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Really don't like the modern analogue synths, gonna have to be vintage Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 2nd March 2016
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Really don't like the modern analogue synths, gonna have to be vintage

So having listened to loads of demo's of the new OB6 it doesn't do it for me. I prefer the Prophet 6 but it still hasn't got that vintage tone.

Really like the Matrixbrute too but it's not poly.

Has anyone got any of the following:-

Roland Jupiter 4
Korg Polysix
Sequential Circuits Prophet 600
Alesis Andromeda A6

I really like the tone of these. Ultimately I want an Oberheim OB-XA but don't know if I can justify spending £5,000.

If you have any of the others, how have you found them?

Thanks

Chris
Old 2nd March 2016
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
If that is what you ultimately want, don't spend time on the substitutes because none will make you happy.

Sure, it's a lot of money but not likely to go down soon and when you have it it's a good excuse to trim other stuff which will ultimately improve your focus.

Just be glad that you did not fall in love with a CS80
Old 2nd March 2016
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

The CS80 is lovely but £16,000 in the UK!!!!!
Old 2nd March 2016
  #4
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John Difool's Avatar
 

Must be possible to find a OB-Xa for 2300£ with some patience and luck
Old 2nd March 2016
  #5
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davecjd View Post
I really like the tone of these. Ultimately I want an Oberheim OB-XA but don't know if I can justify spending £5,000.
Isn't the fact that it's ultimately what you want all the justification you need ?
Old 2nd March 2016
  #6
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GeminIAm's Avatar
If an OBXa is what you want (and, let's face it, of course it is) and you are able to save the 5k, do it. You'd be looking at your Polysix thinking "you're alright but you're no OBie".

On a side note, a P600 with Gigli mod seems a great alternative to a Prophet 6 if you have to go vintage. Also, the Prophet 08 has been said to sound not too unlike an Xa.
Old 2nd March 2016
  #7
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I have all of those synths plus other vintage ones. (Including an Xpander which is my Oberheim of choice). Agreed that they sound different than the new offerings and I've went through the trouble of getting them, having them restored and midi-fied and such to integrate them in a modern synth rig. There is new stuff I like, but you want what you want and getting it is the only way to scratch that itch. I got that stuff because that was exactly what I wanted and other newer stuff would always feel like second place or day old donuts. I always recommend that if you know what you want that you should find a way to get it. It took me a long time to acquire the synths I have, lots of working and saving was involved, but sometimes the only way to scratch that itch is to get exactly what you want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davecjd View Post
So having listened to loads of demo's of the new OB6 it doesn't do it for me. I prefer the Prophet 6 but it still hasn't got that vintage tone.

Really like the Matrixbrute too but it's not poly.

Has anyone got any of the following:-

Roland Jupiter 4
Korg Polysix
Sequential Circuits Prophet 600
Alesis Andromeda A6

I really like the tone of these. Ultimately I want an Oberheim OB-XA but don't know if I can justify spending £5,000.

If you have any of the others, how have you found them?

Thanks

Chris
Old 2nd March 2016
  #8
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pounce View Post
if you know what you want you should find a way to get it.
Wisdom.
Old 2nd March 2016
  #9
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I can't wait for this whole retro/vintage fad to be over. It is really so sad and tired and decidedly anti-innovation.

Old 3rd March 2016
  #10
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adydub's Avatar
 

If you want that sort of tone in a modern poly, the only instruments that really hit the mark in every demo I've heard are the Vermona PerFourMer and SE Code/Omega.

Although I suspect you could get great results with plenty of other new analogs too if you took the time to program them to your liking.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #11
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Arglebargle's Avatar
I can't conceive of a situation that cannot be helped by the addition of a Jupiter 4.

The J4 and the Prophet 600 both have cool mods that improve function and can communicate in a modern setup. The Andromeda is great in my book, but the risk of so many custom, irreplaceable parts is too much for me.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #12
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Nothing sad or anti innovation about enjoying the best of old (and new) synths. My rig includes the synths I've enjoyed the most from all the time I've been making music. I think prices for these older synths are crazy nowadays, but I still respect those people who have a preference for tone that comes from vintage kit. You can still make modern music with vintage gear. I believe it's simply an appreciation for quality. Newer isn't necessarily better. The good new gear isn't particularly cheap either. I'd be happy with an Omega 8 too, but it wouldn't save me money or change the music I make.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 

yeah vintage got that vibe.. but then u end up making a gucci mane beat with it and it doesn't matter anymore
Old 3rd March 2016
  #14
I really don't like Mondays. I want to shoot the whole day down
Old 3rd March 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddoggie View Post
I can't wait for this whole retro/vintage fad to be over. It is really so sad and tired and decidedly anti-innovation.

You're gonna be waiting a very, very long time then....
Old 3rd March 2016
  #16
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
Have Jupiter-4 and Polysix.

Jupiter 4 is topps, especially with IO MIDI but you might not like 4 note polyphony. Sometimes it's just easier to put it in unison mode and multitrack it as a huge sounding 4OSC synth. Arpeggiator is quirky and lovely -- just remember that it has no octave setting and the number of octaves played depends on how much keyboard you have left. MIDI clocked sample and hold to the filter (it's own dedicated LFO) is divine.

Tuning can be a problem but there's tuning pots on the back. Remember to allow at least a half an hour for things to warm up and get in tune before adjusting them.

Just remember to factor in the costs of maintainence and the upgrades to make it useful in a modern studio. It's also a heavy SOB and the switches and coloured switchcaps are currently unobtainium.

I hardly touch my Polysix these days...
Old 3rd March 2016
  #17
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OB-Xas are 5gs now? Theres a trashed non working one on eBay now for 3.6k euros and I cried a little bit. Then started laughing.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #18
Gear Addict
 
analogsynth's Avatar
I think the OP has got his apples mixed up with his pears, in love with vintage tone and really liking a Brute??? Lusting for an OB-Xa and not liking the OB-6, but preferring a P6
Old 3rd March 2016
  #19
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Musician's Avatar
Cant dev just make a chip that minimalistically fluctuates modern synth's oscillators' pitch, filter cutoffs, volumes etc. depending on the room's temperature, the synth's orientation on a stand etc. and put it in directly tied to the sound generation engine? Instant vintage if you ask me.
Actually, this is done with circuit and component modeling to the bone, a MUST in every new modern (analog and digital) synthesizer IMHO.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #20
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Soothing Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddoggie View Post
I can't wait for this whole retro/vintage fad to be over. It is really so sad and tired and decidedly anti-innovation.

Your avatar is pretty RETRO/VINTAGE. Shouldn't it be made of 3d characters by now?
Old 3rd March 2016
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Cant dev just make a chip that minimalistically fluctuates modern synth's oscillators' pitch, filter cutoffs, volumes etc. depending on the room's temperature, the synth's orientation on a stand etc. and put it in directly tied to the sound generation engine? Instant vintage if you ask me.
Actually, this is done with circuit and component modeling to the bone, a MUST in every new modern (analog and digital) synthesizer IMHO.
Lots of people have tried but nobody has got it right yet (DSI has the Slop feature, many soft synths claim to do stuff like this too). There's still something about the tone and life of old school analogue designs that hasn't been captured. It's also interesting that modern analogue synths made in the style of old ones are the only ones that capture it (Macbeth, AJH modular etc.) Doesn't mean newer synths don't also have something to offer...
Old 3rd March 2016
  #22
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synthguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
There's still something about the tone and life of old school analogue designs that hasn't been captured.
There are supposed to be some demos which have been done, but I can't find any blind tests of this. Even Google isn't any help. The one thing I have found is someone being tricked into thinking a Prophet~5 he was playing sounded so right in contrast to a P~6. Except that it was a Virus. I thought I might try to call in some favors and do a blind test of my own, but that may take some time.

I'm still not sold on this notion that new synths clearly lack some kind of magical something or other, especially in a piece of music. These kinds of threads seem more like calls for justifications of someone's impression.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #23
Gear Addict
 
analogsynth's Avatar
There's more to it than fluctuations in frequency and general modulation, there are complex saturation/distortion taking place alongside dynamic and frequency emphasis variations, and component tolerances in many vintage synths means it varies from synth to synth even of the same model, thus very unpredictable and difficult to model.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #24
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsynth View Post
There's more to it than fluctuations in frequency and general modulation, there are complex saturation/distortion taking place alongside dynamic and frequency emphasis variations, and component tolerances in many vintage synths means it varies from synth to synth even of the same model, thus very unpredictable and difficult to model.
I remember seeing that the Hammond B3 wannabe organ Numa actually had models of several B3 and C3 units. I mean, not the models of different Hammond types, but like C3 and B3 organs owned by individual persons.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
There are supposed to be some demos which have been done, but I can't find any blind tests of this. Even Google isn't any help. The one thing I have found is someone being tricked into thinking a Prophet~5 he was playing sounded so right in contrast to a P~6. Except that it was a Virus.
I'm sure you'd notice once you cranked the resonance, adjusted the envelopes or started processing the sound with compression or distortion. Certain types of sound will give it away more obviously.

There's also the question of how quick you can get pleasing results. Newer synths tend to require more tweaking (modulation, fx, EQ etc) before they start sounding pleasing, whereas the classic analogs often just have it already.

I'm no purist though. You can make great records with new synths and software and there are times when a soft synth is the best sound for the job.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #26
ultimate mojo machine is a P5 rev 2 IMO. put that on the list too :D
Old 3rd March 2016
  #27
Gear Maniac
I had a P600 for a while but got a P6 desktop instead. The P6 can do so much more than the P600 (even with the gigli mod). If the extra cost isn't an issue I can't understand why anyone would prefer the P600 in 2016.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davecjd View Post
So having listened to loads of demo's of the new OB6 it doesn't do it for me. I prefer the Prophet 6 but it still hasn't got that vintage tone.

Really like the Matrixbrute too but it's not poly.

Has anyone got any of the following:-

Roland Jupiter 4
Korg Polysix
Sequential Circuits Prophet 600
Alesis Andromeda A6

I really like the tone of these. Ultimately I want an Oberheim OB-XA but don't know if I can justify spending £5,000.

If you have any of the others, how have you found them?

Thanks

Chris
To my ears, Prophet 600 with the gligli mod is one of the ultimate polysynths, and for the money simply cannot be beat. With the mod it is nearly a Prophet 5, the P5 3.3 is only a tiny bit more fuzzy and old sounding, maybe 15% more, but the P600 sounds 90% as good (a little bit clearer sounding perhaps), and while lacking the ultra snappy hardware envelopes, is MUCH more flexible at a third the price. With the mod it's one of the best polysynths made. The mod is REALLY easy to install, even if you don't know how to do any electronic work, and many p600s already have it done to them.

A close second in terms of sound and cheaper still is the Chroma Polaris. This has a few odd steppings on some parameters in certain ranges, but properly programmed this becomes a strength rather than a weakness and allows you to get some really unique tones (and you can work around this in many other ranges). And it's even cheaper than the 600. Together they make an amazing combo.

The Polysix is only one oscillator per voice, and those oscillators are rather thin and brittle, so unless you like the way it's chorus can make string-synth type sounds, it's not great at being an analog polysynth by itself. And for that price you can get either a Prophet 600 or a Chroma Polaris.

The Ob-xa sounds in many ways similar to the Prophet 600 and Chroma Polaris, as they share the same basic chipset, though these are wired diff in each. The Ob-xa and the Chroma Polaris have a certain largeness in their bottom end which makes it quite powerful sounding. The Ob-xa does sound wider in the mix (hard to describe subjective impressions), and that's not taking into account the stereo panning of the voices. The Ob-xa is rather limited in the options for programming it compared to the Prophet 600 and the Chroma Polaris, but most desire it for its sound. To be honest, I prefer the sound of the Prophet 600 and the Chroma Polaris over the Ob-xa, though that's preference. What's nice is that for the money you'd spend on an Ob-xa you could get BOTH a Chroma Polaris and Prophet 600. Some of what the Ob-xa is known for you can really get on the P600 with the mod (like HUGE unison sound with detune), though the P600 doesn't have that large bottom end and sense of hugeness. To my ears the Ob-xa's 12db filter doesn't cut into the oscillators enough. But ultimately, if that's the sound you want, it's worth it to at least play one in person before you devote that much cash to it. Ultimately my preference for the P600 is a matter of taste, because there's no question it's a fine synth, though compared to the others, pricey.

You didn't mention the Roland MKS-80. I'm not a huge fan of the Roland filter, though there are some things it can do that the others can't. Like the Oberheim Xpander, it has a very precise sound, not quite as warm as some of the older analog polys, but a HUGE bass response. It's also got lot of modulation options, but obviously no knobs, though software editors help. Still, lack of interface is annoying.

You also didn't mention the Oberheim Xpander. Costs about 3/4 of the Ob-xa. Missing some of the hugeness of the Ob-xa, but infinitely more flexible than not only the Ob-xa, but just about any other polysynth, so many filter types and modulation options. Sounds a little bit more modern, precise, and in some ways colder than some of the others, closer to the MKS-80 than P600 in sound.

I played the A6 and felt it had massive flexibility but like the Prophet 6 was lacking in the tone dept. Where the Prophet 6 was too brittle and bright, the A6 was dull and missing something in the high end. Neither sounds like real analog to me. Something you'd have to play in person to know.

All the synths above I've played in person, so hopefully that helps some! Of course, a lot of its subjective, but hey, that's my impression at least.
Old 3rd March 2016
  #29
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
Your avatar is pretty RETRO/VINTAGE. Shouldn't it be made of 3d characters by now?
LOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!

Old 3rd March 2016
  #30
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payt's Avatar
 

Roland Jupiter 4
Korg Polysix
Sequential Circuits Prophet 600
Alesis Andromeda A6

Out of those 4, the latter 3 are ticking timebombs. I guess the Jup4 would be the best investment. The Korg polysix has issues with voices conking out, the P600 really needs the update or else it's envelopes are sluggish, and the A6 has irreplacable components that aren't the best quality either (the pots, especially).

In fact the A6 I used to have had mostly jumpy pots. Sure, twisting them for a bit resolved that for the most part, for about a day, but it was kindof unreliable. On mine some of those pots caused presets to suddenly change some parameters, such as the coarse pitch in the middle of playing something. Not very handy.

So I'm fine with modern analog. I can make them sound vintage if I want to, and they also offer modern features (such as MIDI, sync of sequencers, LFO's, delays, you name it), while they don't feel like they're on the verge of falling apart, and in need of continuous TLC to keep them running.
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