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Comments/critique on my live/jamming setup plan for house/techno
Old 1st September 2016
  #1
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Comments/critique on my live/jamming setup plan for house/techno

Premise: As much as I'd love to, due to the lack of space and money I can't really get a full OTB production setup with a large, quality mixer, some nice keyboards, proper outboard and stuff, so I plan on making most of the songs fully ITB for the next few years, until we move to a bigger apartment/house with a separate studio room for me. However, in the near future I might have the funds for a small, fun, somewhat portable live/jamming setup. I love playing live but a computer is completely out of question for that, I also love doing and recording hardware jams.

So here's what I've envisioned so far. Feel free to comment or critique anything and everything, suggest alternatices and whatnot.


Elektron Analog Rytm: Expensive but IMO worth it, especially with the latest update. Great sequencer that can get into the details, the sample uploading makes it quite versatile, good analog sounds, some very useable effects.


Avalon Bassline: For doing some acid bits (I know from experience that a bit of acid can really elevate a techno/house gig nicely), but also for non-resonant actual basslines, for which it seems to be a better option than other 303 clones, due to the bonus stuff like the sub oscillator. Again, quite expensive but worth it for me perhaps, as it would form the foundation of my setup with the AR.


Roland Boutique JU-06: A real Juno would be great of course but these are cheap, tiny and sound great IMO. For all kinds of polysynth duties.

Korg Electribe Sampler: Not sure about this one, but at least on paper it seems to fit the bill. I need a sample player (not necessarily even a sampler) with some ok filters and FX, which I've heard it has. It can MIDI sequence polyphonically the JU-06. It's cheap and small too. Has dedicated knobs for filters and FX, which would come handy in a live set. I don't plan on using a huge amount of samples, mostly some sampled chords, maybe some vocal bits and random sounds. Feel free to shoot some alternatives!

Strymon El Capistan: It would mostly be a sweet sounding delay for the JU-06, but again, feel free to shoot some alternative great and knobby delay pedals!

Moogerfooger MF-101 x 2 These are kinda optional I suppose, but since my ITB stuff uses lots of filtering for samples, I figured I'd use 2 Moogerfoogers with the Electribe Sampler (which would typically use 2 samples per track panned left and right, one for each Fooger). I've owned one before and I know they sound great, warm up cold digital devices nicely, the envelope follower is a must and so on. But I'm a bit out of touch with analog filter units, feel free to share alternatives!

Korg Volca FM: I love a bit of FM, these are really cheap and tiny, sound great too. Would be used for all kinds of FM sounds and for basslines in tracks where the Avalon isn't the best option.

Allen & Heath Zed-10: I need a mixer of course, these are smallish, have the right amount of channels, don't break the bank and sound ok for the price.


I thought about adding a decent compressor to the master bus to make things sound a bit more pro and glue the sounds a bit, but that's completely optional and would be the last thing to buy, if I ever even buy it. I was mainly thinking about the Drawmer 1978, anyone ever used one?


Questions, comments, suggestions are welcome!
Old 1st September 2016
  #2
Gear Nut
 
Have you considered the new A&H ZEDi 10 instead? They seem to be basically the same mixers for a similar price but with 24/96 USB audio interface (no parametric EQ, though). I used to have the original ZED 10 - a good mixer with enough features for a live jam and recording. Will likely get the updated one this time.
Old 1st September 2016
  #3
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
You need 7 more 303s and also a 707

Next patient!
Old 1st September 2016
  #4
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The soundcraft signature mixers are pretty decent imho specially for price.

You could also run your mix out the group and back into the limiters until u get a comp. one less piece of gear to bring too
Old 1st September 2016
  #5
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Paega's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
My only thought is nothing in the setup lets you do any "deep" sound design, but you could do that on the computer and transfer samples onto the Electribe. Otherwise for jamming seems good. I dont think youll want less options than the Electribe goves you even for simple things like you mention.

I knw its gearslutz blah, blah and while those pedals all sound good, they are expensive. The insert delays on the Electribe are decent/clean. Ive found the best jam setups have less going on, not more. Id have a hard time keeping track of all the stuff youve listed.
Old 1st September 2016
  #6
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you better get a good paying job first before you even dream of getting all that gear you have mentioned.
Old 1st September 2016
  #7
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login's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I would wait to see what Roland and elektron release next.

But I would start with an analog keys and the rytm. Provably add a Poly with 6 or more voices.

Last edited by login; 2nd September 2016 at 02:50 AM..
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paega View Post
My only thought is nothing in the setup lets you do any "deep" sound design, but you could do that on the computer and transfer samples onto the Electribe. Otherwise for jamming seems good. I dont think youll want less options than the Electribe goves you even for simple things like you mention.

I knw its gearslutz blah, blah and while those pedals all sound good, they are expensive. The insert delays on the Electribe are decent/clean. Ive found the best jam setups have less going on, not more. Id have a hard time keeping track of all the stuff youve listed.
I agree, personally I do better with a limited setup. For your needs I would recommend one really good synth that has the sound you find most appealing and the electribe sampler. You can feed the audio of the synth into the E2S and add MFX & IFX to your hearts content. This way you can eliminate the need for external effects devides. It's actually a really efficient way of getting a good variety of sounds with very little $$$ and space. You don't even need the mixer at this point, you can feed the output straight into your AI for recording. If down the road you need to expand your palette of sounds, you can build as you see fit.
Old 2nd September 2016
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Valvalval's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I think its good. I dont understand very much the two mf-101s but .. Ok i guess. If you like the sound there's nothing we can do about that. There's the electrixfilter queen but it doesn't sound the same of course.

The rytm is an awesome piece of kit
Personally I like to design my sounds a little more so I got an OT too. And a 0-coast for synth bits. Now I need FXs and a mic.

As for the poly I'm more into the minilogue due to its coldness, conpairing to the ju06 warm sound but these are personal choices.

The mixer you choose is quite good, because yes that's as important as the drum machine I think. That would be the first thing to upgrade as soon as you have the space and money.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #10
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paega View Post
My only thought is nothing in the setup lets you do any "deep" sound design, but you could do that on the computer and transfer samples onto the Electribe.
That was the plan. Make some of the sounds on the puter, transfer them to the Electribe and/or the AR.

Deep sound design is often (though not necessarily of course) kinda the opposite of simple, fun jamming. You can get around that by doing those more complex sounds with computer, then just play them back with the AR/Electribe.



Quote:
I knw its gearslutz blah, blah and while those pedals all sound good, they are expensive. The insert delays on the Electribe are decent/clean.
Yeh, the Moogerfoogers are optional like I said. I've owned one and it's a really great filter though, made my former Monomachine sound much more interesting and alive. I assume it would do the same to the Electribe.

When I make stuff ITB I often have 2 layers of filtering, one filter from the sampler/synth, then another, a bit more analog-like filter with an envelope follower after it. Creates more interesting, varied tones than just 1 filter can do. I'd like to replicate that OTB.


Quote:
Ive found the best jam setups have less going on, not more. Id have a hard time keeping track of all the stuff youve listed.
I've played live with many setups, I think this setup is manageable by just one person (and nothing's forcing me to use all of that all the time of course). It also has enough variety to keep things interesting for both the performer and the listener, which is important.


In a way, for example, the live set I have on my Mixcloud account was more difficult to manage, even though it had less units. It was Octatrack, Analog Four, Ambika, Big Sky. Octatrack is a bit cumbersome in a loud, dark club after a few free artist beers. Still, the set worked pretty well.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #11
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
I would wait to see what Roland and elektron release next.
Well, I won't buy all of that today or tomorrow and I'm open to suggestions. While it's unlikely Elektron would release something that would knock the AR of it's throne, it's always possible Roland will release some kind of a hardware sampler with MIDI sequencing capabilities. Like I said, the Electribe's position in my planned setup is the shakiest. I know it's not the best thing ever, but it might be good enough and it's cheap.

Quote:
But I would start with an analog keys and the rytm. Provably add a Poly with 6 or more voices.
The problem with Analog Keys is the size, even though it's quite small for a keyboard. I have no space for keyboards atm. Well technically speaking I could own one keyboard, but then I wouldn't have much space left. I'd rather have small tabletop units.

I've also owned an Analog Four for a few years and while I still love it, I'd prefer a fresh perspective and fresh sounds (well fresh for me anyway).
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #12
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
you better get a good paying job first before you even dream of getting all that gear you have mentioned.
I get your point, but it's not THAT expensive a setup, at least not on a Gearslut scale. 4500€ or something like that, 700€ less if I remove the Moogerfoogers. Still a large sum of money of course, but compared to a full studio setup it's not that much. Something like an OB-6 is almost 3000€ alone, a good large mixer costs a lot, quality outboard costs a lot etc.

And I of course won't buy all that at once, neither will I buy it today. If I did my calculations correctly (and sans some new financial catastrophe), I might be able to have all that by next summer.
Old 2nd September 2016
  #13
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🎧 5 years
About the analog four I'd add that apparently it don't pair that well with the rytm. Muddy sound in the end. Elektronauts said that. So indeed change

What's the filter with env follower in your itb setup ?

Can I have a link to that OT based live ?
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #14
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valvalval View Post
What's the filter with env follower in your itb setup ?
I use a free VST called TAL Filter for that. I think it's modelled after the Moogerfoogers. Doesn't sound as nice though, but it works pretty well and it's a very useful tool.

Quote:

Can I have a link to that OT based live ?
Sure. I kinda made a mistake during the soundcheck as I started to mess with the kick settings. It sounded good in the club though, but doesn't really work at home, it sounds quite weak. It is what it is.

https://www.mixcloud.com/Barfunkel/b...l-live-ktk-vi/
Old 2nd September 2016
  #15
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🎧 5 years
Volca Sample
Volca Bass
Ju06
Minilogue
XR18
iPad
Beer
Old 2nd September 2016
  #16
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Scratcher's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
You'll get a lot of mileage out from synths & sequencers on iOS. The Rytm is great, but so is an MPC at a lower cost.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
I use a free VST called TAL Filter for that. I think it's modelled after the Moogerfoogers. Doesn't sound as nice though, but it works pretty well and it's a very useful tool.
I think that TAL Filter is older than moogerfoogers. Two soft filters to try out: Xfer LFOTool, It's LFO but also normal filter and it has all filters from Serum (actually Serum filters are from LFOTool). It's also cheap. Other one is The Drop by Cytomic. It's as analog as software goes. A bit too much features for my taste as i prefer simple UI's.

I would suggest to check Waldorf Rocket. Those go for 100€ in Mnet. It has killer multimode analog filter with external input. As a synth it's really good too. Very juicy driven bandpass acid sounds and the chord function sounds surprising good and and retro in good way.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #18
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratcher View Post
You'll get a lot of mileage out from synths & sequencers on iOS.

I dunno, why would I buy an ipad when I have a computer already? I've never owned a tablet, I don't understand the attraction, except they seem to be cheaper than computers. I've tried them a few times and even basic stuff like typing seems very slow and cumbersome on them. A mouse is much more accurate than a big finger too, you can precisely set virtual knob and slider values.

It's possible I'm just missing something crucial though.

Quote:

The Rytm is great, but so is an MPC at a lower cost.
MPC's are one option (and I actually have an MPC2000 in my possession, though I don't own it). It's a very different kind of machine though. No synthesis inside the machine, horribel filters no effects, no real-time control of filters or anything due to lack of knobs, the sequencer is very different than the marvellous Elektron sequencer etc etc. It's fun for finger banging rhythms in, but editing sequences is so difficult that I never even do it, I just play stuff over and over again until I like it, so making even simple sequences takes a lot of time compared to an Elektron as I'm not a real musician who can nail down beautiful rhythms in one take.

I know it's not the only MPC model out there and the JJOS makes them closer to Elektrons or other X0x-style sequencers. The newer models tend to be pretty expensive though, for example there's an MPC1000 for sale locally atm and it's 600€ and doesn't even include the JJOS. Of course that's a lot less than an AR, but the AR is a much more capable machine than the MPC1000 IMO.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #19
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
It's possible I'm just missing something crucial though.
If you have never tried iPad as instrument/controller then you really need to!

You might still not like it, but you don't know if you don't try. For some people it's the secret sauce they were missing. I'm still a happy iPad 1 user as it runs quite a lot of synths and all controller and sequencer apps.

Just don't install any SM apps and keep it only for music (and some gaming ;)

Ipad vs mouse: With mouse you can only adjust one parameter at the time. And most new controller apps are super good in fine tuning. In LPX app you can set how detailed movements you take by sliding finger left or right. More accurate than mouse. That said i rarely use iPad as controller. Only when i'm mixing lot of tracks or when just having a jam session. And in live setup i have been using it for 6 years now.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #20
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosacosta View Post
Volca Sample
Volca Bass
Ju06
Minilogue
XR18
iPad
Beer
Unless you buy lots of beer, that'd be cheaper than my plans (though still something like 2500€), but it's also in many ways quite inferior (AR > Volca Sample, Avalon > Volca Bass, etc) and like I said, I'd like to keep it OTB so ipads are a definite no no.

Thanks for the suggestions though!
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #21
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito View Post
If you have never tried iPad as instrument/controller then you really need to!

You might still not like it, but you don't know if you don't try. For some people it's the secret sauce they were missing. I'm still a happy iPad 1 user as it runs quite a lot of synths and all controller and sequencer apps.

Just don't install any SM apps and keep it only for music (and some gaming

Ipad vs mouse: With mouse you can only adjust one parameter at the time. And most new controller apps are super good in fine tuning. In LPX app you can set how detailed movements you take by sliding finger left or right. More accurate than mouse. That said i rarely use iPad as controller. Only when i'm mixing lot of tracks or when just having a jam session. And in live setup i have been using it for 6 years now.
Could be, I've never tried an ipad for music. I hate touchscreens for typing (which probably shows my age a bit) though.

The point is though, if I go the ipad route, why wouldn't I simply go all the way and use a DAW and a computer? Ie. Which is what I do now, but I wanna go back to hardware jamming.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
The point is though, if I go the ipad route, why wouldn't I simply go all the way and use a DAW and a computer? Ie. Which is what I do now, but I wanna go back to hardware jamming.
As iPad loaded with say Modstep sequencer is more like Cirklon than computer. Forget typing. It's all about pushing virtual buttons. For jamming it's perfect.

There is many ways to use it. Some use Modstep to control hardware setup and other might only use Samplr as instrument. If you find cheap iPad 1 it's worth to use it only as Animoog synth as part of OTB setup if nothing else. Moog apps are pretty damn good!
Old 2nd September 2016
  #23
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🎧 5 years
I would go for an Access Virus TI2 desktop, Korg Kaoss Pad 3 x 2, and an MPC 1000 for a small and great, compact setup.

Edit: if money is tight, replace the Virus with an ipad, and drop one of the Kaoss Pads
Old 2nd September 2016
  #24
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valvalval View Post
About the analog four I'd add that apparently it don't pair that well with the rytm. Muddy sound in the end. Elektronauts said that. So indeed change
What madness is this? The A4 + Rytm is a killer combo, IMO!
Old 2nd September 2016
  #25
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I agree with above. You'd get more mileage from the Timeline. El Cap is a beautiful delay, but a one trick pony whereas the Timeline offers a lot of different delay sound possibilities.

Regarding the MPC - that price is really high I believe. I'd look at it and try to talk them down. Most MPC 1000's go for around $400 to $500 here, and that's upgraded and with some form of JJOS. If you do wind up looking for an MPC, make sure you check the version number of JJOS. There's a free version lots of people like to claim JJOS installed, but it will do nothing to get you the paid version with the main functionality. Also, check the pads on 1000's. If they're upgraded, then top of the line prices are more warranted. Two possible options for talking the seller down. You could always do the ebay thing as well. And forget about the effects. There are some in the 1000, but they're really not worthy of using IMO.

I wouldn't go with two Moogerfoogers - just one. If you want another filter pedal, I'd look elsewhwere. I love the Moog sound, largely due to the filter, but I wouldn't want too much of my stuff sounding like Moog.
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #26
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotDedyet View Post
I wouldn't go with two Moogerfoogers - just one. If you want another filter pedal, I'd look elsewhwere.
Not a bad idea.

I was gonna ask for suggestions, then I remembered I've been drooling over the Vermona Retroverb Lancet for a long time! Or the Filter Lancet, if If feel I don't need the spring reverb.

Other than the Moog and the Vermona, anything interesting out there? Sherman is too large and expensive, dunno about the Jomox Moonwind (probably should check demos though), neither do I know what the KOMA filter sounds like.

A quick browse at Schneidersladen also tells me that there are units called Erica Acidbox and WMD Protostar, which both seem interesting but never even heard of those until now. I suppose I gotta listen to some demos!
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Valvalval's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eighthours View Post
What madness is this? The A4 + Rytm is a killer combo, IMO!
I don't have an A4 personally, but I can see why some people could say this. You obviously want to pair different synths, not similar synths. But hm yeah technically this is a killer combo, you could do a lot of tunes only with these two.

IMO, internal mixing is the weak point of elektron machines.

If you plug all individual outs into a mixer to properly mix your rytm and A4 that would fit. (except that the A4 doesn't have indv. outs ...)


One last thing about FX pedals. These play an important role in your "sound". So choose the one you like. Who care if it's a El Capistan that can only do tape delay. Who cares if it's a particular reverb that do that reverb sound and that's all.
I say this bc as powerful the Timeline may be, I don't like it very much.

from waldorf, there's also the 2 pole
Old 2nd September 2016 | Show parent
  #28
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
Other than the Moog and the Vermona, anything interesting out there?
Like i said previously, Waldorf Rocket is hard to beat at 100€. I can borrow mine if u want to try. Never tried but 2 Pole is probably pretty good too.
Old 2nd September 2016
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I would like to say Octatrack.

Allows for so much flexibility in getting sounds out of the box and with you, on a gig or wherever.
Old 2nd September 2016
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Any reason to not simply play samples out of the Analog Rytm?

Worth considering the Korg Volca Bass ($100 usd) over the Analog Bassline?

Re: the Analog Rytm:
I just got mine recently and still haven't had a chance to go town programming yet, but it's covering a lot more basses than I initially imagined. I thought I would use it mostly for analog drums, but I am hoping to use it as a (intentionally limited) groovebox by sampling stabs / sounds from my other synths and making nearly complete tracks on just the Rytm and then finishing in the DAW
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