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Yamaha Reface countdown
Old 31st July 2016 | Show parent
  #4291
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adydub's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 86c3d96 View Post
So...which Reface should I buy? I don't need one, but in and of itself with no goal in mind, which is the most fun.? I am wanting one as a toy.
Either the CS or CP.

The CP may appeal more to players with it's responsiveness to velocity and the FX can take it well beyond straight forward electric pianos. Great for songwriting.

The CS if you're more into the synth side of things. The knob per function wysiwyg interface is so immediate and inspiring for creating sounds.

The DX is less immediate and less fun, the YS is a bit more niche (but if Hammond and Farfisa organs are your thing could be worth a look).
Old 31st July 2016 | Show parent
  #4292
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
For me definitely the DX (CS close 2nd)

Obviously it depends on what kind of sounds you're looking for. I have tried the CP, CS and the DX and the sounds that are coming from the DX are simply amazing.

Yes even the mini keys feel great. I still haven't found anything I don't like about the DX after 2 months of use.
Old 31st July 2016 | Show parent
  #4293
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Hazmatic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm a bit biased but I'd go with the CS.
Old 31st July 2016
  #4294
Lives for gear
 
Fay Smearing's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Or pick up the new updated MKII MX49 (or 61) that plugs into the new iOS FM Essential synth and lets you play FM or even AWM and FM combined, as well as having Cubasis in iOS.

They quietly dropped this in the last few days, so some details are scarce, but apparently there are some hardware changes in the MX, although the base spec and hardware looks mostly the same as the outgoing model.

For maybe (USD) $5-600 street for the 49, you get keys and sounds and the previous MX series stuff with bi-directional MIDI and Audio over USB, class-compliant with PC, Mac and iOS (recent versions, but I haven't read that far yet), which gives you the Junior Cubase and and an audio and MIDI interface all in the one box.

Quote:
New Feature: class-compliant
The MX BK/BU series features class-compliant, β€œplug and play” USB audio/MIDI with iOS, Mac and PC. Just plug it in and your MX BK/BU synthesizer becomes your audio and MIDI interface for the rest of your music studio. Monitor all the sounds from your computer via the headphone output of the MX BK/BU or listen to your DAW tracks by connecting the MX BK/BU to external studio monitors or PA gear. The audio converters on the MX BK/BU are made for professional music applications so everything on your computer -- even games -- will sound better when using the MX BK/BU as the output. The MX BK/BU interface is bi-directional for digitally recording your MX BK/BU directly to your computer or iOS device resulting in high-quality audio.


Add the compatible iOS device and you get the FM stuff -

Quote:
"FM Essential" is an FM synthesizer app for iPhone and iPad with real-time synth performance and editing. Connect your iOS device to the Yamaha music synthesizer MX BK/BU, and you can do following:
Play all 271 high-quality Voices consisting of preset sounds from the V50, TX81Z and DX100 Legacy FM PLUS presets and combination Voices specially made for the MX BK/BU series.
Change Voices of FM Essential and control various parameters via the MX BK/BU onboard controllers.
Store your changes



It's kind of like a simpler Montage at a fraction of the price. In fact it seems like it takes the already impressive bang-for-buck and outright functionality of the previous MX series up in a big way.





*Edit* Found more about the FM Essentials.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/apps/...al/?mode=model


This is a neat touch:

Quote:
When connected to the MX BK/BU, you can customize Voices using edit. You can edit various parameters such as operator wave, volume, operator FB level, operator EG, LFO, PEG (pitch EG).

15 types of effects and a 3-band EQ are available.

You can even select the original sound chips used by Yamaha vintage synthesizers (DX100, TX81Z, V50) – all of which are modeled perfectly.

I started out to mainly post about the FM Essentials, then found all the new MX49/61 stuff and the integration, which is worth a it's own topic, but since it's likely to be of interest to someone looking in this price range, I'll leave it here, since the MX covers some of the ground the other Reface models cater for. With the FM added it almost covers the lot, minus the portable thing and the dedicated functions of the different versions.
Old 31st July 2016 | Show parent
  #4295
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StepLogik's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 86c3d96 View Post
So...which Reface should I buy? I don't need one, but in and of itself with no goal in mind, which is the most fun.? I am wanting one as a toy.
I think they all sound good. I have the DX and it sounds very clean and pristine - doesn't have the 'character' of the original DX series. I know that reasoning seems lame, and its subjective, but its just not there. The CS sounds really good for a VA, but it is very limited in control and has no patch memory.

Wait for the blowout this holiday season or get one cheap on eBay. They are still overpriced right now,
Old 31st July 2016
  #4296
Gear Maniac
 
4zet's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
definitely the dx. infinite sounds unlike the rest, plus it is not that more difficult to program. otherwise the cs. the organ and the e-piano seem to be really limited for that price i think.
Old 31st July 2016 | Show parent
  #4297
Deleted 86c3d96
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by StepLogik View Post
I think they all sound good. I have the DX and it sounds very clean and pristine - doesn't have the 'character' of the original DX series. I know that reasoning seems lame, and its subjective, but its just not there. The CS sounds really good for a VA, but it is very limited in control and has no patch memory.

Wait for the blowout this holiday season or get one cheap on eBay. They are still overpriced right now,
Yes, I am hoping for Reface II, but I might buy the DX or CP for $249
Old 13th October 2016
  #4298
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Fleer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Ordered the CP. With its sweet CP4 Stage sound quality, great effects and 128 note polyphony, I preferred it to the 8 note polyphony of both DX and CS, while YC would give me the same 128 note polyphony but not the effects.
Old 13th October 2016
  #4299
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Just now finally ordered the YC ... two minutes ago ... can't wait!
Old 13th October 2016 | Show parent
  #4300
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RobotsVsChildren's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleer View Post
Ordered the CP. With its sweet CP4 Stage sound quality, great effects and 128 note polyphony, I preferred it to the 8 note polyphony of both DX and CS, while YC would give me the same 128 note polyphony but not the effects.
Congrats. It's one of my most favorite instruments in the whole studio.
Old 13th October 2016
  #4301
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robotunes's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Getting a DX. With proper programming, it sounds like a combo organ, an e piano or a VA. Or a guitar, a drum kit or a demon in a hallway on an interstellar spaceship.

Not as good as a YC or CP or exactly like a CS or a guitar but good enough for a mix. Plus it's got that demon thing down.
Old 14th October 2016 | Show parent
  #4302
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Blackbelt Jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Bought a Kontrol 88s in part because I wanted a master kb for the cp and yc. I can't wait to try them with full 88 keys!

It's crazy that the $399 cp has the same spectral component modeling as the high end & expensive cp1 and cp5. As far as I know those are the only three Yamaha devices that use this tech. All their other stage pianos and workstations use samples for some reason.

Also keen to try keyscspe at some point too.
Old 14th October 2016
  #4303
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Fleer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Even their new Montage only uses AWM samples for its E-pianos, to differentiate from the CP range.
Old 14th October 2016 | Show parent
  #4304
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Blackbelt Jones's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleer View Post
Even their new Montage only uses AWM samples for its E-pianos, to differentiate from the CP range.
I guess they didn't think there was any chance that the Reface CP would cannibalize their high end CP sales. Whatever the reason, I am certainly glad they decided to put the sound engine of a high end stage piano in this little reface. I believe the CP1 and CP5 have several more EP models, but the models they used on the Reface CP seem to cover a lot of ground.

My 88 key controller arrives on Tuesday... can't wait!
Old 30th November 2016
  #4305
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Finally got to try the cs yesterday, it sounds excellent. I really like the tonality of it. it has this instant 80s action movie atmosphere to its pads. All in all i prefer it sonically to the system 1 engine wich i found a bit too harsh in the mid and upper frequencies.
As it is now ca same price as the botique series i would say its pretty.even. i would go for the cs.

The cp and yc also impressed me, but they are not my cup of tea. Cant speak on the dx cause i would need more time to dig into it.

I think the refined an1x engine really captures some of the mojo of the original cs series. Thick beefy sound with the immeadicy of my old juno6.
Im sold.
Also with 8 note poliphony it has a leg up on the competitors

Im deffo gettin this one.
Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #4306
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tux99's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by krakapow View Post
I think the refined an1x engine really captures some of the mojo of the original cs series. Thick beefy sound with the immeadicy of my old juno6.
Im sold.
Also with 8 note poliphony it has a leg up on the competitors
The AN1x had 10 voice polyphony back in the '90s which makes 8 voices almost 20 years later look ridiculous. The Reface CS should have come with at least 64 voices (and multitimbrality to make use of all those voices). The JD-Xi SuperNatural Synth engine is more comparable to the CS and that one has 128 voices.
Boutiques are a different matter as those are component simulating, not plain VA.
Old 30th November 2016 | Show parent
  #4307
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Don't forget the price difference. Don't forget other things that'll eat into the available power, like the effects. If I remember correctly, Reface CS uses an updated version of the engine, so the quality could have gone up while the number of voices stays in place. Also, compact and battery powered, this limits how much power they can put in there.

I don't know much about the AN engine but it has ties with Yamaha's physical modelling work:
In addition to the virtual acoustic modeling used in the tone generator itself, physical circuitry modeling was applied in some elements of the VL1 effects as well. The VL1 was followed by the VP1 with physical modeling of string instruments, the AN1x with modeling of analog synthesis, and the EX5 and EX7 which combined algorithms from both the VL1 and AN1x with a range of new physical modeling concepts. The technology was constantly evolving and being refined at K’s Lab. The term β€œVCM” was first used to describe the modeling technology used in the β€œAdd-on Effects” series of audio effects developed for a digital mixing console that was released in 2004. From that point onward K’s Lab has been devoted to developing physical modeling technology that effectively emulates a variety of audio effects, including the types of analog outboard processors used in recording studios and guitar processors, and implementing that technology in a wide range of products. - The Development of Virtual Circuitry Modeling Audio Effects, Yamaha
The JD-Xi can achieve 128 voices because it uses an approach that starts with samples and then does all sorts of things with them, it is technologically probably closer to the Reface YC and CP than to the CS.

Look at the Blofeld or Ultranova, both can have a touch more than 20 voices... in a best case scenario. Here's part of how the Ultra does it:
According to Novation, β€œThe wavetables in the Supernova series are all calculated. The wavetables in the UltraNova, even the standard analogue waves are wavetable oscillators. This change in oscillator generation was first used on the A-Station and K-Station and subsequently in the KS series, X-Station and Xio.” This allows the UltraNova to have some advanced tricks when it comes to the oscillator section, which will be covered in detail below. - MATRIXSYNTH Review and Overview of the Novation UltraNova
I don't know what the Blofeld does but I wouldn't be surprised it's the same kind of stuff.

KingKORG, not a cheap thing (originally). 24 voices. Same as the RADIAS. However, much more capable oscillators, much better filters, and the overall quality has gone up.

I could go on. Comparing voice counts is meaningless because it's missing way too much of the picture. It does not tell you the quality of the voices, it does not tell you the complexity of the voices, it does not tell you if those voices are reliable, it does not tell you what other things the synth may be doing that also uses up resources, it does not tell you if the engine responds smoothly to changes, etc.

With digital you can go anywhere from a million aliasy pseudo saws to a hyper real mono analog emulation that brings an i7 to its knees. Where on that range a synth is is a big guess because the exact tech details aren't known, "VA" being short for "Vaaaaaaaaaague".


BTW, multitimbrality has no place on the CS, just not what it's for
Old 30th November 2016
  #4308
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Reface sound fantastic. CS should be in a 5 oct, 24 voice, 4 part kb. Pitch and mod weels, 2 adsr, 2 lfo, 4 mono/2stereo out. Looks very good so, keep the colors. CP and YC sound impressive for the price. Just wish all of them had bigger, stronger sisters.
Old 31st December 2016
  #4309
Kja
Lives for gear
I got a new dx, found out you can hold the arrows in the sliders to scroll, also tap them to be more precise.. Love the sound! Plus the keys are better than my jdxi, feel better than korgs slim keys, but not quite as nice action as the slim keys but better feeling and have that snap of real synth keys missing from the others. I think there many favorite of the mini keys available.
Old 30th January 2017 | Show parent
  #4310
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rsaintjohn's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'll admit, I greeted the Yamaha Reface line with a ton of skepticism when it came out. But I managed to get a brand new CS model off of Craigslist the other for $250, and it is really impressive. Very accessible interface, surprisingly rich sounds and the "Soundmondo" (ick) Web MIDI and app features are slick. The phrase looper really lends itself to jamming, even if the CS is the only thing in front of me.

Definitely a keeper. Still can't imagine paying $500 for one. $350, definitely, so I feel like I got it for a steal. Appeals to me the same way my old Casio CZ-101 and Yamaha Portasound MK-100 from the 80s do. I thought I was done with these sub-$500 synths, but I'm glad I made an exception here.
Old 30th January 2017
  #4311
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robinkle's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'm very happy with my reface DX. Easy to program and sounds great!
Old 30th January 2017 | Show parent
  #4312
Gear Maniac
 
Stingrays's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
I'm very happy with my reface DX. Easy to program and sounds great!
Same story with me. Just bought it and like it so much!
Old 9th June 2017 | Show parent
  #4313
Lives for gear
 
ranzee's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaintjohn View Post
I'll admit, I greeted the Yamaha Reface line with a ton of skepticism when it came out. But I managed to get a brand new CS model off of Craigslist the other for $250, and it is really impressive. Very accessible interface, surprisingly rich sounds and the "Soundmondo" (ick) Web MIDI and app features are slick. The phrase looper really lends itself to jamming, even if the CS is the only thing in front of me.

Definitely a keeper. Still can't imagine paying $500 for one. $350, definitely, so I feel like I got it for a steal. Appeals to me the same way my old Casio CZ-101 and Yamaha Portasound MK-100 from the 80s do. I thought I was done with these sub-$500 synths, but I'm glad I made an exception here.
Sorry to quote an old post of yours. But I agree 100% - which is why I just bought one brand new too. I got it for $460 AUD (€310 EURO, Β£270 GBP). here's a pic
Attached Thumbnails
Yamaha Reface countdown-rafacecs.jpg  
Old 15th June 2017
  #4314
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
(sigh.....)

After the fact contrarianism in full effect

Don't care what excuses or uses you've come up with 2-3 years later, the Reface product line was an attempted rip-off by Yamaha.........and it was YOU they were trying to rip off,

Luckily these flopped as they deserved too, but if you want to go on with this "Y'know....the Cs...sounds ooookay" crap, then you are just encouraging them to try it again,

Vote with your dollars, if you let them swindle you, you are asking them to try it again.
Old 15th June 2017 | Show parent
  #4315
Lives for gear
 
robotunes's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
Vote with your dollars.


People did vote with their dollars and bought these really great-sounding keyboards most likely at less than full price.

Yamaha didn't make nearly as much money as they'd hoped (they slashed the prices on the Refaces), so they likely will abandon this experiment.

Have you played/programmed these in person? Easy to use and killer sounds. May not fit your workflow but a lot of people are making music with them.

To each his own.
Old 15th June 2017 | Show parent
  #4316
Lives for gear
 
adydub's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
(sigh.....)

After the fact contrarianism in full effect

Don't care what excuses or uses you've come up with 2-3 years later, the Reface product line was an attempted rip-off by Yamaha.........and it was YOU they were trying to rip off,

Luckily these flopped as they deserved too, but if you want to go on with this "Y'know....the Cs...sounds ooookay" crap, then you are just encouraging them to try it again,

Vote with your dollars, if you let them swindle you, you are asking them to try it again.
The CS is a great sounding knob per function poly. Costs about the same as a MicroKorg or Mininova but sounds much better. Can't see why people have no problem with these other minikey synths but view the Reface as a personal affront. Similarly with the CP; show me an alternative with such good sounds and FX for a similar price or less, it doesn't exist. I'm pretty happy to own both, have no problem if they're not for you, but just flat out don't get why some people get so hysterically offended by them.
Old 15th June 2017
  #4317
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Could remove the "countdown" from thread title now.

Same applies to all established threads that broke news on a product then became the central dominant discussion.

Thanks
Old 15th June 2017 | Show parent
  #4318
Lives for gear
 
teceem's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by adydub View Post
don't get why some people get so hysterically offended by them.
Anything will offend somebody somewhere, for some reason. Do you get it now?
Old 15th June 2017 | Show parent
  #4319
Lives for gear
 
soundxplorer's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
(sigh.....)

After the fact contrarianism in full effect

Don't care what excuses or uses you've come up with 2-3 years later, the Reface product line was an attempted rip-off by Yamaha.........and it was YOU they were trying to rip off,
Still love my CS, it sounds wonderful, plus it's easily the most "fun" synth I've owned since my old Juno-60. It's perfect for quickly composing melodies. It has the best mini-keys I've ever played, and at the current price I think it's a better choice than the Roland Boutique series.

Also, hint: every company wants your money.
Old 15th June 2017
  #4320
Kja
Lives for gear
Reface is the only mini keys that play and are built in a high quality way, there are full size keys that aren't even built as well. Hating mini keys is one thing, but nobody can hate on the build quality of reface, they are built very well, as well as any under $1000 synth is for the most part. Say what you want But that's truth!
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