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Getting a Virus TI in 2016?
Old 31st December 2015
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Getting a Virus TI in 2016?

Hi All,

Wanted to hear some opinions (-:

I have a desktop Virus B which I like and I thought about snagging a used TI\TI2 desktop module.

I'm a bit unsure about doing so though, because:
  • It is unclear what is the current state with Virus Control, most threads I found were at least 2 years old - is it still buggy?
  • Is it also buggy when getting audio through the TI's analog inputs instead of USB?
  • The TI was released more then a decade ago - I get it that Access provided software updates through the years, though this is still an older digital synth which hasn't been updated for quiet a while and it's price tag even used is pretty expensive IMO.
  • Is the Virus Control getting updated for new OS's\DAW's? Did anyone try to use it on Windows 10\Live 9.5?
  • Any rumors about a TI3 release? Any comments from Access? Are they still totally integrated to the Kemper stuff?

I like the thought of making sound design mostly on the TI, programming all my patches hands on and recording live automation - I do this with the B and I feel there's an added value to that.

I also like the Virus sound and the sounds of the unison hypersaws and Wavetables from the TI are great - again thinking that programming all of these sounds would be hands on instead of using Serum for example is completely awesome IMO.

I'm unsure however if that is a good time to get one - what do you think?
Old 31st December 2015
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Similar situation to Yamaha's Motif series - you get the feeling an update is just around the corner.
Old 31st December 2015
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
JemenJ's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Let's hope that we see Access booth on NAMM. Anyway they should drop their prices, 10 year old dsp's must be cheaper nowadays....
Old 31st December 2015
  #4
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fusionid's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I think getting a used TI2 is good timing since good key bed, controls and price probably good since fall of popularity. Only caveat is if new virus next year the price will drop pretty large so you could lose 30% of the value of what you buy from the get go.

You have a virus B so you know what kind of quality you get.

personally I like mouse and keyboard for interface better so I would never buy a virus unless it brought something new. I have alchemy (comes with logic), massive, hive and monark. i can not honest to god find anything I could possibly need.

hives makes supersaws like the best of them.

I also read that there have been several updates making the virus ti interface less intuitive than it used to be. I hate hate hardware menu diving. Rather use a mouse.
Old 31st December 2015
  #5
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plaid_emu's Avatar
I might hold off for now unless you can get a screaming deal on a TI2. At least wait until NAMM or maybe even Musikmesse. Virus Control has worked great for me 96% of the time over the last several years. There was a brief few months in the early days of ownership where the arp would not properly sync to midi clock. It got sorted. The audio works fine over USB with no noticeable latency on Mac OS X. Occasionally I'll get a click or pop but that's only when I'm REALLY pushing it. I also set my buffer to no more than 128 samples (usually 64). Works and sounds great with an RME Fireface 400 as the output.
Old 31st December 2015
  #6
Deleted b5734b5
Guest
You have one of the best Virus, if not the best sounding one.

You never lose with Virus, I'm using the B and I don't fell it outdated at all, they are that good.

The Ti2 is f... amazing, it really fits any music style, their integration is working solid here.

Ti2 + a vintage poly analog and you are set for many years.

....Grab all of them it's my GS advice
Old 31st December 2015
  #7
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DarkPlasma's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The TI is a brilliant synth, really sounds great on everything.

I don't use the VirusControl, I just have it connected via analog to my Mackie. I just trigger it from my DAW and record the audio through the Mackie's FW. Works great.

Lots of updates from Access in the past...my favourite was the new delay modes, the delay is killer!

I would wait till NAMM...although I don't expect anything from Access myself.
Old 31st December 2015
  #8
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Mcnulty's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
There are some good value 2nd hand ti,s around. The integration works well if you follow the steps to ensure it is setup properly for your daw. The latest would also compliment your B also.. I don't think there will be a TI3. Rumors surface each year but nothing happens. I find virus control works well but I also use stand alone as well. Don't use USB audio always analog outs.
Old 31st December 2015
  #9
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enossified's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trippled View Post
  • It is unclear what is the current state with Virus Control, most threads I found were at least 2 years old - is it still buggy?
  • Is it also buggy when getting audio through the TI's analog inputs instead of USB?
I owned a Snow for a while, using Virus Control with Ableton Live 8 and 9 and Cubase AI5 on a Mac. I had no problems with it at all.

I do not think the software is buggy. It has been out in the real world for a decade now so I would think there are more people using it successfully than those who are not. You never see people posting in forums like this about stuff that works for them, only about stuff that does not. Whether you will have issues or not I can't say.

Most of the problems people have had with it were related to the USB audio, so if you use the analog outputs you should have no issues at all.
Old 31st December 2015
  #10
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intuitionnyc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm in the same boat as the OP, but I think I am just gonna wait it out for a bit (at least til after this NAMM). I had a Virus TI Keyboard but sold it because it was just too big for the studio. I've always regretted selling it. I am always on the brink of getting a second hand Virus TI Polar. I don't think I need a TI2 polar because I don't need the extra processing power (or at least I don't think I do).

I am quite nervous about pulling the trigger as they haven't made a TI3 or new product in quite a while. However, I have been saying the same thing for the past 4-5 years. Waiting a tiny bit til NAMM will do a couple of things. 1) wait to see if a new TI3 or something is coming out which would then 2) Drop 2nd hand prices down. Will have to see.
Old 31st December 2015
  #11
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tehlord's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've owned a Ti61, Snow, then a C and now a Ti desktop and they've all been fine as far as USB integration goes. The one thing that's often flaky is the arpeggio timing, but the arpeggiator on the Virus doesn't do anything special anyway.

The one reason I sold the C and got a Ti is I'm not a fan of some of the more in depth features of the Virus via the hardware interface. The Ti Control plugin is a big bonus for me.

I don't think that prices will drop even if a new model is launched as Virus prices have been solid for years (all models). In fact, I sold my Ti61 for Β£900 5 years ago and they still go for almost the same amount now!

If you're in the UK I'm selling my Ti desktop in favour of a Polar, but in any case it's worth getting one as they're killer machines.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #12
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intuitionnyc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehlord View Post
I don't think that prices will drop even if a new model is launched as Virus prices have been solid for years (all models). In fact, I sold my Ti61 for Β£900 5 years ago and they still go for almost the same amount now!
I do agree that most Virus tend to retain their value over time. But my question with the TI series is this....if they DO in fact come out with a TI3 or some new design that is a real game changer in the integration game, will this hurt TI or TI2 pricing since a "big" part of the TI's is the integration factor? Yes, you can still use a TI like a Indigo or other older virus and they would still rock. But just curious as to the implications.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcnulty View Post
Don't use USB audio always analog outs.
Why? I can't tell the difference here, am I missing something?
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #14
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tehlord's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by intuitionnyc View Post
I do agree that most Virus tend to retain their value over time. But my question with the TI series is this....if they DO in fact come out with a TI3 or some new design that is a real game changer in the integration game, will this hurt TI or TI2 pricing since a "big" part of the TI's is the integration factor? Yes, you can still use a TI like a Indigo or other older virus and they would still rock. But just curious as to the implications.
I don't think so, because the move from the Virus C to Virus Ti didn't appear to hurt values at all. Not in the UK anyway.

Also, to completely overhaul the Virus series would now involve massive investment in new hardware/chips etc. I bet the Ti3 would be a good deal more expensive than the current models as well.
Old 1st January 2016
  #15
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EDGEK8D's Avatar
I've only ever had, and still have a Virus B. I wouldn't know but some claim its the best of the bunch. It certainly seems to sound a bit dark, almost like you open that filter, and want it to keep going a bit, but it stops. From what I hear the TI stuff is a bit less gritty.

They are really good VA synths. Coupled with the FX and decent programming, it can do almost anything.

I think the interface kind of has a bad rep, but if you read your manual and experiment a bit, you can really rifle through those menus very quickly. I mean, anyone tried programming a JX-3P or Matrix 6 lately....the Virus is extremely more firendly than those.

I would find a deal on the TI 2nd hand. Keep the B. Contrast and compare the two, and see if the new features and overall sound are useful for your or not. Sell the one you don't need, and post results of your experiment here.

I don't use it a whole lot, but I am almost always surprised by how good it sounds whenever I do use it. Once you wrap your head around how to use the LFO's, assign destinations, figure out that thrid oscillator, and get acquainted with the dual multimode series/parallel filters, the sky is the limit really.
Old 1st January 2016
  #16
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tehlord's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think the bad rep is justified considering the alternatives (Nord Leads, JPs, Supernova etc). I had a Supernova and didn't need to refer to the manual at all, wheras the C had me scratching my head WITH the manual in my hand!

Admittedly, the Virus does cover a lot more ground but that just means the plugin is even more useful in altering the more under the hood features.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #17
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Mcnulty's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotCoffee View Post
Why? I can't tell the difference here, am I missing something?
In the past this had caused issues with the virus control and is also using your sound card DAC. If you have a crappy sound card this is what you hear. The virus dacs sound pretty good. You also place extra work for you PC to process the sound through the USB which is what causes most of the issues with integration depending on your PC processing power. You can also have the analog outs go through outboard gear for some added flavour.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcnulty View Post
In the past this had caused issues with the virus control and is also using your sound card DAC. If you have a crappy sound card this is what you hear. The virus dacs sound pretty good. You also place extra work for you PC to process the sound through the USB which is what causes most of the issues with integration depending on your PC processing power. You can also have the analog outs go through outboard gear for some added flavour.
Never experienced any issues myself, but what you say makes sense. Thank you
Old 1st January 2016
  #19
The Virus TI2 delivers!
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcnulty View Post
In the past this had caused issues with the virus control and is also using your sound card DAC. If you have a crappy sound card this is what you hear. The virus dacs sound pretty good. You also place extra work for you PC to process the sound through the USB which is what causes most of the issues with integration depending on your PC processing power. You can also have the analog outs go through outboard gear for some added flavour.
That kinda sounds odd to me - how come does the Virus uses your audio interface's DAC if it's connected via USB? I don't have a TI as you may understood, however I would assume that the audio is being streamed digitally over USB to your host's Driver and then out through the speakers. I would think that going with audio through USB you would have no conversion happening at all til the DA conversion to your output speakers.

D to A only takes place when going out of your audio interface, in order to get in you need A to D, Virus would stream the audio digitally already through USB - again, I may not be on top of the TI technology but this is how that would normally be done.

Streaming audio through USB is also unstable with Elektron's Overbridge if anyone wondered btw.

I wouldn't think the TI prices would stand steel after a TI3 release, I do think TI 1 used to go for more then what I see it nowdays on Ebay (1K) and I think current TI owners would get a massive GAS attack and many more TI's would be up for sale - it's been a decade... Kinda crazy.
Old 1st January 2016
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I wouldn't, unless you snag a great price on one. They cost too much for a 6-7 year old digital product that is not state of the art, IMHO. There are two things that I would be concerned about at this moment..either that a major update is around the corner (does anyone know if the dsp they use has been discontinued, etc...that typically would suggest an update is nigh), or that long term support might get dropped (is Access just gonna focus on Kemper, etc).
Old 1st January 2016
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I love my TI2, it's too critical of a synth to let go, and its 61 key keyboard is like butter (only my Fizmo is similar...).

I agree with several others here: wait til NAMM or spring for one if an amazing deal is to be had.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #23
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Mcnulty's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trippled View Post
That kinda sounds odd to me - how come does the Virus uses your audio interface's DAC if it's connected via USB? I don't have a TI as you may understood, however I would assume that the audio is being streamed digitally over USB to your host's Driver and then out through the speakers. I would think that going with audio through USB you would have no conversion happening at all til the DA conversion to your output speakers.

D to A only takes place when going out of your audio interface, in order to get in you need A to D, Virus would stream the audio digitally already through USB - again, I may not be on top of the TI technology but this is how that would normally be done.

Streaming audio through USB is also unstable with Elektron's Overbridge if anyone wondered btw.

I wouldn't think the TI prices would stand steel after a TI3 release, I do think TI 1 used to go for more then what I see it nowdays on Ebay (1K) and I think current TI owners would get a massive GAS attack and many more TI's would be up for sale - it's been a decade... Kinda crazy.
You pretty much answered your own question. The USB audio is digital and uses your interface DAC to your monitors. Depending on your interface quality and PC abilities to process the USB plus all the other information your asking it to do this may affect the integration software of the virus.
Analog out of the virus uses its dacs. USB uses the PC/ interface dacs. Depends which ones you like the sound of and how much information the USB bus has to process. Hope that simplifies it for you
Old 1st January 2016
  #24
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Mcnulty's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
And just to remind you the USB interface of the virus is USB 1. Processing audio and signal information over USB 1 will lead to possible problems
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcnulty View Post
You pretty much answered your own question. The USB audio is digital and uses your interface DAC to your monitors. Depending on your interface quality and PC abilities to process the USB plus all the other information your asking it to do this may affect the integration software of the virus.
Analog out of the virus uses its dacs. USB uses the PC/ interface dacs. Depends which ones you like the sound of and how much information the USB bus has to process. Hope that simplifies it for you
It uses the interfacrs DAC also when you use the analog audio outs from the Virus - all of your channels in your DAW are usually summed to a stereo output and being converted to audio.

The problems with the TI should only be related to USB bandwidth, not to a DA/AD conversion.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
I've only ever had, and still have a Virus B. I wouldn't know but some claim its the best of the bunch. It certainly seems to sound a bit dark, almost like you open that filter, and want it to keep going a bit, but it stops. From what I hear the TI stuff is a bit less gritty.
Thats mostly nonsense. At one point I had a Virus B desktop, Virus C desktop and a TI keyboard in the same room together when I had to dump all my patches onto the TI and they are the same.

It only sounds different if you attempt to do things like dump a vC patch onto a vB and it uses the band EQ or moog filter (whatever) since vB doesn't have them.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #27
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Mcnulty's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trippled View Post
It uses the interfacrs DAC also when you use the analog audio outs from the Virus - all of your channels in your DAW are usually summed to a stereo output and being converted to audio.

The problems with the TI should only be related to USB bandwidth, not to a DA/AD conversion.
But the bandwidth is stressed when you add the digital audio especially on the virus USB 1 interface. Total integration plus audio over usb1 . Not the best of combinations
Old 1st January 2016
  #28
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Mcnulty's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Anyway if you have your USB busses set up correctly with a good PC processor the TI plus audio should work fine. This was the problems early on with those that did not check their setup and tweak it to suit. I find the analog outs through some outboard processing then to the daw work well for me. If you use USB audio and it works with TI. Great. Whatever works
Old 1st January 2016
  #29
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Grimulkan's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trippled View Post
<snip>
  • It is unclear what is the current state with Virus Control, most threads I found were at least 2 years old - is it still buggy?
  • Is it also buggy when getting audio through the TI's analog inputs instead of USB?
Some thoughts:
Virus Control works okay in my experience. I do get clicks and pops now and then using USB audio (especially when pushing it) despite trying different cables, ports and USB cards. So I don't use it. I do use the analog outs instead but there will be an annoying delay caused by triggering notes via the Virus plugin since the PDC is no longer valid. You can use something like Expert Sleeper's Buffered Delay or Latency Fixer or whatever your DAW has to address it. I don't really use the Virus multi-timbrally though. Also, I haven't found a way to route MIDI independently to the Virus except via the plugin when it is used. Analog ins for FX processing work fine.

You could use the Ctrlr panel instead if you want to avoid the plugin altogether and still have most of the functionality. This will make it more like a traditional outboard synth but you'll still have VST-based control, patch recall, automation, etc. Shame there are so few Ctrlr panels, but there is one for the TI.
Old 1st January 2016 | Show parent
  #30
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Thunderkyss's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by intuitionnyc View Post
I do agree that most Virus tend to retain their value over time. But my question with the TI series is this....if they DO in fact come out with a TI3 or some new design that is a real game changer in the integration game, will this hurt TI or TI2 pricing since a "big" part of the TI's is the integration factor? Yes, you can still use a TI like a Indigo or other older virus and they would still rock. But just curious as to the implications.

I think the cost of a used TI is so low now you'd be protected. The TI2, not so much... unless you're extremely patient & find someone selling a used TI2 at a deep discount.

I definitely wouldn't buy one new.

As far as the bugginess of TI control, I use it all the time to see what's happening in a patch. I also use it in my DAW... never had a problem. But I also never use the audio over USB as my TI goes through my mixer which I use as a patchbay, kinda, to route various signals to & from my DAW. My studio has been set up this way for years, I'm used to it.
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