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Why does trance get such a bad rap?
Old 9th February 2010
  #241
Almost everyone revives the half 90s as the top years of techno. To me that was an era where most labelled-genres were still not applied. Now it is all Minimal, Progressive, Dark and so on...

At those golden times it was all seminal, on the positive, creative side of electronica/techno/trance or whatever you may call it.

Some clever guy posted that Acidhouse is timeless, I absolutely agree, having those tracks all the tones and dynamics that are a must still today. But vinyl played acid banging tunes were so raw and immersed in some sort of spontaneity that we have lost today.
Old 9th February 2010
  #242
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blinky909's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by i604 View Post
But vinyl played acid banging tunes were so raw and immersed in some sort of spontaneity that we have lost today.
they didn't use software synths and plugins - they used hardware that had individual character. all that "slop" created a good groove and better sound.
Old 9th February 2010
  #243
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excusively because of Gearslutz, I relealized that people are still way into trance music (esp. psy) ... henceforth I stayed out of the opinionated music-making threads in this forum and just stuck to the good ol gear related threads.
Old 9th March 2010
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
Did someone say fist pumping?

YouTube - Illogik & DNA - Kick Your Legs In The Air

lol. I'm a grandpa I guess, and I like new stuff
YouTube - this is the sound of the underground - jackal

I was always a sucka for florida breaks, as the euro trancers whose tears aren't running into their cups of yerba mate, may not know, get a LOT of hate, especially from the types who were there for the early 90s tampa breaks. These 'grandmas' as well as 'grandpas' are all too happy to flip you their ghetto mix tape and spit on you as they polish their prelude in flip flops, fake nails, ripped cutoffs and tribal tats. haha! You don't know hate until you follow the florida break scene.

I'm in Orlando so I know all about the break scene. It was gigantic here in the 90s and of course we had Icey from here and then Rabbit In The Moon from Tampa. Lords of Acid was the greatest **** of all time, Orlando downtown was a dance mecca and if you weren't down with this city, you could head south to Tampa or Vice versa.

Nowdays we have one club that still drops modern breaks that are sick. Pretty much the whole set is breaks, but the clientel don't know a damn thing about it. It's a very superficial club scene here now, and not nearly as cool as it was. A lot of the clubs here now are more focused on being VIP bottle clubs a la Miami. So you are going to hear either top 40 remixes or really bad trance. I mean horrible trance. And nobody cares because they are at the club for bottles and blow. Which is all good..but the music is much more secondary now then it used to be. And that is just a fact. That is why trance works so well. No one really cares, so they just need an epic background track while they blast bathroom lines and slam grey goose.

Firestone was the hub of the Orlando breaks scene and they do try and have reunions and huge DJ's still come through. It's just not the same of course.

There is one little club where the DJ's drop the sickest house, and I go there when I need to hear new tracks and be inspired. The problem is there no real air conditioning in there, which can suck..but I may take my girl there since she appreciates the good ****.
Old 9th March 2010
  #245
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i personally dont think trance has any worse a rep than any music that is predominated by a stereotype, and you have to admit, a quite healthy dose of trance, in fact most of it period, is pretty jersey-shore fist-pumping cheesey. there are gems in every genre tho; psy and goa is damn cool music.

in drumnbass it's the same thing. i dont even like saying the word "drumnbass" when i describe what i like/spin, bekuz the very word provokes images of clownstep/whatever u wanna call it, the musical equivalent of geyser-vomiting while on nitrous. i think 25% of drumnbass is the Beautiful Music the same way soccer is called the Beautiful Game, but i'd rather listen to the lamest commercial pop or rap on the charts than listen to the other 75%.

it's no different in trance, it's a genre oversaturated with completely disposable stereotypical music made by people with the same cracked copy of Reason who seem far more interested in mimicking what came before them than making anything original or from the heart. i'll be the first to admit what i already said, it's got its gems, and some psy and goa occupy a very cherished section of my memory, and even some of the less cliche bigger stuff just for nostalgia's sake, remembering great parties i went to (i was a BuzzLife Nation kid, i'll put my good times up against anyone else's on earth any day), but yea, most of that genre completely sucks @$$, sorry if you disagree. maybe you like the cheese for whatever reasons you have but surely you cant deny you understand the reason for the bad rep
Old 9th March 2010
  #246
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cosmos's Avatar
 

It doesn't really matters.. 99.9% of psy people do not care about what other people think about them or their music...
Old 28th October 2011
  #247
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djshire's Avatar
 

To answer the question of "why trance sucks so much", we're going to look at dubstep....stay with me here.

Dubstep started out, like most genres/sub-genres, as experimenting with different sounds, different ways of composing a track, etc, and it became its own sub-genre of breakbeat style electronic music. This was about a decade or so ago. In the mid 2Ks, in Western Europe, mostly the UK, dubstep started taking off and having many producers making it (and only dubstep) like Skream. Dubstep started having its own nights and clubs. It was becoming "popular", in the sense that enough people knew about it outside of the the dubstep scene, but it wasn't being played on the radio, or being used in commercials.

Now, its hard to say who is to "blame" for its popularization, though most people would blame either Rusko or Skrillex, but when we think of dubstep these days, we think of brostep.....massive WUB WUB WUB WUB basslines (probably created in NI Massive), in some club filled with frat boys who have no idea who Skream or Bassnectar are, or who still believe that Timbaland created dubstep. This mass commercialization has caused a lot of people to make very bad produced dubstep tracks, has turned a generation of kids on to music that they think is "underground", but Jesus Christ in a side car with a lobster bib it is not.

Now, take everything I just typed, rewind back to the late 90s/early 2Ks, and think of Ian Van Dahls "Castles In The Sky".......its pretty much the same thing. Its a common....problem?.....of electronic music. Its starts as fiddling and experimentation, turns into something new, is underground, then someone comes along and exploits and makes it poppy and all the sudden the latest Audi commercial has Armin Van Buuren playing in the background. The best thing to do is to accept it for what it is and how it works, and either appreciate this new, more commercial sound, or find a new scene to dwell in.....a scene which may very well in a decade be filled with *********s with no musical appreciation and no idea of musical history, who only care about going to events with the music you used to love....just to get laid.

I can still appreciate trance for what it is, because despite the fact that it is quite far from what it started out as (with the exception of the psy trance scene), it still has a similar emotional effect on me as does the older trance. I hate the scene, as the majority of it is dominated by dj/producers who are basically on the way out of making trance and are making more pop music these days (see Armin Van Buurens last two production albums), but there are those around like Juventa who are new and make wonderful, uplifting tracks that make me feel good. And that's what matters.....finding the music that makes you feel good.
Old 28th October 2011
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock View Post
I think it was when they started using VAs it all went downhill
Late 90's trance: over use of the JP-8000 supersaw ad f'ing nauseum. A bunch of people bought them and started rehashing the same sounds and composition structure over and over.

Same thing is going on with dubstep and massive right now, except worse, the barrier to entry is a lot lower, almost non existent in fact. Anyone can get a bootleg copy of FL and the the Massive VST.

The 8000 is still one of the best VAs you can get, but some of those presets were waaaaaaaaaay over used in trance.

And the post above mine is pretty spot on, except I hate trance.
Old 28th October 2011
  #249
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Rogue Ai's Avatar
I'm working on a Goa/Psy track right now with 100% hardware except for the sequencer.
Old 28th October 2011
  #250
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RRCHON's Avatar
Once a type of music becomes a formula it tends to become stale for the people who thought they were breaking new ground with it.

A typical sound evolves and the people who propagated this sound find themselves trapped by the constraints that "style" now imposes.

What if you don't want a breakdown in the middle, what if you don't want dynamics and want to squash everything so that you see nothing but red.

Then you have to deal with the masses of 1 click pop production, Rebecca Black, Jonas Bors., Miley Cyrus, and Mrs. Gomez doing tracks with trance elements in them.

After a while you find your counter culture has become pop culture and it is time to move on.

Once can pin down a style as a style it is already at its zenith, once you can make it a formula and make trance in 4 easy steps it going down the drain and it stats to get for lack of a better term "played out." The ear gets tired of recognizing the same stuff coming at it and the wheel of sound turns.
Old 28th October 2011
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
Oh and for all the people that plan to respond simply "because trance sucks" or something of the like, please refrain because we all know how subjective musical taste is. I don't knock yours, please don't knock mine.
So here is my subjective opinion: Trance is very primitive most of the time, emotionally as well as musically. Often focused on one harmony. Very primitive melody structures, did I say primitive already? Cheesy describes it quite well. All kind of folk styles seem to be more complex (expect beer festivals in Bavaria). If people listen to "Schlager" today, the same kind of breed will listen to Trance in future when they get old. And GOA is even worse. All that cheesy melody crap around the base tone. It's like listening to the same tune again and again. And supersaw sounds like ... having said that i think using a synthesizer and having serious discussions about synths and then doing trance is kind of waste of resources.

No offense, of course :D :-)
Old 28th October 2011
  #252
Deleted 38a4a95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshire View Post
T...stay with me here.[...]
In the mid 2Ks, in Western Europe,[...]
I stopped reading there cause the mid 2ks are still years ahead in the future and it brings bad luck trying to learn about the future
Old 28th October 2011
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
I'm working on a Goa/Psy track right now with 100% hardware except for the sequencer.
I'm no expert on this genre but I hope you use akai samplers as well as synths
Old 29th October 2011
  #254
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Rogue Ai's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by squatski View Post
I'm no expert on this genre but I hope you use akai samplers as well as synths

Actually I'm not using any samplers. 100% synths and drum machines.
Old 29th October 2011
  #255
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Arp Music you mean?
Old 29th October 2011
  #256
I used to listen to and produce trance in the 90's and early 00's and just grew tired of it. Funny thing is, I find myself getting back to it now. It's like visiting a childhood neighbourhood. I'm not sure I'm gonna stick there for good, but it's certainly fun again. Maybe enough time has passed and stuff like dubstep is pushing into it's mainstream territory. 80s sounds became fashionable not that long ago and I'm guessing same thing will happen to 90s sound eventually, so stick to your gear and prepare yourself for the 90s trance revival.

I actually already remember hearing a track made of a 303 lead. There may be a generation of mainstream listeners who don't really know the acid sound at all and at the same time it's the sound 30-40 somethings remember from their "youth".
Old 29th October 2011
  #257
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pointsource's Avatar
 

One of the best trance tunes ever made (from the good old days):




I remember when I first listened to it back in 2002 - 2003! This is what made me fall in love with trance!

Trance forever!!
Old 29th October 2011
  #258
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When I was a kid The Beatles were breakthrough and cool and then became mainstream and then came The Monkees.... so this has been happening for a long time.

Popular electronic music since the 90's has always been extremely limited technically, from a music architecture point of view. All of it is, really, just a mild evolution of 70's disco, compared with, say, Morton Subotnick or Charles Dodge or Xenakis. It's all very non-innovative music, really. So getting exercised about this or that sub-genre is a tempest in a teapot.
Old 29th October 2011
  #259
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AcoosticZoo's Avatar
I heard that trance/EDM is suited to the Logical Mind, the structure and repetitive nature of Trance/EDM gives them aural pleasure. For Emotional minds, they're buzzed by gooey harmonies and interplay of counter melodies and familiar variation - so for emotional minds, having the 4x4 doof doof with little variation can be somewhat bland and repetitive.

I believe the inner works of how you are psychologically plays a big big part in how you enjoy music.

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
Old 29th October 2011
  #260
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laikenf's Avatar
 

I use to like trance, when stuff like this was coming out of course

Old 30th October 2011
  #261
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djshire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post

I believe the inner works of how you are psychologically plays a big big part in how you enjoy music.
Well yeah
Old 30th October 2011
  #262
Gear Guru
Being into dance music since 95 I just find trance "corny".

That said I must admit I did enjoy mixes I heard from the old NOOM label. Commander Tom etc..
Old 30th October 2011
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
So here is my subjective opinion: Trance is very primitive most of the time, emotionally as well as musically. Often focused on one harmony. Very primitive melody structures, did I say primitive already? Cheesy describes it quite well. All kind of folk styles seem to be more complex (expect beer festivals in Bavaria). If people listen to "Schlager" today, the same kind of breed will listen to Trance in future when they get old. And GOA is even worse. All that cheesy melody crap around the base tone. It's like listening to the same tune again and again. And supersaw sounds like ... having said that i think using a synthesizer and having serious discussions about synths and then doing trance is kind of waste of resources.

No offense, of course :D :-)
The fundamental in Trance is rhythm. It doesn't even strictly need melody and harmony and you can have an absolute cracker of a trance tune which has little more than a single repeated note like so:







They all have a constant hypnotic groove that doesn't stop. You'll have people calling it by different names like psy, progressive, minimal, whatever but its all fundamentally based on the same concept. It is very tribal in origin and bears strong resemblance to marching bands and the drum circles of political protests which are both the result of centuries of experiencing music as a shared social activity, for singing and dancing, for unifying/rallying/mobilizing many individuals as one collective and to improve morale both in war and peace time.

At its heart, Trance is just like a continuation of the drum circle for a new apolitical generation of consumers. Its when you think about the nature of consumption that you realize how transient and fickle consumers can be. There is a constant desire to experience anew and so people move on, share ideas and make something fleeting but a little bit different. You may even give it a new name and put it on a new label and market it anew.

Most people will have fond memories and experiences linked with the music they consumed in their youth and vitality and so they will always return to that as a point of reference. However, none of the styles or the names or the time it was made really matters. Its just the drum circle - the same as it always was and you can join in any place, any time.
Old 30th October 2011
  #264
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sftd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robobaby View Post
The fundamental in Trance is rhythm. It doesn't even strictly need melody and harmony and you can have an absolute cracker of a trance tune which has little more than a single repeated note like so:







They all have a constant hypnotic groove that doesn't stop. You'll have people calling it by different names like psy, progressive, minimal, whatever but its all fundamentally based on the same concept. It is very tribal in origin and bears strong resemblance to marching bands and the drum circles of political protests which are both the result of centuries of experiencing music as a shared social activity, for singing and dancing, for unifying/rallying/mobilizing many individuals as one collective and to improve morale both in war and peace time.

At its heart, Trance is just like a continuation of the drum circle for a new apolitical generation of consumers. Its when you think about the nature of consumption that you realize how transient and fickle consumers can be. There is a constant desire to experience anew and so people move on, share ideas and make something fleeting but a little bit different. You may even give it a new name and put it on a new label and market it anew.

Most people will have fond memories and experiences linked with the music they consumed in their youth and vitality and so they will always return to that as a point of reference. However, none of the styles or the names or the time it was made really matters. Its just the drum circle - the same as it always was and you can join in any place, any time.
Tremendous post!

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 30th October 2011
  #265
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I still enjoy listening to good Trance music.

The latest Armin Van Buuren album (Universal Religion Vol 5) has some great sounding tracks.

I also listen to Ambient, Chill, New Age, Classic Electronic music, and a few other electronic based music flavors.

There is a constant evolution of electronic music, be it Trance, Dance, or any other electronic based music. It's always refreshing to hear the next flavor, musicians can get pretty creative with synths these days, and the road is wide open for experimenting with new genres.

imho, Good Trance music is still alive and well, but there is still some of the so/so Trance all over the place.
Old 24th October 2014
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteJames View Post
Melodic techno is what I like now, it's kind of has the emotive elements of trance but is much more subtle which makes more emotional impact on me for some reason. But as with almost everything...I get bored.
Agree with this!
Old 24th October 2014
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
Here's a solid progressive trance tune (with some obvious psy influence)..... I personally don't hear any cheese there....

YouTube - Suntree - Lonesome Dream


IMO stunning production quality as well....


Psy influence?
This is 100 % Psy-prog!
No wonder you like this song, it's a thousand times better than genuine trance, albeit still very cheesy for psytrance standards.
Old 24th October 2014
  #268
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
old thread...strange revival..
Old 24th October 2014
  #269
i used to be really into trance and went to Gatecrasher a lot at its peak in the late nineties - i think it just got overexposed and went a bit too commercial when it started hitting the charts which switched ppl off from it
Old 18th April 2020
  #270
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deacon frost's Avatar
I have been reading this thread and it urged me to regather my password credentials for the chance to comment.

If you think for a moment that PVD ruined trance, then you are not only a FOOL, but never respected what trance was to begin with. PVD brought the best out of trance and was the and still is the greatest trance DJ to be living on this earth. To blame or to insult Paul is one thing I didn't think a real trance fan would ever do.

Trance has fallen from its grace, and Paul isnt what he used to be, but neither is the genre. The best mixes, solo albums and sets on record are mostly all from Paul Van Dyk. He is a legend and the godfather of the genre. His new tracks contain fluff and resemble poor renditions of trance-like pop music, but by god man you need to show some respect. You literally have no respect for the tremendous impact on not only trance but the EDM genre as a whole. Your verbal filth and nonsense is truly depressing.
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