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What % of released edm tracks are using sample packs for drum loop! groove , etc ?
Old 20th December 2014
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
Some of you don't make sense , so let me get this right , so it's ok for moodyman to sample every fukin thing because he's up on his mpc all night but it's not ok to use a sample pack ? Get for real it's the same fukin thing just used differently . I could play you a track and you would say O it's alright it's preaty cool but soon as I say hey moodyman made that you'll say O wow it's fukin epic but if I say hey that kid in the basement next door to you made it you would say yea its ok but he's just sampling stuff , haha get for real .
Sampling a disco record is more work than using a loop from a sample pack. I've done both in the past. Sampling a record takes time finding a suitable drum break, record, chop and then somehow make it work in a modern context. It's never just ready to go like a sample pack.

You can use loops if you want, you can do anything you want. Some people will notice you use loops and you will start hearing tracks that use the same loop. It happened to me soon after I finishing my first tune. As for Moodymann, I think he's good but I've only got a couple of his records. I don't like it just because its Moodymann. If you played me an ok sounding Moodymann track, which there are many of, I wouldn't all of a sudden like it just because you told me it was Moodymann. I'd be far more excited if there was a kid in the basement making electronic music even if it was only ok. Why wouldn't you support your local scene?
Old 20th December 2014
  #62
You guys got me all loopy
Old 20th December 2014
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
No this is really just a message to producers in the basement attic wherever who don't understand why there tracks don't slam and hit the way they need to , to be successful and compete , just to let them know that many pro producers also use sample packs and don't feel bad for using them , you may already understand this but many do not .
Using sample packs is a shortcut to sounding like generic garbage. Practically everyone uses sample packs and that's one of the reasons most EDM sucks! if someone is making their own beats but they're not quite up to standard they should keep practicing. They will get there eventually and be able to get their ideas down quicker than it takes hunting for the right loop. Loop browsing is very time consuming.
Old 20th December 2014
  #64
Gear Addict
 
Bath Knight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds View Post
Using sample packs is a shortcut to sounding like generic garbage.
But it makes the rest of us sound better.
Old 20th December 2014
  #65
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xanax's Avatar
anybody doubting moodymann's skills should check out black mahogani.. he's doing a lot more then fitting loops together.. try and achieve this with a sample pack:



Old 20th December 2014
  #66
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roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
so wait you're a true essence underground artist with over 10,000 vinyl records yet you use sample packs?!
..dude you just discredited the entire hip-hop & house production history as they are pretty much built on sampling records...
You have to read .
I never said I used them I was alway against them but not any more .
Your obviously a seasoned pro forgive me .

All I'm talking about for the 10th time is sample packs for drums .
BTW all house music is not sampled based
ever heard of Kerry Chandler , Blaze , Larry Heard etc...

As for hip hop well ill just leave it .
Old 20th December 2014
  #67
Gear Head
 

As the guy who originally invoked Moodymann in this thread, and the one who suggested that some people might find gratification in following their heart/passion rather than trying to 'get in the game,' I feel compelled to respond even though this has devolved into lunacy.
I thought the original post was interesting in terms of raising a couple of points that are philosophically worth pondering if you are going to seriously pursue making electronic music with the intent of making something people will want to listen to some day. In the original post you note how sample pack loops often contain a level of production quality that is quite high, and you sort of wonder aloud why there should be any problem in using them. Then people responded basically saying if you want to use them, go ahead, but if you want to achieve your own sound then it's probably best to do your own thing.
It's confusing because at the same time as defending your wanting to use sample packs to make tracks in order to get to the place you want to be faster, you invoke a guy like Kerri Chandler. Also, saying it's wrong to tell aspiring producers to follow their heart is a criticism of me, of something I said, and that is an argument you can't win, if you want to go down that road. There's more to life than being Avicii or whoever it is you are aspiring to be. Any success I have had has come from doing what I wanted to do, following my interest, working hard at what I found interesting despite what was going on around me. Lots of others can say the same thing. ANd when you do achieve success in this way, it is very gratifying.
Old 20th December 2014
  #68
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roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
anybody doubting moodymann's skills should check out black mahogani.. he's doing a lot more then fitting loops together.. try and achieve this with a sample pack:
At leased the sample pack is legal moodys work is not .

Like I said you keep dressing it up but Moody is basically just making his own sample pack but it's still samples but somehow he's better than someone who uses a sample pack even just for drums that is a weak point my friend but if you want to crown him then crown him them .

Old 20th December 2014
  #69
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xanax's Avatar
what can i say.. haters gonna hate.. have you even listened to the tracks i posted? there is live playing on them.. keys, bass, saxophone.. the drums are a mix of programmed drum machines and deconstructed breaks... it simply has nothing to do with what you're talking about which is using straight loops.. i can also assure you kerri, blaze & larry don't use sample packs either..

anyways we can sit here all day arguing about moodymann or sampling..and still not agree... so attempting to MOVE THE DISCUSSION FORWARD and actually answer you're original question.. you can achieve great grooves by learning to program & arrange your drums. it's definitely a skill of it's own as any drummer will confess to you. there are also many tricks to make 'electronic' programmed drums not sound stiff & lifeless. a good start could be investing in an actual drum machine. even something hybrid like NI Maschine if you're working ITB. mixing drums can also be challenging and should be approached carefully..
Old 20th December 2014
  #70
Wildfunk
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
You see Europe got all these DJ,producers thinking there special but secretly behind close doors they know the truth . The truth is production skill have falling way down especially in the US . Now Germany has most of the dope **** now and places like that .
Germany has what?

Germany plays no role in the EDM game! All good music comes from the UK, Netherlands or US. Just look at the Beatport charts... where are the Germans?

I see Germany just as a technical provider (Ableton, Bitwig, Cubase, NI, Samplitude, U-He) for the global producing society. It's the same like with their cars.

Germany just has Zedd (and had Kraftwerk), thousands of idiots producing minimal and the "famous" Berghain (just another boring minimal club).

Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
At leased the sample pack is legal moodys work is not .
How do you know that? I've bought several samplepacks where the theft was more than blatantly.
Old 20th December 2014
  #71
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roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfmachine View Post
As the guy who originally invoked Moodymann in this thread, and the one who suggested that some people might find gratification in following their heart/passion rather than trying to 'get in the game,' I feel compelled to respond even though this has devolved into lunacy.
I thought the original post was interesting in terms of raising a couple of points that are philosophically worth pondering if you are going to seriously pursue making electronic music with the intent of making something people will want to listen to some day. In the original post you note how sample pack loops often contain a level of production quality that is quite high, and you sort of wonder aloud why there should be any problem in using them. Then people responded basically saying if you want to use them, go ahead, but if you want to achieve your own sound then it's probably best to do your own thing.
It's confusing because at the same time as defending your wanting to use sample packs to make tracks in order to get to the place you want to be faster, you invoke a guy like Kerri Chandler. Also, saying it's wrong to tell aspiring producers to follow their heart is a criticism of me, of something I said, and that is an argument you can't win, if you want to go down that road. There's more to life than being Avicii or whoever it is you are aspiring to be. Any success I have had has come from doing what I wanted to do, following my interest, working hard at what I found interesting despite what was going on around me. Lots of others can say the same thing. ANd when you do achieve success in this way, it is very gratifying.
Well said but I believe you have misunderstood , I will not try to address every little thing but due appreciate you insight but I will say this , this is not about trying to being Avicil but whats wrong with that for all we know he could be the hardest worker , this is about small victories for a producer who would like to go further than a hobbyist but when I see people give passes to people based upon their approach it is absolutely ridiculous to me , the finale result is all that maters on the dance floor . The ultimate truth is theres no proper way to make a track but some people have the nerve to say your doing it wrong , what level of arrogance is that I don't want to know .And I will no longer tolerate people trying to sell a producer or dj to me as if there so great the heavens opened up when the truth is many of them are so overrated to me . The reason I said Kerry Chandler and Blaze even is because there music is purely organic not sample based and still sound like the deepest dope stuff around years later .
But it's all good .
Old 20th December 2014
  #72
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
You guys need to relax! It's Saturday!

I personally love Moodymann. I think his productions are insanely good, the way he can mangle the samples. You might also want to look at S3A as an artist that's pretty good w/ a sampler. It's not as soulful/deep, but quality stuff.

I can see both sides to this argument though. Moody's at the top of the list when it comes to incorporating samples IMO, but the truth of the matter is samples are samples - whether they're from some funk record only people in San Francisco ever heard or not, it's still a sample. Those who use sample packs are likely using the whole sample and likely not mangling them such as the true sampling artists are. So I think to have a proper discussion, you need to break this down further...is it OK to use a sample pack in relatively uncut form (and are many of the popular club tunes doing this?) or is it OK to use an obscure sample or mangle the hell out of it until it's not really recognizable as the original? (a la Moody, S3A, etc.) But...this argument can really go down a helluva wormhole, because then is it OK to use a sample in only a minority of productions, what if the sample is really just a background thing, blah blah blah?

I'll use samples I've found or sample records, sometimes I mangle them and sometimes I won't. It just depends on the song, the sample and how the two fit together. And thinking Larry Heard and Kerri Chandler, Blaze, etc. never sampled anything...I think you're probably very wrong in that regard. It may not have been consistent, but I'd be willing to put down a bunch of money that they have. So much of the early deep house sound was sampled chords pitched up and down to fit the key of the song being produced. Is that kind of sampling OK?

Long story short, I don't really care how the popular artists are making their tunes. I don't care how the artists I really enjoy make their tunes in regards to samples. I just want to hear good music, and if I'm lucky, maybe make some myself.
Old 20th December 2014
  #73
Gear Addict
 
Der Laborant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roc View Post
The reason I said Kerry Chandler and Blaze even is because there music is purely organic not sample based and still sound like the deepest dope stuff around years later .
Well, I could imagen Kerry used an Akai at some point but whatever
Old 20th December 2014
  #74
Ot
Heard armins new tune? Benne must not be helping him. Sounds like his first release as a solo producer. Lol
Old 20th December 2014
  #75
Lives for gear
 
roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
what can i say.. haters gonna hate.. have you even listened to the tracks i posted? there is live playing on them.. keys, bass, saxophone.. the drums are a mix of programmed drum machines and deconstructed breaks... it simply has nothing to do with what you're talking about which is using straight loops.. i can also assure you kerri, blaze & larry don't use sample packs either..

anyways we can sit here all day arguing about moodymann or sampling..and still not agree... so attempting to MOVE THE DISCUSSION FORWARD and actually answer you're original question.. you can achieve great grooves by learning to program & arrange your drums. it's definitely a skill of it's own as any drummer will confess to you. there are also many tricks to make 'electronic' programmed drums not sound stiff & lifeless. a good start could be investing in an actual drum machine. even something hybrid like NI Maschine if you're working ITB. mixing drums can also be challenging and should be approached carefully..
It's all good man and yes I have those songs and many more by him .

Thanks for you input that was great and informative .
I'm also a JDilla fan

thanks
Old 20th December 2014
  #76
Gear Addict
 
Der Laborant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfunk View Post
Germany has what?

Germany plays no role in the EDM game! All good music comes from the UK, Netherlands or US. Just look at the Beatport charts... where are the Germans?

I see Germany just as a technical provider (Ableton, Bitwig, Cubase, NI, Samplitude, U-He) for the global producing society. It's the same like with their cars.

Germany just has Zedd (and had Kraftwerk), thousands of idiots producing minimal and the "famous" Berghain (just another boring minimal club).
C'mon there are some kool guyz in germany doing dopy dope stuff, but yeah there is alot of crap around. You know that Wankelkraft, Klangwerk, Tonfunkwerkstattbehausung and Kettenkarussell e.g, these artists who make use of Wortschöpfungskombinatorik heh lot of loop packs I say, the german goa progressive scene that is emerging more and more is using vengeance and presets to death.
Or kickdrum reverb techno with bleeps and blops, risers, hits and that's it

+1 on the netherlands
Old 20th December 2014
  #77
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roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
You guys need to relax! It's Saturday!

I personally love Moodymann. I think his productions are insanely good, the way he can mangle the samples. You might also want to look at S3A as an artist that's pretty good w/ a sampler. It's not as soulful/deep, but quality stuff.

I can see both sides to this argument though. Moody's at the top of the list when it comes to incorporating samples IMO, but the truth of the matter is samples are samples - whether they're from some funk record only people in San Francisco ever heard or not, it's still a sample. Those who use sample packs are likely using the whole sample and likely not mangling them such as the true sampling artists are. So I think to have a proper discussion, you need to break this down further...is it OK to use a sample pack in relatively uncut form (and are many of the popular club tunes doing this?) or is it OK to use an obscure sample or mangle the hell out of it until it's not really recognizable as the original? (a la Moody, S3A, etc.) But...this argument can really go down a helluva wormhole, because then is it OK to use a sample in only a minority of productions, what if the sample is really just a background thing, blah blah blah?

I'll use samples I've found or sample records, sometimes I mangle them and sometimes I won't. It just depends on the song, the sample and how the two fit together. And thinking Larry Heard and Kerri Chandler, Blaze, etc. never sampled anything...I think you're probably very wrong in that regard. It may not have been consistent, but I'd be willing to put down a bunch of money that they have. So much of the early deep house sound was sampled chords pitched up and down to fit the key of the song being produced. Is that kind of sampling OK?

Long story short, I don't really care how the popular artists are making their tunes. I don't care how the artists I really enjoy make their tunes in regards to samples. I just want to hear good music, and if I'm lucky, maybe make some myself.
You have said everything I was trying to say and more much better than I could and I agree with your whole post .
Old 20th December 2014
  #78
The percentage is pretty high and it sucks, cause everything sounds the same. Especially in some genres like Tech House for example and probably Deep House these days. Anyway using only loops or construction sets for your drums is lame and you can tell as soon as you hear it, it sounds like a million other tracks. Single shots is the way to go, its great fun building a slamming drum groove and not hard at all with practice.

Loops are useful for organic stuff like shakers and bongos. I got a remix pack a few years ago (Ableton file) where the guy used exclusively loops, its was shocking, not a single sound was his own. I think its just lazy and unoriginal, but different strokes for different folks.


haha loads of great electronic music in Germany, glad its not in the Beatport charts
.
Old 20th December 2014
  #79
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roc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post

Loops are useful for organic stuff like shakers and bongos.
.
And this is really the main reason I had for considering using loops for percussion .
Old 20th December 2014
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post

Loops are useful for organic stuff like shakers and bongos.
No they aren't, really.
You can make your tunes sound way more organic, by recording your own shakers.

One shot samples can be great, if you know how to place and process them.
Old 20th December 2014
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybay View Post
No they aren't, really.
You can make your tunes sound way more organic, by recording your own shakers.
Yeah I have a shaker and eggs, and have made my own too in the past, but usually I'll just reach for a loop and mangle it. Saves me time.


.
Old 20th December 2014
  #82
Gear Addict
 
Der Laborant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybay View Post
No they aren't, really.
You can make your tunes sound way more organic, by recording your own shakers.

One shot samples can be great, if you know how to place and process them.
Organic Shaker - Attack Magazine

I can only repeat myself, attack magazines "beat dissected" is gold for learning to create yo own drum loops

their is one for bongos too
Old 13th October 2015
  #83
Gear Maniac
 
sexyman's Avatar
The people who buy music now and then do not give a toss if its original from loops or what ever they only care about one thing.
Why buy ply wood to build your shed why not be original, plant a tree then saw your own timber.
Why buy ready made milk from the shop to make you tea, be original put a cow in your back yard for milk.
Why buy toilet paper to wipe arse, be original use a rock stone from the garden, or do it sloppy dropy.
It could go on all day long. loops are selling like hot bread now.
Smart people no longer walk 32 miles to the closest food shop they drive, leaving the not smart ones behind still bickering about original.
Old 7th December 2016
  #84
Gear Addict
 
xXGreenXx90's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfunk View Post
No surprise! Their tracks have no "content" (only drums, risers, effects).

But again: Don't focus on the drums! Focus on a strong melody instead!

Just an early house example from 1986:
Sounds like Eric Prydz - Pjanoo
Old 7th December 2016
  #85
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ScottBrio's Avatar
My songs got 10x better when I realized how much I was sifting through loop packs for inspiration. You're never going to find an original sound in there, because the loops aren't made (IMO) with the same intent. Every nuance of sound I make has a purpose and a reason for being there. Every time I tried to throw a pre-made loop into my tracks they instantly feel like they aren't mine.

Sample packs are a different story. Sure, they may contain some loops, but I never use those unless I chop them up, rearrange, re-pitch... but even then it's not likely.

Learn synthesis. Learn what your gear does. Practice so much that your tricks become second nature. Craft your sound.

The majority of what I hear at the top of the Beatport charts is commercial EDM- likely loop based, or if it's not, it may as well be because it's all sounds the same. Dada Life and Marshmellow are good examples of this. They have the catchy sound, the hype, the chords... but there's something missing. DEPTH. There's no warm line level buzz or creamy filtered breakdowns. It's all shrill, in your face, gimmicky sounds.

Artists like Justin Martin, Claude VonStroke, Flume, Odesza, J Dilla... they're not using loops and you can hear it. They 100% use sample packs- one shots- but that's it. Even those are tweaked. THAT'S where the depth comes in. That's what earns fans for life- not just fans for the night
Old 7th December 2016
  #86
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TornadoTed's Avatar
I personally don't use any loops, I just can't bring myself to use any, it really feels like I am cheating but I do use them as a reference. Like the OP I struggle with drums more than any other element but I am getting better since I had a 'lightbulb' moment 6 months or so back. I will, along with most mix engineers AB commercial tracks as a reference when mixing so why not take that a step further. I will load in a drum loop of something loosely similar to what I want to make and then reference it as I build my drum track from single hits. I don't try to recreate it, just use the reference for groove, frequency balance, compression, distortion and other processing etc. Once my drums are at the level of production and make me want to move like the loop does, which is easier said than done then I am finished. Incidentally I haven't got to that level yet but I am getting closer and learning all the time.
Old 15th February 2017
  #87
Gear Head
 

I've just come to this thread and it's really astounding how much loads of people know about "gear" but know very little about music. Some guy's comment about Berghain was hilariously ill-informed as well, so what else are these "producers" hilariously ill-informed about? Again, from what I've read, quite a lot.

Yes, gear is great but not everyone can afford gear in their present circumstances, so they have to do what they can.

The lack of knowledge about modern house music is laughable as well. This forum is a joke when it comes to actually knowing about anything other than what gear is good for what situation.

I don't use loops and samples that much, but there is nothing wrong with using them to learn from.

Unless it's an accomplished producer (not engineer or gear enthusiast) giving you advice, I would take everything people on this forum say with a pinch of salt and just focus on making music.
Old 18th August 2017
  #88
Gear Addict
 

I will produce my own drums (Maschine, Battery, Kontakt, etc), live drums and i layer a purchased loop(s) over top to fill it out. In fact I love layering loops. I will just High Pass all drum layers except one so multiple kicks do not muddy up low end.

I've heard Apple Loops on some tracks. I say use whatever works. Especially when composing rough demos or outlines of a new track. It's way more important, IMO, to get the general idea down rather than spend so much time tweaking and building to the point you lose the inspiration.
Old 28th April 2020
  #89
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottBrio View Post
Artists like Justin Martin, Claude VonStroke, Flume, Odesza, J Dilla... they're not using loops and you can hear it. They 100% use sample packs- one shots- but that's it. Even those are tweaked. THAT'S where the depth comes in. That's what earns fans for life- not just fans for the night
Hate to be a buzzkill but...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Flume/commen..._thread_vol_2/

Flume is 100% using loops. Just goes to show in the end it's the user not the tools. Hot take - anyone who genuinely argues that using loops, or plugins, or presets will lead to generic trash is just using their elitism to rationalize their mediocrity
Old 28th April 2020
  #90
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ScottBrio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenzer View Post

Flume is 100% using loops. Just goes to show in the end it's the user not the tools. Hot take - anyone who genuinely argues that using loops, or plugins, or presets will lead to generic trash is just using their elitism to rationalize their mediocrity
Yes, thanks I posted that 4 years ago. I've since joined the Flume loops subreddit ;D

And I agree with your statement. Loops are the best way to get a jumping point on your song. Dance music these days is disposable unfortunately. Speed and consistency is king, so reinventing the wheel every time you need a tops or shaker loop is frankly just stupid. These loops aren't making awesome music on their own
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