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Why does trance get such a bad rap?
Old 14th January 2010
  #1
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Why does trance get such a bad rap?

Obviously just like anything it depends on where you go, but why is the overall opinion of trance going down the tubes as of late. Even one of the biggest DJs in the world has turned his back on the notion of "trance Music"......

Trance Energy 2009 Paul van Dyk interview on Vimeo

Interview with Paul Van Dyk......It's pretty funny. haha he says trance is cheesy **** nowa days and he's a Electronic music DJ. I couldn't agree more with his on the soul of the music but even the artists he names, John O'callaghan, John O'bir are almost totally consiered "Trance" producers.

So I do agree with him that the heart and soul of the music has changed since it first came out about but I think like anything, it's evolving. For the longest time I considered myself a trance DJ and producer but now I just stick to dance music or progressive dance producer because of the negative connotation being a trance DJ invokes.

Why is it this way? What happened in the dance music community over the last 8-10 years that made people despise this genres original given name. There are thousands of tracks out nowa days that could be by all musical accounts be labeled House, Techno, and Trance at the same time yet the later get's the bad rap.

Is it the association to warehouse parties with little 16 year old girls running around with butterfly wings on getting f***ed by the creepy 39 year old party favor consultant? In my mind it can't possibly be the music itself if the many top DJs in the world are consistently playing what the masses would consider to be trance music. Then what is it that cases the negative stigma? Just thinking out loud.

Cheers friends!

-JBV
Old 14th January 2010
  #2
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Oh and for all the people that plan to respond simply "because trance sucks" or something of the like, please refrain because we all know how subjective musical taste is. I don't knock yours, please don't knock mine.
Old 14th January 2010
  #3
Mr Arkadin
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There was a time when trance wasn't cheesy? Please give me some names or links because everything i've heard sounds awful (i'm not trolling). i love Techno, House, Acid House, Drum & Bass, Dubstep etc. so it's not like i don't like dance music (there are other genres of dance i don't like - happy hardcore anyone?).
Old 14th January 2010
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin View Post
happy hardcore anyone?
oh god just reading that makes me twitch..
Old 14th January 2010
  #5
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Here's a solid progressive trance tune (with some obvious psy influence)..... I personally don't hear any cheese there....

YouTube - Suntree - Lonesome Dream


IMO stunning production quality as well....
Old 14th January 2010
  #6
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i consider etnica circa 1991 to be trance

music transforms. thats a given.

however, what we now know as trance--which used to be called euro trance--spawned happy hardcore and that is a sin that can never be forgiven. tutt
Old 14th January 2010
  #7
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ugly people in ugly clothing
the most cheesy and boring synth sounds
horrible vocals
rhythmically boring
to many arpeggios
to many formulas, always the same drums, bass, big breakdown
i've met some very elitist trance producers
Old 14th January 2010
  #8
Mr Arkadin
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i think with the Trance i've heard it always has the 'ambient break down' about two thirds in, some voice samples, with the 'rat-a-tat-a-tat snare roll' leading into the 'uplifting anthem'. i always cringe at that point.

That one was OK (was that more PsyTrance though?).
Old 14th January 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds View Post
ugly people in ugly clothing
the most cheesy and boring synth sounds
horrible vocals
rhythmically boring
to many arpeggios
to many formulas, always the same drums, bass, big breakdown
i've met some very elitist trance producers
Again, These are all personal opinions. Similar judgments could be said by any given individual about any other style of anything.

Oh and to add, I've met Breaks, Jungle, House, and DNB DJs/Producers/afficianados who are just as elitist as any trance DJ/producer/afficianado. I feel sorry for the people that can't get over the fact that it's all just expression in a different form and appreciate it all, but hey...
Old 14th January 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin View Post
There was a time when trance wasn't cheesy?
when trance wasn't cheesy it was called 'techno'. trance started to suck when they started calling it trance.
Old 14th January 2010
  #11
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Ha! Just watched that interview. If he thinks that his music doesn't sound like trance he's in DENIAL.
Old 14th January 2010
  #12
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Trance and a masterpiece

YouTube - Jam & Spoon - Stella (The best Video)
Old 14th January 2010
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
Again, These are all personal opinions. Similar judgments could be said by any given individual about any other style of anything.
yes your right but those are the reasons why trance gets such a bad rap.
it's the personal opinions of millions of people. if you look at the DJ mag top 100 DJ's poll you will see trance is very popular but at the same time it's probably the most hated form of electronic music. you either love it or you hate it.
Old 14th January 2010
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignatius View Post
when trance wasn't cheesy it was called 'techno'. trance started to suck when they started calling it trance.

There in lies my entire point. Who gives a flip what it's called, the music would still be constructed the same way beats, melodies, drops, and all other quintessential musical attributes whether it was called Hypno-tech-step or Trance.

Why does it get a negative assocaition based solely upon the musical content where as people don't knock on Junglists for having dread locks and wearing camouflage all the time? It just seems like trance is the scapegoat of the entire EDM music community.
Old 14th January 2010
  #15
Deleted 46dc28f
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Sasha and Digweed's Northern Exposure II - East and West Coast Editions are examples of trance done right. Their live sets are amazing. Granted, they fall into the Prog trance/house category.
Old 14th January 2010
  #16
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ignatius is right. back in the day--techno, thats right: detroit, florida breaks, chichago house--had a feel, a soul. not saying it doesn't now. But the soul changed. Not better or worse. Music is so personal so this is just one long ass perspective:

the night life was different. raves were a flyer to some corner parking lot where some dude would hand out a map and then a drive to bfe where inside this warehouse where all kinds of f'd up people were getting their boogey on.

this got shut down after the 5.0 was contacted by the christian coalition. there were after parties at clubs around two, esp at the raves got shut down. The thing was, at the time, these were intimate affairs. Sort of, without waxing too nostalgically. Its hard to put the vibe into words, but there was this whole group of mutants attracted to the counter-culture aspect of the scene. The whole point was we were out having a good time AT THE SAME CLUB the drunk jocks were just groping their drunk cheerleader girlfriends to come one eileen not minutes before the lights went on. The music was not completely accessible--still fun, but there was a bit of an edge. The two scenes did not mix. The after party was weird, and people at the after party thought the pre-party scene was uncool. At least the areas I'm thinking of.

When euro trance really came up big was when the after hours night clubs started playing more accessible forms of electronic music as the main event, and not just in metropolitan areas. It seemed like in 1999 everyone was opening a club, everyone was a dj, and everyone had these nice records that were the complete opposite of the counter culture movement: popular.

So for anyone who remembers how bizarre the early 90s could be, really helter skelter stuff sometimes, the plastic sound stage of Dj flavor of the area was something completely different and thus, for me anyway bad.

One could argue there was always a formula and I was just getting old. And I am not one of those who say the new stuff is all crap. I do think 2001-2005 was a bit more miss then hit BUT I'm happy to report all is well in the universe again.
Old 14th January 2010
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds View Post
yes your right but those are the reasons why trance gets such a bad rap.
it's the personal opinions of millions of people. if you look at the DJ mag top 100 DJ's poll you will see trance is very popular but at the same time it's probably the most hated form of electronic music. you either love it or you hate it.
I don't understand how it can be the most appreciated by individuals that vote for their favorite DJs worldwide and yest be most hated? Most hated by who? Obviously not the masses. If it were most hated then DJs with other music style would be top of that list.

Pendulum, Uberzone, Shy FX and a whole host of non trance and fundamentally different style are on that list, so people can vote for them too. This is where I come back to it can't possibly be most hated if it's consistently voted top of the ranks??
Old 14th January 2010
  #18
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I think over the years it just became formulaic and too commercial, it was appropriated, chewed up and spat out by the mainstream. Before that happened there were some great tunes made, here's an Oliver Lieb one from 1994:



Another old favourite:

Old 14th January 2010
  #19
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Old 14th January 2010
  #20
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Ok som i'm going to try and sum up a little of what I'm hearing. Please let me know if I'm off base.

In the Mid-late 90s up till about 2001 (ehh 2000 to be safe) trance was coming about and still exciting. It was new. It had wow factor. So many people said "Wow I want to do that" that over the years of 2001-2005 so much ****ty trance was put out that it put a bad taste in peoples mouth. Despite the fact that there was good stuff to, there was just soo much bad that it tipped the scale against the label of "trance music". This being as it is other electronic music genres still had a stable amount of talent, interest, and WOW factor as to not upset the natural balance.

Is what I gather accurate?

And thank you all for helping me understand. I really appreciate it.
Old 14th January 2010
  #21
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i remember reading an interview with sven vath and he said he was sick of trance by 1992.
Old 14th January 2010
  #22
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I think it was when they started using VAs it all went downhill
Old 14th January 2010
  #23
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To the OP: Have you even heard Paul van Dyk's ****? It's the cheeziest **** in the trance scene. Paul van Dyk is a joke. Don't read too much into what he has to say. He has pretty much dissed on any popular DJ in his career

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
Why is it this way? What happened in the dance music community over the last 8-10 years that made people despise this genres original given name. There are thousands of tracks out nowa days that could be by all musical accounts be labeled House, Techno, and Trance at the same time yet the later get's the bad rap.
It's because trance sells. Yes, there was ****load of drugs and weird costumes back in the day, but nowadays trance is pretty serious and broad. You have epic trance, uplifting trance, prog trance, psy trance, etc... that's why you see DJs like pual van dyk crying - because trance is getting more and more housy and house is getting more and more trancy. If you go back to the old skool trance tracks you'll **** your pants with the cheesyness and supersaws. Yet, because it was kinda underground it was cool.

Similar thing is happening with IDM nowadays. Back when there were no glitch plugins Autechre were considered gods, now that any kid can make glitchy sounds and be ae #2 it somehow not good or cool anymore. FFS Linkin Park uses a lot of glitchy sounds in their music.

The second thing is the nature of (close minded) people aka what I call "the grandpa effect". Most mature people will ALWAYS complain about the "good old days". Every metal, rock, rap, techno, trance etc... fanbase has people crying all the time about the good old days when they just started getting into music. What these idiots don't understand is that they were young and viewed the world with different eyes and also the music evolves through time. I was a huge rap fan back in the day and I kinda stopped listening to it when it hit mainstream. And everytime I hear some nigga whining about his girl through autotune on the radio and be proclaimed as the "rap's next big thing".... a piece of me dies


Also, I suspect many people here don't even know what trance really is. So here's a small collection of some of tunes I'm bangin a lot lately - that kinda show the variety I was talking about.

YouTube - Cerf, Mitiska & Jaren - Beggin' you (Armin van Buuren remix)
YouTube - First State feat. Elliot Johns - Your Own Way (Original Mix)
YouTube - Cosmic Gate - Not Enough Time (Club Mix)[HQ]
YouTube - Rank 1 - L.E.D. There Be Light (Official Video)

Also, it's funny that every year someone comes along and claims how trance is dying etc... Yet I have never ever seen any other DJ than a trance DJ sell out 20.000+ stadiums, the biggest events are trance oriented, the highest dj mag poll DJs are trance DJs, the biggest EDM radio shows are trance shows, etc...
It's like Tiesto once said; everyone claims trance is dying, yet whenever I go to a festival the biggest tent is the trance stage.
Old 14th January 2010
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by br0ken View Post
Also, it's funny that every year someone comes along and claims how trance is dying etc... Yet I have never ever seen any other DJ than a trance DJ sell out 20.000+ stadiums, the biggest events are trance oriented, the highest dj mag poll DJs are trance DJs, the biggest EDM radio shows are trance shows, etc...
It's like Tiesto once said; everyone claims trance is dying, yet whenever I go to a festival the biggest tent is the trance stage.
The McDonalds of dance music then?
Old 14th January 2010
  #25
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Yeah, it's most definitely not a "by 2000 it was played-out" situation. It was played out long before then, if it ever wasn't played out. Really, wasn't it always considered an inferior variety of music to what was actually going down?
I know there are a variety of musical tastes, but anytime I hear some DJ on the radio talk about the upcoming trance or psy-trance set his guest DJ buddy is going to play, I always have an expectation of what it's going to be, it's always exactly what my expectation is, it's always the same as it's been for almost 20 years while a profusion of new genres have pushed electronic music to the point that there should be a global law against playing trance music, and it's always bad.
My connotation with trance is "trance lite." Weak sounds, weak sequencing, weak-mindedness...
I like what I have self-defined as trance - that is, truly trance-inducing music - but I think like most of us here with good taste, "true trance music" generally goes by any number of other genre categorizations.
Old 14th January 2010
  #26
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I used to be into it from about 96 to 2000 ish. I used to love it and feel it was emotional music. The more commercial it got, the cheesier it got. It used to be mellow and bareric. I think the uninventive drum rolls and saws didn't help, and then the addition of crap vocals to tracks to sell more (Toca's Miracle etc.) didn't help. Trance just stopped making me feel anything, too much formulaic samey bs; the same reason I got sick of minimal. As something becomes more popular it is more open to music snob criticism but also over-saturation with everyone making formulaic crap and trying to cash in. I don't think the none stop onslaught of sell out anthems compilations by the likes of ministry is helping it's image. Melodic techno is what I like now, it's kind of has the emotive elements of trance but is much more subtle which makes more emotional impact on me for some reason. But as with almost everything...I get bored.
Old 14th January 2010
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock View Post
The McDonalds of dance music then?
you summed it up perfectly

when is was about 16, 17, 18 years old i use to meet more trance fans than i do these days. and because they were into electronic music i tried talking to them about other forms of electronic music but it was completely useless. they had no knowledge of anything underground. trance was the first electronic music they were exposed to and they were happy with that. they didn't want to dig any deeper.
Old 14th January 2010
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds View Post
ugly people in ugly clothing
the most cheesy and boring guitar sounds
horrible vocals
rhythmically boring
to many arpeggios
to many formulas, always the same drums
i've met some very elitist band members
I couldn't agree more, and don't get me started on ghetto music.
Old 14th January 2010
  #29
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For me, I really and honestly used to love trance music, but it changed somewhere along the way. It became too formulaic and too predictable. Whereas trance used to be defined as music you could lose yourself in, it became defined by conventions like the hypersaw, the uplifting anthem, the ambient break. To me, music like this is closer to what trance is about:


(Btw, the full version of this song is just plain spectacular, but you can't find it on YT anymore.)

Music you can just close your eyes and lose track of reality to. Even Sasha's 'Xpander' is one of the most beautiful and memorable songs I've ever heard. Nothing so predictable as modern 'trance' has matched it. It's really more just pop music with faster rhythms, ambient breaks, and supersaws these days. Evidence: This weekend I picked up this 'Trance Anthems' CD to see if there was anything new out there and if I'd miss something great in trance. The CD has some stuff by Iio, Tiesto, ATB... lots of recognizable names associated with trance. The first track on there ended up being a Hillary Duff remix. 'Nuff said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
I don't understand how it can be the most appreciated by individuals that vote for their favorite DJs worldwide and yest be most hated? Most hated by who? Obviously not the masses. If it were most hated then DJs with other music style would be top of that list.

Pendulum, Uberzone, Shy FX and a whole host of non trance and fundamentally different style are on that list, so people can vote for them too. This is where I come back to it can't possibly be most hated if it's consistently voted top of the ranks??
That's easy. Think about other genres of music like pop. You know lots of people that hate Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake and the like, right? And yet they consistently sell a lot of records. Charts and poll results are picked by the people who cared enough to vote, not by any sort of real majority.
Old 14th January 2010
  #30
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Yeah stopped listening to PVD years ago after about 2002 he just started to suck in my opinion. But you are right he is trance as trance gets. For an Angel, Were alive talk about cheese factor.

I grew up on the harder trance variety (hennes and cold, DJ Scott Project, andything on Overdose Recs) and for better or worse it's still in my blood.

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