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C&C Super Flyer Kits for studio? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 1st April 2016
  #1
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andersmv's Avatar
 

C&C Super Flyer Kits for studio?



I've been doing some research/looking at some new ideas for studio drum sets. I've really enjoyed working with some shallower drums as of late, especially toms and kicks. I came across this C&C kit and was not expecting to like the sound so much in the video! I have not seen or heard one in person, but I think it could turn out to be a nice recording kit with minimal micing in an open sounding room. I don't have any toms that are open in the bottom, so it could be a new flavor and give me some experimentation micing the inside of the toms.

I've got a bunch of other great kits to choose from, so this would not be intended to be a "work horse" by any means, but it's really intriguing. That kick is really narrow but it sounds great in the video. A lot of the early bebop kits had narrow kick drums, i've got a large 30 inch kick drum that's narrow and I love it. The toms also seem to lack a lot of the resonance characteristics that I usually hate and try to kill either with tuning for gels/tape. Thoughts anyone?
Old 2nd April 2016
  #2
Looks like a good kit for transportation.
Recordingwise it would be gimmicky. If you have space for a gimmicky sounding kit, then it's all good.
Old 5th April 2016
  #3
Gear Head
 

they dont sound like a gimmick they sound unique and super cool!!! probably would sound gimmicky if you wanna sound the same as everyone else first post- gimmick comment got me. off to a bad start
Old 5th April 2016
  #4
I own and use unusual drums, including single headed drums. These sure sound more of a gimmick than a useful studio kit to me.
The main use seems to be more about quick and easy transportation and less about sound.
Old 5th April 2016
  #5
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I own and use unusual drums, including single headed drums. These sure sound more of a gimmick than a useful studio kit to me.
The main use seems to be more about quick and easy transportation and less about sound.
Yeah fair enough I wont claim to have a super knowledge or very refined taste. What are some unique ones you have if you dont mind me asking? really interested!
Old 5th April 2016
  #6
N&C Star Series kit.
Single ply drums, very shallow toms (floor tom is 10 x 16").
N&C Horizon kit.
Single headed 'concert' toms.
Old 5th April 2016
  #7
Gear Head
 

Thanks alot!! will check them out. whats your opinion on the larger sized c&c

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VPTvbDvN4JI
Old 5th April 2016
  #8
Never played one.
I'm sure they are fine.
there's nothing particularly wrong with the Super Flyer kit (to be clear), I just think (from the video) it has a very signature sound that would make it less usable for some applications.
The Sakae kits and snares seem very good.
Old 10th April 2016
  #9
Lives for gear
They sound thin far miked, but if you put some directional condensers up close on the drums, they would sound just as good as almost any kit. One headed toms sound really good close miked with the proximity effect, at least at the right tuning. But terrible far miked. I like the kick a lot. Put some aquarian deep vintage 2's on there and a wood beater, you'd be good to go. The snare is pretty standard, but way too much sympathetic buzz.

Looks cool and fun to play though.
Old 10th April 2016
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
They sound thin far miked, but if you put some directional condensers up close on the drums, they would sound just as good as almost any kit.
Nope, you can't really remove the shallow, single-headed factor how ever they are mic'ed.
they won't sound anything like a standard double headed kit.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, except the mainstream drum sound since the 1980's has been the double headed sound.
Old 10th April 2016
  #11
Lives for gear
Well i recently bought a 16" floor tom, and after extensive a/b's with my 14" with one head (because it wouldn't go low enough to where I want it with 2) I returned it. Basically zero difference close miked with a hypercardioid condenser, both tuned to the exact same fundamental. The difference may be more pronounced with most 2 headed toms because the heads are usually tuned differently and you get the pitch bend, and sometimes more sustain depending on the tuning/tension.

But the 13" and 16" will sound remarkably close to two headed toms, if both heads tuned the same and with the same fundamental as the concert tom and close miked. Trust me, I have spent hours and hours and days messing around with this stuff, trying out different sizes, heads, mics, placement, etc. That's another benefit of the electronic tuner you so despise: any experiments you do have a precise control. Once you start testing different drums and tunings while tuning by ear, any slight discrepancies can change the sound completely and skew the result.

The point being that, yes in common practice they will sound different because of tuning, but I could get this kit to sound as good as most any kit you have heard with the right tuning and miking. My 14" one headed tom sounds amazing, not thin in the least when close miked, full and deep and sustaining.
Old 10th April 2016
  #12
I hardly think so.
I've recorded many shallow toms and many single headed toms. They really carry that signature whatever you do.

I don't 'despise' the electronic tuner.
I just have a ton of experience recording hundreds of different kits in many different situations.
The single headed tom is one of THE most recognisable sounds in music. You can't tell what snare was used, or what sized bass drum (a lot of the time) on a record, but you can hear a double headed tom vs a single headed tom a mile away.
Old 10th April 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
I agree with you in practice, but the differences you hear are mostly due to the inharmonic resonances and pitch bend of the two headed tom, which admittedly are commonplace, although not always the case. Also if you have overheads or room mics (who doesn't?), even in addition to close mics, that will also exaggerate the difference. Two headed toms project much more and sound much fuller in far miking.

Anyway, the point again is that I could make this kit sound as good and as full as basically any kit. It might have a different timbre then you are used to, but just as good. Way better than the video.
Old 10th April 2016
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post

Anyway, the point again is that I could make this kit sound as good and as full as basically any kit. It might have a different timbre then you are used to, but just as good.
That was my point. It will SOUND different.
I never said it would sound bad, just different. Quite different in fact.
Old 14th April 2016
  #15
Gear Head
 

I am really looking forward to getting mine tommorow, looks fun, will be fun.

forums would tell you my les paul is a far better guitar than a 300 buck danelectro but my girlfriend loves the danelectro.

i definitely cant handle most peoples ideas of drum recording. kinda mostly sounds dadrock if done 'right'

just my opionion, guess thats what draws as to a thread with a funky looking little kit
Old 14th April 2016
  #16
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andersmv's Avatar
 

Keep us updated since you're one of the few with first hand experience, it looks like a cool kit!
Old 14th April 2016
  #17
Gear Head
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
Keep us updated since you're one of the few with first hand experience, it looks like a cool kit!

heyo! so i got the bigger sized one not the seafoam green in that vid. I am not really good at reviews because I just like what I like and I work on vibe more than anything. and well its wayyyyy better than I thought and i really feel the vids do no justice. can kind of be thunderous when played soft and punchy when played hard. which im sure most kits can, it just had that thing about it! such a cool combination of sizes and shapes. kinda made me play way different.

worth noting i got some byzance extra thin dry cymbals along with it to do some lower volume thinderous sounds

honeymoon is over . will always put a smile on my dial me thinks!

ps my GF names all the instruments we get and this ones called Mr Gimmick haha
Old 14th April 2016
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalopsia View Post
I just like what I like and I work on vibe more than anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalopsia View Post

i definitely cant handle most peoples ideas of drum recording.
You sound very individual, left field.
That's fine.
My comments have been based on most people's expectations on drum sounds.
I never said they wouldn't sound good..... just very different.
You should probably hold back on taking the piss out of people who are just posting with the average forum member in mind.... especially based on a working experience.
Old 14th April 2016
  #19
BTW, I looked on the C&C site.
The focus of the Super Flyer is on ease of transport (like i said).
It's $1299 (street).
Street price on the Ludwig Questlove kit is $399.
Old 14th April 2016
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalopsia View Post
heyo! so i got the bigger sized one not the seafoam green in that vid. I am not really good at reviews because I just like what I like and I work on vibe more than anything. and well its wayyyyy better than I thought and i really feel the vids do no justice. can kind of be thunderous when played soft and punchy when played hard. which im sure most kits can, it just had that thing about it! such a cool combination of sizes and shapes. kinda made me play way different.

worth noting i got some byzance extra thin dry cymbals along with it to do some lower volume thinderous sounds

honeymoon is over . will always put a smile on my dial me thinks!

ps my GF names all the instruments we get and this ones called Mr Gimmick haha
congrats, that's a cool unique kit. I think from what i am seeing they are all the same size, 22/13/16. In looking it up, I found these heads that I had been wishing existed, which are made of wood. I have an interest in one headed kettle drums, and the sonic properties of single headed drums with no opening at the other end. They are higher and have a more stable pitch than either concert toms or two headed toms. I think with these as a res head, you can get timpani like sounds from toms:

Forest King 100 Drumheads – Index Drums

I'd try out the aquarian deep vintage II 20mil heads on the kick for a deeper bass sound. And like I mentioned earlier, cardioid condensers on the toms up close.
Old 15th April 2016
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You sound very individual, left field.
That's fine.
My comments have been based on most people's expectations on drum sounds.
I never said they wouldn't sound good..... just very different.
You should probably hold back on taking the piss out of people who are just posting with the average forum member in mind.... especially based on a working experience.
I did take the micky over one word, i am only being cheeky though, no harm mate

I really do see where you are coming from however, the OP started the thread out of interests for exploring some different things and already noted he had work horse drums.
Old 15th April 2016
  #22
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
congrats, that's a cool unique kit. I think from what i am seeing they are all the same size, 22/13/16. In looking it up, I found these heads that I had been wishing existed, which are made of wood. I have an interest in one headed kettle drums, and the sonic properties of single headed drums with no opening at the other end. They are higher and have a more stable pitch than either concert toms or two headed toms. I think with these as a res head, you can get timpani like sounds from toms:

Forest King 100 Drumheads – Index Drums

I'd try out the aquarian deep vintage II 20mil heads on the kick for a deeper bass sound. And like I mentioned earlier, cardioid condensers on the toms up close.
wow fantastic! thankyou very much !! I am going to follow up on this definitley and get back on the results!!

Very keen on checking out that aquarian, you saved alit of research time for me!

Have you any other ideas for this kit?
Old 15th April 2016
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalopsia View Post
I did take the micky over one word, i am only being cheeky though, no harm mate

I really do see where you are coming from however, the OP started the thread out of interests for exploring some different things and already noted he had work horse drums.
Take the bottom heads off that $399 Questlove kit and you've saved $900 for the same sound (end result).
Old 15th April 2016
  #24
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Take the bottom heads off that $399 Questlove kit and you've saved $900 for the same sound (end result).
is this just based off youtube?
Old 15th April 2016
  #25
Both are essentially small sized, portable kits. That's what they are SOLD AS.
One has two heads and is $399, the other single headed and is $1200.
I've played numerous shallow shelled drums, numerous single headed drums and numerous small diameter drums.
Honestly? I know how they all sound.
I'm not really sure what you are arguing about, except that you have few Gearslutz posts and all have been positive about the C&C kit.
Old 15th April 2016
  #26
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Take the bottom heads off that $399 Questlove kit and you've saved $900 for the same sound (end result).
10/13/16 will not sound the same as 13/16/22, nor will the wood hoops vs triple flange. And it doesn't look anywhere near as cool. But you can take any kit above $500 and find a cheaper alternative that can sound just as good. I think I mentioned once I did an A/B with a $50 snare I bought off craigslist with a buddy's $1000 craviotto snare and we couldn't tell the difference.
Old 15th April 2016
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfiltered420 View Post
And it doesn't look anywhere near as cool. ..................I think I mentioned once I did an A/B with a $50 snare I bought off craigslist with a buddy's $1000 craviotto snare and we couldn't tell the difference.
YOU couldn't tell the difference..... but was it a professional recording session, or a theatre, concert hall venue?
The OP's question was Super Flyer kit for the STUDIO.
Post some recordings. 'Kalopsia' should too, as he proclaimed most other people's drum recordings to be boring. Let's hear where we are going wrong.
Looking cool is sort of irrelevant. You don't record studio drums with your eyes.
Old 15th April 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
YOU couldn't tell the difference..... but was it a professional recording session, or a theatre, concert hall venue?
The OP's question was Super Flyer kit for the STUDIO.
Post some recordings. 'Kalopsia' should too, as he proclaimed most other people's drum recordings to be boring. Let's hear where we are going wrong.
Looking cool is sort of irrelevant. You don't record studio drums with your eyes.
In an ideal world, maybe, but all of our senses are tied together. They have proven a bag of potato chips taste different if they are put in different colored bags. This kit would be fun to play, thus be inspiring.

And if you look at basically any blind test, especially on this forum, even the owners of the gear don't know their gear from cheaper stuff. Check out the Bricasti VS berhinger $100 reverb thread. it's embarrassing. This is not just me and my buddy. He was not happy that the snares sounded indistinguishable with the same heads and tuning. And even if you or someone could tell the difference, it's not like one would be noticeably better.

Again, we go back to the stradivarius violins, which couldn't be distinguished from modern equivalents in blind tests. This is a hard fact to get around. Violins are far more meticulous to produce than a drum. The reason so many people with so much listening skill were able to be fooled so long is because of confirmation bias and placebo effect.

What you are saying about the C&C and ludwig kit could be said about any high end kit and any lower priced alternative. If you disagree, you are not being rational. You are not any better at distinguishing drums than master violinists are at distinguishing stradivari.
Old 15th April 2016
  #29
Years and years of experience tells me I can differentiate between drums, even drums of equal monetary value.
Sorry, you are just wrong.
I'm playing an ASBA acrylic, a Noble & Cooley single headed kit and an Oaklawn Camco.
When I play them I can 100% hear the difference.
Not all cheap drums are bad by any means. Not all expensive drums are amazing either. But there are absolute differences.
Until you have had to use them day in day out in pressure situations you can't say otherwise.
One A/B test means nothing. The A/B tests on this forum arguably mean nothing as they are often made by amateurs in non-ideal circumstances...... and very often in non-music context circumstances.
I totally categorically reject your proposal that a $50 snare is as good as a $1000 Craviotto.
The $50 snare can sound as good in some circumstances, maybe in one or two sound set ups. the craviotto will sound good in a wider set of circumstances in a multitude of different set ups (different tunings, different heads).
On a personal note, you constantly make these claims and talk about how you can achieve better drum sounds, and record better sounds than other people ...... but we are yet to hear any evidence.
If you wanna keep claiming all cheap gear is as good as the higher end gear - - let's hear it. Post a bunch of examples.
My ASBA kit cost me £280. The bass drum is killer, but the toms are not great. The Camco cost me $1200 several years ago. It looks awful (beat up), but the toms AND bass drum sound fantastic every time.
Old 15th April 2016
  #30
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
YOU couldn't tell the difference..... but was it a professional recording session, or a theatre, concert hall venue?
The OP's question was Super Flyer kit for the STUDIO.
Post some recordings. 'Kalopsia' should too, as he proclaimed most other people's drum recordings to be boring. Let's hear where we are going wrong.
Looking cool is sort of irrelevant. You don't record studio drums with your eyes.
geez thats blown out

I like what I like. This forums about making music. Its art. so say you dont like the sound based on a youtube vid or past experience thats ok.

No need to take your own taste as gospel. Or mine as an insult.

I probably shouldnt have asked the youtube thing
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