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Yamaha Reface.. yes
Old 29th October 2019
  #751
Here for the gear
So I bought a Reface CS recently.

Blown away by its usability.
Wonder if I made a mistake not buying a DX instead.

Looking to buy a CP next... .
Old 29th October 2019 | Show parent
  #752
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ofey View Post
So I bought a Reface CS recently.

Blown away by its usability.
Wonder if I made a mistake not buying a DX instead.

Looking to buy a CP next... .
I own a Reface DX and a CP, the reface DX is imo a not a good buy for what it offers (and I know my FM synth stuff). For the DX there are better and at the same time also way cheaper alternatives. A 8 poly 4 op synth with pseudo feedback (it’s not real feedback) and a dual effects engine in 2019 just isnt a good offer imo. You did right getting the CS. Similar to the DX, there are equivalent software alternatives but less handson, which unlike the DX/ FM where software interfaces shine, is a nice selling point for hardware VA. The CP is also great.One of the best electric piano + effects simulations on the market.
Old 29th October 2019
  #753
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I have just purchased a second CS. One is sequenced by a Polyend Seq, and one is played by hand.
The CS gives me everything I like about FM (which is plinky bells, airy pads and a few basses) and is so easy to operate that I can dial in even FM sounds and know how they sound in advance - no need to store anything.
Might just as well buy a third one...

Cheers,
Bert
Old 29th October 2019 | Show parent
  #754
Lives for gear
I have the DX, CP and YC.

The YC is fun, but apart from the immediacy of the sliders, there are a lot of other ways to do that sort of sound. I've been frustrated by my Roland JV-1010 and XV-3080 (rompler sound modules) because they can't do a smooth velocity response - they can only switch between four samples, in layers. For organ sounds though, they work very well, because there is no need for velocity - and the YC doesn't have it anyway.

The CP is great apart from the silent soft notes problem - which I made a work around for, but I don't feel I should have had to, and I'd still much prefer if it was just a setting to always make a sound, no matter how softly I play.

The DX is the best of those three, in my opinion. I also own a TX7 (module version of the DX7) and a TX81Z (vintage 8 poly 4 op). The DX is the best out of those three too, because it's self contained, and far, far more editable.

With the addition of any assignable MIDI controller, or Martin Tarenskeen's Ctrlr panel (http://ctrlr.martintarenskeen.nl/) it becomes even more editable.

Ignoring the effects (which are quite useable), the TX7 beats it on spec, but not at all on usability.

Thanks also to Martin Tarenskeen, there are a lot of existing 4op patches that can be loaded into the DX too, including all the factory presets for things like the TX81Z, DX100, DX11, FB-01 and so on. He wrote software to convert between the different formats. and has made a large collection of ones he's already converted:

http://refacedx.martintarenskeen.nl/
Old 29th October 2019 | Show parent
  #755
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidDisco View Post
I own a Reface DX and a CP, the reface DX is imo a not a good buy for what it offers (and I know my FM synth stuff). For the DX there are better and at the same time also way cheaper alternatives. A 8 poly 4 op synth with pseudo feedback (it’s not real feedback) .
The reface dx is actually real feedback , but the way it differs from all the other dx series is that the gain multiplier that routes the operator's output back ( feedback routing) is not affected by the amp. envelope , iow the feedback is static .( the feedback is tapped directly from the operator's output and not from the operator amp*env stage like other dx series)
If you have full feedback on a dx7 ( single operator ) and a decaying amp. curve (sustain zero) ,not only will the output decrease , but it will also go from saw to sine because there is less and less gain routed back to the operator due to the decaying envelope (feedback)
On the reface this is not the case , there will only be change in amplitude , but the output will remain a saw ( or square for negative feedback )
Which is one of the reasons I didn't buy one .
The way they produced a square wave is by taking the squared output of the operator and routing it back .
The absolute value routed back also gives a squarish like tone
I made a great sounding reaktor ensemble that does exactly the same thing + partials

https://www.native-instruments.com/e...try/show/8291/
Old 29th October 2019 | Show parent
  #756
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
The reface dx is actually real feedback , but the way it differs from all the other dx series is that the gain multiplier that routes the operator's output back ( feedback routing) is not affected by the amp. envelope , iow the feedback is static .( the feedback is tapped directly from the operator's output and not from the operator amp*env stage like other dx series)
If you have full feedback on a dx7 ( single operator ) and a decaying amp. curve (sustain zero) ,not only will the output decrease , but it will also go from saw to sine because there is less and less gain routed back to the operator due to the decaying envelope (feedback)
On the reface this is not the case , there will only be change in amplitude , but the output will remain a saw ( or square for negative feedback )
Which is one of the reasons I didn't buy one .
The way they produced a square wave is by taking the squared output of the operator and routing it back .
The absolute value routed back also gives a squarish like tone
I made a great sounding reaktor ensemble that does exactly the same thing + partials

https://www.native-instruments.com/e...try/show/8291/
Yes, the feedback isnt actual feedback. It’s just a waveform selector for the operators, with 256 waves. You can test this yourself.

Furthermore, as you laid out it has none the dynamics of real feedback.

It’s just more accurate to say that the reface DX has selectable 256 waveforms going from saw to sine to square. I strongly suspect they are hardcoded. Which would incidentally be the most processor efficient thing to do since sample rom isnt an issue in modern days.

You can achieve similar result with feedback, but real feedback can do more and really is a different thing.
Old 29th October 2019
  #757
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Anybody know where I'd find a replacement alps volume fader for the yc? I'm hoping it's a standard part but no luck in my searches.
Old 2nd November 2019 | Show parent
  #758
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Has Anyone used it as a controller for omnisphere??
Old 20th November 2019
  #759
Here for the gear
Update for me...
So I bought a CS right?

I've now ordered a CP, decided to past on the DX after playing with one.
I probably will start saving for a Roland JD-XI next.

All 3 in sync with Ableton and I should be dandy... .
Old 13th January 2020 | Show parent
  #760
Deleted 0ec6b8e
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by horacewimp View Post
Just stuck the CS through an oscilloscope, I can easily get 4 or 5 levels of velocity depending on how hard I hit the keys . . . interesting that they'd include velocity-sensitivity but make it so limited ?
Old 26th January 2020 | Show parent
  #761
Anyone know which keyboard stand is being used in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S-IYSQnPb4
Old 10th February 2020 | Show parent
  #762
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason moyer View Post
Anyone know which keyboard stand is being used in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S-IYSQnPb4
Maybe Andertons would know.

It looks similar to one of these:

https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards...Gear4music/WJT

topped with a stack of these:

https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards...ard-Stand/1M9W

- only it doesn't seem to say those can be stacked, but maybe two of these on top of one of those would work:

https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards...rd-Stands/1PWT

They have other candidates for the extensions too:

https://www.gear4music.com/pianos-ke...tands/2nd-tier

Minimum width is going to be a problem with some stands, of course.
Old 10th February 2020 | Show parent
  #763
It's not an x-stand with extensions, though. You can see the central shaft running up the middle, supporting the individual arms.
Old 10th February 2020 | Show parent
  #764
Lives for gear
Yep. This comes closer:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Quik-Lo...-Tier-Stand.gc

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...tand-427856285

I'm not sure if the bottom one is on the actual stand, or on something stood in front of it. I expect 3 tier stands are a lot more common than 4 tier ones.
Old 10th February 2020 | Show parent
  #765
Lives for gear
 
badmark's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Just got a DX. It may be a tad FM for dummies, and I miss the tx81z multitimbral setup, but hey, it's fun and neatly laid out.
Old 10th February 2020
  #766
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
There's a specialized Reface-fitting add-on for the K&M Omega stand.
You can order it at Baloran.
Quite pricey, but works ike a charm.

Cheers,
Bert
Attached Thumbnails
Yamaha Reface.. yes-dsc01250.jpg  
Old 15th August 2020 | Show parent
  #767
Lives for gear
 
soundxplorer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
$299 seems to be the going price for a brand new Reface CS right now. That's a steal for such a great sounding 8 voice VA with built-in keyboard. I find myself using my CS more and more these days, being cooped up in the house but not wanting to sit in the studio all day. It's the perfect couch synth.
Old 16th August 2020 | Show parent
  #768
Lives for gear
 
gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidDisco View Post
Yes, the feedback isnt actual feedback. It’s just a waveform selector for the operators, with 256 waves. You can test this yourself.

Furthermore, as you laid out it has none the dynamics of real feedback.

It’s just more accurate to say that the reface DX has selectable 256 waveforms going from saw to sine to square. I strongly suspect they are hardcoded. Which would incidentally be the most processor efficient thing to do since sample rom isnt an issue in modern days.

You can achieve similar result with feedback, but real feedback can do more and really is a different thing.
This is the first I heard that the saw and square are indexed wavetables .
I have a hard time believing that , it would require more memory
As I have explained in my previous post , I think it is real operator feedback but just routed differently , the feedback amount is not effected by the amp.envelope .
It takes me roughly 2 minutes to implement this flawed desing in my reaktor synth , but why would I , I stil can't believe they made this huge of an error
Old 16th August 2020 | Show parent
  #769
Lives for gear
 
Cake's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundxplorer View Post
$299 seems to be the going price for a brand new Reface CS right now. That's a steal for such a great sounding 8 voice VA with built-in keyboard. I find myself using my CS more and more these days, being cooped up in the house but not wanting to sit in the studio all day. It's the perfect couch synth.

Agreed, my favourite couch synth of all time !
Old 17th August 2020 | Show parent
  #770
Quote:
Originally Posted by krakapow View Post
Has Anyone used it as a controller for omnisphere??
I know this question is months old, but I just got Omnisphere yesterday and tried my Reface CS with it.

It works very well, but since it's not the knobbiest synth there isn't a whole lot of sound design you can do.

It approximates the sound of the Reface as long as you're using saw or square wave oscillators. If you change to Ring Mod or FM it starts behaving differently because the sliders don't have an exact 1:1 mapping with Omnisphere functionality. For example on the Reface hardware, you can get a lot of crazy patches by searching for "sweet spots" with minuscule slider movements, but you won't get the same results with Omnisphere.

One big difference is the LFO's... the Reface has a single LFO, which you can assign to one of 4 different things. With Omnisphere, you can assign each of those things their own LFO. So once you've set an LFO controller the filter, you can set another one controlling the OSC Mod, etc. Then if you slide ASSIGN down to "Off" it clears all 4 LFO's.

Of course you can change the oscillator to be whatever you want in Omnisphere (sample, wavetable, Moog Sub37, etc) and/or change the filter type, and just use the sliders on the Reface to adjust those parameters.

It's a compact, battery-powered Omnisphere controller though which means it certainly has its uses! No MOD wheel though!
Old 6th September 2020
  #771
Uh so I also just discovered you can modulate (via MIDI) the oscillator type and the LFO assignment, in case you're running out of ways to make crazy noises on the Reface CS. I had 2 LFO's and 1 repeating envelope modulating different parameters before my CS just gave up and stopped responding... it recovered after about 10 seconds without needing a reboot though.
Old 6th September 2020 | Show parent
  #772
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
This is the first I heard that the saw and square are indexed wavetables .
I have a hard time believing that , it would require more memory
As I have explained in my previous post , I think it is real operator feedback but just routed differently , the feedback amount is not effected by the amp.envelope .
It takes me roughly 2 minutes to implement this flawed desing in my reaktor synth , but why would I , I stil can't believe they made this huge of an error
The reface was released in 2015, not 1983. You honestly think having 256 microsamples is an issue storage wise? It’s less CPU intensive to approach it that was as well. Which is probably more of a constraint.

Regardless, whether it’s a lookup table or it’s actual feedback routed as you mentioned, it doesnt matter, the result is the same, it becomes a waveform selecter rather than the typical feedback with its associated dynamics.

This does have some benefits btw. You can get a very good stable saw wave out of it with just two operators in manner you cant on say the original DX, and cover quite some of the reface CS ground, also because you can get two of them in detune.

I think on balance what I am starting to miss most with the reface DX is the following two things:

-More polyphony
- dual or tripple timbrality to make performance patches.

Take the V50 for example, it has very rich patches, in some cases using one patch just to make the attack portion, and two detuned patches for the rest. You essentially get performances patches with 8 to 12 operators. Obviously at max 4 chain depth. The V50 even has some 8 voice performance patches (obviously using up a lot of polyphony).

The reface DX wouldnt have become more cumbersome to program if it had a performance mode, as it’s still programming 4 op patches, but would have been way more powerful.

For playing I have found 16 note poly at performance level to be fine for most cases. Most piano pieces you hardly get noticeable note stealing. But at 8 it happens a lot.

I hope we some day get a mark 2 because I like the small form factor a lot.
Old 6th September 2020
  #773
Lives for gear
 
jazzcabbage's Avatar
 
There’s something to be said about the tone of the DX. It’s hard to describe. I have a bunch of vintage Yamaha and modern (MODX) FM synths and for my ears it’s a clean yet warm, not dark but not sterile FM synth. Almost VA’ish. I love making FM bass and pad patches with it. Nice small footprint, and decent keys for what they are. I would also welcome a version 2.0 to expand on it.
Old 14th September 2020 | Show parent
  #774
Gear Head
 
Tomas1808's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Has anyone measured the size of the keys? I just can't tell by looking at pictures. I am particularly interested in the width of the white keys. Thanks!
Old 14th September 2020 | Show parent
  #775
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Cake's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas1808 View Post
Has anyone measured the size of the keys? I just can't tell by looking at pictures. I am particularly interested in the width of the white keys. Thanks!
18.65mm
Old 14th September 2020 | Show parent
  #776
Gear Head
 
Tomas1808's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cake View Post
18.65mm
So quick! Thank you.
Old 1 day ago
  #777
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
So looks like these were discounted again. $300 at major retailers. I recently got a great price on a used one plus sling case.

The case is awesome. The DX is even better. Surprised how useful the speakers are.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #778
Lives for gear
 
cresshead's Avatar
i'd love it if yamaha came out with an FM only synth taken from the MODX line of synths... still multi timbral too, unlike the korg opsix
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