The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
What kit to get to upgrade from Sonor 3007 and 70's Ludwig?
Old 21st May 2020
  #1
What kit to get to upgrade from Sonor 3007 and 70's Ludwig?

Hello there,

I have a Sonor 3007 kit and an old Ludwig from the early 70's in orange cortex.

I want to upgrade the Sonor, because it is actually a pain to tune. The Ludwig sounds good, but one of the tom is also a pain to tune. Now, I don't know if my Ludwig is as good as what I am looking into getting, so I would love some suggestions.

I already have good snares that I am happy with. Looking for shells.

Sonor is: 20", 10", 12", 14", 18"
Ludwig is: 22", 12", 13", 16"

What I am looking into that is within my budget (used kits):

Yamaha Oak Custom: 20x17, 8x7, 12x9, 13x13
Yamaha Beech Custom: 22", 10", 12", 14", 16"
Sonor Delite: 20", 8", 10", 14"

I wanted to spend money on a Recording Custom, but I decided that I don't have enough clientèle these days to grant such an expense, as my own band is taking much of the time, but I do want some upgrade from the kits I have, if one of these is considered an upgrade. Another reason for ditching the RC for now is that I want to spend some of the saved cash to enhance my room, which would be better than getting a RC.

Any help would be appreciated! I record mostly rock, folk rock, metal and blues. Not afraid to use samples when needed, although I prefer not to.

Thank you!

Last edited by CurseesConnect; 29th May 2020 at 03:50 AM..
Old 22nd May 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
JohnRick's Avatar
Get a Premier Genista (the old 90s UK made) if you find one. They are as good as or better than Yamaha Recording Customs from the same era – particularly since Yamaha joined hand with Premier in the late 80s, from which the legendary Genista and Signia lines were made. They used Yamaha's equipment. One of many distinguishing features are the diagonal seams and the slightly undersized shells that makes them easy to tune.
Old 22nd May 2020
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRick View Post
Get a Premier Genista (the old 90s UK made) if you find one. They are as good as or better than Yamaha Recording Customs from the same era – particularly since Yamaha joined hand with Premier in the late 80s, from which the legendary Genista and Signia lines were made. They used Yamaha's equipment. One of many distinguishing features are the diagonal seams and the slightly undersized shells that makes them easy to tune.
Thanks. What would you choose between the three options I have?
Old 22nd May 2020
  #4
Lives for gear
 
JohnRick's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurseesConnect View Post
Thanks. What would you choose between the three options I have?
Depends on whether you want a 20" or a 22" kick. No real experience with the two Yamahas, but a while ago I was really into getting an Oak custom (which I didn't), since they are of a completely different wood, and apparently loud and cutting.


But since you were considering the YRC and maybe want an all-rounder, the Beech kit would suit you more. Should be in between birch and maple soundwise as I understand it.
Old 24th May 2020
  #5
Gear Addict
 
Suspects's Avatar
 

I'm a total fan of the Oak Custom kits; they are loud and aggressive and great for recording. That being said, the sizes of the of the kit you listed does nothing for me. If those are the three kits you have access to, I would vote for the Beech Custom as the shell sizes area little more conventional, and the floor toms give you some flexibility. (BTW - the Beech Custom configuration is what I have with my Oak Custom kit).


Dave/Suspect Studios
Old 25th May 2020
  #6
Thanks for the help guys!

I decided to go with the Sonor, because it was recommended by some of my drummer friends AND I can bring it back before 30 days if I don't like them. If they don't fit the bill for me, I'll get a RC.

Now... maybe recommendations for a good top end snare? Black Beauty?

I have a Ludwig 402 14x5.5, a Tama Starclassic in Brass 14x6.5, and a Sonor 3007 maple 14x5.5. They actually all sound very good, but was thinking about getting one high end snare that could be a good all-rounder. Thoughts?
Old 25th May 2020
  #7
Gear Addict
 
Suspects's Avatar
 

You can't go wrong with a Black Beauty, it's an industry standard for a reason. What kind of a budget are you looking at for the snare? The single ply snares from Craviotto and Noble & Cooley are outstanding drums, but they are not cheap....

Also you keep referencing Recording Custom drums, are you talking old or new? You are aware that they are different, right? Around 2016-2017 Yamaha redesigned the series with the assistance of Steve Gadd. The new drums have 30 degree bearing edges and the shells are constructed from North American birch, while the classic RC drums had 45 degree bearing edges and were constructed from Japanese Hakkaido birch. Haven't heard them side by side to determine the sonic differences, but thought I'd pass the info along...

Dave/Suspect Studios
Old 25th May 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Poopypants's Avatar
 

Ludwig 402 is 6.5. The 400 is 5.5. Figure out which one you have and get the other one. Despite being nearly identical, the difference is enough. When you talk about all arounders, these are the two. Acrolites are great too.

Your old Ludwig kit is worth keeping if it's in decent shape. I have my doubts about the 15. I don't believe that would have come with the kit. It's possible, too, that most Ludwig 15's were concert toms, but they did make them two headed, just not in the numbers that they made, 12's, 13's, 14's. The Ludwig kit should be good with a lot of the styles you're recording. Might not be great for metal unless you're going super retro.

I think your current Sonor kit is a student or budget kit. Doesn't mean it's bad, but it's not where I'd personally go when choosing a kit. I personally don't like the sizes of your proposed new Sonor kit, but I'm old and any tom smaller than 12 is a coffee can to me. 14 floor toms are also too small, unless you're a bopper.
Old 29th May 2020
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suspects View Post
You can't go wrong with a Black Beauty, it's an industry standard for a reason. What kind of a budget are you looking at for the snare? The single ply snares from Craviotto and Noble & Cooley are outstanding drums, but they are not cheap....

Also you keep referencing Recording Custom drums, are you talking old or new? You are aware that they are different, right? Around 2016-2017 Yamaha redesigned the series with the assistance of Steve Gadd. The new drums have 30 degree bearing edges and the shells are constructed from North American birch, while the classic RC drums had 45 degree bearing edges and were constructed from Japanese Hakkaido birch. Haven't heard them side by side to determine the sonic differences, but thought I'd pass the info along...

Dave/Suspect Studios
Thanks Dave. I am talking about a brand new one. I have 30 days to try the Sonor Delite, and should arrive tomorrow. If it doesn't fit the bill, I'll go with the brand new RC.
Old 29th May 2020
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post
Ludwig 402 is 6.5. The 400 is 5.5. Figure out which one you have and get the other one. Despite being nearly identical, the difference is enough. When you talk about all arounders, these are the two. Acrolites are great too.

Your old Ludwig kit is worth keeping if it's in decent shape. I have my doubts about the 15. I don't believe that would have come with the kit. It's possible, too, that most Ludwig 15's were concert toms, but they did make them two headed, just not in the numbers that they made, 12's, 13's, 14's. The Ludwig kit should be good with a lot of the styles you're recording. Might not be great for metal unless you're going super retro.

I think your current Sonor kit is a student or budget kit. Doesn't mean it's bad, but it's not where I'd personally go when choosing a kit. I personally don't like the sizes of your proposed new Sonor kit, but I'm old and any tom smaller than 12 is a coffee can to me. 14 floor toms are also too small, unless you're a bopper.
Sorry, my sizes were completely off, huge brain fart. It's 22, 12,13,16.

The Sonor Delite does have smaller shells, but the person I buy it from told me that they could be tuned low because of the reinforced rings and really thin shells. We'll see . Thanks for the help!
Old 29th May 2020
  #11
Gear Addict
 
Suspects's Avatar
 

I'm not really a fan of 8" toms (apparently neither is Poopypants) because in general the tuning range is not very wide. Maybe the reinforcing ring will help, but in my experience (I had an 8"X8" in my Recording Custom rig a few years back) tuning small drums low makes them lose definition and attack and they sound like oatmeal boxes. But like you said, you've got 30 days to experiment. I'd start straightaway on that 8"....

On the snare issue, it occurred to me that a Black Beauty is not going to be night-and-day different from the two metal snares you have - the brass shell may be a little "sweeter" and more musical than the Ludwig, and maybe have a little less bite and shell ring than the Starclassic Brass. Tonally it sort of fits between the two snares. Still a great drum, but the new ones are stupidly expensive. If it were me, (and this is Gearslutz) I'd look for a reasonably priced used 6-1/2" X 14" Black Beauty and focus on a high quality wood snare to complement the Sonor you already have in order to get a wider palette of tones to choose from...


Dave/Suspect Studios
Old 29th May 2020
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suspects View Post
I'm not really a fan of 8" toms (apparently neither is Poopypants) because in general the tuning range is not very wide. Maybe the reinforcing ring will help, but in my experience (I had an 8"X8" in my Recording Custom rig a few years back) tuning small drums low makes them lose definition and attack and they sound like oatmeal boxes. But like you said, you've got 30 days to experiment. I'd start straightaway on that 8"....

On the snare issue, it occurred to me that a Black Beauty is not going to be night-and-day different from the two metal snares you have - the brass shell may be a little "sweeter" and more musical than the Ludwig, and maybe have a little less bite and shell ring than the Starclassic Brass. Tonally it sort of fits between the two snares. Still a great drum, but the new ones are stupidly expensive. If it were me, (and this is Gearslutz) I'd look for a reasonably priced used 6-1/2" X 14" Black Beauty and focus on a high quality wood snare to complement the Sonor you already have in order to get a wider palette of tones to choose from...


Dave/Suspect Studios
Thanks Dave! Just so happens that I have found a Sonor Protean Gavin Harrison snare for cheap. It's birch and has different configuration with different strainers and different sized dampening rings. Should fit the bill with all the other snares.

What head would you recommend for the 8" tom? I got an Ambassador coated for it, because it has a pinstripe which I was told should probably be changed, but I am curious what you would choose

Thanks for all the help! I didn't receive the kit yet, Covid-19 delays, so it'll be around next week.
Old 29th May 2020
  #13
Gear Addict
 
Suspects's Avatar
 

I believe I used clear Emperors top and bottom on the RC 8". I would get a second coated Ambassador so you can change the bottom head out as well to experiment on your drum. I'm currently using clear Emperors top and clear Ambassadors bottom on all the toms for my Oak Custom, Maple Custom Absolute and DW "Pure Oak" Collector's Series kits. They sound really good on the 10" toms on all those kits with a very modern sound, but I can't speak to an 8" tom. The coated heads will give you a slightly warmer and more vintage sound. The good news is that 8" heads are pretty cheap, so you can afford to experiment. Good luck in your search...


Dave/Suspect Studios
Old 2nd June 2020
  #14
Little update. I received the Sonor Delite and much to my disappointment, there are some dents on the 10" tom batter side bearing edge. So it's going back. I decided to save a little more and wait for a RC instead.
📝 Reply
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump