Hey y'all, I make experimental, psychedelic deep bass music, where complex textures, fx and bass are priority rather than more traditional synth leads, and I am getting my first (!) hardware synth.
I pose a question to the board: shall I get a DSI Mopho x4, or save big $ and get a minibrute or novation bass station II?
I know the differences of the synths and have done my research, so I'm just looking for feedback. No need to point out these are both mono vs. the x4.
I know I would work well with the cheaper brute or bass station, and 'get the job done', but I have a feeling that getting a DSI would give me an instrument that would never get old & a sound to match. Would I feel like I was missing out or "settling" if I go the Brute or Bass Station? Thanks.

...I'm also aware of the fact that if I'm willing to shell out for a DSI, I probably should ;

The Brute and BSII are nice synths, but have nowhere near the modulation possibilities of the DSI's. Like you said, for fx and textural type stuff you're gonna want the four LFO's and crazy modulation matrix. A third envelope never hurts either.

Now, whether you want one or four voices depends on whether you need to do any pads or strings. If $ is tight, its not the end of the world to multitrack some chord stabs or sample the Mopho and play pads that way. I do it all the time with my Monoevolver. Even though I have other polys nothing really sounds like it. Sample a note, and do some key tracked vibrato or pitch mod in your sampler.....no one will know.

Right, so you are pointing out that I could save some money and get a Mopho keys mono. I think its worth it to have the extra voices though, for me, though I'm certainly not above multitracking I will probably do it anyway with the x4. I guess I'm just looking for a second opinion to back me up that if I settle for something less than the DSI, like a brute or BSII, I will have fun but still be dreaming of the x4..

I have been kicking around the idea of getting a Mopho x4 too. I figure now that I have a Virus TI Polar to handle my digital needs, the Mopho x4 would cover both the bass and the poly analog. My question is whether the modulation matrix is more rudimentary than the P8's. I would look into a desktop P8, but then I would miss the sub-oscillators that are so nice for thickening things up, especially on the bass. One way or another, I feel like the time is right for me to check out Dave Smith's stuff up close.

ETA: It looks like the P8's envelopes loop while the Mopho's don't. If anyone can confirm this, I would appreciate it.

agreed, for me the 2 sub osc on the x4 makes it stand far above all else (that I'm aware of). that, and how the DSI stuff sounds is amazing. I'm going to check them out in person this week, very excited.

I'm envious. I live too far from a music shop to try one out. I will probably buy one to see how I like it.

well, i am driving 2 hours to the shop! but its going to be worth it
question: what makes the virus so great? im just beginning my research into it. thnks

On a board full of Virus masters, I am probably not the guy to ask--being noob to it and all--but is extremely powerful, defines the sound of a number of electronic musical genres, and integrates pretty well with your Digital Audio Workstation as a plug-in. Mine is not the TI2, which has greater DSP power, but it is still a beast and sounds lovely. Besides, I got mine for a fairly reasonable price, much less than a new Mopho x4, so I am happy.

ok yeah i get it, thanks!

Mopho x4 is underrated I think.

Analog Four / Analog Keys by Elektron may also be up your alley. The sequencer with parameter locks will definitely assist in making things deeper, weirder, and more complex. The feedback oscillators in particular are exciting for experimental stuff.
And with the neighbor oscillators, you could have one massive mono voice with 5 OSCs (plus SUBs) four overdrive circuits, and loads of modulation, with up to 128 different parameters altered per step thanks to the sequencer.

Dual filters makes it a bit better for carving things out with precision than the Mopho/Tetra.

Hell, just typing this has me reaching for my A4 to get busy with the weird.

A hard gearslut lesson to learn is not getting what you want, and regretting it. Then you're selling two or three things to get what you were after in the first place. There is only one way to truly know, and it ain't reading threads here. Just get it.

Personally, I don't like the four voice poly deal. I feel like six is pushing it, and eight or more is preferable. That said, I have two six voice DCO's cuz I like the sound. I'm a sucker for huge pads so if you're doing big pads.....maybe consider a 2nd hand P08? Otherwise, enjoy your Mopho x4.

I see what you are saying, but the sad truth is that sometimes there's no money in the bank for what you really want. Also, I have to be convinced that it really is that much better. In the case of the Prophet 8, I'm not. I am eager to be convinced otherwise, but I could polychain a Mopho x4 and a Tetra to get a thicker sound than I could with the Prophet 8.

I love my X4! I use it along with a Nord Electro (73-key) for playing live (jazz mostly). So I don't play it 2-handed. But even so, there are times when five voices would be nice. Whenever I finish making sounds for it, I'll polychain it with my Mopho desktop.

X4 is a lot of fun to program, a great synth for the $ IMHO!

Having owned a Mopho X4, I don't think it's worth it. Its sound is just too limited for the price...it doesn't actually sound as good as it looks on paper. For just bass it's fine, but anything outside of that and it gets really thin. If you want really full-sounding, melodic keys, leads, or pads you will be really disappointed...comparing side by side, the Alpha Juno at a fraction of the price sounds better, even with the chorus turned off!

I also think as a "noise monster" kind of synth it's just lacking in options. The feedback is not as noisy as the Minibrute's metalizer/brutalizer combo, and the "audio mod" filter FM just doesn't do much. You may have a huge mod matrix, yet it doesn't actually feel like there's much worth modulating.

In short, it does accomplish the "bass" portion of the sound you are interested in, but not really the "FX" or "complex textures" part. IMO a synth that only does bass really should be half or a quarter of the price of what the Mopho X4 goes for (the Tetra would be ok for this, if you have an external programmer.) Otherwise, the Prophet 600 and Prophet 8 racks should give you more for your 1000 bucks. I would also consider saving up for an MKS-80 or Prophet 12.

The prices for DSI gear is insane here in Oz at the moment. I got my Mopho X4 for AUD $1400 which felt like a premium price, but now they cost AUD $2000. I like the sound a lot more the Juno 106 it replaced, and I polychain mine so have extra voices. But $2000 is a lot for one.

Not sure what people are trying to do who can't seem to make it sound good. Most of the X4 presets are based on obnoxious saw waves, I can only imagine folks are not delving deeper and starting their patches with the square or other waves. It will do sweet sounds, and is it definitely not thin unless you program it to sound thin.

The sequencer allows you to create complex textures, I think the Mopho Desktop and Mopho Keys presets make better use of it because they are mono synths. You can do the same with the X4 though.

It's been said but a 4 voice poly can be turned into an 8 voice in the time it takes to hold or sequence a few notes, you just need a computer or sampler, that's if you need so many voices.

Same for the mono synths, I'm often spending time creating my own Maschine instruments made of samples of brutes, arp and ms20, all my favourite mono patches are now poly. And big as hell. And ultimately very very versatile.

Going to the op though, based on your music I feel you're likely to get more from a virus than the x4.

That is a big jump, wtf. Hundred here and there is normal throughout a season or year, but near on a 45% hike is unbelievable.

That's a pretty bad limitation if it just doesn't sound good with saw waves, but I know that's not the issue as coming from the Alpha Juno I was dropping PWM in almost every patch. And you know what? For anything outside basses, the Alpha Juno's single oscillator with chorus turned off sounded fatter. For that matter, so did a lot of softsynths. It's like the Mopho X4's oscillators shrivel up and hide when you try to do pads, keys, or basically anything that's not an angry bass. I spent hours in the mod matrix trying to make "evolving" sounds, and even though the modulation brought some curious details, the basic tone of everything was still thin, reedy, and generally ass-sounding.

I sold it and got an MKS-80 and magically everything that was sounding ****ty on the Mopho X4 sounded amazing on the MKS-80, regardless of whether I was using 4x saw waves, or what kind of patch I was making. Plus, the MKS-80's bass is better anyway. Why spend 1000 on a "polysynth" that can only do bass, when you could spend 500 more for one that does everything, with better bass, twice the polyphony, multitimbrality, cross mod, etc?

The Mopho X4 is trying to be a true polysynth and it's really more like a budget monosynth with extra voices. This was fine at the Tetra's price point, but at the Mopho X4's price point it just doesn't make sense anymore. Even if you only need 4 voices, a P08 or MKS-80 running in dual mode will sound way better, because you're getting 4 superior, real oscillators instead of 2 weak oscillators plus their fake sub oscillators.

The Mopho's keyboard isn't even that great...it's not bad, but not as good as vintage synths that costs a fraction of the Mopho X4. The interface also requires a lot of tabbing between different oscillators and envelopes compared to a real Prophet. Sure, it's better than the Tetra, but its still as slow as using a Novation Ultranova, which given it has only 8 knobs, it kinda sad given what you paid.

All in all it just doesn't make sense as a purchase at a second hand price equal to a P08 rack, Prophet 600, Polysix, Akai AX, and even some Juno-60's.

wow, thanks for all the info guys, i really appreciate it. not being able to play with anything in person here in my area, i really want to make the right choice for a first synth.

mopho X4 is amazing.

..without too much trouble, could you possibly explain the advantage you feel the Virus may hold in the realm of making complex, psychedelic music? I know we have all heard the virus line is "good for psy/trance" ..but why, exactly? Is it due to the many complex features that can be all run simultaneously? Does digital offer an advantage over analogue in this sense? I am mainly concerned with quality of sound, as that is one thing that fx and programming can not necessarily make up for, and naturally that has me thinking analogue, though for psytrance (not typical stuff, think Zenon records, etc) and general intelligent complex psy bass music. btw thanks in advance lol
edit: just 5 minutes of research already has me wanting a Ti Snow. I can't really afford the jump up to a keys model.

wow the analog 4/keys DOES look prettty amazing. anyone have experience comparing this to the capabilities of a virus?
" 4 voices
2x sub-oscillators per voice
2x analog oscillators per voice
2x analog filters per voice
1x analog overdrive circuit per voice
1x amp envelope per voice
2x assignable envelopes per voice
2x LFOs per voice

6 track Elektron sequencer (4 internal, 1 CV/Gate, 1 FX)
37 key semi-weighed keyboard with aftertouch
Assignable joystick
6x arpeggiators
Reverb, delay, chorus send FX
Polyphonic, unison, multitimbral functionality
Massive storage space
3 year Elektron warranty "

all that does look pretty impressive on paper. I feel like getting something like that you couldn't really go wrong.

I agree, love my Virus Ti, its definitely a workhorse synth as opposed to the mopho's /Moogs which are more specialized. But its a VA, and for some people software would do just as good a job.

I'm kinda liking the shift towards choosing to use analog poly synths again (or sampling cheap mono's like you mentioned) instead of VA's. Its very old school and I definitely support it when ppl seem to want to go that way.

Looks like you're already making a decision :-)

A virus for psy, atmospheric, movement pads etc will just win by a mile. They aren't shy in sound because they are digital, that's their strength. I love analog to death but I wouldn't pick a mopho over a virus, certainly not for what you are making , but we have to make our own decisions. Just take your time, think about your music, ask yourself is analog really what I need? Good point being made above about software and some may get what the virus will give from software.

They are too different to compare. It's like comparing a 909 to an 808. You either want one or the other, or sometimes both.

The TI Snow is like half a TI, which means you do get the Virus sound, but less DSP power, meaning fewer voices. The big problem with it, IMO, is that fewer knobs. I understand the draw. There were many times that I was about to pull the trigger on a TI Snow. But, you would probably get more bang for your buck from a Waldorf Blofeld. You could get a Blofeld with keys for less than the price of a new TI Snow. I lucked out in finding a TI Polar for less than many people pay for a TI Snow. It pays to watch craigslist.

I'm with baethku. Bass, complex textures and fx? I'd be looking at a Pulse2/Blofeld combi if I were you.

I owned a Mopho X4 and although I regret having to sell it, I don't really feel the huge loss I was expecting to feel. It was a great synth and I programmed some great bass with it. However, it kind of felt like it was too much of one thing and not enough of the other. As a mono synth for bass and leads, it was excellent, barely needed to use the sub oscilators, and really didn't need 4 voices. The 4 lfos were overkill in my opinion. The extra envelope and mod matrix certainly allowed some in depth programming, but lush pads and strings just never really sung. 4 voices just wasn't enough for that sort of thing. In the future, I think I'd rather go for the Mopho mono keys. Of course I may just be trying to make myself feel better about having to let it go.