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Working on my Drum Sound
Old 30th May 2020
  #1
Working on my Drum Sound

Hello!

Please let me know if this is out of place here (perhaps this belongs in the Newbie forum instead?) but I come seeking advice for helping to improve my drum tracking sound.

Caveat, I am not a drummer. Just an independent artist and home recording hack who would like to eventually get a better drum sound out of my home studio. My recording setup is pretty solid (fairly decent room treatment and a decent selection of mics and outboard all going into an RME UFX+).

If I had to guess, I assume my primary problems are related to setup and tuning, but would love some guidance as to where to focus my energy for the biggest impact on improving my overall kit tracking sound. After doing some research I figure the areas that may need attention are:

a) drum tuning
b) head selection
c) different kit/shells
d) room issues
e) mic technique issues
f) other??

While I figure my issues are probably more related to technique than *****', it's probably still worth mentioning the kit itself.

My kit is a badged set of blue ludwig vistalites that I picked up nearly 15 years ago from CL.. though I have no way to verify their authenticity. The sale included a set of paiste 2002 heavy 14" hats (the top hat has a 1" crack at the edge) amongst other things. I'm sure that crack isn't helping.

My main problems:

I find the kick and toms far too boomy sounding with an overly long decay. I've got some Evans EMAD 2 heads on the kick, with pairs of Remo Pinstripe(batter)/Ambassador(reso) heads on the toms.

The Hi Hat sounds pretty awful generally speaking (I'm sure that crack doesn't help) and I would happily save for something better if I had any idea what to replace 'em with (and whether to replace the stand as well). I'd like access to a more subtle, nuanced sound in the hats. I realize that this may be more representative of my ability as a player than my kit or setup.. if so, that's fair.

The snare, also a blue vistalite, was a separate purchase from ebay. It rings a little too much, but is probably the least of my problems. It's equipped with the same ludwig weather master heads it came with.

Lots of room for improvement here obviously.

I've experimented with a variety of mic techniques including Glynn John's style setups (using Redd Mic w. Telefunken AR51) and X/Y style OH setups (using KM84 pair) with inside kick (MD441, SM7B & Beta 52) and close-ish top snare mics (mv692/m70, md441). If money were no object I'd have also tried a 47 Fet on the kick, but alas...

Anyways.

I'm sure there is no end to the things I could do to improve the sound I'm getting, but I'd love to hear from you how to best use my time & energy for the biggest impact here.


Here are a few references for the kind of drum sounds I'd like to get closer to:

Currently loving the hat and snare sound on Khruangbin's "So We Won't Forget"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo4KMGiy--Y

While certainly less modern sounding, I've always loved the sound of the kit, particularly the snare, on this Barry White classic (playing your game baby):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQIdpBAdTw


Finally, with regards to Toms, why do all my reference tracks sound so dead while mine sound so boomy? Here's a timestamped link to a song from the new Strokes record. Not necessarily my favorite song, but how do they get such a dry, non-boomy tom sound here (55 second mark) ? Please don't say drum substitution (unless you tell me how to get such clean sounding samples myself .)

https://youtu.be/2jna3dWEnzo?t=55

I assume the answer is less about gating than it is about mic technique, room, tuning etc.. but feel free to tell me how wrong I am. I'm here to learn. I want to get better at recording a drum kit. If you think I need to replace the kit, tell me. If you think I need to better understand drum tuning, tell me. If you think it's the room, or mic technique, I'm all ears.

Finally, I've attached a couple of samples of my more recent attempts at recording the kit. One of the samples includes a copy that was sent through a pair of RS124s which I thought made it sound a little more exciting and coherent. I like using outboard compression to bring up the room and add desirable harmonic content, but would love to hear what you think even more..!

Thank you for reading!

PS. I recognize that my lack of ability to actually play the drums may be the real problem here, in which case, again, please feel free to let me know.


pps. I'm sorry there are no tom examples. I'll update this with some samples when I can.
Old 31st May 2020
  #2
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

I'm guessing the Khruangbin song is loops/samples.

I recall reading somewhere that the choice of hats for the Barry White stuff was 2002 Sound Edges. I doubt they were using Heavy, though.

I'm going to guess that the snare on the BW stuff is a standard depth. Could be a Supraphonic, but really could be anything. You can get close to this with your Vistalite.

A lot of people will tell you Vistalites aren't good for recording. They might be right. They might not... I've played some Vistalites that sounded fantastic.

There are a lot of threads about "That 70's Drum Sound..." Read those, take everything with a grain of salt, but you'll find some things to try, some starting points.

The sounds you seem to want are dead. That means muffling. You don't seem to want the detuned low thump on your snare; you want a bit of attack and crispness. Go for a medium tuning on your snare (or medium high, but not high...) and use a muffle ring around the edge. The BFSD things might be too dead for what you're doing. Ambassador top and Ambassador snare on bottom will work. You could try an Emperor top.

Take the reso head off your kick. (Or cut an enormous hole in the head, leaving 1" to 2" around the edge. This is the same as a single head, but it protects the rim and keeps the lug inserts from rattling.) Throw a heavy blanket in the drum. Adjust to taste. The drum has to ring long enough to make a low note, but no longer than that. Hold the blanket in place with a weight.

Toms, you can also try single headed. The Strokes example sounds like it could be a single headed floor tom. You can get away with Pinstripes on these. You can try thinner heads as well. No matter which, you'll still want to add more muffling. Gaff tape them. Or try cutting out a ring from an old head, but that might be too drastic on a tom. For a floor tom, you can tape a light piece of cloth ("tea towels" or napkins, or a piece of an old T shirt.) You don't need to come over the head that much. A couple inches in with the rest of it hanging off the drum. Tape it down with gaff tape. Again, you'll have to move it around until you're getting a balance of attack and tone with the proper length of decay.

Find some videos for getting even tension on your drums. Different methods exist. Pick the simplest one. Trust methods where you listen over methods where you count turns of the key.


Make your space super dead. Don't worry about room mics. You seem to have all the right gear. You also seem to be hitting appropriately. You don't bash. Experiment with rim shots on the snare. Alternately, learn how to make the snare pop without a rim shot.

Watch James Gadson:

https://youtu.be/CICIOJqEb5c?t=32
Old 31st May 2020
  #3
wow. Thank you Poopypants. Really appreciate the input! You've given me lots of things to try.
Thanks so much.

Live, Khruangbin's always got their drummer on the kit, and he always sounds pretty darn good with a light touch... certainly possible that in the studio they are subbing out the drums for samples..

I've thought about picking up one of those BFSD things you mention, but I've become a little skeptical of shortcuts.. but sounds like you think it can work.. so I might give it a try. Only $20.

Will definitely try removing the reso head on the kick. It's been a real pain trying to squeeze my kick mic in that little hole with my crap kick mic stand anyways.. so this should be interesting.

Watched a tuning video by Rick Beato who said the goal was to tune so no muffling was needed, and I liked the result I got from tuning my smaller rack tom.. though it's still got too much decay, but at least it sounds in tune with itself, which is nice. Took me a bit of fiddling and downloading a drum tuning app to test the tension at the lugs, but it still sounds better than it did before I replaced and tuned the heads. Will do the same with the others and then try your muffling technique as well. Lots of room for experimentation and improvement.

Thank you for your interesting suggestions. Will be trying them all.
Thanks so much!!
Old 31st May 2020
  #4
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The BFSD things are actually pretty cool, and I think you'd find them useful, but they will give you a sound that's more dead than your examples. Muffling rings will get you closer to your examples.

Beato is awesome. I have a feeling he'd adjust his advice if he was in this thread. Still, for what you want, you DO want to make the drum sound good with no muffling... and then you need to muffle it. Some funky tunings, you can actually knock the drum out of tune, then put gaff tape all over it... but that's not the sound you seem to be looking to create right now.

For tuning, resistance at the lug doesn't really help. You can try to press your finger lightly in the center of the head, then tap around the lugs. Listen carefully. There are a lot of notes coming at you. You have to figure out which one to listen for, and use that to gauge the pitch at each lug. Also be aware that lug tension at one lug has a drastic effect on the lug across from it, and a slightly less drastic effect on the lugs on either side of it, and it will still have varying degrees of effect on the rest of the lugs. Know which lug to tweak! It takes practice.

And keep your room dead. Try bringing gobos close in on the kit.
Old 1st June 2020
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
All of @ Poopypants info is right on. As for hats, yeah, 2002 heavy are about a million miles from the sound on your first example. Find light vintage Zildjians. Play lightly. Tune down and muffle things. Moongel is great. Old School method is to fold a paper towel to about 1x2 and tape the perimeter to the head. If you want to get really thuddy (like that Strokes tune) put Evans Hydraulic heads on the toms.
Old 2nd June 2020
  #6
@ Poopypants , that clip of James Gadson with Bill Withers (argulably my favorite artist of all time) is so nice. Such a light touch. Love that smile.

Those tuning pointers you gave me are spot on. Spent a LONG time getting my high tom sorted. Lots to listen for.. definitely noticed the sympathetic relationship between opposite lugs as you mentioned. Definitely sounds better now to my ears. Still working on muffling..

Removed the reso head on the kick. Doesn't sound like much in the room, but once it's in logic, it's night and day. What a difference. Thank you!

My Kick-in consistently sounded, uh.. hollow I guess is a word I would use, with that front-head on.. with it open, I now get a much more solid "basketball" like thud/smack. The blanket and weight adds a little body. Huge improvement. One day I'll have to try a wood kick.. and a 47fet, but this is certainly the best sound I've gotten (so far). Thank you! Pulled the gobo's in tight. It all sounds more controlled. Also finally tried my md441 on snare bottom. This is something I've meant to try for a while, but man. So controlled and articulate. I should have done that ages ago. Didn't realize it would sound so much better to me than the top.

I'm gonna order a combo pack of the BFSDs for snare and maybe a tom. Worth seeing how it affects the sound at those prices. Also going to order a kickpro drum pillow after reading some good things.

@ Drumsound . Thank you so much for chiming in!
I'm definitely going to look for a set of light vintage Zildjians. Is there a particular size or model you prefer? I guess articulation is my primary concern.

Will def. look into those hydraulic heads if I can't find the muffling I'm looking for with what I've got.

Thank you both so much!

Awesome!
Old 2nd June 2020
  #7
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Drumsound's Avatar
A lot of the older Zildjian don't have models and weight written on them. That thing came around in the 70s I think. Look for cymbals without printing, if possible. I have what I think are 70s 15" hats that are wonderful. They are light weight, and just sound amazing. They aren't too loud, and the half open slosh sounds washy, but not harsh. Closed they have a nice, but not pingy articulation. Technique, of course, is also important. I've worked very hard to NOT bash hats, like so many do.

I believe there are some modern models that are thinner and meant to sound 'vintage.' I played the Sweet hats once and they sounded nice. I think there was also a pair made in conjunction with Steve Gadd, but I don't recall the name.

Some of the modern brands made in Turkey can yield nice results, though I haven't played the hats, I've heard some. https://www.hazelshould.com/ is a good resource.
Old 4th June 2020
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
A lot of the older Zildjian don't have models and weight written on them. That thing came around in the 70s I think. Look for cymbals without printing, if possible. I have what I think are 70s 15" hats that are wonderful. They are light weight, and just sound amazing. They aren't too loud, and the half open slosh sounds washy, but not harsh. Closed they have a nice, but not pingy articulation. Technique, of course, is also important. I've worked very hard to NOT bash hats, like so many do.

I believe there are some modern models that are thinner and meant to sound 'vintage.' I played the Sweet hats once and they sounded nice. I think there was also a pair made in conjunction with Steve Gadd, but I don't recall the name.

Some of the modern brands made in Turkey can yield nice results, though I haven't played the hats, I've heard some. https://www.hazelshould.com/ is a good resource.
Thank you so much for the follow up Drumsound!
To start with I think I'll have a look around for a set of those 70's Zildjians and work on my light touch.

Lots of options right here in town to check out I'm sure .. just gotta wait out this quarantine business I guess..

Will check all of them out!
.. Thank you~
Old 18th June 2020
  #9
@ Poopypants

I added some of those BFSDs and I love what they're doing to the snare. Gonna pick up a set for the toms.
Opening the kick made a massive difference like you suggested. I still hope to get better at preparing and recording a nice sounding kick with a resonant head.. but I was really struggling to get a usable kick of any kind at my current skill level and gear, and removing the head completely changed that. thumbsup !
@ Drumsound
I picked up a pair of patina'd set of light 70's zildjians (ghost stamp era. 973/1007). I was a little unsure about such a small weight difference, but they were local and seemed reasonable. I like them just fine, though unsurprisingly, they don't make me want to retire the cracked rando paiste set.. they make me want to mount both because they sound so different. Go figure. Glad I got 'em! They sound good. I wonder if I should clean them..


There are so many variables recording the kit, but I'm really enjoying myself. I already feel more confident about putting down drums that will inspire me to write, which was the point.

I did a bunch of testing with different setups, very tight gobos, a little more open. Various levels of muffling. Tried a sound blanket as a rug and a bare hardwood floor. Would love a small persian rug under the kick to protect the floor at least. I've tended towards the km84 pair in x/y out in front of the kit, with Beta52 about half-way inside the open kick into an api 512v, md441 under the snare, gefell mv692/m70 above the snare beside, or above the hat is sounding real nice. Articulate on the hat esp... still playing with this one. I've tried adding a dynamic close on the snare as well, both sm7b and 57... I'm still surprised how nice that md441 can sound under the snare. I've also tried a couple of mono ldcs out front and so far I've tended to like what they've added, particularly the 87 and the telefunken ar-51.

Still lots to learn and so much to experiment and play with, but how exciting that my results so far are better than I was expecting!

Thanks so much folks!!
Old 18th June 2020
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
@ Poopypants

I added some of those BFSDs and I love what they're doing to the snare. Gonna pick up a set for the toms.
Opening the kick made a massive difference like you suggested. I still hope to get better at preparing and recording a nice sounding kick with a resonant head.. but I was really struggling to get a usable kick of any kind at my current skill level and gear, and removing the head completely changed that. thumbsup !
@ Drumsound
I picked up a pair of patina'd set of light 70's zildjians (ghost stamp era. 973/1007). I was a little unsure about such a small weight difference, but they were local and seemed reasonable. I like them just fine, though unsurprisingly, they don't make me want to retire the cracked rando paiste set.. they make me want to mount both because they sound so different. Go figure. Glad I got 'em! They sound good. I wonder if I should clean them..


There are so many variables recording the kit, but I'm really enjoying myself. I already feel more confident about putting down drums that will inspire me to write, which was the point.

I did a bunch of testing with different setups, very tight gobos, a little more open. Various levels of muffling. Tried a sound blanket as a rug and a bare hardwood floor. Would love a small persian rug under the kick to protect the floor at least. I've tended towards the km84 pair in x/y out in front of the kit, with Beta52 about half-way inside the open kick into an api 512v, md441 under the snare, gefell mv692/m70 above the snare beside, or above the hat is sounding real nice. Articulate on the hat esp... still playing with this one. I've tried adding a dynamic close on the snare as well, both sm7b and 57... I'm still surprised how nice that md441 can sound under the snare. I've also tried a couple of mono ldcs out front and so far I've tended to like what they've added, particularly the 87 and the telefunken ar-51.

Still lots to learn and so much to experiment and play with, but how exciting that my results so far are better than I was expecting!

Thanks so much folks!!
Personally, I'm not a fan of cleaning cymbals. I'm actually considering burying one of few brand new cymbals I've bought in the last several years. The old jazz drummers used to bury cymbals in the yard for a month to get them dirty. I have an 18" A Custom Fast Crash that I wish weren't quite at bright on the top end.
Old 18th June 2020
  #11
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
@ Poopypants

I added some of those BFSDs and I love what they're doing to the snare. Gonna pick up a set for the toms.
Opening the kick made a massive difference like you suggested. I still hope to get better at preparing and recording a nice sounding kick with a resonant head.. but I was really struggling to get a usable kick of any kind at my current skill level and gear, and removing the head completely changed that. thumbsup !
@ Drumsound
I picked up a pair of patina'd set of light 70's zildjians (ghost stamp era. 973/1007). I was a little unsure about such a small weight difference, but they were local and seemed reasonable. I like them just fine, though unsurprisingly, they don't make me want to retire the cracked rando paiste set.. they make me want to mount both because they sound so different. Go figure. Glad I got 'em! They sound good. I wonder if I should clean them..


There are so many variables recording the kit, but I'm really enjoying myself. I already feel more confident about putting down drums that will inspire me to write, which was the point.

I did a bunch of testing with different setups, very tight gobos, a little more open. Various levels of muffling. Tried a sound blanket as a rug and a bare hardwood floor. Would love a small persian rug under the kick to protect the floor at least. I've tended towards the km84 pair in x/y out in front of the kit, with Beta52 about half-way inside the open kick into an api 512v, md441 under the snare, gefell mv692/m70 above the snare beside, or above the hat is sounding real nice. Articulate on the hat esp... still playing with this one. I've tried adding a dynamic close on the snare as well, both sm7b and 57... I'm still surprised how nice that md441 can sound under the snare. I've also tried a couple of mono ldcs out front and so far I've tended to like what they've added, particularly the 87 and the telefunken ar-51.

Still lots to learn and so much to experiment and play with, but how exciting that my results so far are better than I was expecting!

Thanks so much folks!!

Damn, you've got great gear. And you're doing the right thing by trying different things. I think 441 is my favorite top snare mic. I only use it when I'm the drummer, though. I don't want it getting hit.

The out front mic can be weird. You can't easily get it in phase with the kick and snare at the same time.
Old 18th June 2020
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Personally, I'm not a fan of cleaning cymbals. I'm actually considering burying one of few brand new cymbals I've bought in the last several years. The old jazz drummers used to bury cymbals in the yard for a month to get them dirty. I have an 18" A Custom Fast Crash that I wish weren't quite at bright on the top end.
burying cymbals mainly affects the looks (while exposing very thin cymbals such as splashes (which became somewhat dull after being hit on end) to sunlight indeed affects their sound a bit).


[i was paiste's international artist relation manager in the 90's and as such part of our 'sound development team' and also showed countless people (parts of) our manufacturing process (which i of course also had to learn to some degree but mainly to thoroughly understand) so i guess i am in the position of saying that i know (quite) a bit about cymbal manufacturing/how process applied to cymbals affect their sound - oxidation (which is what you get from burying) clearly isn't amongst them]
Old 18th June 2020
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
Hello!

Please let me know if this is out of place here (perhaps this belongs in the Newbie forum instead?) but I come seeking advice for helping to improve my drum tracking sound.

Caveat, I am not a drummer. Just an independent artist and home recording hack who would like to eventually get a better drum sound out of my home studio. My recording setup is pretty solid (fairly decent room treatment and a decent selection of mics and outboard all going into an RME UFX+).

If I had to guess, I assume my primary problems are related to setup and tuning, but would love some guidance as to where to focus my energy for the biggest impact on improving my overall kit tracking sound. After doing some research I figure the areas that may need attention are:

a) drum tuning
b) head selection
c) different kit/shells
d) room issues
e) mic technique issues
f) other??

While I figure my issues are probably more related to technique than *****', it's probably still worth mentioning the kit itself.

My kit is a badged set of blue ludwig vistalites that I picked up nearly 15 years ago from CL.. though I have no way to verify their authenticity. The sale included a set of paiste 2002 heavy 14" hats (the top hat has a 1" crack at the edge) amongst other things. I'm sure that crack isn't helping.

My main problems:

I find the kick and toms far too boomy sounding with an overly long decay. I've got some Evans EMAD 2 heads on the kick, with pairs of Remo Pinstripe(batter)/Ambassador(reso) heads on the toms.

The Hi Hat sounds pretty awful generally speaking (I'm sure that crack doesn't help) and I would happily save for something better if I had any idea what to replace 'em with (and whether to replace the stand as well). I'd like access to a more subtle, nuanced sound in the hats. I realize that this may be more representative of my ability as a player than my kit or setup.. if so, that's fair.

The snare, also a blue vistalite, was a separate purchase from ebay. It rings a little too much, but is probably the least of my problems. It's equipped with the same ludwig weather master heads it came with.

Lots of room for improvement here obviously.

I've experimented with a variety of mic techniques including Glynn John's style setups (using Redd Mic w. Telefunken AR51) and X/Y style OH setups (using KM84 pair) with inside kick (MD441, SM7B & Beta 52) and close-ish top snare mics (mv692/m70, md441). If money were no object I'd have also tried a 47 Fet on the kick, but alas...

Anyways.

I'm sure there is no end to the things I could do to improve the sound I'm getting, but I'd love to hear from you how to best use my time & energy for the biggest impact here.


Here are a few references for the kind of drum sounds I'd like to get closer to:

Currently loving the hat and snare sound on Khruangbin's "So We Won't Forget"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo4KMGiy--Y

While certainly less modern sounding, I've always loved the sound of the kit, particularly the snare, on this Barry White classic (playing your game baby):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQIdpBAdTw


Finally, with regards to Toms, why do all my reference tracks sound so dead while mine sound so boomy? Here's a timestamped link to a song from the new Strokes record. Not necessarily my favorite song, but how do they get such a dry, non-boomy tom sound here (55 second mark) ? Please don't say drum substitution (unless you tell me how to get such clean sounding samples myself .)

https://youtu.be/2jna3dWEnzo?t=55

I assume the answer is less about gating than it is about mic technique, room, tuning etc.. but feel free to tell me how wrong I am. I'm here to learn. I want to get better at recording a drum kit. If you think I need to replace the kit, tell me. If you think I need to better understand drum tuning, tell me. If you think it's the room, or mic technique, I'm all ears.

Finally, I've attached a couple of samples of my more recent attempts at recording the kit. One of the samples includes a copy that was sent through a pair of RS124s which I thought made it sound a little more exciting and coherent. I like using outboard compression to bring up the room and add desirable harmonic content, but would love to hear what you think even more..!

Thank you for reading!

PS. I recognize that my lack of ability to actually play the drums may be the real problem here, in which case, again, please feel free to let me know.


pps. I'm sorry there are no tom examples. I'll update this with some samples when I can.
add...

- choice of sticks
- playing technique ("stick control")
- positioning/angling of instruments
- acoustics (mainly in terms of lf and reflections)
- engineering principals (mainly in terms of dynamics* and reverb)
- critical listening

...to your list!



* compressors are both dynamic but also rhythmic tools!

___


p.s. i much prefer using a modified gj-setup with equidistant lcr mics over the more typical 2-mic approach...
Old 18th June 2020
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
burying cymbals mainly affects the looks (while exposing very thin cymbals such as splashes (which became somewhat dull after being hit on end) to sunlight indeed affects their sound a bit).


[i was paiste's international artist relation manager in the 90's and as such part of our 'sound development team' and also showed countless people (parts of) our manufacturing process (which i of course also had to learn to some degree but mainly to thoroughly understand) so i guess i am in the position of saying that i know (quite) a bit about cymbal manufacturing/how process applied to cymbals affect their sound - oxidation (which is what you get from burying) clearly isn't amongst them]
I know you've got that in your history. Are you saying that dirt doesn't effect the sound? Sorry, its late and I've had an intense night, so I might not be catching your meaning.
Old 18th June 2020
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I know you've got that in your history. Are you saying that dirt doesn't effect the sound? Sorry, its late and I've had an intense night, so I might not be catching your meaning.
same for dirt as for oxidation: they both only have a very marginal effect, the less the larger/heavier the cymbal...

...while continuous use/playing does have a clear effect: think of it as of constant/repeated re-hammering!

hammering (besides the alloy, diameter, thickness, form, heat etc.) is one of the most important if not THE principal way of how to define/shape the sound of a cymbal.
Old 18th June 2020
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
same for dirt as for oxidation: they both only have a very marginal effect, the less the larger/heavier the cymbal...

...while continuous use/playing does have a clear effect: think of it as of constant/repeated re-hammering! hammering (besides the alloy, diameter, thickness, form, heat etc.) is one of the most important if not THE principal way of how to define/shape the sound of a cymbal.
Thanks, man. I just know the old legend of the jazz players.
Old 18th June 2020
  #17
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Thanks, man. I just know the old legend of the jazz players.
I had a student do a "surprise" cymbal polishing for me as a gift of appreciation. I did not like it. At the time, I was unaware of a need for blind testing, so I admit the shiny glare off the cymbals may have merely contributed to a placebo. However, since that time I have never touched my cymbals with anything stronger than a damp paper towel.

That being said, I never buried them in the back yard, either. I always had a daydream of moving into a house once formerly inhabited by a jazz musician and in the process of planting a garden discovering a trove of really old K-Zildjians.

It would be interesting to take some well-patina'ed cymbals, record them on a fixed stand, polish them and then record again. And then do some blind listening.
Old 18th June 2020
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I had a student do a "surprise" cymbal polishing for me as a gift of appreciation. I did not like it. At the time, I was unaware of a need for blind testing, so I admit the shiny glare off the cymbals may have merely contributed to a placebo. However, since that time I have never touched my cymbals with anything stronger than a damp paper towel.

That being said, I never buried them in the back yard, either. I always had a daydream of moving into a house once formerly inhabited by a jazz musician and in the process of planting a garden discovering a trove of really old K-Zildjians.

It would be interesting to take some well-patina'ed cymbals, record them on a fixed stand, polish them and then record again. And then do some blind listening.
That would be the ultimate score/bonus of a new house.

I was thinking if I buried the cymbal I'm thinking of, that I'd do a before and after recording. Part of the problem is that I never remember to even bring the cymbal home. And I'd need to buy or borrow a shovel...
Old 18th June 2020
  #19
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I think the burying thing is more of a tale than truth, but I'm sure a few people have done it.

I wash my cymbals periodically with small amounts of beer and booze as drinks are handed around the bandstand...
Old 19th June 2020
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
That would be the ultimate score/bonus of a new house.

I was thinking if I buried the cymbal I'm thinking of, that I'd do a before and after recording.
The benefit of doing the experiment my way is that there would only be a half hour between takes. Record a tarnished cymbal, polish it, record it again. Whereas your experiment is record a cymbal, bury it in the back yard for 3 months, and then don't touch your mics, don't touch your cymbal stand, don't touch the settings on the preamp - for three months.

Quote:
Part of the problem is that I never remember to even bring the cymbal home.
I would forget where I buried it. I just know it.

Quote:
And I'd need to buy or borrow a shovel...
for extra fun, bury your cymbals in the back yard very late at night, and make just enough noise to wake the neighbors.
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Old 19th June 2020
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
The benefit of doing the experiment my way is that there would only be a half hour between takes. Record a tarnished cymbal, polish it, record it again. Whereas your experiment is record a cymbal, bury it in the back yard for 3 months, and then don't touch your mics, don't touch your cymbal stand, don't touch the settings on the preamp - for three months.
Very true. I'd attempt some some sort of measure to the mic from cymbal. No gigs means the stand isn't really mvoing.

QUOTE=joeq;14808328]I would forget where I buried it. I just know it.[/QUOTE]
I didn't even think of that. I probably would, too. Of course, my yard is tiny. I can literally stretch my arms and touch the back of my garage and with the other hand, touch my fence.

fQUOTE=joeq;14808328]or extra fun, bury your cymbals in the back yard very late at night, and make just enough noise to wake the neighbors.[/QUOTE]

OOooo good idea.
Old 19th June 2020
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Of course, my yard is tiny. I can literally stretch my arms and touch the back of my garage and with the other hand, touch my fence.

I'm picturing a man with abnormally long arms.
Old 19th June 2020
  #23
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
I'm picturing a man with abnormally long arms.
I can appreciate it because I too have a ridiculously small yard. My metaphor is that if I got one of those riding mowers, I could start it up and then turn it off, and my yard would be mowed.

No need to put it into gear.

Nevertheless, if I buried some cymbals, am sure I would figure out a way to outsmart myself and thus be unable to find them later. I know, I will bury them in the driveway instead.
Old 19th June 2020
  #24
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
I'm picturing a man with abnormally long arms.
Nah, average sized dago guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I can appreciate it because I too have a ridiculously small yard. My metaphor is that if I got one of those riding mowers, I could start it up and then turn it off, and my yard would be mowed.

No need to put it into gear.

Nevertheless, if I buried some cymbals, am sure I would figure out a way to outsmart myself and thus be unable to find them later. I know, I will bury them in the driveway instead.
Are we leading parallel lives?
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