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Why does trance get such a bad rap?
Old 14th January 2010
  #61
Gear Head
 

OK, tastes aside, plain fact is this is primarily music with a function: To heighten the experience of taking MDMA together with about a thousand other people in hangar-like locations. That's what it's for, that's why it's developed in the way it has.

And that's why a track that's objectively cheesy beyond compare still sends chills down my spine:

YouTube - *Burned With Desire* (Long Version Remix HQ ) Ft. Wicked Game Remake Video - By DjTiina1
Old 14th January 2010
  #62
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crufty's Avatar
this entire thread could be summed up by that video, and one would either get it--or not.
Old 14th January 2010
  #63
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

Yep. Sums it up for me.

Spiky Hair Dude wearing a Wife Beater.
Old 14th January 2010
  #64
Well, well the same age old question why does Trance suck eh.

PVD should talk, he's one of the main reasons its **** now days!!!!

Most of the reasons have been given, too formulaic, sound the same, done to death, major chord progression cheese.

Why can't I say trance is **** and has been since about 95 in my book? Cause lots of people listen to it means it must be good? That don't make sense. Lots of people like Britney Spears too.

I was mates with the local distributor for Flying Rhino & Platypus in the early 90's. It was all great stuff, it was all NEW!!!. I had most of the TIP releases from then too, and Eye-Q that was mentioned savage label. I even saw PVD the first time he came to my town in 94, he was pretty damn good. Bill Nasty was THE BEST though at the time, somebody mentioned him in the thread right on!

Times move on, PVD and Co. didn't, they milked it for all it was worth. So 100 MoS compilations of "Super Trance Hits of the Summer" later, there ain't much left of any worth.



.
Old 14th January 2010
  #65


There are other ways of accomplishing that function without sounding like cheese.


Old 14th January 2010
  #66
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Mark1353's Avatar
 

JP-8000 destroyed trance... Only partially kidding.

This is a nice track from back in the day. YouTube - Paragliders - Paraglide ( Humate Remix )
Old 14th January 2010
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
I'm going to Hijack my own thread now,

Where do you all think Electronic dance music is going in the future? What will it sound like in the year 3000 provided us stupid humans figure out how to live that long? haha
I have the answer, and the future is here:
Emo death metal trance


The break down at ~ 1:38 IS EPIC
Old 14th January 2010
  #68
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The Listener's Avatar
How come noone mentioned Shpongle? Intelligent trance... Simon Posford's projects in general are on the more tasty side of trance. Especially Shpongle, which is actually one of the rare trance acts I can actually enjoy listening to.

YouTube - Shpongle - Schmaltz Herring

YouTube - Shpongle - The Dorset Perception

YouTube - Shpongle - Outer Shpongolia
Old 14th January 2010
  #69
Mr Arkadin
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
I have the answer, and the future is here:
Emo death metal trance


The break down at ~ 1:38 IS EPIC
That is truly awful. Hurtful is definitely the right name for this track. i can't believe that they used Autotune on the non-shouty bits.
Old 14th January 2010
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fossaree View Post
generally speaking , I've seen that a major part of trance producers do have a background as musicians , even classical trained musicians .

I don't see it that much in other styles ...

worth mentioning !
Ha I remember that KNOB Jon the Dentist telling me he was 'classicaly trained'.....until I said oh yeah where? Which Grade? To which he muttered some crap about having a few piano lessons as a kid.

I used to write and release Trance in it's better years, man I even converted a couple to Hardcore .... just for the money mind. As a format Hardcore/Happy Hardcore is mindless novelty ice cream van music for chav's. But man does it sell by the bucket load.

Hey you got to make your money where you can?

I loved the old Trance that they always played at the free parties and raves, where different bpm's and styles of Trance mixed with each other. Got very bored when it became so commercial it was ....played in commercials lol. Music by numbers. It seemed it was all about the production and not the tune, who could have the best breakdown, longest snare roll intro etc etc...

It was a great genre until it sold it's soul, now it's the RnB of the dance world.

Good Melodic Trance is great to listen to and can be very intelligent and emotive. Bad Trance by numbers is so predictable as to be only fit for lift music.

Now I love my dancy type sounds in an 80's retro synth pop style like a modern Yazoo/Yazz ... well I'm working on it anyhow. Having a full time job means you don't have to rely on music for an income anymore so you can write what you like
Old 14th January 2010
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
Here's a solid progressive trance tune (with some obvious psy influence)..... I personally don't hear any cheese there....

YouTube - Suntree - Lonesome Dream


IMO stunning production quality as well....
Well, I think it's definetelly mostly the metter of personal opinion, taste or eternal questions like what is a difference between a well designed candy wrapper and a painting by Van Gogh... More to the point... the track above... I think it's one of preset pattern on Roland MC 303 or 505... The once you could not delete since they were burn into the memory... Very similar... Back in a the day most of the preset patterns on those things sounded like that... Probably still do... Why is it cheesy? I don't know... It sounds like a preset...
Old 14th January 2010
  #72
Oop
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
Good Melodic Trance is great to listen to and can be very intelligent and emotive.
Well said!

Isn't Trance a state of your mind

Get rid of all the cliched sounds and BRING BACK the MELODIES!

Good melodic trance can take you places, but then all the half-wit musicians came in to make easy 4/4 music

dfegad I hate DJ's ver.2010

Now let's all goto Planet Shpongolia!
Old 14th January 2010
  #73
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datune's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
I have the answer, and the future is here:
Emo death metal trance


The break down at ~ 1:38 IS EPIC
Oh my god, at first I thought this was just a prank video, but it turns out this is actually real? I find it really shocking that people would actually listen to this. I must be getting old...
Old 14th January 2010
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
I have the answer, and the future is here:
Emo death metal trance

The break down at ~ 1:38 IS EPIC
epic fail.

this might be the worst thing i've ever heard. if i could some how tar and feather this youtube video i would. maybe they'll tour w/brokencyde
Old 14th January 2010
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneheadxan View Post
dfegad I hate DJ's ver.2010

ha, without the dj no electronic club/rave music would have had a reason to exist... all of it was created by dj's, and a club/rave music producer has ZERO exposure of his music if it werent for dj's.

no dj, no money.

just a simple reminder that a jockey spreads music... they arent just unintelligible apes that press sync on Traktor, and theyre clearly not the reason most forms of music go down the drains...
Old 14th January 2010
  #76
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Entrainer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altitude909 View Post
I have the answer, and the future is here:
Emo death metal trance
Even Saturday Night Live would have a hard parodying that. Where else could you go?
Old 14th January 2010
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasprouch View Post
ha, without the dj no electronic club/rave music would have had a reason to exist... all of it was created by dj's, and a club/rave music producer has ZERO exposure of his music if it werent for dj's.

no dj, no money.

just a simple reminder that a jockey spreads music... they arent just unintelligible apes that press sync on Traktor, and theyre clearly not the reason most forms of music go down the drains...
it's the copycat producers and labels with no quality control that mess everything up. DJ's can only play the music that's available.
Old 14th January 2010
  #78
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
How come noone mentioned Shpongle? Intelligent trance... Simon Posford's projects in general are on the more tasty side of trance. Especially Shpongle, which is actually one of the rare trance acts I can actually enjoy listening to.
What about Ott, Shulman, Entheogenic, Bluetech, Nagual Sound Experiment, Infected Mushroom, Saafi Brothers, Younger Brother (yet more posford), Zero One, Mirror System, Tripswitch.....
Old 14th January 2010
  #79
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
What about Ott, Shulman, Entheogenic, Bluetech, Nagual Sound Experiment, Infected Mushroom, Saafi Brothers, Younger Brother (yet more posford), Zero One, Mirror System, Tripswitch.....


(to most of them at least, I am not much of a trance afficionado to know them all)
Old 14th January 2010
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds View Post
it's the copycat producers and labels with no quality control that mess everything up. DJ's can only play the music that's available.

voila
Old 14th January 2010
  #81
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:Metaphor:'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthere View Post
people diss Trance because it's the most popular dance music. It makes them seem cool.
Actually, this couldn't be further from incorrect.

The reason I bash trance when I do (which isn't always-- there's plenty of trance that I like) it's because of the same reason I bash any other form of music I don't like:

It's boring, uninspiring, predictable, and lacking in creativity.

More specifically, I find a lot of trance *rhythmically very boring* and lacking in creativity. One of the things I love about electronic music is the ability to deeply play with rhythm. I love creative new takes on groove, polyrhythm, shuffle, and funk, including shattering and turning it all inside out. It's one of the more common elements in all the artists whom I most enjoy. Sadly, this is incredibly rare in the trance world. I find that I'm not alone in this. Many people bash trance on the basis of it's predictability and shallow musicality. If it was more interesting, and didn't pander to the lowest common denominator in the listener, I'd be more interested.

This is all coming from someone who came into electronic music largely by listening to trance. Really, I wish it was better than it is. I certainly feel that it's gone downhill since the late '90's.
Old 14th January 2010
  #82
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I love how this thread has turned (typically), into a large male genitalia waving contest, about whos music sucks the most (of course targeting other members of this forum).

Its very difficult to start a thread like this without it turning into something that lowers the iq of the entire board a couple pegs, but it seems we have done it again. Their are some extremely harsh words on here, about music that other people love. It makes me laugh that some people on here, choose to belittle other peoples choices in music. I have always often wondered why these people do that. What do they hope to gain? Surely those that talk about elitism, are not elitist enough themselves to actually think they can convince other people, to like what their liking, because "its better". Surely thats not the case. So to those who come on here and spout off about things they know little about, I ask, what is the motivation? Are you in some musical gang and you feel the need to rep yo sh*t? Or am I missing something obvious?

It boils down to what one person likes, the other doesnt. Which is a totally valid argument. Its when people personalize it, and say that it sucks, and so and so is better, and more real or whatever bs their using to attempt to justify their actions, that lowers the iq on these sorts of things. I dont like drum and bass, but Im not going to say it sucks, because other people like it, so saying it sucks is nothing more than a superficial lie. It cant suck. Otherwise NO ONE would listen to it. Same with that emo video. Sure, its not my cup of tea, but theres an entire social movement that has blown up around that sort of music. So how can it suck? Perhaps the most elitist people are those that feel the need to rant and rave and make sure their voice gets heard, even if they have nothing to say.

alexP
Old 14th January 2010
  #83
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I probably have very little to contribute to the discussion but will give it a go.

Trance is more driven by melodic synthesizers than percussion, so it has a tendency to be derived from what is more like standard pop music with many catchy bits people can latch onto. Insofar as it is catchy piano-based standard song format music it is easy to digest and has mass appeal, just add catchy vocals. Also the percussion doesn't need to be all that interesting since the synths capture most of the attention so the music is relatively easy to formulate from a pop-music mindset. Throw in the ubiquitous mindless offbeat bassline and things get very generic very quickly. Indeed I think the generic offbeat bassline was killing psytrance last time I checked.

I liked the goa and early psytrance that concentrates more on experimental timbre tweaking and some ethnic melodies rather than obvious major chord progressions and long winded epic breakdowns. Some of the earlier oliver lieb spicelab stuff, people called that trance but it was probably more like a time when trance and techno were not really differentiated.

This really cheesy euro - trance stuff may have been inspired by the rave movement at some point, but is now far more suited for buying handbags at the mall.

I think some well crafted banging techno is far more trance inducing than most of what people call trance music these days. That being said ambient music is better at that as well.
Old 14th January 2010
  #84
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A more interesting question is:

Why does rap give such a bad trance?



Old 14th January 2010
  #85
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Jetty's Avatar
 

The first wave:

I was a head back in the mid 90s, I listened to and made what we called goa and psychedelic trance ("psy" wasn't really a word then). There were parties and drugs. Quite enjoyable, I have to say Key concepts were progress, mind expansion, differentiation, introversion.

A lot of people, myself included, turned away when "Dancing Galaxy" came around. See andrew's post

The second wave:

Some years later (typically early 2000s) I was surprised to see that parties, the way we had them years before, were still going on (or coming back). Now, I don't mean to come out demeaning, but I was surprised to see that the crowd was now your average plumber, discount store desk lady and the people I grew up with in **** Creek (including those who had two kids when they were 18). Key concepts were drugs, sex, showing off wear: recreation.

The third wave:

Ongoing. Same crowd as the first (just 10 years+ older). Basically the same key concepts and music, so put "progress" out of it. Also drug infested. "Forrest trance".

Why we bash trance:

Completely failing to identify with the second and third wave crowd and the music they demand to enjoy themselves. A clash of interest with the second crowd and contempt for the third.
Old 14th January 2010
  #86
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Konketsu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetty View Post
The first wave:

I was a head back in the mid 90s, I listened to and made what we called goa and psychedelic trance ("psy" wasn't really a word then). There were parties and drugs. Quite enjoyable, I have to say Key concepts were progress, mind expansion, differentiation, introversion.

A lot of people, myself included, turned away when "Dancing Galaxy" came around. See andrew's post

The second wave:

Some years later (typically early 2000s) I was surprised to see that parties, the way we had them years before, were still going on (or coming back). Now, I don't mean to come out demeaning, but I was surprised to see that the crowd was now your average plumber, discount store desk lady and the people I grew up with in **** Creek (including those who had two kids when they were 18). Key concepts were drugs, sex, showing off wear: recreation.

The third wave:

Ongoing. Same crowd as the first (just 10 years+ older). Basically the same key concepts and music, so put "progress" out of it. Also drug infested. "Forrest trance".

Why we bash trance:

Completely failing to identify with the second and third wave crowd and the music they demand to enjoy themselves. A clash of interest with the second crowd and contempt for the third.
Slow clap for speaking the truth. Thank you.
Old 14th January 2010
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryophonik View Post
A more interesting question is:

Why does rap give such a bad trance?



LOL
Old 14th January 2010
  #88
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JBVries's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBVries View Post
Oh and for all the people that plan to respond simply "because trance sucks" or something of the like, please refrain because we all know how subjective musical taste is. I don't knock yours, please don't knock mine.
AleP - I tried to maturely handle that and I also am curious what.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehuman View Post
No. It's because it's an awful, cheesy form of music that all sounds the same.

There, I said it.
aims to accomplish.. I do however completely agree with exploring this prerogative...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cryophonik View Post
A more interesting question is:

Why does rap give such a bad trance?



Old 14th January 2010
  #89
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alexp's Avatar
Yeah, sad isnt it?


Most of these people will tell you things based on their own personal opinions, while at the same time forgetting what music is (or should be) for people in the first place. An escape. Not some trendy art that can be dissed as it splits out into various factions, but the general idea that all music, no matter what our personal tastes are, are all part of the same family. Except boy bands.



alexP
Old 14th January 2010
  #90
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mamonu's Avatar
 

the way i see it every genre and era has its little gems and the dogs.

for me i liked trance circa 92-96 when it meant something like
resistance d / oliver lieb / eye q etc....

but also iliked some of the stuff that came after like some minimal prog psy stuff (Tatsu Recs / Plastik Park Recs) that came during 2001-2002 and still hasnt been topped.

if you look around you will definatelly find something that you will like along with alot of crap.

Nowdays i dont like the 90% of all music i come in contact with...
however its all worth when i find the other 10% that also sometimes inspires me on my own stuff or makes my day better when listen to it on my headphones....
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