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Tuning the FMR Audio RNC for techno with HPF in the SC loop Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 9th December 2015
  #1
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AdamJay's Avatar
 

Tuning the FMR Audio RNC for techno with HPF in the SC loop

Anyone else using the side chain FX loop in the RNC (or RNLA) to get more of a handle on the control signal going to the RNC? I think too often it is misunderstood as a key input type of side chain, when it is actually an fx loop type.

I was using an Arion bass EQ pedal in the loop for this before, but wanted more room in my road case so came up with a different, more portable, passive solution.

$15 for this Harrison Labs FMOD 100hz passive HPF.
Tuning the FMR Audio RNC for techno with HPF in the SC loop1 Harrison Labs Fmod 100Hz HP High Pass Satellite Electronic Crossover USA Made | eBay
$2 for an RCA female coupler
$7 for a TRS 1/4 to dual RCA insert cable.

Patch together like so (see attached pic), and plug the 1/4" TRS end into the RNC's side chain.... ahh, much better. Really makes the RNC wonderful for techno, especially in Super Nice mode.

There are other frequencies available for these RCA inline high pass crossover filters, 150hz - Tuning the FMR Audio RNC for techno with HPF in the SC loop1 Harrison Labs Fmod 150Hz HP High Pass Satellite Electronic Crossover USA Made | eBay
, 200hz, 300hz, etc.
They're 12dB slope.
Attached Thumbnails
Tuning the FMR Audio RNC for techno with HPF in the SC loop-12345486_10208130425879872_7282855290890690402_n.jpg  

Last edited by AdamJay; 9th December 2015 at 04:27 AM..
Old 10th December 2015
  #2
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Looks like they make a 70hz one as well. That might be useful as an alternative to the 100hz.
Old 19th January 2016
  #3
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I played around with my Arion bass graphic EQ pedal in the sidechain loop to see which frequency would work out best with my music prior to purchase.

It is probably best to experiment with such a device and your own material, or at least with a software compressor with HPF SC filter. The EQ section of Live 9's Glue Compressor can do it.
Find the frequency that works best for you, and then buy the hardware crossover equivalent.
Old 20th January 2016
  #4
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The RNC sucks the bass out of bass and drums. Is this hpf on SC meant to eliminate this? I'd like to know how I can pump techno with this.

B
Old 20th January 2016
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveItAll View Post
The RNC sucks the bass out of bass and drums. Is this hpf on SC meant to eliminate this?
That's exactly what it does.
Old 20th January 2016
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay View Post
That's exactly what it does.
can you explain the signal routing setup better? I still don't understand what you're trying to say and doing here...

I don't have an RNC but they do interest me
Old 20th January 2016
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonetacular View Post
can you explain the signal routing setup better? I still don't understand what you're trying to say and doing here...

I don't have an RNC but they do interest me

Just run the mains through the RNC.
Patch the FMOD crossover as depicted in the image earlier in the thread into the TRS send/receive loop on the back of the RNC.

RNC compressors the stereo signal, but (and this is what is different) only uses information at 100hz and above to inform how it reacts as a compressor. In other words, with the HPF, it doesn't compress as hard when heavy bass information is present, and therefore doesn't suck the life out of the signal.
Old 20th January 2016
  #8
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cool. so do you use this on the master bus?
Old 20th January 2016
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonetacular View Post
cool. so do you use this on the master bus?
I do.

You can hear it here: https://soundcloud.com/adamjaylive/a...le-ky-12-31-15
Old 20th January 2016
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Great tip. Never thought of using the SC loop until now. Cheers!
Old 20th January 2016
  #11
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Nice, sounds like it does the trick perfectly.. (Do you leave super nice mode off? That would be my guess.) Thanks!
Old 20th January 2016
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

After a quick google, can't seem to find anything like those Harrison FMODs over here in the UK. Anyone have a suggestion?
Old 24th January 2016
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewsc View Post
Nice, sounds like it does the trick perfectly.. (Do you leave super nice mode off? That would be my guess.) Thanks!
I prefer Super Nice mode on, actually.
Old 24th January 2016
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnny View Post
After a quick google, can't seem to find anything like those Harrison FMODs over here in the UK. Anyone have a suggestion?
PartsExpress ships to the UK
harrison fmod high pass - Parts Express Ships Fast and Ships Free.

Harrison ships to the UK too, $18 US is their shipping rate:
Harrison FMODS
Old 24th January 2016
  #15
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Sclr's Avatar
Thanks! I have been looking to pick up a rnc. This helps understand its side chain feature a lot more and answers a lot of questions i had about the rnc.
Old 24th January 2016
  #16
Quote:
Great sound mate! Instant follow

We're also preparing a 100% hardware live set and will follow your updates.
Don't know your set-up in detail, but the result is excellent.

Cheers.
Old 25th January 2016
  #17
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After reading this Attack article about attack time on a compressor

https://www.attackmagazine.com/featu...f-compression/

I now think a fixed time delay instead of high pass for the side chain input would produce the compressed pumping without killling the kick drum.
Old 26th January 2016
  #18
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Would anyone know how to build something like this?

I would imaging it might be just a couple of resistors in the plug. I think there was a cable that did something similar for the SSL FX-G384 compressor that you'd use in its side chain as well.
Old 12th February 2016
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJay View Post
I prefer Super Nice mode on, actually.
Interesting. When I read in the manual that Super Nice mode acts as 3 compressors, I guess I could not fully understand if those three are in parallel or in a series.

Either way, my previous experiments with using super nice mode for ducking seemed to indicate that it reacted much more slowly than regular mode. Not sure if it was 3 times more slowly, but as long as the timing works, that's cool. I'll have to check it out again, maybe it was excess bass slowing down the release response at the time, and hi pass filter would've solved it.

(Picked up a copy of Self Exile on cd the other day after having bought it for a friend as a gift years back. Excellent vibes, and I've been enjoying catching up on your new stuff!)
Old 12th February 2016
  #20
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Where to buy this passive HPF in Eu?
Old 16th February 2016
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalker View Post
Where to buy this passive HPF in Eu?
Parts Express will ship it to you from the states.

Your other option would be a cheap bass EQ pedal, used in the same way, with the lowest frequencies cut. You can get a greater cut by boosting the other frequencies and dialing in the pedal's level fader as well.
I previously used a cheap Japanese Arion Bass EQ pedal for the same purpose.
It worked well enough, but the FMOD is a little better for my music, and certainly more portable for gigs.

Good luck!
Old 16th February 2016
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewsc View Post
Interesting. When I read in the manual that Super Nice mode acts as 3 compressors, I guess I could not fully understand if those three are in parallel or in a series.

Either way, my previous experiments with using super nice mode for ducking seemed to indicate that it reacted much more slowly than regular mode. Not sure if it was 3 times more slowly, but as long as the timing works, that's cool. I'll have to check it out again, maybe it was excess bass slowing down the release response at the time, and hi pass filter would've solved it.
Yea, it is a completely different machine with the HPF in place. Can certainly get into L2/Ozone Maximizer territory this way. I run the fastest attack, a fast/medium release, and 10:1 ratio.
Super Nice mode is certainly not what you want for ducking, and i'm not using it for that. I'm seeking high GR, even limiting of the master mix


Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewsc View Post
(Picked up a copy of Self Exile on cd the other day after having bought it for a friend as a gift years back. Excellent vibes, and I've been enjoying catching up on your new stuff!)
Thanks. Wow, feels like I wrote that a life-time ago.
Old 14th April 2017
  #23
pjk
Gear Addict
Thanks for this useful suggestion Adam. My boss GE-7 makes both my rnc and joe meek mc2 much more useful to me now, but i have to use isolation transformers in and out if i don't want to use battery to stop hum.

I am also looking for an alternative to the Harrison labs HPF's in the UK as its £50 or more just for 2 of them once import etc is paid which is a lot of money for two small filters. I could use my desk eq but want to keep it passive and simple if can.

Anyone know of a EU or UK firm making these ?

I can't seem to find one...

Last edited by pjk; 14th April 2017 at 03:37 PM..
Old 15th April 2017
  #24
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Signifier's Avatar
I guess you could use a mixer channel on your desk with the mic pre HPF engaged, depending on where the cutoff is set and the slope it is set at.... 100Hz may not be ideal, but they come in various flavours from 70Hz up. I think they are usually 24dB/oct.
Old 15th April 2017
  #25
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Making your own from a few pennies worth of parts is not rocket science....

Passive Filter Circuits - All
Old 17th April 2017
  #26
pjk
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Making your own from a few pennies worth of parts is not rocket science....

Passive Filter Circuits - All
Thanks mate that was an interesting read but other than a bit of soldering i am a total novice so would need more info on how to set the roll off ( in db / octave ) and what exact parts would be needed and how to build a casing and fit it in and get right i / o impedance etc. Plus i haven't a clue with maths. I'm sure it could be done relatively cheaply for those with knowledge but i'm just going to get those FMOD inline HPF's to save myself the hassle.

A variable frequency HPF with off button and even variable roll off would be the dogs bollocks though ! Shame you can't get these for cheap. I got a variable LPF for £8 but HPF's are just not available unfortunately except for the FMOD.

cheers
Old 17th April 2017
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjk View Post
Thanks mate that was an interesting read but other than a bit of soldering i am a total novice so would need more info on how to set the roll off ( in db / octave ) and what exact parts would be needed and how to build a casing and fit it in and get right i / o impedance etc. Plus i haven't a clue with maths. I'm sure it could be done relatively cheaply for those with knowledge but i'm just going to get those FMOD inline HPF's to save myself the hassle.

A variable frequency HPF with off button and even variable roll off would be the dogs bollocks though ! Shame you can't get these for cheap. I got a variable LPF for £8 but HPF's are just not available unfortunately except for the FMOD.

cheers
You can get a Drawmer DS201 gate for 60 quid or so most weeks and you get two channels of both hign and low pass 12dB butterworths that sound ace.....
Old 17th April 2017
  #28
pjk
Gear Addict
Thanks mate. I looked into the drawer earlier but doesn't the frequency for the HPF only start at 250 Hz ? ( marked HF ). Thats a bit high for me as i was after more 50 - 200 max HPF for side chaining just to remove lows below 200 for buses / groups.

cheers
Old 17th April 2017
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjk View Post
Thanks mate. I looked into the drawer earlier but doesn't the frequency for the HPF only start at 250 Hz ? ( marked HF ). Thats a bit high for me as i was after more 50 - 200 max HPF for side chaining just to remove lows below 200 for buses / groups.

cheers
You read the manual wrong. The hipass is called low filter and starts at 25Hz. It's the lowpass that goes down to 250.
Old 17th April 2017
  #30
pjk
Gear Addict
Ah yes, other than the xlr y cables needed and no ground lift they look great thanks. I think i'll stick with the fixed frequency inline passives for now but thats good to know if a cheap one pops up.

cheers

Last edited by pjk; 17th April 2017 at 08:34 PM..
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