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20" or 22" Bass Drum?
Old 7th March 2017
  #31
In forty odd years I've never tuned a drum in Hz.
I couldn't really discuss your thoughts on tuning drums to 50hz.
I suggest you concentrate on how drums sound to your ears.
Before buying drums, consider what they will be used for, then buy the appropriate sized drums and correct number of drums.
Old 7th March 2017
  #32
Lives for gear
ok, ill do that. it's different for me, because i learned how to program drums in a daw before i started seriously trying to learn how to play actual drums. its because of the daw and drum samples, that i started wanting to learn real drums.
Old 7th March 2017
  #33
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starsoul707 View Post
i think i might change the order back to a 22" now. but I already just changed it from 22 to 20. so theyre going to get pissed off at me.
it's your money!

what do you care if a bunch of strangers are getting pissed at you? You will probably never meet them. And besides they are probably more positive for the money you are spending than they are negative for you changing your mind.

Quote:
the thing is, you can't order the 20" with the 16" floor tom, you have to get 14", and you can only get the 16" floor tom if you order the 22".
IMO 14" is on the small side for a floor tom anyway
Old 7th March 2017
  #34
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
In forty odd years I've never tuned a drum in Hz.
I couldn't really discuss your thoughts on tuning drums to 50hz.
I suggest you concentrate on how drums sound to your ears.
Before buying drums, consider what they will be used for, then buy the appropriate sized drums and correct number of drums.
Each drum has a few places in the tuning where they sound great, and now two drums are the same!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post

IMO 14" is on the small side for a floor tom anyway
This is a whole other thing...

I'm currently in 22" 12" rack and 14" and 16" floors, and I'm pretty happy with it. I haven't touched my 10" tom or 20" BD in quite a while. That's to rock set

The jazz set has a 20" BD 12x8" rack and a 14" floor.
Old 8th March 2017
  #35
Lives for gear
I changed the order back to 22 12 10 16 and snare, but the guy was pissed. because they already ordered in the other ones . I don't know how they order so fast though, I only placed the order on Saturday and I changed it on Monday first and then today again. I thought it took weeks to get the actual orders through. and I did go in and speak with the drum department for like two hours so I have met them. any way, if they had any actual drums on the store so I could compare I wouldn't have to do this guessing game is what I said . I said I was sorry but the guy said he just wants me to end up with kit that I want .
Old 8th March 2017
  #36
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Each drum has a few places in the tuning where they sound great, and now two drums are the same!



Quote:
This is a whole other thing... I'm currently in 22" 12" rack and 14" and 16" floors, and I'm pretty happy with it.
oh sure, if you have a 16" floor tom ALSO, then the 14" is not "too small!"


Quote:
The jazz set has a 20" BD 12x8" rack and a 14" floor.
I have a jazz kit with a converted 18" floor tom as the kick. My floor tom on that kit is a 14" but I am a bit frustrated with it. I dream of swapping in a 15"
Old 8th March 2017
  #37
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starsoul707 View Post
I said I was sorry but the guy said he just wants me to end up with kit that I want .
the customer is always right
Old 8th March 2017
  #38
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post





oh sure, if you have a 16" floor tom ALSO, then the 14" is not "too small!"




I have a jazz kit with a converted 18" floor tom as the kick. My floor tom on that kit is a 14" but I am a bit frustrated with it. I dream of swapping in a 15"
I played the set for years with just the 14". I bought it new that way. I go the 16" which is older, off the Tape Op board a few years ago. Its also a Gretsch, but the added 22" is a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute.

The 14" on the jazz set doesn't match, but its a similar vintage Slinderland. The 16" on that set never sounded that good, but the 14" that came in to the store I worked at in the 90s sounds great. Especially after adding a RIMS system.
Old 8th March 2017
  #39
Here's a song we just released where I used two different kicks. I wanted a contrast. The first minute is a 22' Yamaha RC, then it's an 18" Gretsch.

For a main kick 22," is the way to go. I can get the 18" where I like it - using a sub-kick, Little Labs VOG, and maybe some Puletc. The 22" just sits nicely w/out much tweaking.

Old 9th March 2017
  #40
Lives for gear
The smaller the drum, the easier it is to record.

The 20" will be better for faster songs
The 22" will be better for slower songs

The depth should be 14 or 16". I think 16" deep w/20" and 14" deep w/ 22" are the best combinations.

The brand, material, and heads also come into play. Stuff from Japan has more highs, from UK has more mid-lows.

I have a DW kit, but replaced the kick w/ Ludwig and the snare w/ Tama. So now I just use DW toms.


In general, once you have a kit, add a second snare so you have metal and wood options.

Over time, you end up w/ 20 snares, one for each common key signature and tempo/style. Two or three kick options is also nice.


Now here is the one aspect of drum kits most ignore. I just went through a round and solved this for my kit.

Getting a set of cymbal that match. If a single cymbal is a 1/2 step or hole step from any other part of the kit you have problems.

I recently spent three hours in a store w/ 300 cymbals to buy two that best complimented what I already had. And even then I was not 100% happy with my matches but it was better than what I had. For over 30 years My ride was a second from my hats, the transition never sounded right.

Besides working in scales w/ themselves, I also picked the final group of cymbals because they worked w/ the Keys of E and G so they are the most compatible w/ songs created on guitar.

You can tune a drum. Cymbal your stuck with one pitch. A good drums store has no drums and a @#$%load of Cymbals. Drums you order what you want and tune them. Guitar center figured that one out a few year ago.

Based on all of that logic, some cymbals are valuable and some are worthless. A G# cymbal is just about worthless. A ride that is an E pitch is valuable.
Old 9th March 2017
  #41
Sorry, but your rules are quite ridiculous.
A G# cymbal is worthless???????

As most jazz is played in flat keys (Ab = G#) I think you are 1) wrong and 2) co-incidentally many 'jazz' rides like old K Zildjian are the most valued and expensive cymbals you can buy.

20" bass drum is best for fast songs?
No.
22" is the industry standard - fast or slow.

You're welcome to your rules, but don't pass them off as logic to others.
Old 9th March 2017
  #42
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
The smaller the drum, the easier it is to record.

The 20" will be better for faster songs
The 22" will be better for slower songs

...Stuff from Japan has more highs, from UK has more mid-lows...

..If a single cymbal is a 1/2 step or hole step from any other part of the kit you have problems...
...Based on all of that logic, some cymbals are valuable and some are worthless. A G# cymbal is just about worthless. A ride that is an E pitch is valuable.
Rarely have I seen so much bad advice condensed into a single post. And delivered in such an authoritative tone, that some unsuspecting newbie might actually take it seriously!
Old 10th March 2017
  #43
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
yeah, I gotta agree with @chrisso and @joeq on this.
Old 14th July 2017
  #44
Gear Nut
 
I-Quality's Avatar
As the talks are about kick size and fundamentals I'm asking here directly.

So I have a 22*20 maple drum, when I record I set the kick side as loose as possible (evans emad2, with just small dampening ring) and then tweak the resonant head which has a hole(evans eq3) for a better overall sound (maybe just a tad tighter than just no wrinkle).

I most of the time end up with the mic (Audix d6, or Shure B52) partly in the hole (body outside and head inside) looking at the beater as this gives the most balanced sound (attack-boom).

I then played both with weights inside against head or not, or just empty.

However, the fundamental I get is always around 100-110hz, which is relatively high. Is there anything else that I can try to play on pitch? Or is this drum just never going to sound lower than that?
Old 14th July 2017
  #45
Lives for gear
 
AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Quality View Post
As the talks are about kick size and fundamentals I'm asking here directly.

So I have a 22*20 maple drum, when I record I set the kick side as loose as possible (evans emad2, with just small dampening ring) and then tweak the resonant head which has a hole(evans eq3) for a better overall sound (maybe just a tad tighter than just no wrinkle).

I most of the time end up with the mic (Audix d6, or Shure B52) partly in the hole (body outside and head inside) looking at the beater as this gives the most balanced sound (attack-boom).

I then played both with weights inside against head or not, or just empty.

However, the fundamental I get is always around 100-110hz, which is relatively high. Is there anything else that I can try to play on pitch? Or is this drum just never going to sound lower than that?
I have never had any success tuning heads as low as they will go. Just sounds like a slappy mess. I am always 1/2 to 1 1/2 turns above JAW on kick drums. They just open up with better sound. They still have plenty of bottom without being near the point where most monitors can no longer accurately reproduce.
Old 15th July 2017
  #46
Gear Nut
 
I-Quality's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
I have never had any success tuning heads as low as they will go. Just sounds like a slappy mess. I am always 1/2 to 1 1/2 turns above JAW on kick drums. They just open up with better sound. They still have plenty of bottom without being near the point where most monitors can no longer accurately reproduce.
there is an obvious improvement in sound soon after wrinkles are no longer there, it doesnt mean it is exactly when no wrinkles are seen but indeed a little tighter from my experience
Old 15th July 2017
  #47
Lives for gear
I was was watching a video interview like a while ago of the iron maiden drummer and he said he does that also, he tunes them just above wrinkled
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