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Washing on a ride or crash? Spatial Processor Plugins
Old 24th December 2018
  #1
Lives for gear
Washing on a ride or crash?

So you're entering the chorus of a super heavy tune, are you washing out one of your large crashes, smaller crashes, or ride?

I've never been a big ride washer kinda guy, it's usually fairly low, but was watching Bonham playing live in Denmark, How Many More Times and in the "ain't no need to hide" bridge part, he's working that ride and it sounds great, nice and low.

If you like to get that ride swayin' and movin', what ride do you prefer? Thin? Crash/ride, 20"?
Old 24th December 2018
  #2
Gear Nut
 
C.r.a.p.'s Avatar
For a crashy ride pattern a 17" K custom fast crash fills my needs. With the shaft on the rim but not burying into the cymbal.

When the song asks for more ping my 18" K pre aged dry light ride does the job. Strike with the the tip and let the wash build up. Both are very thin cymbals and I like those for trashy ride patterns with some definition.
Old 26th December 2018
  #3
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
This is a completely opened question. I do all manner of things to get different sounds from different cymbals. It depends on why type of washy and how washy I need something. If I just want some addition spread, I'll play with the tip near the edge of the ride I'm using. If I need that Grohl etc 90s was, I ply the edge of an amazing 60' 20" A Zildjian crash. Faster more "punk-ish" I'll play the edge of a 17 or 18 crash. Wash, but not loud, and maybe a slower song, play the above 20" like a rid cymbal, with the tip, about halfway between the bell and edge.

Good cymbals all make a variety of tones, and the key is to learn the different tones each of your cymbals is capable of, and use that knowledge to your advantage.
Old 28th December 2018
  #4
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
So you're entering the chorus of a super heavy tune, are you washing out one of your large crashes, smaller crashes, or ride?
yes

Quote:
If you like to get that ride swayin' and movin', what ride do you prefer? Thin? Crash/ride, 20"?
I think every song is different, and to be honest, I might play "that part" of the same song on two different cymbals on two different nights. Sometimes it can be a kind of whimsical choice for me.
Old 17th January 2019
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
So you're entering the chorus of a super heavy tune, are you washing out one of your large crashes, smaller crashes, or ride?

I've never been a big ride washer kinda guy, it's usually fairly low, but was watching Bonham playing live in Denmark, How Many More Times and in the "ain't no need to hide" bridge part, he's working that ride and it sounds great, nice and low.

If you like to get that ride swayin' and movin', what ride do you prefer? Thin? Crash/ride, 20"?
Just watched that Denmark show again after many years. Holy crap! The next time someone tells me I hit to hard, I'm showing them that.

Bonzo is crashing that ride like crazy. Have to be a damn loud band to get away w/that. It totally works there though.
Old 21st January 2019
  #6
Hitting cymbals very hard is definitely not good.
Personally I find rides played like a washy crash take up too much sonic territory.
But in the end, there are no rules.
I own washy rides. But if I was doing the 'grunge' washy chorus thing I'd be playing a very thin crash in a larger size, 19" or 20". And not smacking it.
Old 21st January 2019
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Hitting cymbals very hard is definitely not good.
Personally I find rides played like a washy crash take up too much sonic territory.
But in the end, there are no rules.
I own washy rides. But if I was doing the 'grunge' washy chorus thing I'd be playing a very thin crash in a larger size, 19" or 20". And not smacking it.
Same here. I've got a 20" Zildjian crash form the 60s that I can play lightly on the edge, and it sound massive, but not overly loud.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Same here. I've got a 20" Zildjian crash form the 60s that I can play lightly on the edge, and it sound massive, but not overly loud.
Nice score. I’ve been scouring eBay for a large/thin 20”.

My 18 K sweet crash sounds great as a crash but I don’t like it for washing.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #9
I think the Kerope line was designed for this.
They didn’t label any of the cymbals ‘crash’ or ‘ride’.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Nice score. I’ve been scouring eBay for a large/thin 20”.

My 18 K sweet crash sounds great as a crash but I don’t like it for washing.
I got it with my first drumset in 1982. The drums (which I still have and use) are '63-'64 Slingerland in White Marine Pearl. I got a correct year 14" floor tom when I worked MI and that's what I bring on jazz gigs.

The 20" is amazing, because it not only sounds lovely, but reacts quickly like a smaller crash. I can ride on it like a ride cymbal and its got a lovely spread, or play the edge for the 90s thing. The bell sounds great, rolls with mallets are wonderful. It is literally my favorite cymbal on the planet.
Old 24th January 2019
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I got it with my first drumset in 1982. The drums (which I still have and use) are '63-'64 Slingerland in White Marine Pearl. I got a correct year 14" floor tom when I worked MI and that's what I bring on jazz gigs.

The 20" is amazing, because it not only sounds lovely, but reacts quickly like a smaller crash. I can ride on it like a ride cymbal and its got a lovely spread, or play the edge for the 90s thing. The bell sounds great, rolls with mallets are wonderful. It is literally my favorite cymbal on the planet.
Do you know what the weight is?
Old 24th January 2019
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Do you know what the weight is?
I've never had it on a scale. It has no printing, so no indication of what the factory might have called it. Its got the magic edge wobble, though.
Old 24th January 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I've never had it on a scale. It has no printing, so no indication of what the factory might have called it. Its got the magic edge wobble, though.
I have an old K with that. Freaked me out when I first noticed it. Thought it was warped.
Old 24th January 2019
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I have an old K with that. Freaked me out when I first noticed it. Thought it was warped.
Those are the best cymbals!
Old 24th January 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 

washing away on a crash should put you in jail!

used to be done on medium weight cymbals, back in the days when cymbals got labelled less by function but by weight.



p.s. when designing new cymbals, i've come across many old cymbals, including k's: their owners mostly seem to be very proud, but almost none of the cymbals were any good - besides cindy blackman, i haven't encountered anyone who owns a full set of old k's which works and sounds really nice...
Old 24th January 2019
  #16
'Good' is subjective of course.

Billy Cobham's cymbals on his Spectrum solo album sound incredible. It was recorded in the mid-70's, so even if new the cymbals would be vintage by now.
I believe he had collected a set of 60's and early 70's A Zildjians and that's what he was using, but I don't know.
Scandinavian drummer Jon Christensen has famously used an old set of Istanbul K Zildjians for most of his career. His cymbal sound is iconic - also amazing on many recordings over decades.
Having played quite a few vintage A Zildjians and K Zildjians - they are very variable. Some are extremely nice, many are average, and some are absolutely awful (subjectively speaking).
A couple of my nicest cymbals are mid-1980's K Zildjians, known as EAKs. made in the USA by hand by the original Turkish artisans.
Old 24th January 2019
  #17
Lives for gear
 

you're right on several accounts.

there are certainly many very good cymbals from various manufacturers out there, some old, some new - it's just that not all old k's (whatever their specific age) were (or are still) very good!

this doesn't stop them from being admired, getting collected or sold for ridiculous prices though. happens with other instruments/gear too...
Old 24th January 2019
  #18
It was worse about ten years ago.
Yes, there have been some passionate 'old K' collectors.
I think it's reasonably well known that many 'old k's' are not that good, but some are exceptionally good. I think that's the deal with handmade instruments, they can be variable.
Old 26th March 2019
  #19
ADG
Gear Maniac
 

I’ve used the wash riding technique a lot in praise and worship settings. Some sections of that music call for it. I’ve used a variety of Zildjians with good effect. I’ve done it with K 22” Cons, a Kerope 22, 20 crash of doom, 20 K Dark Thin, 20 A Custom EFX.

You just need to be careful how hard you lay into the cymbal while doing so, and partly it depends on your specific musical setting. I had one gig where I needed to use restraint. Then another church gig where they couldn’t get enough and I could literally play the cymbals at a strong volume on my end. Either way, I like the whole Keith Moon wash riding sound...when appropriate. It’s not always going to be appropriate, and if the bands complains, then just don’t do it.
Old 27th March 2019
  #20
Lives for gear
I wish there was a Cymbal Swap Shop so you could swap in and out at whim, try different things.

It's so hard to go to a music store and play the cymbals with all the racket there and get a feel for what's going to work with your setup.

We used to have a music store in town, great guy, salt of the earth type who you could call up on a Sunday evening and he'd make a cable or whatever for you, often for no charge "show must go on!" kind of attitude. Anyways, he had an actual drum room: 10x12 kind of thing, treated, with a heavy door, so you could take drums/cymbals in there and play around before you bought them.

Sadly, he closed shop years ago, and none of the big box stores around here have a room for the drums. Ukulele room? Check. But no drum room.
Old 27th March 2019
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I wish there was a Cymbal Swap Shop so you could swap in and out at whim, try different things.

It's so hard to go to a music store and play the cymbals with all the racket there and get a feel for what's going to work with your setup.

We used to have a music store in town, great guy, salt of the earth type who you could call up on a Sunday evening and he'd make a cable or whatever for you, often for no charge "show must go on!" kind of attitude. Anyways, he had an actual drum room: 10x12 kind of thing, treated, with a heavy door, so you could take drums/cymbals in there and play around before you bought them.

Sadly, he closed shop years ago, and none of the big box stores around here have a room for the drums. Ukulele room? Check. But no drum room.
When I sold gear there were a couple drummers who'd bring their cymbals with them when shopping. We encouraged that. We also had a 15 day return policy, and an approval system for "known customers" who were allowed to tak a couple things home to see if they worked for them
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