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Why Does 90s House Sound More 'Alive' than Modern Day Retrospective 90s-style House?
Old 19th July 2020
  #421
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
I am a HW guy but I don't believe a word of all this "HW sounds better than SW" talk. It's just like with zodiac signs. People will believe what they want to believe, no matter if it only exists in their heads or if it would exist without their believes as well.
So I think the answer "it sounds better because you think it sounds better" was the most accurate one. This effect even is backed by science. E.g. if you think a device is better, you'll end up with better results, no matter if it's really better.
Well I've been watching a lot of comparison videos lately and not all but in a lot of cases the analogue sounds better, the Juno-106 comparison I heard yesterday did and the real 909 is better than all the boutique ones and the Roland Cloud one. Ok, sometimes it's fractional but to me I think it's probably fractional on the poly chord sound, then fractionally better in the bass, fractionally better in the drums (or more than that really with drums) etc etc and all the little fractionals add up to quite a bit. Then there was all the rest of the analogue gear they were using back in the day adding more niceness to it.

Another thing I've notice with some of these songs being posted (although a lot of them are Deep House and I'm talking Old Skool / Rave here) but they lack a decent tune or hook. They're bland and mundane sounding to me and go nowhere. I think a lot of electronic producers these days don't know how to write a catchy song or something that makes you go, "chooon!". I've been playing the guitar 22 years and have written hundreds of songs influenced by Beatles, Noel Gallagher, The Who, Radiohead, The Verve, Coldplay and stuff so I know how to write a good song with a catchy melody over the top.
Old 19th July 2020
  #422
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimconcept View Post
One thing that cannot be stressed enough was the mastering (Herb Powers... nuff said). We gave our DAT to the label, they sent it over to the mastering house and what we got back on a lacquer was always amazing.

To this day, I still have most of the same equipment and even went back and tried to recreate some of our released tracks from the early 90's for a project... but it's just different. Not just in terms of sound, but the timing/groove is really hard to emulate. But honestly, the equipment now is just sooooo much better and easier to operate.
So was what you got dramatically different in terms of production was it?
Old 19th July 2020
  #423
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimconcept View Post
One thing that cannot be stressed enough was the mastering (Herb Powers... nuff said). We gave our DAT to the label, they sent it over to the mastering house and what we got back on a lacquer was always amazing.

To this day, I still have most of the same equipment and even went back and tried to recreate some of our released tracks from the early 90's for a project... but it's just different. Not just in terms of sound, but the timing/groove is really hard to emulate. But honestly, the equipment now is just sooooo much better and easier to operate.
So was what you got dramatically different in terms of production was it?
Old 19th July 2020
  #424
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by creativemind View Post
Well I've been watching a lot of comparison videos lately and not all but in a lot of cases the analogue sounds better, the Juno-106 comparison I heard yesterday did and the real 909 is better than all the boutique ones and the Roland Cloud one. Ok, sometimes it's fractional but to me I think it's probably fractional on the poly chord sound, then fractionally better in the bass, fractionally better in the drums (or more than that really with drums) etc etc and all the little fractionals add up to quite a bit. Then there was all the rest of the analogue gear they were using back in the day adding more niceness to it.

Another thing I've notice with some of these songs being posted (although a lot of them are Deep House and I'm talking Old Skool / Rave here) but they lack a decent tune or hook. They're bland and mundane sounding to me and go nowhere. I think a lot of electronic producers these days don't know how to write a catchy song or something that makes you go, "chooon!". I've been playing the guitar 22 years and have written hundreds of songs influenced by Beatles, Noel Gallagher, The Who, Radiohead, The Verve, Coldplay and stuff so I know how to write a good song with a catchy melody over the top.
So you have been playing guitar and now are into electronic music and you want to blow a wad of cash on hardware because you think its the only reason tracks sound good?

I got news for you - if you cant make a banger with a TR8 and some Roland cloud plugins, it's not the gear. I'd suggest starting there. Buying lots of expensive hardware is really not a requirement anymore.

Last edited by Methlab; 19th July 2020 at 08:49 PM..
Old 19th July 2020
  #425
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
So you have been playing guitar and now are into electronic music and you want to blow a wad of cash on hardware because you think its the only reason tracks sound good?

I got news for you - if you cant make a banger with a TR8 and some Roland cloud plugins, it's not the gear. I'd suggest starting there. Buying lots of expensive hardware is really not a requirement anymore.
No I was just saying that I think (from the comparison videos I've watched lately, a good few) that analogue sounds better and sometimes something sounding better inspires you to write something. Not saying it can't be done digitally but think it takes more effort and knowledge production-wise where as the gear did most of that work back then.People have said here that they kinda just threw it all together and the production techniques were moderate / sparing.

I've always been into house / electronic music and guitar music too.

Something that occurred to me though lately as I was working on a track with samples is, how did they get the samples in time, time-stretched so to speak back then? I know that those Akai S1000's etc had that jungly time-stretch but could you normal time-stretch as well?
Old 21st July 2020
  #426
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
True that one. Before it was changed to 'Techno The new dance sound of detroit".

The word Techno came from Alvin Toffler's book "The Third Wave" in which he describes Detroit's new musical revolutionaries... "They are the techno rebels – musical agents of the third wave who see the fusion of man and machine as the only future."

Kraftwerk, Yello etc weren't even listed as Techno artists, not until very later on.
I'm certain it came from Kraftwerk's Electric Cafe which was played relentlessly on UK pirate radio while the whole scene was kicking off in 86-87. Pirate radio was instrumental in promoting the new music. It's where anyone in the UK would have got that compilation name from.
Old 21st July 2020
  #427
Lives for gear
 
NawSon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noisenation View Post
I'm certain it came from Kraftwerk's Electric Cafe which was played relentlessly on UK pirate radio while the whole scene was kicking off in 86-87. Pirate radio was instrumental in promoting the new music. It's where anyone in the UK would have got that compilation name from.
Cybotron, a Juan Atkins project, had a track called “Techno City” in 1984. But there are literally countless tellings of the story of how the compilation name got changed to Techno instead of House out there.

From Wikipedia:

“In fact, the compilation's working title had been The House Sound of Detroit until the addition of Juan Atkins' song "Techno Music" prompted reconsideration. Rushton was later quoted as saying he, Atkins, May, and Saunderson came up with the compilation's final name together, and that the Belleville Three voted down calling the music some kind of regional brand of house; they instead favored a term they were already using, techno.”
Old 21st July 2020
  #428
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NawSon View Post
Cybotron, a Juan Atkins project, had a track called “Techno City” in 1984. But there are literally countless tellings of the story of how the compilation name got changed to Techno instead of House out there.

From Wikipedia:

“In fact, the compilation's working title had been The House Sound of Detroit until the addition of Juan Atkins' song "Techno Music" prompted reconsideration. Rushton was later quoted as saying he, Atkins, May, and Saunderson came up with the compilation's final name together, and that the Belleville Three voted down calling the music some kind of regional brand of house; they instead favored a term they were already using, techno.”
Maybe this might help:-

https://music.ishkur.com/?fbclid=IwA...xKOBdUAefqqeuc
Old 25th July 2020
  #429
Lives for gear
comparison videos are all well and good. but you really need to hear "core" voices coming directly out of your speakers.

there's a whole world of differance.
Old 30th July 2020
  #430
Here for the gear
 
Inner_Motion's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24dB View Post
None of that other stuff even comes close to Gat Decor - Passion.

That track IS house music.

And sex. That song is also sex.

Once you hear Gat Decor's "Passion" it stays with you. I landed up at my first rave in South Africa in 1992. A girl in my History of Art class asked if I could give her boyfriend a lift - to his own party. Ended up being the organiser. A British DJ played what I later learnt was "Passion". Back then, the only way you could get hold of real house music was befriending people on the dancefloor and gettting hold of what was called "rave tapes." A cassette I got three weeks later hissed badly and had probably been copied five times. It was recorded at Club Eden, Cape Town's first house club. I recognised "Passion"'s unmistakeable piano riff.
I started DJ'ing the next year. There was only one DJ shop in Cape Town and one had to jockey for position just to get a chance to listen to any of the vinyls at a solitary Technics on the front counter.
To cut it as a DJ you had to find your own source. It duly came when I saw an ad in DJ magazine and phoned Global Groove Records in Stoke-on-Trent and spoke to a guy called Pete. He played me snippets of two tracks over the phone and chose the rest himself. The parcel arrived two weeks later. Needless to say, it was quite a selection.
When I finally got to London in 1996, I made sure I took a pilgrimage up north to hear store owner Pete Bromley play at a Golden event in Manchester. Probably the best warm-up set I ever heard. Dave Seaman was on afterwards.
To get back to "Passion", I never saw a dancefloor which didn't get lifted by that track. When I played it at the chill-out/dancefloor 2 area of a big outdoor psychedelic trance party near Cape Town in 2005, a woman with a British accent came up to the booth and said that she "knew that track" - cause her ex-boyfriend had written it. She further revealed that the boyfriend of the time had spent "ages" in the studio working on it, that the name Gat Decor was an anagram of the record store he used to run (Tag Records) and that - most astonishingly of all - she had actually chosen the title of the song!
Old 30th July 2020
  #431
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner_Motion View Post
Once you hear Gat Decor's "Passion" it stays with you. I landed up at my first rave in South Africa in 1992. A girl in my History of Art class asked if I could give her boyfriend a lift - to his own party. Ended up being the organiser. A British DJ played what I later learnt was "Passion". Back then, the only way you could get hold of real house music was befriending people on the dancefloor and gettting hold of what was called "rave tapes." A cassette I got three weeks later hissed badly and had probably been copied five times. It was recorded at Club Eden, Cape Town's first house club. I recognised "Passion"'s unmistakeable piano riff.
I started DJ'ing the next year. There was only one DJ shop in Cape Town and one had to jockey for position just to get a chance to listen to any of the vinyls at a solitary Technics on the front counter.
To cut it as a DJ you had to find your own source. It duly came when I saw an ad in DJ magazine and phoned Global Groove Records in Stoke-on-Trent and spoke to a guy called Pete. He played me snippets of two tracks over the phone and chose the rest himself. The parcel arrived two weeks later. Needless to say, it was quite a selection.
When I finally got to London in 1996, I made sure I took a pilgrimage up north to hear store owner Pete Bromley play at a Golden event in Manchester. Probably the best warm-up set I ever heard. Dave Seaman was on afterwards.
To get back to "Passion", I never saw a dancefloor which didn't get lifted by that track. When I played it at the chill-out/dancefloor 2 area of a big outdoor psychedelic trance party near Cape Town in 2005, a woman with a British accent came up to the booth and said that she "knew that track" - cause her ex-boyfriend had written it. She further revealed that the boyfriend of the time had spent "ages" in the studio working on it, that the name Gat Decor was an anagram of the record store he used to run (Tag Records) and that - most astonishingly of all - she had actually chosen the title of the song!
That's a great story. I'm from Stoke-on-Trent and remember that record shop. It's a hairdressers now (I think?) I bought a record from there when I was about 16 (1992) called New Style (Gnin Gnin Gnon Gni) can't remember who by. Will have a look on You Tube and attach it to this post if it's there. I loved rave music before that, got into it at about 14yo but from 10-about 15 I was obsessed with skateboarding so that consumed my life from those ages. I wish I'd have just bought a couple of records a week from Global Groove. I missed out on so many classics. A couple of people on my Facebook have a hefty collection. 1 posts a couple a day of You Tube links and says got this one and got that one.
Old 6th August 2020
  #432
Gear Nut
 
akajuan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1993 View Post
No, the word "Techno" is not from this book and has nothing to do with Detroit at this time.

Hint:

In 1982, Talla 2XLC had begun to use the term techno as a genre name for instrumental electronic dance music at Frankfurt's City Music record store, when he started to categorize certain tracks by artists such as New Order, Depeche Mode, Kraftwerk, Heaven 17 and Front 242 under the heading techno, to sum up all technologically created dance music.
It came from that 1980 book and there is no doubt about it, the same goes for names such as Cybotron, Metroplex (and Transmat as well IIRC). See below:

"The oldest, Juan ‘The Originator’ Atkins, was the first to get turntables and taught his friends how to DJ as well as being the first to dabble with music creation. One of his university class-mates, Richard Davies, turned him onto the writings of futurist Alvin Toffler which inspired the two to release reverential, futuristic music that, like Kraftwerk, celebrated the link between the man and the machine."

https://www.dummymag.com/features/th...he-first-wave/


"There was definitely something that made us click," recalls Atkins. "We talked lots about Alvin Toffler's idea of the 'third wave' and developed what you might call a techno-speak dictionary. In this dictionary were a lot of words like metroplex and cybotron. That's where these names came from. Metroplex is short for 'metrocomplex', which was a future word that Toffler mentioned. It referred to his scenarios in Future Shock and Third Wave where cities over the world would grow so big that they would all become one. This was a metrocomplex."

https://hqinfo.blogspot.com/2016/08/...her-of_31.html


“The Techno Rebels are, whether they recognise it or not, agents of the Third Wave. They will not vanish but multiply in the years ahead. For they are as much a part of the advance to a new stage of civilisation as our missions to Venus, our amazing computers, our biological discoveries, or our explorations of the oceanic depths.” The Third Wave, Alvin Toffler.

A very interesting book indeed and very recommended read if you want to understand the zeitgeist of the times when Techno was created.
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