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Boing.....Boing........Snare
Old 15th February 2009
  #1
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Boing.....Boing........Snare

How do I get rid of Boing from a snare ? Its an old Rogers Superphonic and I got it tuned up , have put some heavy duty tape on it and all I get out of the 57 on the top it Boing....Boing.......
Old 15th February 2009
  #2
Jax
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One way is gating it in the mix to cut down the decay of the top head (shorter 'hold' and release times). Or you could use anything like SPL transient designer (plug-in or hardware) and turn down the sustain knob.

I've had success with cutting an O-ring (aka Richie Ring) into 3-4 inch wide segments and taping the edges of it to the head (next to the rim of course) AND the processing mentioned above.

And/Or you could get a snare that doesn't ring much. Die cast hoops are always more controlled sounding that triple flanged. Different makes of snares and different designs also affect the amount of ring. Some older N&C's seem to have been built with the idea that all ringing is bad.
Old 15th February 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
One way is gating it in the mix to cut down the decay of the top head (shorter 'hold' and release times). Or you could use anything like SPL transient designer (plug-in or hardware) and turn down the sustain knob.

I've had success with cutting an O-ring (aka Richie Ring) into 3-4 inch wide segments and taping the edges of it to the head (next to the rim of course) AND the processing mentioned above.

And/Or you could get a snare that doesn't ring much. Die cast hoops are always more controlled sounding that triple flanged. Different makes of snares and different designs also affect the amount of ring. Some older N&C's seem to have been built with the idea that all ringing is bad.

Thanks for tips I'll try it .

I probably need a different snare .

Some snares are such a pain .

When you play the snare it sounds decent in the room but close miced it always s
Old 15th February 2009
  #4
Jax
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Now that you mention it, mic technique could be a big part of why you're getting too much poing. If the mic is picking up too much of the outer edge of the head, more poiiinnng will be recorded than *crack*. You might try moving the mic inward by an inch or a little more, and raising it so it points down at the center of the snare, where the stick is hitting the head. And make sure whoever is playing the snare can actually produce a good controlled *crack* with less ring, just by the way he or she is playing.
Old 15th February 2009
  #5
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666666's Avatar
Experiment with tuning the top AND bottom head differently... you may be getting some type of weird harmonic thing happening between the two heads... it happens. Try loosening the bottom head a bit, etc.

If you have a small room with little or no sonic treatment, that could very well be the problem. I once worked in a small room with just a little bit of 2" foam here and there, all the drums had weird ringing problems, drove me nuts. I took the kit out of the room and into a much larger room, didn't touch the tuning at all, the kit instantly sounded amazing with no ringing at all. This was quite a learning experience as to how critically important it is to be working in a proper, well-treated room.

And finally, indeed some snare drums can simply have mysterious unsolvable issues. I've tuned hundreds of different snare drums, and now and then one comes along that just can't be tuned well. I was working with a snare once, to this day I still don't know what was wrong with it, but it had a very strange ring / poing that could not be gotten rid of.

If all else fails, just try adding more dampening near the outer edges of both the top and bottom heads. Of course you do not want to deaden the drum too much, but... there is a level where it may be ok. Instead of just a strip of duct tape, try even taping something a little heavier near the edge... of course you've heard of the old "wallet" trick (though this no longer works for me since my wallet is too light these days)... or just take a small piece of material, roll it up and tape it on, etc.
Old 15th February 2009
  #6
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Thanks for more tipsheh


The room sounds good , high vaulted ceilings , 16" , all the other drums sound good and the snare sounds decent in the overheads , but close micing the top BOING .

Its a 57 parallel pointing towards drummers crotch an inch or so over the top of the snare . I'm going try the old standard way of pointing down at the snare at a 45 degree angle and try to bring it away from the rim.


Top head is tuned to a C and bottom head to a G

And much more dampening I guess is also needed .

All I want is a snare I tune stick a mic on it and its done .
Old 16th February 2009
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
high vaulted ceilings , 16" , all the other drums
I sense a Spinal Tap moment!

"It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel is!"

When you build the actual room, it will follow these proportions, exactly?

Sorry, can't resist.
Old 16th February 2009
  #8
Jax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenchijin2 View Post
I sense a Spinal Tap moment!

"It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel is!"

When you build the actual room, it will follow these proportions, exactly?

Sorry, can't resist.
Were the plans written on a napkin?

Was Artie Fufkin there... or not? heh
Old 16th February 2009
  #9
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Every time I've had ringing issues with drums - it's been a tuning issue. I've found that on my kit (premier signia maple) and a half-dozen snares.. if I can't fix it with a half piece of moongel, it's my fault and I need to retune.

One thing to check that may seem obvious, but can get out of whack easily - muffle one head or the other and make SURE that all the lugs are in tune with each other. That always causes annoying ringing/ing if one or two get out of tune.

Also, aim that 57 down toward the head a bit more, let it hear the stick.
Old 18th February 2009
  #10
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How does it sound in the mix?
Old 18th February 2009
  #11
to really get the sound of the snares you will need 2 mics, one on top just poking over the top of the rim back about a inch from the drum as if you were micing the shell but up just over the top of the rim. Mic 2 is micing the shell. This will give you plenty of snares without the ratiness of micing under the drum pointing up at the snares.
If you use a fair amount of room mics you will need this mic to help with getting some more snare and also some top end without eq. If you point the top mic down at the head, your micing the head which is why you'll get with that mic. You will also get some snare sound from the overheads. If you're not, than the issue is with the drum. Also sometimes instead of tuning the snare way up, it actually need to to down.
Old 18th February 2009
  #12
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Sometimes a snare that rings when the kit is solo'd ends up having body and length in the track. As long as the ring is in tune.

J
Old 18th February 2009
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
to really get the sound of the snares you will need 2 mics, one on top just poking over the top of the rim back about a inch from the drum as if you were micing the shell but up just over the top of the rim. Mic 2 is micing the shell. This will give you plenty of snares without the ratiness of micing under the drum pointing up at the snares.
If you use a fair amount of room mics you will need this mic to help with getting some more snare and also some top end without eq. If you point the top mic down at the head, your micing the head which is why you'll get with that mic. You will also get some snare sound from the overheads. If you're not, than the issue is with the drum. Also sometimes instead of tuning the snare way up, it actually need to to down.
Thanks for the tips ,
Old 18th February 2009
  #14
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I'll post an audio sample soon .

I'm thinking with this snare its mic placement which is the problem , cause when I play the drums in the room it sounds decent .
Old 25th February 2009
  #15
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You must have made some sort of mistake in telling us the name of the snare.

Is it a

Ludwig Supraphonic

or is it a

Rogers Dynasonic?

Both have internal mufflers if you're talking about vintage stuff. Don't tighten the muffler too much. Just enough to touch the underside of the batter head - then slightly tighten to get the sound you're looking for. If you're still getting too much ring, loosen ONE of the lugs. This will help. I know all the rules talk about the top should be this note and the bottom should be that note... blah, blah, blah.... Sometimes you have to break one of the rules to achieve what you're looking for. Trust a guys who's been drumming for almost 40 years.
Old 25th February 2009
  #16
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Goliath|Audio's Avatar
 

Sometimes a change in the heads makes quite a difference too.
Old 28th February 2009
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soul&folk View Post
You must have made some sort of mistake in telling us the name of the snare.

Is it a

Ludwig Supraphonic

or is it a

Rogers Dynasonic?

Both have internal mufflers if you're talking about vintage stuff. Don't tighten the muffler too much. Just enough to touch the underside of the batter head - then slightly tighten to get the sound you're looking for. If you're still getting too much ring, loosen ONE of the lugs. This will help. I know all the rules talk about the top should be this note and the bottom should be that note... blah, blah, blah.... Sometimes you have to break one of the rules to achieve what you're looking for. Trust a guys who's been drumming for almost 40 years.
Ahhhhhhh

Its a Rogers Dynasonic !

I had a Ludwig Supraphonic which I loved but sold and regret it now .


I took the internal muffler out of it , which may be the problem ?

I thought I read some where to not use those internal mufflers ?

I tried retuning it but still a little too much , ring , but haven't tried loosening one of the lugs yet , I'll try it .
Old 1st March 2009
  #18
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Lucky you. One day I'll get myself a Dynasonic. I've got a Supraphonic from the early 70s. It's great for certain sounds. When I want a newer crisper sound, I use a Mapex Saturn snare with a tight batter head and it works great.

As far as eliminating the ring, I would put the muffler back on if you still have it. Some people avoid mufflers because they worry about picking up some rattling sound in their recordings from all the parts. I have had no such experience with my rogers set. Some people say that you must remove all mufflers to maximize the resonance. I dunno... Do your self a favor and put it back on and you decide. So many great drummers recorded with that snare with the muffler on.

If you want to experiment with another approach, there's always moonjel. You can pick some up in most music shop. Put a square or 2 or 3 or even 4 on the batter head. Play around with positions and you'll find something that works. Zero heads help as well. A bit of cotton and some tape will achieve the same as a muffler just not as convinient as the muffler which stays out of the way.
Old 1st March 2009
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soul&folk View Post
Lucky you. One day I'll get myself a Dynasonic. I've got a Supraphonic from the early 70s. It's great for certain sounds. When I want a newer crisper sound, I use a Mapex Saturn snare with a tight batter head and it works great.

As far as eliminating the ring, I would put the muffler back on if you still have it. Some people avoid mufflers because they worry about picking up some rattling sound in their recordings from all the parts. I have had no such experience with my rogers set. Some people say that you must remove all mufflers to maximize the resonance. I dunno... Do your self a favor and put it back on and you decide. So many great drummers recorded with that snare with the muffler on.

If you want to experiment with another approach, there's always moonjel. You can pick some up in most music shop. Put a square or 2 or 3 or even 4 on the batter head. Play around with positions and you'll find something that works. Zero heads help as well. A bit of cotton and some tape will achieve the same as a muffler just not as convinient as the muffler which stays out of the way.
I got that drum tuning video "Drum Tuning Sound and Design Simplified" with Bob Gatzen .

He was the one that said its best to remove the internal muffler but I think this snare might need it .

I still got the muffler , I take good care of all my stuff


So tomorrow I'm gonna try it out .


The rest of my kit , Rodgers 1968 Holiday set , sounds great !
Old 1st March 2009
  #20
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Let us know how it works out
Old 1st March 2009
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
I got that drum tuning video "Drum Tuning Sound and Design Simplified" with Bob Gatzen .

He was the one that said its best to remove the internal muffler but I think this snare might need it .

I still got the muffler , I take good care of all my stuff


So tomorrow I'm gonna try it out .


The rest of my kit , Rodgers 1968 Holiday set , sounds great !
before you do that try some moongel. A little goes along way and usually I find it best for the moongel to be away from the mic
Old 1st March 2009
  #22
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Thanks for all the snare tips everyoneheh



So I went to put the muffler back in and don't remember how its supposed to go


So I put the batter head back on and tuned and retuned and finally got rid of the , but its tuned a little too high and sounds choked a bit . I didn't go for a note just did it by ear .

I tracked the drums to test the snare and theres pretty much NO and lots of POP and CRACK but sounds a little choked . Still got to fine tune it .

I also moved the snare mic back so its near the edge of the rim pointing parallel over the top head .



I was tuning TOO low I think.

I had a Ludwig snare before this one and it was a 6.5x14 and had a deep tone .

I'm used to the Ludwig deep sound but this Rodgers snare doesn't do that , its more like the classic pop song snare .


Still gotta fine tune this guy so its not choked .

Tuning drums to where your happy can be alot of work .
Old 1st March 2009
  #23
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Here an old picture of this bastard of a snare .








Heres the toms and kick . Now the rest of the kit is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy to tune . I've spent about 10 minutes tuning these guys .

Old 2nd March 2009
  #24
You can also tune it down and put on an e-ring or zero ring.

You can also make these out of old snare heads easily.
It's worked for me in the past.

TW
Attached Images
Boing.....Boing........Snare-e-ring.jpg 
Old 2nd March 2009
  #25
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Scumbum - that's an awfully nice kit. Bet it records great!
"-)
Old 2nd March 2009
  #26
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Glad you're getting closer to what you're after. Like I said, those rules of exactly how to tune are meant to be broken!

One more thing that will help, have a small carpet under the snare.
Old 2nd March 2009
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
Scumbum - that's an awfully nice kit. Bet it records great!
"-)

Thanks , yeah they do record very well and very easy to tune ..

The kick is really punchy and the toms sing and have loads of good tone .
Old 2nd March 2009
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soul&folk View Post
Glad you're getting closer to what you're after. Like I said, those rules of exactly how to tune are meant to be broken!

One more thing that will help, have a small carpet under the snare.
I'm getting closer . When I mess with it tomorrow I'm thinking I'll finally get it in check , hopefully


Metal snares have always given me problem with ring .
Old 2nd March 2009
  #29
Old 2nd March 2009
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
You can also tune it down and put on an e-ring or zero ring.

You can also make these out of old snare heads easily.
It's worked for me in the past.

TW
Cool , I'll try and make one , I'm a broke ass right now .
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