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2nd drum kit for the studio, your thoughts please.
Old 10th April 2019
  #1
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2nd drum kit for the studio, your thoughts please.

Hi all

The current in-house kit at my studio is a Yamaha Oak Custom comprising of a 22" kick, 16" floor tom, 12" and 13" rack toms (will maybe add a 10" and 14" at some point to provide some further options).

I've had this kit for a few years now and really happy with how it sounds and records and I regularly receive positive feedback form drummers that use it. Anyhow, although the Yamaha Oak Custom has proven quite a versatile kit I've been thinking of get another kit for the studio just to provide an alternative option and broaden the sonic palette so to speak and like the idea of maybe a vintage Gretch or Ludwig though by no means restricting myself to this and keeping options open.

However, my main thing is this; I feel it makes sense to go with a different size kick drum to my Yamaha kit but should I go smaller to say a 20" or go in the other direction to something larger such as a 24" or even a 26". Although a 20" kick can record lovely, my gut instinct is to go larger to say a 24" but I would really appreciate some opinions on this. What do you guys think?
Old 10th April 2019
  #2
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

A vintage Gretsch or Ludwig 22 will not sound the same as your Yamaha (or each other) so don't worry about the size. However, grabbing up multiple sized kick drums (and snares and toms...) can give you more choices.

Grab whatever comes your way. If someone's got a good vintage kit for a decent price, grab it. If someone's got a big old 28 with calf heads, grab it. If you don't already have a Supraphonic or Acrolite, grab those whenever they show up for a good price. Maybe someone will have a Yamaha Oak in a 20 that you'd find useful.

Of course, all of this depends on what kind of music you usually make.
Old 11th April 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post
A vintage Gretsch or Ludwig 22 will not sound the same as your Yamaha (or each other) so don't worry about the size. However, grabbing up multiple sized kick drums (and snares and toms...) can give you more choices.

Grab whatever comes your way. If someone's got a good vintage kit for a decent price, grab it. If someone's got a big old 28 with calf heads, grab it. If you don't already have a Supraphonic or Acrolite, grab those whenever they show up for a good price. Maybe someone will have a Yamaha Oak in a 20 that you'd find useful.

Of course, all of this depends on what kind of music you usually make.
Yeah, I appreciate that a vintage Gretch or Ludwig 22 isn't going to sound the same as my Yamaha but to me it makes sense to opt for a different size as well in order to get something as contrasting (though still usable) as possible to the Yammy. If money and room wasn't as issue then I would most certainly like to acquire a number of different kits though realistically I am probably going to be restricted to just one additional kit so with this in mind I'm just trying to establish what would be the most versatile for the studio while at the same time providing a distinct contrast to what I already have. There are obviously so many options here but at least if I can determine what size would be best suited at least that will provide me with some focus to my search.
Old 11th April 2019
  #4
I agree with multiple kicks and toms for the yamaha you already have. I have 5 toms and 3 diff kick for a yamaha rc and that lets us choose different “kits” depending on what is wanted sound wise. A added 20” and 24” with the toms you want to add would be a killer studio set up. I have a 22 and two 24’s with different depths but would get a 20 if I did it over as some drummers really like the pedal/head response of a 20. I also agree a vintage kit may give you the different sound you need. Depends on what styles you record I guess. Best of luck.
Old 11th April 2019
  #5
Oak is pretty dark. I'd go for another kick in maple or birch. Only you can decide 24" or 20". i.e. doing more Zeppelin flavor, 24", jazzy, 20".

Unless the toms are extended/power I wouldn't worry about toms. Like the poster above, a variety of snares, kicks, and cymbals and make any "kit."
Old 11th April 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
Personally, I’d go with a 20,12,14 since you’ve got the bigger sized stuff covered.

If buying used, it’s hard to beat vintage Rogers and Ludwig. I see kits and kicks between 20-24 pretty often from those two brands. If you want to buy new, Ludwig has the legacy maple and classic maple that could handle any genre. There are too many brands to choose from on the new market.

On a note to size, get what you feel is going to fill the niche and get utilized. Don’t overlook depth of drums either. What sound/style are you hoping to capture that your 22 can’t deliver? What are your clients/potential clients more likely to use?

Your room may or may not work well with larger kicks. I’ve heard a few drummers/producers say 24” and larger can get lost more easily and that a 22 or 20 can cut better but still have punch. Depends on the tune I guess.

Yes, we all love Bonham, but how many bands are coming through your hood with that kind of drummer, that few instruments and that kind of arrangement?

Old 11th April 2019
  #7
Gear Addict
gretsch, slingerland, ludwig or rogers from the 60's with bearing edges in good shape.

20, 13, 16

you'll never be sorry you bought them.
Old 11th April 2019
  #8
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andersmv's Avatar
 

What's the depth on the pieces? I don't think it's worth going smaller on the kick, maybe move up to a 24 or 26, but pick something that's really shallow. I'm guessing the Oak Custom kick is deeper (All of them I've seen have been around 18 inches deep). For toms, get a 14 inch rack tom and maybe a really shallow 16 inch floor tom to match. I'm in a similar position you're in, my main kit is a Gretsch with 22x20 kick, 12 and 16 inch toms. I keep fiberskyns on it and have it tuned pretty low, it works for the majority of stuff.

I have a big old 60's Slingerland 30x15 marching drum as a kick that, believe it or not is quite versatile. Everyone is skeptical about it until they play it, I've been offered a LOT of money for it a few times, you can't have it! Speaking of marching drums, keep an eye out for a 14 or 15 inch marching snare that's really deep. I have a 60's Ludwig 15x12 snare that's fun, but it also makes a fantastic tom. You can rack it up or put it on the floor position next to a 16, I can kill a few birds with that stone. Whatever you end up getting, experiment with some different/unique heads. It's nice to have a few pieces sitting on the shelf with fiberskyns that you can just grab. Don't get another set with slightly different sizes and put the same heads on it, that's no fun!
Old 11th April 2019
  #9
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
I’d stick with a 22” kick. A vintage 22x14 will sound way different than your Yamaha Oak 22x18. I have a jellybean kit comprised of 70’s Ludwig orphan drums. 12, 16 and 22. They sound really incredible. I also own a 23x14 single-tension 1930’s bass drum with calfskin heads for something even more different. And I have 7 vintage snare drums (gretsch, rogers, slingerlamd, e.w. kent,) and one new A&F raw brass 14x7. Having many diffrrent snare drums is the real key to being able to dial in the drums for different productions. And don’t forget cymbals!
Old 11th April 2019
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
I'd guess the 24" might be more useful because there a bigger possibility that clients will have a 22 or a 20, so the 24 would be unique.

I'd really love a Rogers with a 24.

I'm actually considering buying a lone 14x24.

Last edited by Drumsound; 11th April 2019 at 09:11 AM..
Old 11th April 2019
  #11
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andersmv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
And I have 7 vintage snare drums (gretsch, rogers, slingerlamd, e.w. kent,) and one new A&F raw brass 14x7. Having many diffrrent snare drums is the real key to being able to dial in the drums for different productions.
How are you liking your A&F? One of my friends works there, they make some really cool stuff and I'm saving for a snare right now. A&F stuff is super expensive, but it would be worth it looking into their tom's as you can custom order any of them with a snare. Great idea and super versatile!
Old 11th April 2019
  #12
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
How are you liking your A&F? One of my friends works there, they make some really cool stuff and I'm saving for a snare right now. A&F stuff is super expensive, but it would be worth it looking into their tom's as you can custom order any of them with a snare. Great idea and super versatile!
I’ve been following A&F for some time now and waiting for the right drum to show up at my local drug shop, ah... I meant drum shop. Revival Drum Shop in Portland. This 14x7 6-lug raw brass with wood hoops checked all the boxes and I pulled the trigger. It’s a truly amazing instrument. Incredible sensitivity, volume, tone and tuning range. It’s also incredibly heavy, but worth it! One day, when I win the lottery and have a spot where it will never have to get moved, I’ll get a whole kit from them
Old 13th April 2019
  #13
Yammies in different configurations. Everyone loves them and says “ Tommy Aldridige”. Black Sonor is a 20”.
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2nd drum kit for the studio, your thoughts please.-9fa796bf-c8ea-44f7-9fcf-4d2a4b08c36b.jpg  
Old 13th April 2019
  #14
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henryrobinett's Avatar
OT - I’m not a drummer. I have a studio with a great kit. Gretsch Renown. 20” kick. I have the snare that cane with it and a Ludwig Arcolyte. I thought I might get another kick. Mostly I do jazz but other things as well. I know for snare Supraphonic and acrolyte are good models. What about kick?
Old 13th April 2019
  #15
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post
A vintage Gretsch or Ludwig 22 will not sound the same as your Yamaha (or each other) so don't worry about the size. However, grabbing up multiple sized kick drums (and snares and toms...) can give you more choices.

Grab whatever comes your way. If someone's got a good vintage kit for a decent price, grab it. If someone's got a big old 28 with calf heads, grab it. If you don't already have a Supraphonic or Acrolite, grab those whenever they show up for a good price. Maybe someone will have a Yamaha Oak in a 20 that you'd find useful.

Of course, all of this depends on what kind of music you usually make.

Quoted not only b/c the above is correct, but also b/c I love the nick!
Old 13th April 2019
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
OT - I’m not a drummer. I have a studio with a great kit. Gretsch Renown. 20” kick. I have the snare that cane with it and a Ludwig Arcolyte. I thought I might get another kick. Mostly I do jazz but other things as well. I know for snare Supraphonic and acrolyte are good models. What about kick?
How deep is the 20” you have?

I’d say 16” deep or less should be able to do jazz well. Take all or most of the dampening out and put on single ply heads if you don’t already have them on. No emads!!!

Tune to taste
Old 13th April 2019
  #17
Lives for gear
I just got a new kick. A 20x12 Ludwig classic maple in silver glass glitter named and sold as a stingray by Dales Drum Shop. I’m really happy with it. I was thinking g I’d go for a more vintage sound but this size in a classic maple covers that ground I think.
Old 13th April 2019
  #18
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
How deep is the 20” you have?

I’d say 16” deep or less should be able to do jazz well. Take all or most of the dampening out and put on single ply heads if you don’t already have them on. No emads!!!

Tune to taste
Cool! I meant is there a brand or type that is cool, like the snare supraphonic/acrolyte, etc? I'd be interested in a 22" or larger for R&R and other styles. Do people mix and match kicks like they do snares?
Old 13th April 2019
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Cool! I meant is there a brand or type that is cool, like the snare supraphonic/acrolyte, etc? I'd be interested in a 22" or larger for R&R and other styles. Do people mix and match kicks like they do snares?
Cant go wrong with Ludwig, new or vintage, for any genre. Lots of good brands though. People definitely mix up kicks. I don’t think you need as many kicks as you do snares, but I feel the kick defines so much of the kit that I could probably have four toms (12x8, 13x9, 14x14, 16x16) and just switch kicks, snares and heads and that’ll cover 99% of anything recorded ever!

I personally don’t need that many toms, but if was a session player or recording a lot of clients, that’d be my blueprint. One set with those toms and a few other kicks and snares of differing sizes/brands

Check out this little clip for an example of switching out kicks, snares and mic placements/mics in one song



Quote:
Which Kit is Right for Your Song? Drum Tracks by Dylan Wissing | Indie Studio Drummer



I play drums on songs by Alicia Keys, John Legend and Drake. I want to play on your songs, too. Let's make a record together! Start a project at www.indiestu...
Old 13th April 2019
  #20
Here for the gear
I have a Sonor kit with sizes 8” - 18” with bith a 20” and 22” kick! They record great, but when i was looking for a different flavor i ended up building a Roto-Tom kit it utilizes toms from 6” - 16” with an 18” kick! It gets some awesome sounds and is really fun to play! I also have an electronic kit as well that utilizes Pintech Concertcast pads, Yamaha PCY cymbals and Yamaha Modules!
I have found that these 3 options have fulfilled most needs for sounds when it comes to drums and in many cases percussion!
Old 13th April 2019
  #21
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
OT - I’m not a drummer. I have a studio with a great kit. Gretsch Renown. 20” kick. I have the snare that cane with it and a Ludwig Arcolyte. I thought I might get another kick. Mostly I do jazz but other things as well. I know for snare Supraphonic and acrolyte are good models. What about kick?
I listened to a bunch of your stuff a while back. All of it is excellent. Having an idea of what you do, I'd say that you could mess around with almost any 50's or 60's or 70's kick drum by any American manufacturer for an R&B kick drum. You might want to set it up with just one head and a heavy blanket inside. You might want to experiment with different drums and different sizes, 20, 22, or 24. You don't need to look for anything in particular, although you'll find that you'll have favorites. I can't predict what those will be. You could seriously get a couple of old kick drums for low dough if you keep your eyes open. You don't need it to look great, and honestly, if you're interested in a single headed sound, the drum doesn't need to be in great shape as long as it's not too far out of round or cracked. Then again, your production is fairly modern, so you might want to get a 22 or 24 that matches your kit. The single headed thing is more of a 70's thing, but your stuff will sound great no matter which way you go.
Old 13th April 2019
  #22
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post
I listened to a bunch of your stuff a while back. All of it is excellent. Having an idea of what you do, I'd say that you could mess around with almost any 50's or 60's or 70's kick drum by any American manufacturer for an R&B kick drum. You might want to set it up with just one head and a heavy blanket inside. You might want to experiment with different drums and different sizes, 20, 22, or 24. You don't need to look for anything in particular, although you'll find that you'll have favorites. I can't predict what those will be. You could seriously get a couple of old kick drums for low dough if you keep your eyes open. You don't need it to look great, and honestly, if you're interested in a single headed sound, the drum doesn't need to be in great shape as long as it's not too far out of round or cracked. Then again, your production is fairly modern, so you might want to get a 22 or 24 that matches your kit. The single headed thing is more of a 70's thing, but your stuff will sound great no matter which way you go.
Thank you poopy! Just for reference sake here's a page I posted elsewhere on GS where I was testing tom mics. Trying to find the right ones. But it's just not ONLY for me or the basic stuff I have done. Generally, I don't do speed metal, thrash type stuff but I have no problem if a client wants to. They'd probably bring their own kit anyway, right?

Tom mic comparison 421v RE16 | Henry Robinett
Old 13th April 2019
  #23
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Dr. Mordo's Avatar
 

Do you get many jazz acts? If so, yo might consider a smaller bass drum, but otherwise I'd go big.

Personally, I have never liked 22" kicks much and would much prefer a 24" kick. I also think a 18" floor tom is a very good idea. 24/13/16/18 is a classic setup.

That said, I have a 26" kick drum in my main kit, and I love it. You can cut a hole in the front head and stuff a pillow in for a standard bass drum sound, or you can use some muffling strips and uncut heads for the Bonham sound. A lot of drummers have never played a 26" and when they sit down at it they fall in love.
Old 13th April 2019
  #24
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Thank you poopy! Just for reference sake here's a page I posted elsewhere on GS where I was testing tom mics. Trying to find the right ones. But it's just not ONLY for me or the basic stuff I have done. Generally, I don't do speed metal, thrash type stuff but I have no problem if a client wants to. They'd probably bring their own kit anyway, right?

Tom mic comparison 421v RE16 | Henry Robinett

Damn, that kit sounds great in the contexts in that link. What a bunch of great players, and what a great recording.

If I was coming in there to do something a bit more hard hitting and meatheaded, I'd want a different kit. If you get people in there looking to do something more Stax, or more rock (not metal, but straight ahead pop/rock) you might want to get a second kit 22, 13, 16, Ludwig, Rogers, or Slingerland. If you're patient, you can find a workable 60's kit for decent dough. Way less than your Gretsch kit new.
Old 13th April 2019
  #25
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post
Damn, that kit sounds great in the contexts in that link. What a bunch of great players, and what a great recording.

If I was coming in there to do something a bit more hard hitting and meatheaded, I'd want a different kit. If you get people in there looking to do something more Stax, or more rock (not metal, but straight ahead pop/rock) you might want to get a second kit 22, 13, 16, Ludwig, Rogers, or Slingerland. If you're patient, you can find a workable 60's kit for decent dough. Way less than your Gretsch kit new.
Are you familiar with this kit? It does pretty much anything. This is just what we were doing that day. Just playing jazz. But a Gretsch Renown is a great overall kit as far as I understand. It was recommended for me by a friend who is a phenomenal session drummer, who plays everything. And jazz isn't his strong suit. Just checking.

I'm not getting a second kit. But parts maybe. As I said I have an Acrolyte in the corner. Otherwise, folks can bring their own. People bring their own cymbals.
Old 13th April 2019
  #26
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Are you familiar with this kit? It does pretty much anything. This is just what we were doing that day. Just playing jazz. But a Gretsch Renown is a great overall kit as far as I understand. It was recommended for me by a friend who is a phenomenal session drummer, who plays everything. And jazz isn't his strong suit. Just checking.

I'm not getting a second kit. But parts maybe. As I said I have an Acrolyte in the corner. Otherwise, folks can bring their own. People bring their own cymbals.
Yes, the renown is a fine kit and can probably cover most bases. You don’t need a new kit. Add the kick(s) you want and maybe a tom, but that kit is great and would be hard to beat for a reasonable price.
Old 13th April 2019
  #27
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Are you familiar with this kit? It does pretty much anything. This is just what we were doing that day. Just playing jazz. But a Gretsch Renown is a great overall kit as far as I understand. It was recommended for me by a friend who is a phenomenal session drummer, who plays everything. And jazz isn't his strong suit. Just checking.

I'm not getting a second kit. But parts maybe. As I said I have an Acrolyte in the corner. Otherwise, folks can bring their own. People bring their own cymbals.
I use Renown here also. Very happy with the sounds.

I upgraded a year and a half ago from a Pearl Export. Let's just say it was a big upgrade, and desperately needed. The interesting part to me is how drastic of a difference it made. Drum shells are no trifling matter.
Old 13th April 2019
  #28
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Are you familiar with this kit? It does pretty much anything. This is just what we were doing that day. Just playing jazz. But a Gretsch Renown is a great overall kit as far as I understand. It was recommended for me by a friend who is a phenomenal session drummer, who plays everything. And jazz isn't his strong suit. Just checking.

I'm not getting a second kit. But parts maybe. As I said I have an Acrolyte in the corner. Otherwise, folks can bring their own. People bring their own cymbals.
I may have gotten confused by the title of this thread... But the biggest problem you'd have with a second kit is storage. The advantage to a second kit is that you can have it set up and tuned differently. It's faster to swap out, and you don't need to mess with the current heads, tuning, etc.

I've not played the Gretsch Renown, but I do have a 70's Gretsch kit 22, 12, 13, 14, 14, 16, 18 with an extra 18 kick. I also have a five piece 60's Ludwig 22, 12, 13, 16, and a 60's four piece Rogers 22, 13, 16, and a 60's four piece Camco, 20, 12, 14, a North kit (absolutely ridiculous and I can't imagine ever using in the studio) and I also have probably 20 loose snare drums and 10 kicks and several toms ranging from the 1920's to the 1960's. I might be a relative neophyte at recording, but I do know drums. I am sure your friend knows drums too and if you wanted to pick up an extra bass drum, your friend would have better advice than 99% of us here at GS.
Old 14th April 2019
  #29
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox Han View Post
Yes, the renown is a fine kit and can probably cover most bases. You don’t need a new kit. Add the kick(s) you want and maybe a tom, but that kit is great and would be hard to beat for a reasonable price.
I have two rack toms and a floor. I don't think I'll need more. Mostly I put this kit there so we can rehearse, record and others can as well. But if other clients wants something else they can bring it.
Old 14th April 2019
  #30
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post
I may have gotten confused by the title of this thread... But the biggest problem you'd have with a second kit is storage. The advantage to a second kit is that you can have it set up and tuned differently. It's faster to swap out, and you don't need to mess with the current heads, tuning, etc.

I've not played the Gretsch Renown, but I do have a 70's Gretsch kit 22, 12, 13, 14, 14, 16, 18 with an extra 18 kick. I also have a five piece 60's Ludwig 22, 12, 13, 16, and a 60's four piece Rogers 22, 13, 16, and a 60's four piece Camco, 20, 12, 14, a North kit (absolutely ridiculous and I can't imagine ever using in the studio) and I also have probably 20 loose snare drums and 10 kicks and several toms ranging from the 1920's to the 1960's. I might be a relative neophyte at recording, but I do know drums. I am sure your friend knows drums too and if you wanted to pick up an extra bass drum, your friend would have better advice than 99% of us here at GS.
Yeah. I'm sorry. It's not my thread. I confiscated it. Apologies to the OP.

Who's my friend? Confused. You mean the guy who suggested I buy this kit? Yeah. He's a great drummer. Played with a lot of top-notch acts. Has a drum business in Nashville and Memphis now. Still playing. But I have a lot of drummer friends who I've also consulted with. Most of the guys I've played with and asked and who know what I like and want suggested a 20" kick. Feeling it was the perfect go-between of jazz and funk/pop/rock/fusion.

The guy in Nashville told me that he just solk 30 vintage kits, but that anyone who asks who wants to buy a new kit it Gretcsh Renown, period. He said, "I play it. Vinnie Colaiuta plays it." He said a larger kick was OK. 24" 22"? I don't remember. Said Tony Williams did and it worked for him. LOL.
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