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Roland Boutique - Three new Roland synth products?? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 17th September 2015
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
Yes it is!
Isn't!
Old 17th September 2015
  #392
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Gnalvl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Captain View Post
Ok, DUDE. You seem to be a bit angry here.
No, I'm not angry - if anything I've just become impatient with YOUR nonsensical protests to my discussion. You quoted a post not even directed at you only to instigate a blathering, in-specific argument with no real points.

It's quite obvious you don't actually have a counter-point to anything I'm saying, and have resorting to simply arguing because you don't like what I'm saying. Because you don't actually know what your points are, every time I shut down your weak assertions, you just escalate with more blather, and the fact that I can see through it comes across as "anger" when it's just reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Captain View Post
I really don't get this venom about Roland's marketing. They are creating interest in a product without giving any information other than some vague pics and references to past products. So what. We are all here talking about it, are we not?
Dude, PAY ATTENTION TO THE CONVERSATION, because we've BEEN THROUGH THIS. The venom at this point has nothing to with Roland really, and everything to do with the fact that you keep extending this debate even though you don't have a point. Let me walk you through events thus far:

1) Roland releases a video with no info, in order to make people speculate

2) People on GS speculate, because this is what Roland intended

3) Roland defenders like DFourV criticize speculators for speculating, even though this is exactly what Roland intended

4) Gnalvl points out that Roland deserves the speculation, because this is what they intended

5) Space Captain argues this point for no real reason besides "I like Roland"

6) Gnalvl re-explains how Roland invited speculation, and Space Captain keeps choosing different irrelevant blather to extend the debate until the best retort he can muster is "u mad bro?"


The venom with Roland's uninformative teaser has ENTIRELY to do with the fact that people like you are criticizing the speculative reaction to it, even though that speculative reaction is EXACTLY what Roland's marketing intended to trigger.

You cannot simultaneously defend Roland's uninformative marketing and then blame people for reacting in the exact way that their uninformative marketing was designed to make them react. That self-defeating cyclical logic is exactly what is causing the issue here.

If you are unable or willing to refute the basic fact that Roland's uninformative announcement creates an uninformed consumer prone to speculation, then you have no other issue or point to argue with me. So stop trying to derail this with different brands of your irrelevant logical fallacies and cyclical blathering,
<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>

Last edited by Reptil; 18th September 2015 at 07:19 AM.. Reason: -
Old 17th September 2015
  #393
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Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lectrojape View Post
Isn't!
It's behind you.
Old 17th September 2015
  #394
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R3Member's Avatar
Reading this thread is almost like being stuck in a room full of Star Wars nerds complaining about the new trailers somehow not giving away the entire plot of the movie.
Old 17th September 2015
  #395
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangepange View Post
Official top selling synth category stats from Thomann:
  1. Korg Volca Beats
  2. Korg Electribe Sampler
  3. Teenage Engineering PO-12 rhythm
  4. Akai Rhythm Wolf
  5. Korg Volca Bass
  6. Korg Monotron Delay
  7. Korg microKORG
  8. Roland TR-8
  9. Novation Bass Station II
  10. Korg Volca Keys
  11. Singular Sound BeatBuddy
  12. Elektron Analog Rytm
  13. Korg Volca Beats Bundle
  14. Korg Volca Sample
  15. Boss RC-505
  16. Korg pro MS-20 mini
  17. Korg Volca Bass Bundle
  18. Arturia Microbrute
  19. Novation Ultranova
  20. Roland TB-3

19 of 20 are below 500 euro.
I thought it would be interesting to compare the European market with the U.S. market, so here is Sweewater's top 20 most popular selling synths in the U.S.:
  1. Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition Analog Synthesizer

  2. Sequential Prophet-6 6-Voice Polyphonic Analog Synthesizer

  3. Roland JD-Xi

  4. Novation MoroderNova Limited Edition Synthesizer

  5. Moog Minitaur Analog Bass Synthesizer

  6. Roland JD-XA Analog/Digital Crossover Synthesizer

  7. ARP Odyssey Analog Synthesizer - Whiteface Limited Edition
  8. 
Roland Integra-7 Synthesizer Module

  9. Korg Volca Bass Analog Bass Synth Module and Sequencer

  10. Roland System-1m Plug-out Synthesizer

  11. Roland GAIA SH-01

  12. Korg TRITON taktile-49

  13. Moog Werkstatt-01 - Analog Synthesizer Kit
  14. 
Elektron Analog Four 4-voice Analog Synthesizer with Sequencer

  15. Korg SQ-1 Step Sequencer

  16. Korg MS-20 Mini Semi-modular Analog Synthesizer

  17. Korg Volca Sample Digital Sample Sequencer

  18. Roland V-Combo VR-09 61-key Stage Performance Keyboard

  19. Roland TB-3 Touch Bassline

  20. Korg Volca Keys Analog Loop Synthesizer

Yay, no Rhythm Wolf! We know better...
9 out of 20 are over $500 U.S. with 6 of those at or above $1000
Old 17th September 2015
  #396
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fusionid's Avatar
 

Merica 1 Europa 0
Old 17th September 2015
  #397
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APHELEON's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by redloheb View Post
Let's go to the Novation thread. At least they have one successful true analog synth over last years.


Sheeeeiiiiiiiit




Quote:
Originally Posted by F5D View Post
More analog JD-XA sounds: https://soundcloud.com/f5d/f5d-jdxa-take2
Some internal fx were used also, but mostly external delay and reverb. The last sound has also a digital part in the mix.
Old 17th September 2015
  #398
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
No, I'm not angry - if anything I've just become impatient with YOUR nonsensical protests to my discussion. You quoted a post not even directed at you only to instigate a blathering, in-specific argument with no real points.

It's quite obvious you don't actually have a counter-point to anything I'm saying, and have resorting to simply arguing because you don't like what I'm saying. Because you don't actually know what your points are, every time I shut down your weak assertions, you just escalate with more blather, and the fact that I can see through it comes across as "anger" when it's just reality.



Dude, PAY ATTENTION TO THE CONVERSATION, because we've BEEN THROUGH THIS. The venom at this point has nothing to with Roland really, and everything to do with the fact that you keep extending this debate even though you don't have a point. Let me walk you through events thus far:

1) Roland releases a video with no info, in order to make people speculate

2) People on GS speculate, because this is what Roland intended

3) Roland defenders like DFourV criticize speculators for speculating, even though this is exactly what Roland intended

4) Gnalvl points out that Roland deserves the speculation, because this is what they intended

5) Space Captain argues this point for no real reason besides "I like Roland"

6) Gnalvl re-explains how Roland invited speculation, and Space Captain keeps choosing different irrelevant blather to extend the debate until the best retort he can muster is "u mad bro?"


The venom with Roland's uninformative teaser has ENTIRELY to do with the fact that people like you are criticizing the speculative reaction to it, even though that speculative reaction is EXACTLY what Roland's marketing intended to trigger.

You cannot simultaneously defend Roland's uninformative marketing and then blame people for reacting in the exact way that their uninformative marketing was designed to make them react. That self-defeating cyclical logic is exactly what is causing the issue here.

If you are unable or willing to refute the basic fact that Roland's uninformative announcement creates an uninformed consumer prone to speculation, then you have no other issue or point to argue with me. So stop trying to derail this with different brands of your irrelevant logical fallacies and cyclical blathering,
<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>

<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>

Last edited by Reptil; 18th September 2015 at 07:18 AM.. Reason: -
Old 17th September 2015
  #399
Gear Maniac
 

Guys, they're just synthesizers okay? Goes beep-de-boop like the rest of 'em.
Old 17th September 2015
  #400
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shabbyroad's Avatar
I just jumped to this last page to find out some info and uhh.....

Just wow.
Old 17th September 2015
  #401
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Gnalvl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Captain View Post

<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>

<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>


After all this, can you muster any refutation of the basic fact that Roland invited the exact speculation going on in this thread?

No.

And that's what it was all about. So how you can even pretend that any of your arguing was justified?


<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>

Last edited by Reptil; 18th September 2015 at 07:20 AM.. Reason: -
Old 17th September 2015
  #402
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by STRL View Post
Guys, they're just synthesizers okay? Goes beep-de-boop like the rest of 'em.
Yes, but can it go boop-de-beep? Hopefully a firmware update can fix that.
Old 17th September 2015
  #403
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patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

I'm knitting and cooking and am very pissed off at the moment!
Old 17th September 2015
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
I'm knitting and cooking and am very pissed off at the moment!
Old 17th September 2015
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
Quite frankly, we all deserve an apology
No we don't and you don't either. Just stop.

When are we supposed to hear more about these synths? I'm about to spend $250 on something else I need but don't really want. I'd rather put the $250 to something I want but don't really need (a new mini Roland synth).
Old 18th September 2015
  #406
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Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
I'm knitting and cooking and am very pissed off at the moment!
Class post
Old 18th September 2015
  #407
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redloheb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
I thought it would be interesting to compare the European market with the U.S. market, so here is Sweewater's top 20 most popular selling synths in the U.S.:
  1. Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition Analog Synthesizer

  2. Sequential Prophet-6 6-Voice Polyphonic Analog Synthesizer

  3. Roland JD-Xi

  4. Novation MoroderNova Limited Edition Synthesizer

  5. Moog Minitaur Analog Bass Synthesizer

  6. Roland JD-XA Analog/Digital Crossover Synthesizer

  7. ARP Odyssey Analog Synthesizer - Whiteface Limited Edition
  8. 
Roland Integra-7 Synthesizer Module

  9. Korg Volca Bass Analog Bass Synth Module and Sequencer

  10. Roland System-1m Plug-out Synthesizer

  11. Roland GAIA SH-01

  12. Korg TRITON taktile-49

  13. Moog Werkstatt-01 - Analog Synthesizer Kit
  14. 
Elektron Analog Four 4-voice Analog Synthesizer with Sequencer

  15. Korg SQ-1 Step Sequencer

  16. Korg MS-20 Mini Semi-modular Analog Synthesizer

  17. Korg Volca Sample Digital Sample Sequencer

  18. Roland V-Combo VR-09 61-key Stage Performance Keyboard

  19. Roland TB-3 Touch Bassline

  20. Korg Volca Keys Analog Loop Synthesizer
THIS IS NOT TRUE.

This is "most popular" list of http://www.sweetwater.com/c510--Synths_Modules
Not a top sales.

Last edited by redloheb; 18th September 2015 at 12:11 AM.. Reason: Smartpants on
Old 18th September 2015
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
I'm knitting and cooking and am very pissed off at the moment!
Hahaha!!
Old 18th September 2015
  #409
Quote:
Originally Posted by redloheb View Post
THIS IS NOT TRUE.

It's "most popular" list of Synths / Modules | Sweetwater.com
Not a top sales.
Sweetwater's most Popular list (which is what I had stated) is their most Popular Selling. At least that's what we always understood when I worked for M-Audio, Ableton, etc. How else would they gauge what is "most popular"? They're not taking opinion polls, it's based on their sales, just like Thomann's list.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity; just to see if maybe they have changed their policy on the way they judge their most popular category, I just now called Sweewater and asked them... and yes, their most popular list is their most Popular Selling synths in order of number of units sold. So the list I posted is true and valid.

People really need to use some common sense here on these forums instead of constantly lashing out to pick a fight (and I know critical thinking skills would be way too much to ask!)

Last edited by genshi; 18th September 2015 at 12:22 AM.. Reason: Additional Info
Old 18th September 2015
  #410
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Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
Yes, but can it go boop-de-beep? Hopefully a firmware update can fix that.
From Roland? A firmware update?
Old 18th September 2015
  #411
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redloheb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Sweetwater's most Popular list (which is what I had stated) is their most Popular Selling.
That looks like wrong statement. Usually 'most popular' list is what company is desiring to sell faster: it as it appears on top of the list. Been in online retail, done that.

Nobody in world would believe that Moog Sub 37 outsell sub 500 category.
Old 18th September 2015
  #412
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post

<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>


After all this, can you muster any refutation of the basic fact that Roland invited the exact speculation going on in this thread?

No.

And that's what it was all about. So how you can even pretend that any of your arguing was justified?


<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>
Give it a rest okay.
<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>
You started of your thread with this:

"In other words, they are deliberately spreading disinformation about their own product"

So what exactly are Roland lying to us about? Read the definition of "disinformation".

I was simply responding to a false statement. And this nonsense about them inviting speculation. This is what marketing is supposed to do before a product is out. We are all talking about it, aren't we?

Some of us choose to make sh*t up and others hedge our bets and wait until we've tried something before we comment. I have said nothing about these new products because I don't know anything other than what has been posted and what I can guess at based on my knowledge of product development, insider info, and common sense based on market realities.

If speculation bothers you so much then don't read GS. This is what people do here.

Last edited by Reptil; 18th September 2015 at 07:22 AM.. Reason: -
Old 18th September 2015
  #413
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Sweetwater's most Popular list (which is what I had stated) is their most Popular Selling. At least that's what we always understood when I worked for M-Audio, Ableton, etc. How else would they gauge what is "most popular"? They're not taking opinion polls, it's based on their sales, just like Thomann's list.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity; just to see if maybe they have changed their policy on the way they judge their most popular category, I just now called Sweewater and asked... and yes, their most popular list is their most Popular Selling synths in order of number of units sold. So the list I posted is true and valid.
This matches fairly well with info I have as well. The Sub37 is a great synth and I know a bunch of people that bought one including myself. First Moog and an impressive one at that.

I can also see the Prophet selling based in desire for old Prophet 5's which are way too expensive right now.

The sub $500 market is a growing market right now. Musicians and wannabe musicians don't have the money to spend like they used to and are looking for much lower price points. This is why I expect these new Boutique things will be below $500. Roland already has the Jd-Xa for their high end synthesis tools.
Old 18th September 2015
  #414
Quote:
Originally Posted by redloheb View Post
That looks like wrong statement. Usually 'most popular' list is what company is desiring to sell faster: it as it appears on top of the list. Been in online retail, done that.

Nobody in world would believe that Moog Sub 37 outsell sub 500 category.

But you're the one who is wrong actually.

And yes, the Moog Sub 37 is the most popular synth in terms of Sweetwater's sales; and amongst my many synth nerd friends both in L.A. and in Portland. Their [Sweetwater] customers buy the Sub 37 more than any other synth, don't know why that's so hard to believe. But I also looked at Guitar Center's most popular (which I know are not based on sales) and they have two models of the Moog Voyager XL in their top 8! I doubt that's their biggest selling keyboards.

Again, I worked in this industry, originally in Pro Audio sales, then for the Manufacturers. And I still have close friends that work for Native Instruments, Ableton, Propellerheads, Roland, Korg, Moog and several Eurorack companies...
Old 18th September 2015
  #415
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I just purchased a new Tb 303 for $600 aud - its called the tt 303 and it sounds amazing. I just wish cylonic would release a 606 or 808
I wonder how many tt 303s are in the wild
Given the volca bass and beats stats - Roland missed the market push again
hoping for a cool jp8 aira though. I will run it through my bs2 filters
Old 18th September 2015
  #416
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redloheb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
And yes, the Moog is the most popular synth in terms of sales at least amongst my synth nerd friends both in L.A. and in Portland. But this is Sweetwater's sales.
No, I'm not. It's popular and Prophet-6 is even more popular, but it doesn't make them both even in top 10. They are just too expensive.
It's almost like BMW outsell Toyota 5 times. Not in this world.
Old 18th September 2015
  #417
Quote:
Originally Posted by redloheb View Post
No, I'm not. It's popular and Prophet-6 is even more popular, but it doesn't make them both even in top 10. They are just too expensive.
It's almost like BMW outsell Toyota 5 times. Not in this world.

<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>
again, you are just trying to pick a fight. Just because something is expensive to you, don't mean it's impossible for it to be the most popular. It's all about the demographics, that's why I showed this comparison to Europe, because I knew they would be different because when I worked for M-Audio as an example, we had some things that were more popular here (like the Project Mix I/O and the Sputnik mic, our two most expensive items) and things that were more popular in Europe (Midisport 2x2.)

And nowhere did I say the Moog Sub 37 is selling 5 times more than everything else! WTF? It may have just sold one more unit more than the next thing on the list, and so on and so on.

You want car analogies, one of the best selling cars in the U.S that is out selling even BMW, is the Tesla... in certain markets. It's expensive and they did it with no advertising, just word of mouth.

This is ridiculous arguing this with you. I posted facts, confirmed them with the source themselves, and your feeble little mind just can't comprehend it because "teh money!"

Last edited by Reptil; 18th September 2015 at 07:22 AM.. Reason: -
Old 18th September 2015
  #418
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Blackbelt Jones's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by redloheb View Post

Nobody in world would believe that Moog Sub 37 outsell sub 500 category.
That seems to make totally logical sense, but when I was in the market for one this spring they were sold out @ several reputable resellers in the U.S. I talked to my Sweetwater rep and asked WTF and he said that they basically sold as fast as they got them in. It really surprised me. I think the 37 has been a monster for them.

Can't speak to the validity of the list but I always got the sense from the music store reps I BSed with that the average buyer of synth gear was in their 30s and up with didposable income. The younger folks gravitated towards software, controllers and DJ gear I have been told. Maybe it's different in the EU.

The list doesn't seem totally unreasonable as its basically a lot of stuff old dudes with money would buy with some budget gear thrown in for good measure.

But who really knows... they could they be cooking the books to push product like you suggest or it could be legit. Either way I am just happy to see the Rhytm Wolf is not on that list...
Old 18th September 2015
  #419
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roland4387 View Post
Yes, happens more than you'd think in S. Korea and Taiwan. Google it, lots of fun stuff on them.
oh yes if you have not enjoyed watching parliament in your own countries or even others you have not enjoyed one of life's great pleasures, I watch Question time here in Australia on a daily basis, basically the parties file in and sit in their areas and the speaker calls time on and they all start bitching and fighting and arguing all day, some of the zingers are just hilarious, seriously it's one of the best hours of fun you can have every day..
Old 18th September 2015
  #420
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redloheb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post

<moderator edit - keep it friendly - no personal attacks!>
Just because something is expensive to you, don't mean it's impossible for it to be the most popular.
Ok, I'm not replying funny personal insults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
It's all about the demographic
Do you have sweetwater demographic data to begin with? :D How many kids, how many adults etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
And nowhere did I say the Moog Sub 37 is selling 5 times more than everything else! WTF? It may have just sold one more unit more than the next thing on the list, and so one and so on.:
Tou're saying that Sub37 selling #1 and Volka is #20 in sweetwater. It's exactly couple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
You want car analogies, one of the best selling cars in the U.S that is out selling BMW, is the Tesla, in certain markets....
Tesla sells ten to twenty thousands per year, BMW sell two millions.
Even in most expensive places where most of rich people live Tesla is not outselling BMW in absolute numbers. And we're talking here about absolute numbers. And my car anology seems to be absolutely correct.

Last edited by Reptil; 18th September 2015 at 07:23 AM.. Reason: -
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