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need help identifying old set of drums
Old 7th February 2007
  #1
Here for the gear
 

need help identifying old set of drums

Ive got this old set of drums been sitting around a few yrs.(about 40) thinking about putting them up on e-bay..can anyone help me out. got the whole set..think the snare is a black beauty..trying to post photos but right now there not clear..(cell phone pics) first post so ill try to get the pics up
Attached Thumbnails
need help identifying old set of drums-560a0907.jpg  
Old 7th February 2007
  #2
Here for the gear
 

Image to big

sorry cant post anymore pics it says file size to big.Will try to figure it out and try again
Old 7th February 2007
  #3
Here for the gear
 

new pic down sized the image sorry best I can do with a cell phone..I cant find any kind of id or dates on the bass or tom toms..any help or ideas would be a big help with a listing on e-bay
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 7th February 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 

yep...snare's a black beauty. Drums from this era aren't usually too valuable as they're more for the museum crowd with the tacked on bottom heads and all, they just don't work for any sort of modern (see 1950s and beyond) music, but the snare's a different story. That's a great find. Any cymbals or anything else with this old kit?

later,

m
Old 7th February 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 

...just to clarify, the drums are definitely pre WWII. I can't tell exactly from the pics what they are. But, when I say not worth a lot, I mean in relation to that snare. That snare is going to be in the $3-5K range if it's a good size like a 5x14. There were some goofy sizes like 15" snares back then as well. It's also impossible to tell if it's all original from that single pic.
Anyway, you've got a goldmine in that snare...the kit...ummmm....maybe a grand to the right buyer...what is it? Kick and rack tom? What about other goodies like pedal, cymbals, etc. Remember, the old Zildjian K's can go for a grand ea for the rides.

later,

m
Old 7th February 2007
  #6
Here for the gear
 

thx

yep got a lot of cymbals cow bells all the pedals I think Ill put it together and post some more pics. The heads are bad on the snare and one side of the bass but are sure theve been replaced before..This has been sitting around my parents house for years. my father has passed and my is loooking for a smaller place..and Im very interested in selling them if theres any interest.

Last edited by alibi; 7th February 2007 at 02:25 PM.. Reason: spelling (bad typing)
Old 7th February 2007
  #7
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r0ck1r0ck2's Avatar
 

you know,,.. i really like tack toms..

they are cool and should be given another shot..

great find man..
Old 8th February 2007
  #8
Gear Addict
 

jesus i'd be interested in that black beauty if it wasn't $3k... for great drums being expensive.

really good drums are kinda easy to find...but pushing to great is like a whole different world.
Old 8th February 2007
  #9
I would do as much research as you can on that snare. Look around the vintage drum websites and contact a few reputable dealers. As has been said, it's basically a diamond in the rough.It's circa 1920's, extremely desirable and usually extremely valuable $3k to $5k. I have one myself and it's the best studio snare drum.
If it is all original and can be cleaned up/restored, it will appeal to collectors and studio drummers. If it is a 'player' drum (not so collectable), it will still be worth a lot to some wealthy drummer or studio musician. Likewise any vintage cymbals (as has been said).
If you put it on Ebay in it's current condition, like in these photographs, you might not attract enough interest. It looks to be in fairly good and original nick.
Whatever you do, don't let anyone rip you off!
Old 8th February 2007
  #10
Here for the gear
 

thx Chrisso I thought it was just an old set of drums a guy gave me 40 yrs ago. Im going to set up the whole set this weekend and do an inventory. It used to be all there but I think missing a few pieces now. will post the pics here. youve been a great help..found an appraisser and gonna send him the pics.I want a fair price for me and the buyer.
Old 8th February 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 

also...just to clarify a tad more. DON'T CLEAN OR RESTORE ANYTHING. That laquer on the BB's is very fragile. If you do much more than wipe them with a dry towel, you're risking losing the color. Also, many of the so called drum experts out there that own their own shops are crooks. They'll try to under-sell your drum to get it cheap, then sell it for a mint in their shops when they get it. That's really nothing new in any business...buy low, sell high. But, just watch out.

I, like others, would LOVE to have a drum like this, but they're just way too expensive on today's market. There were tons sold, so there's still hope that I'll run across one myself. If it were me, I'd put it up on ebay where you'll get the best possible price. When these hit ebay, they typically start a bidding war and the price is always high. Just make sure that when you do, you use a nice camera and get good pics of everything. Bottom line, leave it as is. A real collector would rather see it just like you found it than cleaned up and ruined. I've got TONS of drum books with literally chapters on black beauties. Lemme know if you have any questions, I'd be glad to help you look up stuff on this drum...or any of the other drums or cymbals for that matter. I can possibly help look up zildjian stamps and help date them for you.

m
Old 8th February 2007
  #12
I agree, I don't think it hurts to take a dry (soft) cloth and brush away the dust.
I should have made myself clearer before, I was suggesting taking this drum to a vintage drum expert and having them clean it up and check for non original parts. Not attacking it yourself with brasso and a screwdriver.
I meant also to say, you need better pictures, not a better looking drum. The drum actually looks good to go, no work needed, but it's hard to tell in the camera phone pictures.
As I said earlier however, proceed with extreme caution.
Mike Curotto is one of the experts in this field. If you search around some of the vintage drum forums you'll see his name crop up.
Steve Maxwell can be helpful too: www.maxwelldrums.com
As chetatkinsdiet said, beware the lowball offer from any dealers and shop owners. There are some honest ones out there though.
Come back here if you are concerned. It looks as if chetatkinsdiet can you help you out a lot also.
Old 8th February 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 

yep...what he says....also, if you're looking for experts on the BB, look up John Aldridge. He's the editor for The Vintage Drummer Magazine. He is also one of the best drum engravers around. Ludwig even uses him to engrave their new BB's that have this. He's written books and such on the old BB's. I think he lives in Oklahoma these days. I'm sure you could track him down easily from the magazine.

m
Old 8th February 2007
  #14
Yes, John Aldridge.

He edits his own vintage drum magazine, website and forum (not so modern drummer).
http://www.notsomoderndrummer.com/forum/

Have a look at this:
http://www.vintagesnaredrums.com/for...e=3&order=desc

Mike Curotto:
http://www.curottodrums.com/
Old 11th February 2007
  #15
Here for the gear
 

good or junk?

1920s? cymbals the one with the silver ludwigs vibraters is 12" the other 2 are 10" never seen one of the painted toms before any Ideas?
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 11th February 2007
  #16
Here for the gear
 

more pics

just wanted to post for any response on the rest of this set looks like the toms are not a match.
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 11th February 2007
  #17
Here for the gear
 

found another cymbal

looked around and found this. all the cymbals have no numbers on them good or more junk?
Attached Thumbnails
need help identifying old set of drums-560a0928.jpg   need help identifying old set of drums-560a0929.jpg   need help identifying old set of drums-560a0930.jpg  
Old 11th February 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Typical kit from that era. Most drummers just used the snare and kick mainly. Hi hats weren't even around...neither were ride cymbals. What the drummers would have is basically this type of setup....LARGE kick drum and snare. Then maybe a few of these toms with tacked on bottom heads. Then the other painted toms you have are chinese toms. Add in a few cowbells, wood blocks a sock hat and a few other smaller, splash type cymbals and that's your typical kit from the 20s. Look for old pics of Baby Dodds or Chick Webb and you'll see similar stuff. Great, great find here. It's be very tempting to keep the whole thing or sell as a kit as it definitely came together. The cymbals at that time were on par with your average Wuhan's of today...or so these seem to be. There were Zildjians, but it doesn't appear that you have any here. Even if you did, the smaller 10-12" zildjians of the day don't bring a lot like the larger ones.

later,

m
Old 11th February 2007
  #19
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one more thing...the toms with the brown stripe in the middle (known as a duco finish) appear to be slingerlands...maybe even old Radio King toms....a la Gene Krupa. It's hard to tell about the kick as it's got the old parade lug setup.

Later,

m
Old 11th February 2007
  #20
Here for the gear
 

one more question (Maybe)

been looking at the old BBs on e-bay and other sites and cant seem to find the answer.. all the other bbs ive been looking at have 8 lugs? mine has ten. does this make a difference?
Old 11th February 2007
  #21
Well in my less experienced opinion, the kit is not going to be a financial windfall.
You could sell it as a complete package (except snare). It is most definitely a piece of history and would attract collectors. It's probably not a practical kit to play, so that reduces your customer base and it looks like it needs (expert!) cleaning and restoration.
Sell it as one lot, otherwise you might get left with one or two less desirable pieces.
The snare is a very desirable Black Beauty, looking to be in pretty good original condition.
There is always a vibrant market for quality Black Beauties.
You could watch Ebay for several months and see how average values go.
Ask around for advice on the value (dealers, collectors etc).
Or sell the snare through a third party (on commission through a dealer).
You could easily sell it yourself on Ebay.
But the bottom line is, you need to know exactly how much it's worth in order to set a sensible reserve.
I have no idea on an exact value.
As has been said, it's probably somewhere above $2500 and perhaps as high as $5000.
It all depends on the condition, the dimensions of the drum, the year of manufacture, any modifications that have been done, etc, etc.
It has been said, 'beware of dealers', but as long as you aren't going to sell the drum to a dealer without doing a bit of research, you should be safe enough.
So I would ask some dealers, collectors and experts (some links I posted above) to give you their opinion on the history of this drum and it's eventual asking price.
You can ask them about the full kit too.
Old 11th February 2007
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by alibi View Post
all the other bbs ive been looking at have 8 lugs? mine has ten. does this make a difference?
Yes, I think it would.
What is the measurement across the top of the drum? Perhaps 14" or 15"?
How deep is it? (Anything from 3" to 7").
Old 11th February 2007
  #23
Here's a ten lugger that looks more recent than yours. The seller says 1930's. arguably a slightly less desirable date.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LUDWIG-30S-ENGRA...QQcmdZViewItem

Over $1660 with two days still to go.

Here's an 8 lug version similar to yours. The seller reports some damage.
The drum sold for $$2300+.
I think prices have gone down a bit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LUDWIG-BLACK-BEA...QQcmdZViewItem
Old 11th February 2007
  #24
Here for the gear
 

meauserments

5 by 14 havent took off the heads but it measures almost 6" with the rings on so prety sure its a 5"x14" sending out pics to an aprassor tonight see what he says..but I really want to thank you crisso and cheataskindiet for your help..Im not completly blind on this subject now. never figured on gettin rich off it just want to get a fair price. other wise it might have gone in a yard sale for a few bucks..
Old 11th February 2007
  #25
Great

Get at least a few quotes if you can.

John Aldridge might reply to an email.
Steve Maxwell too
www.maxwelldrums.com
Old 12th February 2007
  #26
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Your BB looks very similar to mine, which is from 1924. It's a fantastic drum! Good luck with this kit.
Old 4th June 2007
  #27
Here for the gear
 

coming up on e-bay

If anyone is interested these Drums are coming up for sale on e-bay will be posting them for sale tonight 6-3-07 thanks again for all the help. alibi
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