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Why dont all drummers know how to do that snare "rim hit" trick?
Old 22nd December 2007
  #91
yes, I have a few friends some play bass, some guitar and some play drums, that had tendonites because of playing.
most of them never really worried about how they play their instruments until the problem started showing up.
I don´t know how to pick up the sticks the right way either, my "tutor" always told me and tried to fix it but it´s hard to change the way you play after a few years.
one thing I think help me not developing tendonitis are great ergonomics on my studio, riding a bike, playing drums and stretching a lot during the day, but this is just what I "think" helped me, nothing scientific.
Old 22nd December 2007
  #92
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

There's a lot you can do, but most of it is all in the prevention department, not much you can do after you have it....best is to stop the activity.

Point I was making was that rim shots take a toll to injury. You can use the best rimshot technique, yet no matter what a rimshot is gonna be a lot harder on your wrists than no rimshots.
Old 22nd December 2007
  #93
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deve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Some songs just need that rim hit - on every stroke, you know what I mean - when the drummer hits the stick evenly accross the drum head AND the rim HARD - to make a harder CRACK sound.

Some drummers ONLY know how to tap the drum stick on the centre of the drum - and thats not the best for a LOT of rock songs..

it's an art to get it consistant...

Why dont drum teachers teach it?

rim shot will eat up your sticks before you know it.
Old 23rd December 2007
  #94
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ImJohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
If they don't know how to do that, they aren't professionals, it's that simple. A drummer not being able to play a rimshot is like a saxophone player not being able to play a Db. Inexcusable.

What's tougher is convincing the drummer's that *do* play a rimshot on every backbeat to STOP doing that in specific places.
Yeah! It's as hard as telling an engineer, who after listening for 10 minutes to music I've worked on for over a year, to just STFU and record what I'm doing without going on a simplton producer trip and trying to make everyone he records sound exactly the same as what ever the current hit style is.
Old 23rd December 2007
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk View Post
this is what a snare should look like after a take for rock music
LOL! nice!
Old 23rd December 2007
  #96
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ImJohn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Some songs just need that rim hit - on every stroke, you know what I mean - when the drummer hits the stick evenly accross the drum head AND the rim HARD - to make a harder CRACK sound.

Some drummers ONLY know how to tap the drum stick on the centre of the drum - and thats not the best for a LOT of rock songs..

it's an art to get it consistant...

Why dont drum teachers teach it?

Probably a lot of private rock/jazz instructors teach variations of it but if someone was trained in a concert band / symphonic enviroment they may have learned a different form of 'rim shot'.

One (called a 'sidestick' I think) where you hold the stick backwards, place the top of the stick on the head and then slam the shaft down onto the rim. (play around with tip placement for best sound) Sometimes this technique is used when a rimshot is called for in a score. (and often heard in rock ballads from the '70s )

The 'loud' variation of this is to do almost the same thing but leave the stick down (tip on head, shaft on rim) and then smack the shaft with the other stick.

Both of these techniques are easy to master and easy to be consistant with. I'd suggest them to non-drummer engineers who have a snare and sticks around in case you need to create some 'rimshot' samples for replacement/enhancement uses.
Old 2nd August 2009
  #97
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DarrinStephens's Avatar
 

Whenny Lite

You know a trick, if you'd call it that, that I don't hear drummers do anymore, is doing a flam on the backbeats and both hits of the flam (soft left with loud right) are rimshots.

The flam needs to be of the very open type, and in a way it sounds like hand claps, even more if the flam openness varies every hit. You can even do the left soft hit kinda sloppy and it sounds cool as long as the right loud hit is accurate.

I use that a lot on the solo or out section of songs, sounds great while doing offbeats on the ride cup or open disco hihat, and it's a very full sound. It's a way to "up the ante" and really kicks the band, plus it gives your left arm a break from choppin' wood on a R&B gig.

I don't hear anybody do that today. I got it from Lenny White, he played that a lot in Return to Forever, I'm thinking of the "Where Have I Known You Before" album.
Old 4th August 2009
  #98
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Just reading this thread makes my left hand hurt. I really hate the nasty vibrations that I get back from the stick.
Old 4th August 2009
  #99
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dualflip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Some songs just need that rim hit - on every stroke, you know what I mean - when the drummer hits the stick evenly accross the drum head AND the rim HARD - to make a harder CRACK sound.

Some drummers ONLY know how to tap the drum stick on the centre of the drum - and thats not the best for a LOT of rock songs..

it's an art to get it consistant...

Why dont drum teachers teach it?

I remember this one time that a great session drummer told me: "if you ever get a drumer in the studio that doesnt hit the snare with a rimshot everytime, then he is probably not a good drummer"
Old 4th August 2009
  #100
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio View Post
Just reading this thread makes my left hand hurt. I really hate the nasty vibrations that I get back from the stick.
Try these>

Wedgie Anti-Vibe Drum Shox and more Practice Pads at GuitarCenter.com.
I find they work better if you only put them on 1/2 way, it dampens the stick more.

Buy Zildjian Anti-Vibe Hickory Drumsticks | Drum Sticks | Musician's Friend
These work well too, but they are expensive, especially if you break sticks often.

Also go to a sporting goods store and get some tennis racket wrap....they have anti-shock wrap which is a little thicker.

Any one of these reduces vibration and shock. I use at least 2, sometimes all 3 together on one stick.
Old 5th August 2009
  #101
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio View Post
Just reading this thread makes my left hand hurt. I really hate the nasty vibrations that I get back from the stick.
i am still loving the HORNETS!
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/drums...-new-post.html
Old 5th August 2009
  #102
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

I tried a pair of Hornets, and while to do like the feel and action, they still vibrate and transfer shock more than the methods I use (in my previous post).
Old 5th August 2009
  #103
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
I tried a pair of Hornets, and while to do like the feel and action, they still vibrate and transfer shock more than the methods I use (in my previous post).
Fleaman post that over on that thread if you don't mind, as you have first hand experience with them: )~
thanks
Old 6th August 2009
  #104
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firby's Avatar
 

That sound that you are talking about that you call a rimshot that an especially erudite drummer recently stated is a bastardization of a classical term used to get ahold of a louder than F**K guitar player. Presumably, to get that guy to speed up, slow down, understand that the chorus is coming or whatever. It could be something like look dufus there is a bridge in this song and here it is, by the way you are late for it.

When the band gets a groove and the guitarist gets all misty eyed and rocker-posed his stage volume will likely raise from 6-24 dB and he will either take off with the tempo or let it stagnate as he prepares for his super flurry pentatonic rock minor super scalar assault with bonus hammer-on flagelating activity.

The resulting "Kang"(steel drum) or "GOK"(wood drum) is indeed a cool sound. The very reason you heard this sound long enough to request it in the studio as a favorite, and then pendantically and rather sorrowfully demand ...... and then _beg_ for it is often because the F*&*ing rock band has an agonizingly thin groove to begin with and little wiggle room from there.

I like the Kang and the GOK. Hail Kang and GOK! But I learned the Kang and GOK tradition in the typical fashion of herding cats. A cat that plays guitar, a cat that plays bass and a cat that sings.
Old 15th August 2009
  #105
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The problem I've had recording rimshots is consistency - invariably, the drummer will throw in a few accidental cross-stick hits when he misses the head. Then you have to go back and drop in a good rimshot, which, if you're using room mics, is a huge PITA.

I look at rimshots the same way I look at sideways baseball caps - it's a phase most kids grow out of eventually (when they realize maintaining what's left of their hearing might be more beneficial to them than being the loudest thing on stage.)
Old 15th August 2009
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio View Post
Just reading this thread makes my left hand hurt. I really hate the nasty vibrations that I get back from the stick.
Wow.. How do you handle calusses?

Interesting thread. I came across it and am amazed it's still going after 5 years..

I think that any good drummer would learn to use rimshots as well as cross-sticking or any other tool to make his "vocabulary" larger. There are times when nothing will do the job as well as a solid rimshot, other times you may just need subtlety barrely touch the drum/cymbal/whatever.

Drums are great for driving music.. it's hard for anyone to go anywhere if the drummer is just coasting.

My $0.02

Blessings!
Old 17th August 2009
  #107
If you're a hard hitter, rim shots can potentially allow your heads to last longer because a lot of the force is transferred to the rim and not the head.
Old 17th August 2009
  #108
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
I look at rimshots the same way I look at sideways baseball caps - it's a phase most kids grow out of eventually (when they realize maintaining what's left of their hearing might be more beneficial to them than being the loudest thing on stage.)
The tone of a rimshot can only be got by doing...a rimshot. Even at lower volumes, rimshots have a very different sound.

I don't at all agree that rimshots are a phase to grow out of.

Besides, all drummers should be wearing ear protection, whether they are doing rimshots...or not.
Old 17th August 2009
  #109
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pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
The tone of a rimshot can only be got by doing...a rimshot. Even at lower volumes, rimshots have a very different sound.

I don't at all agree that rimshots are a phase to grow out of.

Besides, all drummers should be wearing ear protection, whether they are doing rimshots...or not.
i think rimshots are a phase to grow to strive for, with control and authority!
Old 19th August 2009
  #110
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I don't normally throw many rimshots out there when I'm playing.

If you need more punch/focus to the sound of the snare put a die-cast rim on top.

If you want every stroke to sound like a rimshot just use a Black Beauty instead. (OK, just kidding).
Old 30th December 2018
  #111
Necro thread revival! @ Jules Do you still feel the same now?

This is a technique I learned early on, but took literally a few years to get down really well (being consistent enough that all hits were keepers in one or two full takes during a session).

IMO, it's one of many useful techniques to learn and has its place, even outside of rock music. But like everything, should be played in a way that is easy on your body. I've been doing it for nearly forty years with no issues; I personally have always used a "rebound" technique involving the shoulder (more so with hard hitting), elbow, wrist, and fingers. All play a part in the movement of the stick and all absorb the shock. By the time the stick hits the rim and head, it is very quickly off the drum. Mostly the fingers and wrist allow the natural rebound from the downward force to happen. The stick vibrates a lot, but not a problem because it's a relatively loose grip. Yeah, not something you're going to teach a drummer during a recording session.

The lighter hitting rim shots came later for me, but are useful as well, as is greatly changing the tone and amount of ring by allowing less of the stick length to contact the head. Sometimes I'll even do rimshots with only a couple of inches or so of stick length hitting the head.
Old 30th December 2018
  #112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aural Endeavors View Post
Necro thread revival! @ Jules Yeah, not something you're going to teach a drummer during a recording session.


With all the uniform triggered sounds these days it's rare to hear a snare recording with natural 'variation'unless you are listening to pre 1980's recordings. IMHO that's sad because I love all that. I get the 'production value' of consistency, I just don't like it much myself.
Old 10th January 2019
  #113
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post


With all the uniform triggered sounds these days it's rare to hear a snare recording with natural 'variation'unless you are listening to pre 1980's recordings. IMHO that's sad because I love all that. I get the 'production value' of consistency, I just don't like it much myself.
The use of HEAVY triggering and layering, in conjunction with micro editing has really taken musicians out of the picture. At least in the 80s you could TELL it was a manufactured performance, from a sequencer and/or drum machine.
Old 10th January 2019
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
The use of HEAVY triggering and layering, in conjunction with micro editing has really taken musicians out of the picture.
And why do you think that is? And if more people like Jules long for the human aspects of music now relatively absent, how would you help to satisfy this missing element/bring it back?
Old 10th January 2019
  #115
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aural Endeavors View Post
And why do you think that is? And if more people like Jules long for the human aspects of music now relatively absent, how would you help to satisfy this missing element/bring it back?
Because people follow trends.
Old 13th January 2019
  #116
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