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New product rumour: Everyone is selling off their KorgPoly 61 and poly 800
Old 5th November 2015
  #1
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lu77's Avatar
New product rumour: Everyone is selling off their KorgPoly 61 and poly 800

I'm seeing stacks of these synths appear on the second hand market in Australia lately, and I'm wondering what they know that I don't?

Could Korg have a remake of the Polysix on the horizon?
Old 5th November 2015
  #2
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krushing's Avatar
I'd be more inclined to believe it's more of a result of a lot of beginner synthesists and producers wanting to get into "analog" no matter what in the recent years, and now they're realizing not everything analog sounds like a Minimoog. Or rather both of those synths are the kind of things that look tempting on the surface but - while they have their qualities - aren't quite as amazing as the specs might lead one to believe.

Wouldn't mind a mint Polysix, though
Old 5th November 2015
  #3
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Korg Poly 800. Uuurrggh. Hated that little thing! Do they really have any value these days???
Old 6th November 2015
  #4
Registered User
I would assume they are all broken or about to break, and while they were cool at the time, plugins really do a much better job now ...
Old 6th November 2015
  #5
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NoHo Kid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
plugins really do a much better job now ...
hahaha no
Old 6th November 2015
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHo Kid View Post
hahaha no

hahaha yes

I grew up with 80's poly synths, and my current hardware synth collection includes Moog, Korg, Roland and Novation ... so I do get the "need" for analog synths ...

But seriously - there is a point where the problems and liabilities of vintage hardware vs the vanishingly small improvements in sound quality compared to plugins tip the balance in favor of plugins.

Last edited by Kiwi; 6th November 2015 at 12:56 PM..
Old 6th November 2015
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
hahaha yes

I grew up with 80's poly synths, and my current hardware synth collection includes Moog, Korg, Roland and Novation ... so I do get the "need" for analog synths ...

But seriously - there is a point where the problems and liabilities of vintage hardware vs the vanishingly small improvements in sound quality compared to plugins tip the balance in favor of plugins.
plugins (except for a few like the Roland aria) totally suck and are completely uninspiring...and who said analog has to be vintage?
Old 6th November 2015
  #8
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lu77's Avatar
My polysix recently got a midi upgrade and I love it to pieces along with my sub-37 I don't care how old it is as long as it sounds good.

But there's very few digital "modelling" products I think sound any good. nord's organs, mellotron said etc. are superb.

My first synth was a poly 61 and I can't get rid of it, even though it's a pain to program, it just sounds amazing.

Skip all the FM synthesis, mostly not a fan, skip all the early (bad) virtual analogue. There's good stuff here and there.

But one of the things about digital synthesis is that there are so many options you cannot have a slider, knob or button per function. It's all under the hood, and often accessible only through menu diving. So it's not about the sounds digital synthesis can make, it's about the ability to control it organically.

There has always been a tendency to imitate traditional instrumentation in synths, but digital synths especially so, at first with crap samples and later with slowly improving algorhythms.

The sad thing was that old synthesis methods were temporarily lost, and those sounds were not as easily replicated as some would have you believe. A whole palette of sounds, or instruments, if you like, disappeared off the market. Due to technology and budget, not musical reasons.
Old 6th November 2015
  #9
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I should dust off the polysix I have laying around here and see if it's worth anything
Old 7th November 2015
  #10
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHo Kid View Post
plugins (except for a few like the Roland aria) totally suck and are completely uninspiring...and who said analog has to be vintage?
You are entitled to your wrong opinion.

This thread is about Korg Poly 61 and Poly 800 - the implication is that we are talking about vintage synths, which are allegedly being all being sold off.

I have modern analog - I don't think I could be convinced to buy vintage, mainly because I think they are on the verge of failure due to age, and repairs are very problematic in my country. That's if the IC's and components even exist.

I would probably buy a good Juno 60 for nostaligia sake.

Plugins do not totally suck ... stuff like Diva and Alchemy sound great and are very inspiring. They will only get better.

Some people just know how to use certain tools, and others don't. Can't argue with that.
Old 7th November 2015
  #11
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
I should dust off the polysix I have laying around here and see if it's worth anything
They have certainly gone up in value over the last few years.
You probably want to make sure the battery hasn't leaked everywhere though, which they are prone to do.
Old 7th November 2015
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

There are a few juno 60's/6's on ebay now at not mental prices which is unusual. 303's seem to have got a bit cheaper also.

Just an observation.
Old 7th November 2015
  #13
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ksandvik's Avatar
 

...novelty wears off.
Old 7th November 2015
  #14
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Not really a novelty, this stuff has been around a while.

The tactile feedback you get from riding cutoff, lfo and envelope in real time (along with the basic sound of the thing) will always beat software and drawing lines with auto, imo.
Old 7th November 2015
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraburner View Post
Not really a novelty, this stuff has been around a while.

The tactile feedback you get from riding cutoff, lfo and envelope in real time (along with the basic sound of the thing) will always beat software and drawing lines with auto, imo.
....yes, assuming you don't map those in any SW synth plugin to any decent controller knob via MIDI.
Old 7th November 2015
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Does it feel and sound the same as analog (in need of a service or not) though? Ultimately, no.

Whether anyone cares or not is a different matter..
Old 7th November 2015
  #17
Gear Addict
 

So I really got into synths with my roommate's Ply Six. There's no doubt that that the real thing is better than plugins. Still the guy paid a zillion to have it fully serviced by some amiable servicemen. Then after a short time, more damn problems.

Afterwards went Roland with the Paraphonic then the Jupiter, and the problems were always fixed relativity easily.

All these analog/digital questions are mindnumbing; you know the answer.

And we have people speaking of novelty. Do you guys ever consider that a truly spiritual-organic sound may wipe out all this synth-stuff almost entirely? Of course, such an organic sound would use some sparse analog synthesis.
Old 7th November 2015
  #18
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
There's no doubt that that the real thing is better than plugins.
For who? For me there is zero doubt in my mind that if I had to choose ONLY analog synths or ONLY plugins, I would choose plugins with zero hesitation. Why? Because I use a lot of sampled sounds, and a lot of digital sounds that can only be created digitally.

Most music created since about 1980 owes it's existence to some form of digital technology - and to honest, many of the so-called analog synths we are talking about are more digital than it might appear ... Digital Controlled Oscillators made polyphonic synths happen.

I think there can be confusion and talking at cross purposes here. For example, if I had to choose been a real Moog synth or a plugin emulation of a Moog synth - it's a no brainer. The plugin emulation will be generally inferior - but that's mainly because all the limitations of the real thing have been programmed in on purpose. So those designs inherent all the problems of digital plus all the problems of analog.

But where plugin synths can outperform analog synths is where the don't limit themselves by modeling a particular synth, but exploit the full power of digital and go as far as they can to be something new and different.

That's why I think plugins can and do go far beyond what affordable analog synths can do. That's were you can invoke the expression "for the money" - which sounds like a cop out, but to most musicians money is a problem. So if you can get a lot more power for your dollar, it would be crazy not to do that.

For me - I've owned and still own analog synths, but plugins are the clear winner in bang for buck and in producing exciting new experimental music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex
Do you guys ever consider that a truly spiritual-organic sound may wipe out all this synth-stuff almost entirely? Of course, such an organic sound would use some sparse analog synthesis.
I like to dream too ... but don't exclude digital from being spiritual or organic.

There are amazing sounds in nature that any form of synthesis can only aspire being a fraction of the awesomeness. A real pipe organ is an amazing thing to experience. A choir singing in a natural underground cave is an breathaking sound ...

Digital is our best bet at capturing those real world sounds.

Sparse analog synthesis has been done - it's cool, but organic it is not. To get organic, you need to build in a lot more complexity. That is digital could take us to places that are much more like real natural sounds ... maybe using fractal modeling or physical modeling or any number of mathematical tools.

Nature is far more mathematical/digital than it might seem.

The ergonomics of twisting knobs etc is a separate issue - you could make analog synths that have no knobs, and you could make digital synths with a million knobs - if you wanted to.

But I get that we are attracted to material things for many irrational and emotional reasons. I buy pedals because I like the color ...

I think there is a major element of "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence".

When I was learning electronic music in the 80's I would have killed for the power of modern plugins. Instead, I had to save up hard earned money for mere megabyte of ram, and put up with all sorts of noise and defects and problems with hardware. And often the sounds I were chasing eluded me, because they were made by an elite group of millionaires with Fairlights and Synclaviars and unobtainable digital technology that is now a cheap app.

I'm glad that there are enthusiasts who can afford to repair these vintage analog toys - but i'm much more interested in the new stuff, and especially plugins.
Old 7th November 2015
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
...
Well damn, I wanted to be edgy, but I didn't want to totally piss off my Slutz on a Fri.

Yah digital can make some new things, but, in digital, I would prefer not to use any "emulation," just something new.

I use a lot of samples too, but they are often processed though quite a saturation chain.

Even when I do it digitally, it needs quite a chain of process; there is no single emulator that can do it. In analog, every wire and piece affects the signal somehow, and each sort of digs into the signal differently. So a digital track probably needs quite a chain, each lightly processing the signal.

I definitely use digital to do something new, or I'd rather just use the original-analog, or nothing at all.
Old 7th November 2015
  #20
There is practically a cottage industry of re-amping gear for guitars. I once owned a poly 61. Although I am and have always been a use of analog synths, to me Omnisphere is way more useful and sounds better than a Poly 61 and, if re-amping technology was employed it would probably sound just as analog as a Poly 61. As far I'm concerned the Poly 61 was one of the worst sounding instruments I ever owned. I also recently was given a Poly 800. I gave it back.
Old 7th November 2015
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
There is practically a cottage industry of re-amping gear for guitars. I once owned a poly 61. Although I am and have always been a use of analog synths, to me Omnisphere is way more useful and sounds better than a Poly 61 and, if re-amping technology was employed it would probably sound just as analog as a Poly 61. As far I'm concerned the Poly 61 was one of the worst sounding instruments I ever owned. I also recently was given a Poly 800. I gave it back.
Yah Omnisphere is great and you can amp it, and instead of tape, I'm re-amping my delays.
Old 7th November 2015
  #22
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lu77's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
You are entitled to your wrong opinion.

This thread is about Korg Poly 61 and Poly 800 - the implication is that we are talking about vintage synths, which are allegedly being all being sold off.
Yeah... No... We are talking about two old korgs which I've seen a lot of lately which is unusual. I have seen several junks and Jupiters going overseas as well, and I assume that is partly influenced by the release of the boutiques... Sell old gear in case it drops in value.

I just wondered if anyone had heard a rumour about Korg.

Note no ones been selling their polysix's around my parts.


Quote:
I have modern analog - I don't think I could be convinced to buy vintage, mainly because I think they are on the verge of failure due to age, and repairs are very problematic in my country. That's if the IC's and components even exist.
Have you owned an old synth? I haven't had any trouble with mine. Got them serviced once in 20 years, and got midi added to them recently. The parts needed are readily available on eBay. But I am lucky in that there's a decent synth repairer or two in my town. Though any old to repairer could do it too I would think.

Quote:
Some people just know how to use certain tools, and others don't. Can't argue with that.
Or some people like different things, so why take the bait?

Meanwhile a bunch of people are now drooling over a SOFTSYNTH in a thread about possible new Korg hardware synths....
Old 7th November 2015
  #23
Registered User
I'll be very interested in new Korg hardware, unless it has farkin mini keys on it. <snip - no> we have have real fingers and want to use them ...

Last edited by psycho_monkey; 8th November 2015 at 11:53 PM..
Old 8th November 2015
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHo Kid View Post
and some people ears aren't good enough to tell the difference
I suppose that was intended as a low blow dig ... respect.

This thread is about why (allegedly) people are ditching 40 year old hardware. Surely the major advancements (if not superiority) of plugins has to be a relevant factor.

Having owned or used a lot of vintage hardware over the years, i'm not as starry eyed as perhaps kids who have only grown up with stolen software for comparison.

I guess it's hard to value something you've stolen, or to even appreciate how good software can be. Especially if you don't spend the money of decent D/A converters and monitors so you can actually make a realistic comparision.

I currently own Moog and other analog synths for a reason: I can tell a difference. But I also know that in a mix, very few people would give a damn - and I have a taste for some digital sounds that could never be recreated with analog anyway.

It's all good. Which is why I find it offensive when people try to state categorically that all plugins suck. It is simply juvenile delusional trolling.

Just man up and admit that there is good analog and good digital, as well as bad analog and bad digital.

I won't be purchasing any vintage analog gear in the near future.
Old 8th November 2015
  #25
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lu77's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
I suppose that was intended as a low blow dig ... respect.

This thread is about why (allegedly) people are ditching 40 year old hardware. Surely the major advancements (if not superiority) of plugins has to be a relevant factor.
Ok man. You clearly have an agenda but it absolutely doesn't match what this thread is about, you've been told repeatedly.

Quote:
Having owned or used a lot of vintage hardware over the years, i'm not as starry eyed as perhaps kids who have only grown up with stolen software for comparison.
Well you spent all yesterday talking like you'd never own any vintage gear because you live in a backwater, couldn't get it serviced and it would be too high maintenance. In fact your moogs will be equal in maintenance to the early 80s korgs. They're not high maintenance beasts, they're pretty stable.

And don't make bull crap remarks that you'd have to be a teenager and a theif to want vintage gear. Seriously poor form man. THAT is juvenile delusional trolling.

Never mind the fact that after going ON AND ON about how softsynths are the bees knees and anyone would be a fool to buy analogue, you've now said you own a Moog, and that of course a SOFTSYNTH will NEVER match it.

You're all over the place for someone trying to make a strong statement, your statement seems to be "I'm the only one right, until you prove me wrong, then I'll change my story claim I'm right again and again be proven wrong"

I don't even know why you're here.

No one would tell a Moog from a SOFTSYNTH in a mix, but you still bought one... Maybe that tells you something?

Quote:
Just man up and admit that there is good analog and good digital, as well as bad analog and bad digital.
The only thing you've said that makes any sense, though what someone's manliness has to do with it I do not know.

Quote:
I won't be purchasing any vintage analog gear in the near future.
If only the same could be said for you hijacking threads on this forum.

I guess all vintage analogue must be BAD then, cos you said so. There. We've been told.
Old 8th November 2015
  #26
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by lu77 View Post
Ok man. You clearly have an agenda but it absolutely doesn't match what this thread is about, you've been told repeatedly.



Well you spent all yesterday talking like you'd never own any vintage gear because you live in a backwater, couldn't get it serviced and it would be too high maintenance. In fact your moogs will be equal in maintenance to the early 80s korgs. They're not high maintenance beasts, they're pretty stable.

And don't make bull crap remarks that you'd have to be a teenager and a theif to want vintage gear. Seriously poor form man. THAT is juvenile delusional trolling.

Never mind the fact that after going ON AND ON about how softsynths are the bees knees and anyone would be a fool to buy analogue, you've now said you own a Moog, and that of course a SOFTSYNTH will NEVER match it.

You're all over the place for someone trying to make a strong statement, your statement seems to be "I'm the only one right, until you prove me wrong, then I'll change my story claim I'm right again and again be proven wrong"

I don't even know why you're here.

No one would tell a Moog from a SOFTSYNTH in a mix, but you still bought one... Maybe that tells you something?



The only thing you've said that makes any sense, though what someone's manliness has to do with it I do not know.


If only the same could be said for you hijacking threads on this forum.

I guess all vintage analogue must be BAD then, cos you said so. There. We've been told.
The only agenda i have is in disagreeing with people who are rude and make nonsensical statements such as "all plugins are crap".

This thread was about why people might be selling their old analog synths.

This thread is not about you and your ego - so I won't dignify your emotional outburst with any more responses.
Old 8th November 2015
  #27
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraburner View Post

The tactile feedback you get from riding cutoff, lfo and envelope in real time (along with the basic sound of the thing) will always beat software and drawing lines with auto, imo.
How many knobs are there again on a Poly 800? Oh, right.

Also, seriously - you've never heard of controller keyboards? They've got more sliders and knobs than a Poly-61, too. You honestly think everyone draws lines and clicks in notes? I mean, I don't care what you like better, I just think it's dishonest to pretend there are no controllers.

Tactile feedback is a non-starter on these machines. Same for a JX8P, JX3P, Alpha Juno, etc. (without the programmer that costs as much as the device itself)

To answer the OP: the market is rarely rational and if there were rumours about that, the chances of a dozen people knowing something that the hive mind of Gearslutz would not is pretty negligible. Poly 800's are just pretty terrible if you are looking for fat warm tweakable analog.

Last edited by Yoozer; 8th November 2015 at 11:16 AM..
Old 8th November 2015
  #28
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Coorec's Avatar
There is this sentence of the Virus designer at Access that doesnt go out of my head since i heard it.

He said: "If digital recording of analog signals is good enough then digital generation can be good enough as well."

Wether one likes digital emulations or not, is up to oneself of course. The haptic part of knobs, faders and so on plays a role too. So does price.

So digital emulations like the Roland ACB stuff that grants both a good enough emulation and the haptic experience is probably the future of things. Especially now that original synths from the 70's are aging to failure repeatedly.

If Korg would come up with something new emulating their own past, like Roland does, then it would be very nice. It wouldnt matter to me if digital or analog recreation, as long it is good enough.

Old 8th November 2015
  #29
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lu77's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
ppTo answer the OP: the market is rarely rational and if there were rumours about that, the chances of a dozen people knowing something that the hive mind of Gearslutz would not is pretty negligible. Poly 800's are just pretty terrible if you are looking for fat warm tweakable analog.
Yeah but I think I've seen one poly 800 in five years and I've just seen 5 in two months. Plus 4 poly61s.

I agree it's unlikely that they know something gearslutz don't. Hence I asked. But it's still odd. Maybe the jp-08 is their answer, or maybe Christmas is coming and people need to downsize for cash. Or maybe people are trying to pool together enough cash for a prophet 6.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a crystal ball though? Know what was or wasn't coming out at 2016 NAMM and messe's, and be able to make intelligent planned decisions.

This is where the "limited" Roland boutique range undoes that, if you don't buy now, you'll miss out, which... Is pretty manipulative, but it worked on me.
Old 8th November 2015
  #30
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Yoozer's Avatar
I'm not a fan of the "limited edition" stuff of the boutique range. The message it sends is "we are not going to do anything like it anymore anyway", or "buy now, if it does well we will release something bigger".

I doubt whether it had an effect on sales. Just build as many as you can sell and if a bigger JP08 materializes, present this as the budget version.
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