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Can you help me replicate these famous sounds on my Sub 37?
Old 6th January 2016
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Can you help me replicate these famous sounds on my Sub 37?

Hey!

I'm new to my Sub 37, and while it's fun twisting knobs and trying to figure out the sounds I want, I'm having trouble getting close to what I want.

Would anyone like to give input on how some of these famous sounds are made?
If you have time, as many details into the parameters would be GREATLY appreciated!

(or let me know if the sub 37 "can't" do any of these?)

boogie on reggae woman, stevie wonder

https://youtu.be/Tpt585iJjCk?t=35s

there's a recipe at the end, but my sub 37 doesn't have some of those parameters...


shut up and dance solo, walk the moon

https://youtu.be/mjdIJ5ZSpSk?t=1m47s
LOVE this lead!!!


snarky puppy, Lingus lead solos
https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc?t=4m57s

and then at 6:18 he changes something... what is it?
https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc?t=6m18s

and then finally, at 8:26 he tears it up w/ this sweet lead
https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc?t=8m26s


Snarky Puppy, Kite
Quick little flute type sound
https://youtu.be/eFUOZ5PI3m8?list=PL...3oVDgl&t=2m25s

and a few random sounds i found...

https://youtu.be/aDXESToG4p8?t=14m58s


https://youtu.be/iOoFkWWdZAo?t=2m49s

https://youtu.be/aDXESToG4p8?t=17m4s


Thanks for any input!
Old 6th January 2016
  #2
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Doing all of the examples is a bit much, but I'll give you my rough and ready approximation of the "boogie on reggae woman, stevie wonder" sound in the video above.

This is a very basic and ubiquitous sound, and as such a good choice for an exercise. To make this, start with an init patch, then set the oscillators, mixer, filter and envelopes as shown (I've added markers set to zero to the the mod section amount knobs, just to indicate that none of them are in use).

The meat of the sound in the video is the two sawtooth oscillators tuned an octave apart, with hard sync on to keep them tight and avoid beating. And there's the filter envelope which makes the filter sweep with a "piaow" -like sound.

The amplitude envelope is similar to the filter envelope to make a punchy, but not too hard sound. The decay and release times are a little longer, so that it's the filter decay and release that "closes" the sound.

You can switch the "MULTI TRIG" buttons off to play legato. For legato playing you'll want to tweak the sustain level of both envelopes to hit your sweet spot. Another thing to try is to switch on "KB RESET" in the oscillator section to get more consistent punchiness at the start of the sound. The oscillator levels in the mixer can be played around with. It might also be an idea to add some EQ, giving the bass a little boost.

Note that I spent only 5 minutes on that sound, so it's not at all as close as you can get (I had to run back and forth between the PC with YouTube and the synth, so I could not AB the sounds) - I'll leave it to you to tweak it to taste

Edit to add: I think nailing these snappy fast played kinds of sounds are very dependent on playing style, that is to say, the exact envelope times and such may have to be tweaked to "sound the same" if the playing differs. In this case, I can't play like the guy in the video, so adjust anything to suit your playing style and timing to get the dynamics where you want it. They can be subtle things, but therein lies making the instrument your own, IYSWIM - so tweak away!

(Click image for full size)
Old 6th January 2016
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
Doing all of the examples is a bit much, but I'll give you my rough and ready approximation of the "boogie on reggae woman, stevie wonder" sound in the video above.

This is a very basic and ubiquitous sound, and as such a good choice for an exercise. To make this, start with an init patch, then set the oscillators, mixer, filter and envelopes as shown (I've added markers set to zero to the the mod section amount knobs, just to indicate that none of them are in use).

The meat of the sound in the video is the two sawtooth oscillators tuned an octave apart, with hard sync on to keep them tight and avoid beating. And there's the filter envelope which makes the filter sweep with a "piaow" -like sound.

The amplitude envelope is similar to the filter envelope to make a punchy, but not too hard sound. The decay and release times are a little longer, so that it's the filter decay and release that "closes" the sound.

You can switch the "MULTI TRIG" buttons off to play legato. For legato playing you'll want to tweak the sustain level of both envelopes to hit your sweet spot. Another thing to try is to switch on "KB RESET" in the oscillator section to get more consistent punchiness at the start of the sound. The oscillator levels in the mixer can be played around with. It might also be an idea to add some EQ, giving the bass a little boost.

Note that I spent only 5 minutes on that sound, so it's not at all as close as you can get (I had to run back and forth between the PC with YouTube and the synth, so I could not AB the sounds) - I'll leave it to you to tweak it to taste

Edit to add: I think nailing these snappy fast played kinds of sounds are very dependent on playing style, that is to say, the exact envelope times and such may have to be tweaked to "sound the same" if the playing differs. In this case, I can't play like the guy in the video, so adjust anything to suit your playing style and timing to get the dynamics where you want it. They can be subtle things, but therein lies making the instrument your own, IYSWIM - so tweak away!

(Click image for full size)
Whoa, that diagram is cool! I can't wait to try it out!

Yeah, i didn't want one person to do them all, just asking for help from whoever was able to give it. I am most interested in that one, the shut up and dance leads, and maybe the Snarky Puppy softer one. The lead he plays from Lingus I might be able to do... We will see ha-ha. I just didn't know if some of those sounds were possible. Maybe it's a different emulated filter, etc.

Can the Moog potentially make every sound I want
To emulate, just slightly more Moog style?
Old 6th January 2016
  #4
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kpatz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
snarky puppy, Lingus lead solos
https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc?t=4m57s

and then at 6:18 he changes something... what is it?
https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc?t=6m18s
Sounds like a single sawtooth or pulse wave (narrower pulse, not 50%). He starts with the filter closed down to soften the sound, then at 6:18 he opens it up (raises the cutoff) to make it brighter.
Quote:
and then finally, at 8:26 he tears it up w/ this sweet lead
https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc?t=8m26s
2 sawtooths detuned. Classic and simple patch.

The Sub37 should have no trouble creating either of these. There may be something like them in the presets already.
Old 6th January 2016
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatz View Post
Sounds like a single sawtooth or pulse wave (narrower pulse, not 50%). He starts with the filter closed down to soften the sound, then at 6:18 he opens it up (raises the cutoff) to make it brighter.2 sawtooths detuned. Classic and simple patch.
The man! I will try this out tonight, I can't wait! So I would set one for like +1 and other one -1? Is that in the mod section? Or the frequency?
Old 6th January 2016
  #6
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
...the shut up and dance leads...
See further down....

Quote:
Can the Moog potentially make every sound I want
To emulate, just slightly more Moog style?
For these pretty straight forward classic subtractive synth sounds, played monphonically, pretty much yes - your Sub should be able to get the job done well enough in most cases, in a Moog'ish style. There will be exceptions, YMMV and so on.

So, Shut Up and Dance... I don't know the song, I can't hear the basic synth sound too clearly in t he mix, there are FX there etc.. However, since I have this nifty template for graphic patches and synths are fun(!), I made a simple lead sound not completely unlike the one in the video at 1:47 and a bit onwards (again, I'm running back and forth, so I can't do a direct comparison, and I'm even writing down the knob settings on a piece of paper that I bring back here to the PC...).

Let's start with the init patch. This example uses a saw and a square oscillator, slightly detuned with the BEAT FREQ knob to create some movement. The filter is set up with a tiny bit of sweep to add a little 'something'. The MULTI DRIVE is cranked up a bit to add some power.

The vibrato is made by using the MOD 1 section, just a tiny amount of PITCH AMT for oscillator 1 and 2, using a triangle wave at a suitable frequency. By default the init patch is set up so that the MOD1 modulation is controlled by the mod wheel - very convenient since that's just what we want. So when playing, control the vibrato with the mod wheel from zero to as much as you like, as they do in the song.

The sound also appears to use some portamento, so we'll activate the GLIDE section for that.

To add some playing dynamics to the sound, we can dial in some velocity sensitivity to the amplifier and/or filter envelopes: If you press the button to activate KNOB SHIFT in the envelope section so that it starts blinking (indicated by the green circle), there is another "page" of envelope parameters available. When this page is active you can adjust VEL AMT with the SUSTAIN knob to add in velocity sensitivity - these setting are indicated by the green lines. The harder you hit the keys the more the envelopes will now take effect, following your playing dynamics.

Remember that the actual synth in the song is processed and mixed in ways that affects it's overall sound quite a bit, so in comparison a 'naked' synth will never sound the same. Perhaps you have some effects processors you can try out on the synth(?)

Right, now you take over!

(click image for full size)
Old 7th January 2016
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
See further down....


For these pretty straight forward classic subtractive synth sounds, played monphonically, pretty much yes - your Sub should be able to get the job done well enough in most cases, in a Moog'ish style. There will be exceptions, YMMV and so on.

So, Shut Up and Dance... I don't know the song, I can't hear the basic synth sound too clearly in t he mix, there are FX there etc.. However, since I have this nifty template for graphic patches and synths are fun(!), I made a simple lead sound not completely unlike the one in the video at 1:47 and a bit onwards (again, I'm running back and forth, so I can't do a direct comparison, and I'm even writing down the knob settings on a piece of paper that I bring back here to the PC...).

Let's start with the init patch. This example uses a saw and a square oscillator, slightly detuned with the BEAT FREQ knob to create some movement. The filter is set up with a tiny bit of sweep to add a little 'something'. The MULTI DRIVE is cranked up a bit to add some power.

The vibrato is made by using the MOD 1 section, just a tiny amount of PITCH AMT for oscillator 1 and 2, using a triangle wave at a suitable frequency. By default the init patch is set up so that the MOD1 modulation is controlled by the mod wheel - very convenient since that's just what we want. So when playing, control the vibrato with the mod wheel from zero to as much as you like, as they do in the song.

The sound also appears to use some portamento, so we'll activate the GLIDE section for that.

To add some playing dynamics to the sound, we can dial in some velocity sensitivity to the amplifier and/or filter envelopes: If you press the button to activate KNOB SHIFT in the envelope section so that it starts blinking (indicated by the green circle), there is another "page" of envelope parameters available. When this page is active you can adjust VEL AMT with the SUSTAIN knob to add in velocity sensitivity - these setting are indicated by the green lines. The harder you hit the keys the more the envelopes will now take effect, following your playing dynamics.

Remember that the actual synth in the song is processed and mixed in ways that affects it's overall sound quite a bit, so in comparison a 'naked' synth will never sound the same. Perhaps you have some effects processors you can try out on the synth(?)

Right, now you take over!

(click image for full size)


DUDE. YOU ROCK.

I just tried all three sounds I got tips for, thank you! The boogie on reggae woman sounds great! I am practicing to get the staccato touch. Deceptively hard! Very fun to practice that. Then, the Shut Up sound, wow, so much fun!!! I love the mod wheel vibrato! So cool!

Can I somehow incorporate aftertouch with this?

Thanks again!
Old 7th January 2016
  #8
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
...
The boogie on reggae woman sounds great! I am practicing to get the staccato touch. Deceptively hard! Very fun to practice that.
Yes, I also fumbled when tying to play the staccato stuff. That's actually a prime example of what I wrote above, about how a sound may have to be tweaked to your own playing style to sound the best. For fine and comfortable control of that sound when playing the staccato notes, the envelope attack and decay times in particular are quite critical, so tweak until you hit the spot.

Quote:
Can I somehow incorporate aftertouch with this?
That can be done. Since I already have it controlling filter frequency and multidrive so that when adding pressure the sound becomes brighter and gets a littler overdrive, let's use that as a worked example.

Quote:
Thanks again!
You're welcome! I'm always happy to help

Now the sound. This task takes us into a little bit more advanced territory, but fear not, it all makes sense. We'll use the MOD 2 section for this. Continuing on from the reggae woman sound:

Since we want to control the filter frequency and the multidrive directly with aftertouch, we'll not be using the LFO in the mod section. Instead set the MOD 2 SOURCE switch to F.EG / PGM - this means we'll be using a programmable source (filter envelope generator is the default, hence the F.EG / PGM label). The source we want for this is a constant level. To set up that we need to use the MOD 2 controllers menu:

- press the CONTROLLERS button in the MOD 2 section, this brings up the MOD 2 menu
- select AFTERTOUCH and set it to 100%
- select MOD 2 EDIT and press CURSOR to go into the sub menu for selecting source and destination
- select PGM SRC and and set it to CONST ON
- select PGM DST and set it to FILT DRV (Note: assigning a mod destination can be done much easier: hold the MOD 2 DEST button down while turning the MULTIDRIVE knob, and the assignment is automatically made - this works for all the knobs and buttons)

That's the menu diving done.

If you used the quick method of assigning a programmable MOD destination, the LED next to EG TIME / PGM should be lit. If you selected destination 'manually' in the menu, you must repeatedly press the MOD 2 DEST button until the LED next to EG TIME / PGM lights up (the default programmable destination is the envelope times, hence the label EG TIME / PGM).

Note that on the the panel graphic below, FILTER AMT is set to 2 and the MOD 2 AMT, which now controls MULTIDRIVE, is set to 3.5. This gives a reasonable range of modulation as a starting point.

Even when we use the programmable destination, the mod sections can simultaneously affect the oscillators and filters as well, using the dedicated separate knobs PITCH AMT and FILTER AMT. This is how we get MOD 2 to control both the filter CUTOFF and MULTIDRIVE.

(click image for full size)
Old 7th January 2016
  #9
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

OK, here's a flute sound for good measure. It's not quite like the one in the Snarky Puppy video, but more reminiscent of an accoustic flute. I spent a little more time on this one, and I'm not entirely unhappy with the result, but it's still a quickly made patch so there's room for refinement. As it happens, I played the flute for many years in my youth, so this is good fun for me

I referenced the Sound on Sound article Synthesizing Simple Flutes to get a refresher of the spectrum of a recorder. The rest of this patch is winging it.

To get a resonable flute/recorder spectrum, I used a combination of square wave oscillator (which has only odd harmonics) and a saw wave oscillator (which has both odd and even harmonics). The saw is at a quite low level relative to the square, since it's job is only to fill out a little bit of even harmonics between the stronger odd harmonics of the square. The two oscillators are hard synced since we don't want any beating/chorusing effect in a flute patch.

An important part of a flute sound is the chiff in the attack. To get this I used the MOD 2 section to make a noise puff and filter opening. For this, the filter envelope is used as the source, and the destination is the noise level. Now the FILTER AMT can be used to set the brightness of the chiff and MOD 2 sets the noise level of the chiff. I've also added in some aftertouch on MOD 2 to get the effect of blowing a little harder when you put pressure on the keys (the filter opens and the noise level increases). The filter envelope has a little bit of sustain dialled in - this is to allow the aftertouch to work, and it also gives a very faint breath noise in the sustained sound. Fine timing of the chiff is adjusted by the filter envelope attack and decay knobs.

Another important flute characteristic is the periodic modulation by varying breath intensity that players often use. The MOD 1 section is used for this. A triangle wave from the LFO modulates the filter cutoff and the oscillator 2 level, to vary the brightness and harmonic content. The mod wheel controls this effect from zero to a good bit.

The patch uses keyboard tracking on the envelopes to get faster attacks and chiffs on the higher notes. Velocity is also used to give some playing dynamics

Here are the menu settings used for MOD 1 and MOD 2:

- press CONTROLLERS in the MOD 1 section to bring up the menu
- select MODWHEEL and set it to 100%
- select MOD 1 EDIT and press CURSOR to go into the sub menu
- select PGM DST and set it to OSC2 LEV (or hold the MOD 2 DEST button down while turning the OSC 2 knob in the mixer section)

- press CONTROLLERS in the MOD 2 section to bring up the menu
- select AFTERTOUCH and set it to 50% (lower value for more chiff and less atertouch, and vice versa)

This patch is slightly involved for a Sub 37 as it relies on the interaction of several parameters and uses many features of the synth. This is the way things go with synths though, once you start tweaking seriously. To 'decode' it you can try to swith off all the sources in the mixer (osc 1, osc 2 and noise), then audition them one at a time and in different combinations to hear what they do. Try modwheel, velocity and aftertouch as you do this to hear how the dynamics work.

In particular, the interaction between MOD 2 aftertouch (in the menu), filter amount, mod 2 amount and the filter envelope settings means that balancing the chiff, the sustained breath noise and the aftertouch "blowing harder" effect need juggling of a few knobs to balance.

Here's a summary of the most central controls that can be used in performance or to make different versions of the patch:
- filter cutoff for overall brightness
- filter envelope attack and decay for the chiff timing
- the MOD 2 section's FILTER AMT and MOD 2 AMT for chiff brightness and noise content
- amp and filter envelope attack, velocity and keyboard tracking for adjusting dynamics along the keyboard range
- osc 1 and 2 mixer levels
- mod wheel, velocity and pressure for performance

Yet again you'll have to tweak for your tastes, playing style, and musical context. Yeah... I've said that enough times by now

Hopefully I did nothing too wrong in the patch graphic and description above, so that you may get a useable flute sound. If it doesn't seem right at your end, let me know.

(click image for full size)
Old 7th January 2016
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Thank you again! This is great. I am going to try this hopefully tonight! I am going to try and adapt the aftertouch principles to the leads I got from Shut Up and Dance!

Thank you again! Acoustic floor would be great, I could definitely use this in church.
Old 8th January 2016
  #11
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

It's threads like these that reaffirm my faith in Gearslutz... Nice one.
Old 8th January 2016
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
OK, here's a flute sound for good measure. It's not quite like the one in the Snarky Puppy video, but more reminiscent of an accoustic flute. I spent a little more time on this one, and I'm not entirely unhappy with the result, but it's still a quickly made patch so there's room for refinement. As it happens, I played the flute for many years in my youth, so this is good fun for me

I referenced the Sound on Sound article Synthesizing Simple Flutes to get a refresher of the spectrum of a recorder. The rest of this patch is winging it.

To get a resonable flute/recorder spectrum, I used a combination of square wave oscillator (which has only odd harmonics) and a saw wave oscillator (which has both odd and even harmonics). The saw is at a quite low level relative to the square, since it's job is only to fill out a little bit of even harmonics between the stronger odd harmonics of the square. The two oscillators are hard synced since we don't want any beating/chorusing effect in a flute patch.

An important part of a flute sound is the chiff in the attack. To get this I used the MOD 2 section to make a noise puff and filter opening. For this, the filter envelope is used as the source, and the destination is the noise level. Now the FILTER AMT can be used to set the brightness of the chiff and MOD 2 sets the noise level of the chiff. I've also added in some aftertouch on MOD 2 to get the effect of blowing a little harder when you put pressure on the keys (the filter opens and the noise level increases). The filter envelope has a little bit of sustain dialled in - this is to allow the aftertouch to work, and it also gives a very faint breath noise in the sustained sound. Fine timing of the chiff is adjusted by the filter envelope attack and decay knobs.

Another important flute characteristic is the periodic modulation by varying breath intensity that players often use. The MOD 1 section is used for this. A triangle wave from the LFO modulates the filter cutoff and the oscillator 2 level, to vary the brightness and harmonic content. The mod wheel controls this effect from zero to a good bit.

The patch uses keyboard tracking on the envelopes to get faster attacks and chiffs on the higher notes. Velocity is also used to give some playing dynamics

Here are the menu settings used for MOD 1 and MOD 2:

- press CONTROLLERS in the MOD 1 section to bring up the menu
- select MODWHEEL and set it to 100%
- select MOD 1 EDIT and press CURSOR to go into the sub menu
- select PGM DST and set it to OSC2 LEV (or hold the MOD 2 DEST button down while turning the OSC 2 knob in the mixer section)

- press CONTROLLERS in the MOD 2 section to bring up the menu
- select AFTERTOUCH and set it to 50% (lower value for more chiff and less atertouch, and vice versa)

This patch is slightly involved for a Sub 37 as it relies on the interaction of several parameters and uses many features of the synth. This is the way things go with synths though, once you start tweaking seriously. To 'decode' it you can try to swith off all the sources in the mixer (osc 1, osc 2 and noise), then audition them one at a time and in different combinations to hear what they do. Try modwheel, velocity and aftertouch as you do this to hear how the dynamics work.

In particular, the interaction between MOD 2 aftertouch (in the menu), filter amount, mod 2 amount and the filter envelope settings means that balancing the chiff, the sustained breath noise and the aftertouch "blowing harder" effect need juggling of a few knobs to balance.

Here's a summary of the most central controls that can be used in performance or to make different versions of the patch:
- filter cutoff for overall brightness
- filter envelope attack and decay for the chiff timing
- the MOD 2 section's FILTER AMT and MOD 2 AMT for chiff brightness and noise content
- amp and filter envelope attack, velocity and keyboard tracking for adjusting dynamics along the keyboard range
- osc 1 and 2 mixer levels
- mod wheel, velocity and pressure for performance

Yet again you'll have to tweak for your tastes, playing style, and musical context. Yeah... I've said that enough times by now

Hopefully I did nothing too wrong in the patch graphic and description above, so that you may get a useable flute sound. If it doesn't seem right at your end, let me know.

(click image for full size)
Hey, awesome flute! I'm not quite getting the aftertouch going, though. I don't hear much of a change when pressing harder, even at 100%...
Old 8th January 2016
  #13
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
Hey, awesome flute! I'm not quite getting the aftertouch going, though. I don't hear much of a change when pressing harder, even at 100%...
Yeah, the aftertouch is not very prominent in this patch. It uses the MOD 2 section to provide both the chiff and the aftertouch, and that is stretching things a bit. I.e. there's a tradeoff between the two.

If you want a more expressive aftertouch try playing with this
- increase FILTER AMT and/or MOD 2 AMT in the mod MOD 2 section
- increase AFTERTOUCH in the MOD 2 menu

The parameters above (and possibly some others) need careful tweaking to find the right balance. These things are often what takes a lot of time in making synth patches. There's sort of an 80/20 rule at work - you end up spending 80% of the time tweaking 20% of the patch

Whatever you do, the aftertouch will not be very dramatic in this patch. You may lose a little chiff, or get an altered chiff character, if you try to increase it much. Of course this is just one (quick) take on a flute, and another variety might emphasize other aspects. We also sometimes hit the limits of our synths and have to be creative in how we use what's there to the best effect.
Old 8th January 2016
  #14
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dswo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
An important part of a flute sound is the chiff in the attack. To get this I used the MOD 2 section to make a noise puff and filter opening. For this, the filter envelope is used as the source, and the destination is the noise level. Now the FILTER AMT can be used to set the brightness of the chiff and MOD 2 sets the noise level of the chiff. I've also added in some aftertouch on MOD 2 to get the effect of blowing a little harder when you put pressure on the keys (the filter opens and the noise level increases). The filter envelope has a little bit of sustain dialled in - this is to allow the aftertouch to work, and it also gives a very faint breath noise in the sustained sound. Fine timing of the chiff is adjusted by the filter envelope attack and decay knobs.
Some good examples here of things the Sub 37 can do that the Sub Phatty can't.
Old 10th January 2016
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Question! Can I use the arpeggiator with a sound that has a slow attack, long sustain, and kinda get a chords and pads?

Hold down a GBD, and then it cycles through and it attacks the newest note before the first note releases? Will it sound like a sustained chord?
Old 11th January 2016
  #16
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kpatz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
Question! Can I use the arpeggiator with a sound that has a slow attack, long sustain, and kinda get a chords and pads?

Hold down a GBD, and then it cycles through and it attacks the newest note before the first note releases? Will it sound like a sustained chord?
Not directly, since the Sub 37 only has one voice. The 2nd note will cut off the 1st.

Now you could do it with an external reverb, give it a long reverb time and then play your arpeggio into it.

A better way is to record multiple tracks with the Sub37 or use a polyphonic synth or softsynth.
Old 11th January 2016
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatz View Post
Not directly, since the Sub 37 only has one voice. The 2nd note will cut off the 1st.

Now you could do it with an external reverb, give it a long reverb time and then play your arpeggio into it.

A better way is to record multiple tracks with the Sub37 or use a polyphonic synth or softsynth.
thanks, i thought i could fool the sub 37! haha.

No problem, honestly, 2 notes is a lot compared to one note. I'm having a blast w/ duo mode. I can play bass lines and solo on top, pretty much every bach 2 part invention, etc.
Old 11th January 2016
  #18
Gear Nut
 

OKAY, question. I'm trying to use the sound I found on this site, tricks - Amplitude Problem - Juan Irming - producer, composer, sound designer, keyboardist, electronic music, synthwave, chiptune, soundtracks, hip hop, video game music, jingles, sound fx, indie games


THe Electric Guitar patch.

I can't figure out 2 things...

1. I routed the after touch to the mod busses, so when I use aftertouch I get the LFO vibrato. (i can't believe I understood the sentence i just wrote!)
HOWEVER... is there a way to NOT have the LFO mod on during a normal sound? to ONLY have it go through aftertouch? (and the same could be said about the mod wheel.)

2. I can't figure out how to get 2 sounds using DUO mode. I have it on, but i can't hear both voices. Is it bEcause of the above problem?, I have Hard Sync On, between the 2 oscillators.

3. I don't quite understand the Mod Controller menu...
Controllers Menu - Moog Sub 37 User Manual [Page 50]

I found this, but I don't understand the Program Source and Program Destination in the Mod Edit...
I thought the source was the mod bus? and ... my brain hurts.

and what are the 6 colored lights w/ DEST button in the middle?

Okay, thank you, remember... talk to me like i'm 5 years old, haha.
Old 11th January 2016
  #19
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
...
I can't figure out 2 things...

1. I routed the after touch to the mod busses, so when I use aftertouch I get the LFO vibrato. (i can't believe I understood the sentence i just wrote!)
HOWEVER... is there a way to NOT have the LFO mod on during a normal sound? to ONLY have it go through aftertouch? (and the same could be said about the mod wheel.)
Yes. If you use 100% for any or all of MOD WHEEL, VELOCITY and AFTERTOUCH, there will be no modulation by default, and you will have to use the controllers that you have set up (I.e. mod wheel, velocity or aftertouch).

If you set e.g. MOD WHEEL to 50%, then half the modulation will be there by default, and the remaining 50% will be applied as you move the mod wheel. If you set MOD WHEEL to 0%, all the modulation will be there by default and moving the mod wheel will have no effect. In other words, the percentage is used to balance the default modulation amount vs the amount introduced by using the controllers.

BTW, if you use negative percentages, using the corresponding controller will reduce the modulation instead. So if you have MOD WHEEL set to -100%, the full modulation will be there by default, and when the mod wheel is moved to its max position there will be no modulation.

One things about the those three controllers, is that they are "chained". This means that if you e.g. set both MOD WHEEL and AFTERTOUCH to 100%, the mod wheel or aftertouch alone will not have any effect, and you must use both to allow the modulation to "get through". At lower percentages you can balance this effect, e.g. if both are at 50%, you will get some modulation by default and both the mod wheel and aftertouch will contribute independently and together, being strongest when both controllers are at max (mod wheel in upper position and full pressure in the keys).

I hope that makes sense. I recommend playing around with this to learn it in detail, starting from an init patch and using the MOD 1 section. Crank up PITCH AMT a good bit and use a square wave for the LFO so that it's easy to hear the modulation. Begin with all controllers at 0%, then try each of them separately at 50% and 100%. Finally try combinations of more than one of the controllers.

Quote:
2. I can't figure out how to get 2 sounds using DUO mode. I have it on, but i can't hear both voices. Is it bEcause of the above problem?, I have Hard Sync On, between the 2 oscillators.
When HARD SYNC is on the two oscillators are no longer playing entirely separate pitches, but instead have the phases synchronised (ref. user manual p. 26). If you switch off HARD SYNC you can play the two oscillators with separate pitches. Of course that means you don't get the effect of the HARD SYNC. With both HARD SYNC and DUO MODE on, you get a different effect, where the timbre varies with the interval between the two keys you play. So for normal duophonic playing you want HARD SYNC off.

Quote:
3. I don't quite understand the Mod Controller menu...
Controllers Menu - Moog Sub 37 User Manual [Page 50]

I found this, but I don't understand the Program Source and Program Destination in the Mod Edit...
I thought the source was the mod bus? and ... my brain hurts.

and what are the 6 colored lights w/ DEST button in the middle?
That's 3 things! OK, lets go through the rest

The MOD sections can each be viewed as a "box" with one input and one output, called the source and the destination.

The source is either an LFO waveform, or when the LFO switch is in the F.EG / PGM position, the source is what you set MOD SRC to in the menu.

Correspondingly, the destination is what the six LEDs by the DEST button indicate. If the DEST button is pressed multiple times the destination will change as indicated by the LEDs. Here we also have a special position, like for the LFO switch, named EG TIME / PGM. That's the programmable destination as set in the MOD DST in the menu

The other destinations that have a LED each are there for your convenience, so that the most often used ones does not require setting MOD DST in the menu.

(Remember that there is a shortcut to set up a programmable destination so that you don't actually have to go into the menu to do it: hold the DEST button down while turning the knob or pressing the switch you want as your destination. The LEDs will change to EG TIME / PGM. As explained in one of my earlier postings, the EG TIME / PGM label means that the default programmable destination, as set up in the init patch, is the envelope generator times, hence the EG TIMES part of that label)

Last edited by DrJustice; 12th January 2016 at 11:12 AM.. Reason: Correction
Old 11th January 2016
  #20
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kpatz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
2. I can't figure out how to get 2 sounds using DUO mode. I have it on, but i can't hear both voices. Is it bEcause of the above problem?, I have Hard Sync On, between the 2 oscillators.
Hard sync and duo mode are mutually exclusive. For Duo mode to work both oscillators have to be free running since each oscillator may be playing a different note. They can't do that when synced.
Old 11th January 2016
  #21
Gear Nut
 

[QUOTE=DrJustice;11605748]Yes. If you use 100% for any or all of MOD WHEEL, VELOCITY and AFTERTOUCH, there will be no modulation by default, and you will have to use the controllers that you have set up (I.e. mod wheel, velocity or aftertouch).

If you set e.g. MOD WHEEL to 50%, then half the modulation will be there by default, and the remaining 50% will be applied as you move the mod wheel. If you set MOD WHEEL to 0%, all the modulation will be there by default and moving the mod wheel will have no effect. In other words, the percentage is used to balance the default modulation amount vs the amount introduced by using the controllers.

BTW, if you use negative percentages, using the corresponding controller will reduce the modulation instead. So if you have MOD WHEEL set to -100%, the full modulation will be there by default, and when the mod wheel is moved to its max position there will be no modulation.

One things about the those three controllers that I only recently discovered myself, is that they are "chained", so that the later ones in the chain gets the highest priorioty. This means that if you e.g. set both MOD WHEEL and AFTERTOUCH to 100% (or some lower percentages...), the mod wheel alone will not have any effect, and you must press down on the keys so that the aftertouch allows the mod wheel to "get through". This is the order of the chain and the priority of each controller:

MOD WHEEL => first in the chain: works on its own or is let through by the next controllesr in the chgain if they're set to nore than 0%
VELOCITY => second in the chain: lets through mod wheel if set to more than 0%
AFTERTOUCH => third in the chain: lets through velocity and mod wheel if set to more than 0%

I hope that makes sense. I recommend playing around with this to learn it in detail, starting from an init patch and using the MOD 1 section. Crank up PITCH AMT a good bit and use a square wave for the LFO so that it's easy to hear the modulation. Begin with all controllers at 0%, then try each of them separately at 50% and 100%. Finally try combinations of more than one of the controllers.

(The manual does not describe this "chaining". Hey Moog - this needs mentioning in the manual!)


When HARD SYNC is on the two oscillators are no longer playing entirely separate pitches, but instead have the phases synchronised (ref. user manual p. 26). If you switch off HARD SYNC you can play the two oscillators with separate pitches. Of course that means you don't get the effect of the HARD SYNC. With both HARD SYNC and DUO MODE on, you get a different effect, where the timbre varies with the interval between the two keys you play. So for normal duophonic playing you want HARD SYNC off.


That's 3 things! OK, lets go through the rest

The MOD sections can each be viewed as a "box" with one input and one output, called the source and the destination.

The source is either an LFO waveform, or when the LFO switch is in the F.EG / PGM position, the source is what you set MOD SRC to in the menu.

Correspondingly, the destination is what the six LEDs by the DEST button indicate. If the DEST button is pressed multiple times the destination will change as indicated by the LEDs. Here we also have a special position, like for the LFO switch, named EG TIME / PGM. That's the programmable destination as set in the MOD DST in the menu

The other destinations that have a LED each are there for your convenience, so that the most often used ones does not require setting MOD DST in the menu.

(Remember that there is a shortcut to set up a programmable destination so that you don't actually have to go into the menu to do it: hold the DEST button down while turning the knob or pressing the switch you want as your destination. The LEDs will change to EG TIME / PGM. As explained in one of my earlier postings, the EG TIME / PGM label means that the default programmable destination, as set up in the init patch, is the envelope generator times, hence the EG TIMES part of that label)[/QUOrate
OK, still not understanding, I think I'm hearing an lfo sneaking through, but turning the rate does nothing... Let me try to upload a video.
Old 12th January 2016
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
:

Since we want to control the filter frequency and the multidrive directly with aftertouch, we'll not be using the LFO in the mod section. Instead set the MOD 2 SOURCE switch to F.EG / PGM - this means we'll be using a programmable source (filter envelope generator is the default, hence the F.EG / PGM label). The source we want for this is a constant level. To set up that we need to use the MOD 2 controllers menu:

- press the CONTROLLERS button in the MOD 2 section, this brings up the MOD 2 menu
- select AFTERTOUCH and set it to 100%
- select MOD 2 EDIT and press CURSOR to go into the sub menu for selecting source and destination
- select PGM SRC and and set it to CONST ON
- select PGM DST and set it to FILT DRV (Note: assigning a mod destination can be done much easier: hold the MOD 2 DEST button down while turning the MULTIDRIVE knob, and the assignment is automatically made - this works for all the knobs and buttons)

.

(click image for full size)

What does CONST ON mean? What is constantly on? When I think source, I think... Like. The water pipes in the sink, that's the water source.


When using this, I got it to work, I just don't understand why it works.
https://goo.gl/photos/426S6dmLving5Cdy6


Also, here is my Moog on the init Panel. I don't understand why when playing a C and E, I hear like a bead resonating. It's not unpleasant, just don't understand why it's there.
Old 12th January 2016
  #23
Gear Nut
 

Also, multi drive is on already, what exactly does pressing on the aftertouch do, then? Extra multi drive? I used the example I quoted from you.
Old 12th January 2016
  #24
Lives for gear
 
DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
What does CONST ON mean? What is constantly on? When I think source, I think... Like. The water pipes in the sink, that's the water source.
CONST ON (constant on) means that the modulation is not varying periodically, as it does when you use an LFO waveform. This is useful when you want to control the destination manually, e.g. so that the desination parameter follows the position of your mod wheel.

Quote:
When using this, I got it to work, I just don't understand why it works.
https://goo.gl/photos/426S6dmLving5Cdy6
Now, I'm the one that's lost - which patch is this picture?

Quote:
Also, here is my Moog on the init Panel. I don't understand why when playing a C and E, I hear like a bead resonating. It's not unpleasant, just don't understand why it's there.
Hm... Should there be another picture here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
Also, multi drive is on already, what exactly does pressing on the aftertouch do, then? Extra multi drive? I used the example I quoted from you.
If you're thinking about the Shut Up and Dance patch, then yes that's exactly what it does.
Old 12th January 2016
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
CONST ON means that the modulation is not varying periodically, as it does when you use an LFO waveform. This is useful when you want to control the destination manually, e.g. so that the desination parameter follows the position of your mod wheel.


Now, I'm the one that's lost - which patch is this picture?


Hm... Should there be another picture here?


If you're thinking about the Shut Up and Dance patch, then yes that's exactly what it does.

That picture is the patch I made up. I don't know if you can see the details. There's some kind of beading from C and E, but I don't think I have anything set to that...
Old 12th January 2016
  #26
Lives for gear
 
DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
That picture is the patch I made up. I don't know if you can see the details. There's some kind of beading from C and E, but I don't think I have anything set to that...
Ah, OK! I can see the knob and switch settings.

The beating you mention can be from playing certain intervals. I replicated the patch in the picture as best as I can here, and I do get a slow beating when playing a major third, not only for C and E but also when that chord is transposed, e.g. C# and F. I also get a slow beating on a perfect fifth (C and G, C# and G# etgc.). The other intervals give a sort of raspy sound with high frequency beating. Is that the same as you get?

I see the patch is set up to use MOD 2 with F.EG / PGM as the source and EG TIME / PGM as the destination, so I get a slight pitch bend controlled by the filter envelope. Is there any specific effect you're aiming for there, and do you intend to use any controllers for that?

As the patches become more complex, it is increasingly difficult to convey everything about them. Luckily, the VST editor for the Sub 37 is due for release very soon, and that will be a great tool for exploring and sharing patches. Check it out at the Moog forum here.
Old 12th January 2016
  #27
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
Ah, OK! I can see the knob and switch settings.

The beating you mention can be from playing certain intervals. I replicated the patch in the picture as best as I can here, and I do get a slow beating when playing a major third, not only for C and E but also when that chord is transposed, e.g. C# and F. I also get a slow beating on a perfect fifth (C and G, C# and G# etgc.). The other intervals give a sort of raspy sound with high frequency beating. Is that the same as you get?

I see the patch is set up to use MOD 2 with F.EG / PGM as the source and EG TIME / PGM as the destination, so I get a slight pitch bend controlled by the filter envelope. Is there any specific effect you're aiming for there, and do you intend to use any controllers for that?

As the patches become more complex, it is increasingly difficult to convey everything about them. Luckily, the VST editor for the Sub 37 is due for release very soon, and that will be a great tool for exploring and sharing patches. Check it out at the Moog forum here.

i *think* i have the mod 1 set to the wheel, and the mod 2 set to aftertouch to play with. I was just looking at the editor! Very cool. Is that how you would import .syx patches? ( http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...7-synthesizer/)

I saw a few of those for free.
I'd like to just get like 1 or 2 of those. Would I need to import all of theM?

I also like this funk sounds pack I saw, I might purchase that. http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...patch-library/

Yeah, it's major thirds that I noticed the beading on. Not as much on perfect fifths. Let me check on the raspy high sound when i get home. I was looking for just a clean sound and don't understand. I will add some grit to it later, but in my head, w/ everything like, basically tuned down, why it doens't sound more pure.
Old 12th January 2016
  #28
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DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkpod View Post
i *think* i have the mod 1 set to the wheel, and the mod 2 set to aftertouch to play with.
Right - you're in the thick of it then

I do recommend the learning technique of using an init patch, then trying out the features of the synth one at a time, so that you can isolate and observe the effects of them with certainty, perhaps also reading the user manual sections on the features you are trying out. It may be a bit boring, but time well spent I reckon.

Quote:
I was just looking at the editor! Very cool. Is that how you would import .syx patches? ( http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...7-synthesizer/)
I would think the editor can save and load .syx files directly, yes. You can also use MIDI-OX to save, load and transfer .syx files. Most sequencers will also allow you to import .syx files, which can then be transferred to the synth by playing back a track with the imported data.

Once the editor is launched all this exploring patches together will be so much easier
Old 12th January 2016
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
MusicEasel's Avatar
 

This is so wrong!
DrJustice just wrote something so informative it could have been a manual, so now I have to RTFM!





Class, man!
Thanks!
...and yes, it does restore some form of faith.
Old 12th January 2016
  #30
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
Right - you're in the thick of it then

I do recommend the learning technique of using an init patch, then trying out the features of the synth one at a time, so that you can isolate and observe the effects of them with certainty, perhaps also reading the user manual sections on the features you are trying out. It may be a bit boring, but time well spent I reckon.



I would think the editor can save and load .syx files directly, yes. You can also use MIDI-OX to save, load and transfer .syx files. Most sequencers will also allow you to import .syx files, which can then be transferred to the synth by playing back a track with the imported data.

Once the editor is launched all this exploring patches together will be so much easier
Yes, I've been reading the manual, it's very informative! So I understand the manual? Kind of...

Alas, I use a Mac, so no midi-ox it seems...
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