated.

Let’s hope they stabilise and get a new injection of funds, energy and pride.
Old 8th May 2019
  #3877
Here for the gear
 

It is more likely they are doing well.

https://djtechtools.com/2019/05/06/p...again-in-2019/
Old 8th May 2019
  #3878
Deleted 063dc0d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodog View Post
I'm suddenly a bit interested in this thing for using it as a very basic studiosampler. Maybe just to slice a drumloop on a couple of pads and on another couple have some atmospheric sampes that are editted/looped/timestretched.

If you don't use internal sequencing, does it react fast and reliable (qua timing) with miditriggering?

Is this a good idea in general?
I have two SP16. They sync to my OT perfectly. But then again, I don’t run tracks for an hour straight.

The internal sequencing is what is dope.

And the slice is just awesome.

I’ll sample a synth loop have the entire beat playing.

Select the sample track with your finger, press slice and you can now manually tap out your own pattern. On the reloop it snaps back to the original.

The sequencer is dope because you can use it to make cool retrigger fx like you can on Elektron boxes.

Press the step button and change a parameter, too.

The Sp16 is a great addition to a setup, no doubt. My Analog RYTM and Octatrack love my SP16s.

They are a team.
Old 8th May 2019
  #3879
Cheers, I've bought one and had a jam with it yesterday. Love the slice function and the FX parameter lock thingy. Don't understand exactly what you mean with "reloop" but it doesn't matter, I'll find out it's possibilities in the coming weeks.

It seems simple enough to comprehend. might miss some useful functions due to that but I rather have some limitations on functions than a deep menudiving machine that can do all.
Those are almost always a hell to learn your way around and if you don't use it for a month you can start to learn it again.

I'm so glad I found this!
Old 8th May 2019
  #3880
Deleted 063dc0d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodog View Post
Cheers, I've bought one and had a jam with it yesterday. Love the slice function and the FX parameter lock thingy. Don't understand exactly what you mean with "reloop" but it doesn't matter, I'll find out it's possibilities in the coming weeks.

It seems simple enough to comprehend. might miss some useful functions due to that but I rather have some limitations on functions than a deep menudiving machine that can do all.
Those are almost always a hell to learn your way around and if you don't use it for a month you can start to learn it again.

I'm so glad I found this!
I just mean, when I have samples sequenced a certain way, say a long synth loop, I can hit slice tap out a rhythm or something and then when the pattern loops it snaps exactly back.

It’s like the Elektron reload function.
Old 15th May 2019
  #3881
So I just caved and bought one, there are some good deals on Ebay. Seems like a really great interface, having watched a bunch of demo videos lately. Question about the pad colors - are they freely assignable? Can I make all 16 pads the same color in Track and Performance mode (i.e. whatever color is dimmest and least annoying).
Old 15th May 2019
  #3882
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
the pad colors - are they freely assignable?
Yes
Old 21st May 2019
  #3883
Question regarding pattern length:

If I set the pattern to 4 bars and then press step key #12 , it will only shorten the 4th bar to 12 steps. So I get four bars that play back like this: 16, 16, 16, 12.

I was trying to create a pattern in 6/8 time, and I expected to get four bars like this instead: 12, 12, 12 ,12. Is there any way to do that on the SP-16?
Old 21st May 2019
  #3884
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
Question regarding pattern length:

If I set the pattern to 4 bars and then press step key #12 , it will only shorten the 4th bar to 12 steps. So I get four bars that play back like this: 16, 16, 16, 12.

I was trying to create a pattern in 6/8 time, and I expected to get four bars like this instead: 12, 12, 12 ,12. Is there any way to do that on the SP-16?
You could make 4x 1 bar/12 step patterns and then just manually switch between them or use the arranger.
Old 22nd May 2019
  #3885
So that's a "no"? Can't have a single pattern that plays 12, 12, 12, 12?
Old 22nd May 2019
  #3886
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
So that's a "no"? Can't have a single pattern that plays 12, 12, 12, 12?
That’s a no. As another alternative to disco’s suggestion, you could make your pattern 48 steps long and just visualize it as four 12-bar measures.
Old 22nd May 2019
  #3887
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
That’s a no. As another alternative to disco’s suggestion, you could make your pattern 48 steps long and just visualize it as four 12-bar measures.
Right, so it's the same way Elektron does it.

I just disagree with that approach. I understand it lets you have any number of odd steps in a pattern up to 64, but it would be so easy for a device to display them in a far more useful and logical way. Doing it the other way eliminates the possibility of a few odd-numbers (starting with 17, 19, 23, 25 etc.) but it would seem to me that having four bars displayed the other way would be used more often than those odd numbers.
Old 22nd May 2019
  #3888
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
Right, so it's the same way Elektron does it.

I just disagree with that approach. I understand it lets you have any number of odd steps in a pattern up to 64, but it would be so easy for a device to display them in a far more useful and logical way. Doing it the other way eliminates the possibility of a few odd-numbers (starting with 17, 19, 23, 25 etc.) but it would seem to me that having four bars displayed the other way would be used more often than those odd numbers.
I'm not really following. What you want is 1 bar patterns. You can do that. You just treat them as separate patterns. Set the length for each to whatever you want and then manually switch between them or string them together in the arrangement mode.
Old 22nd May 2019
  #3889
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Been having a great time with the SP16. My full rig is currently in storage and I don't even have a desk to work on at the moment. I've been using the SP16 on the couch to sketch out tracks and sequencing and clocking one external synth with it, and feeding the synth's audio to the SP16's input- no external mixer required. Working great! I've been driving the TT303 from the SP16's MIDI clock and the timing is tight... sh*t's tight yo.
This has proven a real boon for my creativity these days. Theres a lot to be said for a simple DAW-less setup that actually sounds good... the built in effects are pretty sweet.
Old 22nd May 2019
  #3890
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I just disagree with that approach.
Well, these requests for odd time signatures, polymeters and all that jazz, always come up... but this is a machine aimed at people doing 4/4 dance beats primarily. Just use the arranger!
Old 23rd May 2019
  #3891
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDevil View Post
I'm not really following. What you want is 1 bar patterns. You can do that. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebase DMX View Post
Well, these requests for odd time signatures, polymeters and all that jazz, always come up... but this is a machine aimed at people doing 4/4 dance beats primarily. Just use the arranger!
Arranger/song mode, of course it can be done. Making patterns one measure long will use up your pattern storage 4x as fast though, plus make composing and editing tedious. It's a waste of effort, might as well just make patterns 48 steps long and deal with the "down beat" being weird when you change through the 4 page/measure buttons.

Anyway, my point is what is the musical advantage of NOT doing it the other way? The Electribes work perfectly like this. In the 12x4 example you have a pattern that is 48 steps long either way...the ONLY difference is how it gets displayed on the buttons. It doesn't change anything about 4/4, so it's a win/win for everyone.

Last edited by soundxplorer; 23rd May 2019 at 02:00 AM..
Old 23rd May 2019
  #3892
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
Arranger/song mode, of course it can be done. Making patterns one measure long will use up your pattern storage 4x as fast though, plus make composing and editing tedious. It's a waste of effort, might as well just make patterns 48 steps long and deal with the "down beat" being weird when you change through the 4 page/measure buttons.

Anyway, my point is what is the musical advantage of NOT doing it the other way? The Electribes work perfectly like this. In the 12x4 example you have a pattern that is 48 steps long either way...the ONLY difference is how it gets displayed on the buttons. It doesn't change anything about 4/4, so it's a win/win for everyone.

The Electribes let you have different step lengths per bar within a 4 bar pattern? I can see how it would be easy to implement in just midi but when you're trying to do real time timestretched audio, I could see this being a mess. Dunno. I'd just do 4 separate patterns of whatever length you want and then sample the audio that's generated from that and work with just the audio. I realize you're probably not actually looking for workarounds to the issue but unfortunately, work arounds are how most stuff gets done on the SP-16.
Old 23rd May 2019
  #3893
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDevil View Post
The Electribes let you have different step lengths per bar within a 4 bar pattern?
Not different per bar, each bar will be the same. But you can choose less than 16 steps. For example, in the video below this guy set the step count to 11 and he has 8 bars in the pattern. So you'll see the bar light advance after 11 steps within each one.

@ 5:52 when he presses play:




Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDevil View Post
I realize you're probably not actually looking for workarounds to the issue but unfortunately, work arounds are how most stuff gets done on the SP-16.
Yeah, I'm not trying to complain (too much), I like the SP-16. It sounds great and it is easy to use.
I'm just a bit confused about why the Electribe way isn't more of a standard for step sequencers. The people who play in 4/4 all the time would never notice a difference. But occasionally when I want a triplet feel, or some odd step count, it would make it a lot easier to visualize each bar when composing a beat. Technically there's no difference regarding what gets played, the sequencer is still going to count to X steps for a pattern then repeat. But it is adjusting the visual feedback from the machine to be more user-friendly in my opinion.

Last edited by soundxplorer; 23rd May 2019 at 09:10 PM..
Old 7th June 2019
  #3894
Here for the gear
 

I am interested in buying the Toraiz SP-16. I’ve watched the tutorials and I think I have a basic idea of how it works. I was wondering though, if I slice a sample will I then be able to adjust the pitch of all of the sliced sample by going to the sample play back screen? I know that might be a basic question but I can’t find a video of anyone adjusting the pitch after chopping up a sample. Really odd so I figured I would ask.
Old 7th June 2019
  #3895
Lives for gear
 

The slicing is basically just adding trigger start points, it doesn't create separate samples. AFAIK it is still treated as one sample so the pitch parameter will affect all of it. You can pitch individual slices on the sequencer.
Old 7th June 2019
  #3896
Lives for gear
 

every pad has a default setting, which includes pitch.
more importantly, for each pad, you can adjust a large numbers of parameters, incl pitch, velocity, start time, envelopes, fx etc on a PER STEP basis..

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkidd401 View Post
I am interested in buying the Toraiz SP-16. I’ve watched the tutorials and I think I have a basic idea of how it works. I was wondering though, if I slice a sample will I then be able to adjust the pitch of all of the sliced sample by going to the sample play back screen? I know that might be a basic question but I can’t find a video of anyone adjusting the pitch after chopping up a sample. Really odd so I figured I would ask.
Old 7th June 2019
  #3897
Lives for gear
Pio update this unit today or I'm mobilising forces
Old 7th June 2019
  #3898
Lives for gear
 

Now that Toraiz has become a separate brand, the SP-16 will likely soon disappear off Pioneer's website and the chances of an update are not significantly greater than zero.
We need a hero to leak the firmware and get it hacked.
Old 7th June 2019
  #3899
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for all of the insight, guys!

I’m seriously considering buying the SP-16. From what I’ve gathered the unit sounds great, has awesome DSI filters and has a very simplified UI that makes it easy grasp.

Unfortunately, what I’ve also gathered is that people are really disappointed with it as a product and Pioneer’s customer support is not handling it well at all.

I watched a few comparison videos between it and the MPC live and I still prefer the SP-16s simple work flow. My preference in the past is keyboard samplers/sequencers.

So I guess my next question is, would any of you guys still consider buying a SP-16 now for music production or would you go in a different direction? I’m trying to test one in person but from what I’m reading, folks main issue seems to be that it’s not an MPC Live (which in my opinion is a big DAW in a box and is the exact thing that I’m trying to avoid). Is there something else that I’m missing that really makes this unit tedious to use, limiting, cumbersome or difficult to use in comparison to other available sampler/sequencers on the market?

It’s main use for me would be to make experimental sample based compositions and record synth riffs directly into it from my OB-6 and Moog Matriarch when it arrives.
Old 8th June 2019
  #3900
Lives for gear
 

My take on the SP-16 after a couple of years is this: It isn't the best as your one and only sampler. Sample management is very limited and only 16 sounds without polyphony for chords or overlapping sample playback is also very limited. BUT it is a great complement to another sampler like an older MPC because the SP-16 has modern wav file compatibility, reatime stretching, per step parameters, filter box on the output. It makes a great inspirational addition, maybe not the center of your setup.
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