The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Anyone here record cymbals as an overdub?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Lives for gear
Anyone here record cymbals as an overdub?

Watching Eric Valentine's videos and there is no doubt the amount of smashing you can go for when you record cymbals as an overdub.

Anyone here done it? What's the process like? I imagine you'd still want to play something (a piece of foam on the hats, ride, crashes maybe too).

Did you use a click?

Was it worth it/would you do it again?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Haven't watched those videos but I have done quite a bit of cymbal overdubs on certain projects. It depends on the project.

Smashing?

There are advantages and disadvantages, IME. The amount of separation and ability to do more with the overdubs can work against you if you're not careful. For example, you can end up with overdubbed kit sounds sounding "disconnected" if processed too much or too differently from the rest of the kit. But maybe you want that sound?

Click? Depends on how much it helps you lock in, if at all. Also, are you willing to edit in post to line things up? Many drummers have a harder time "syncing" the cymbals to the rest of the kit compared to playing everything at once, IME. It's a different way of playing, and it DOES take practice to get good at it. Usually. YMMV
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
I have done it, and yes I did tape a square of foam to my leg - just to be sure.
Not sure about 'smashing'. Smashing often sounds bad, whether overdubbed or not.
In the end, the tone and velocity of the cymbals probably needs to match the kit sound, even if recorded separately.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I have done it, and yes I did tape a square of foam to my leg - just to be sure.
Not sure about 'smashing'. Smashing often sounds bad, whether overdubbed or not.
In the end, the tone and velocity of the cymbals probably needs to match the kit sound, even if recorded separately.
I meant smashing in the compression sense, post-recording. You can nuke a room mic without cymbals getting in the way.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Oh yes. In one instance the producer definitely wanted to feature the room mics without very loud clangy cymbals getting in the way. So we overdubbed hi-hats and cymbals.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Oh yes. In one instance the producer definitely wanted to feature the room mics without very loud clangy cymbals getting in the way. So we overdubbed hi-hats and cymbals.
Did you have a click? I'm kind of thinking of laying it down in three passes:

1. "meter" cymbals: hi-hats/ride to create a click
2. drums
3. crashes
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
I played kit to a click, then overdubbed hi-hats and all cymbals.
I think that is the easiest, quickest way to do it.
In order to be authentic you don't want hi-hat playing through drum fills, or hi-hat and crashes happening at the same time.
But, I guess there are no rules.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

I think if drummers had four hands in real life, they'd use them. See no harm in a bit of that fakery in a recording if it benefits the music.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
See no harm in a bit of that fakery in a recording if it benefits the music.
Well, every picture tells a story (don't it)?

It just so happens that the cymbals on Rod Stewart's "Maggie May" were overdubbed :

"Drummer Micky Waller often arrived at recording sessions with the expectation that a drum kit would be provided and, for "Maggie May", it was - except that no cymbals could be found. The cymbal crashes had to be overdubbed separately some days later."
-From Wikipedia's entry for "Maggie May"
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Quote:
Anyone here done it? What's the process like? I imagine you'd still want to play something (a piece of foam on the hats, ride, crashes maybe too).

Did you use a click?

Was it worth it/would you do it again?
Definitely worth considering depending on the track.

The big advantage is in the separation and control you get when it comes to mix time.
Additionally , you don't get crash and ride cymbals in the drum tracks which means you can be more surgical with them and compress them separately from the cymbals.
It was done a lot in the eighties but not so much in the nineties.

'Taxman' by The Beatles is one of the earliest songs I can think of with overdubbed crashes and some ride.
Certainly makes things tighter as a lot of drummers speed up just prior to a fill.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Let's not forget that the modern drum set was developed so that one person could "play the drums" (and save money).

Before this development, the typical setup was to have different people playing Snare(s), Bass Drum, Tom-toms, Cymbals, etc...

In a world where its pretty commonplace to overdub (and stack) guitars, vocals, or whatnot, I really don't see how overdubbing cymbals could really defined as "trickery"!
.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
On the Eric Valentine Queens of the Stoneage record, Dave Grohl played electronic cymbals during basic tracking. Part way through overdubbing cymbals they transferred from tape to Pro Tools, because it was getting really frustrating getting everything to lock up. The decision was made to allow nudging of cymbals here and there.

One of these days, I'll try cutting that way, just to say I have done it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I think if drummers had four hands in real life, they'd use them. See no harm in a bit of that fakery in a recording if it benefits the music.
You know that's right!

--
25 or 6 to 4 has 2 drumset parts. Not a drums then cymbals thing, but 2 passes, with Danny playing 2 different drum parts.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
Lives for gear
 
mbvoxx's Avatar
click - always
overdub cymbals - done it many times and prefer it when critical control of the cymbals is preferred.
what the drummer hits or doesn't hit depends on the drummer
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump